Dale--curious as to impressions

[GShock]

For those of us unable to make it to chat, could you share some of your impressions from the weekend?

[Dale]

For those of us unable to make it to chat, could you share some of your impressions from the weekend?

A few things I that were interesting...

- Parcells is said to have had no interest in "fricking with anyone represented by Poston." Steven Jackson, indeed, is represented by Poston. This was from a highly respected writer in the Dallas area.

-The Cowboys would never have considered trading a 2nd for Anthony Thomas. Some interest might have been there, but only for a 4th.

-Parcells was talking to Kevin Jones' agent at one point. My guess is we preferred him over Steven Jackson. Not sure what happened in the conversation and how that may have influenced things.

I'll try to post some more impressions later on, but those were some of the interesting things off the top of my head.

[trickblue]

A few things I that were interesting...

- Parcells is said to have had no interest in "fricking with anyone represented by Poston." Steven Jackson, indeed, is represented by Poston. This was from a highly respected writer in the Dallas area.

-The Cowboys would never have considered trading a 2nd for Anthony Thomas. Some interest might have been there, but only for a 4th.

-Parcells was talking to Kevin Jones' agent at one point. My guess is we preferred him over Steven Jackson. Not sure what happened in the conversation and how that may have influenced things.

I'll try to post some more impressions later on, but those were some of the interesting things off the top of my head.

Great thoughts Dale... it was great having an "insider" on draft day...

I think BP liked Jackson alot... I was dissappointed when he inked with the Postons... sometimes I wonder what these kids are thinking...

I know they liked K. Jones as well... and we could have had either... I know some felt they got "too cute"... but we got a nice trade offering from the Bills... I wanted Jackson... but am on board with this trade...

J. Jones was a nice pick for us I think... people should give him a shot.... He had a great senior season on a sub-par team...

OK... now the question... if a sup-draft occurs... do you think Dallas would spend one of our 1's for Williams?

Enquiring minds want to know...

[Mash]

Hi Dale....and thanks for all your info...

I was a little disappointed....especially on the 2nd day

We couldn't refuse a 1st round pick......and then we tried to move up but I think the asking price was to steep.

The game is won in the trenches and IMHO...we got two starting OL.....Jones was a good pick....I really don't know much about him.....so lets wait and see what he has to offer.

Next years draft will be huge for us.....we all got to remember that we are still rebuilding.....last years record was so misleading....we didn't play well against the contenders. Bill is just setting up our foundation....Henson future hopefully looks bright and we now have some young OL and maybe a franchise back.

All in all....the first day was good.....really good if Buffalo stinks up the joint this comming year.

I still trust Bill and Jerry......

[LaTunaNostra]

A few things I that were interesting...

- Parcells is said to have had no interest in "fricking with anyone represented by Poston." Steven Jackson, indeed, is represented by Poston. This was from a highly respected writer in the Dallas area.
later on, but those were some of the interesting things off the top of my head.

Parcells said THAT?

As the Jets GM he was the soul of discretion. It was widely known he abhored Key's agent Jerome Stanley, but just try to draw a quote out of Mr Stone Wall Parcells on the matter. He never, but never let his cats out of the bag re his feelings toward agents.

Now that he is just a Head Coach, and doesn't have to negotiate with agents at all, doesn't have to give them the time of day, he is mouthing off? I doubt it. It simply is NOT Tuna-like to flame fires with agents.

And if he did make such a public or privately overheard statement, JJ and Steven should tell him to butt out. It's not a good sign when HCs overstep their bounds,even if it is Bill Parcells.

Sounds more to me like spin by the Jackson camp. Tuna didn't like the Postons so poor Stevie got passed by. Right.

So what's Kevin Jones excuse?

[Badattitude]

Dale is my favorite read on this board....

[TheHustler]

everything i have read says the boys had KJ over SJ, and they had the top few backs in the same group in terms of talent.

[AdamJT13]

- Parcells is said to have had no interest in "fricking with anyone represented by Poston." Steven Jackson, indeed, is represented by Poston. This was from a highly respected writer in the Dallas area.

The funniest part of Parcell's press conference Saturday was his comments on Jackson. He didn't mention him by name, but that's who he was talking about when he was saying how the media can distort things. In particular, he said one player's agent called him and wanted him to talk to the player. So Bill got on the phone and said some complimentary things about the player -- as any decent coach/GM would do. That's it. But then it was reported in the media that Parcells personally called Jackson and "knew everything about him," etc., which Parcells said wasn't the case.

Hearing Parcells' comments made me think that Jackson was never the Cowboys' main target, and Dale's note reinforces that (if true).

[RatisBeast]

The funniest part of Parcell's press conference Saturday was his comments on Jackson. He didn't mention him by name, but that's who he was talking about when he was saying how the media can distort things. In particular, he said one player's agent called him and wanted him to talk to the player. So Bill got on the phone and said some complimentary things about the player -- as any decent coach/GM would do. That's it. But then it was reported in the media that Parcells personally called Jackson and "knew everything about him," etc., which Parcells said wasn't the case.

Hearing Parcells' comments made me think that Jackson was never the Cowboys' main target, and Dale's note reinforces that (if true).
I'm starting to think that too, i've read that even if we wouldn't have traded down we still would have might not got a running back. Either way... I'm all for the trade (love it), it stung for the first 5 or 10 minutes, but i'm loving it. Hope JJ pans out.

[dbair1967]

A few things I that were interesting...

- Parcells is said to have had no interest in "fricking with anyone represented by Poston." Steven Jackson, indeed, is represented by Poston. This was from a highly respected writer in the Dallas area.

-The Cowboys would never have considered trading a 2nd for Anthony Thomas. Some interest might have been there, but only for a 4th.

-Parcells was talking to Kevin Jones' agent at one point. My guess is we preferred him over Steven Jackson. Not sure what happened in the conversation and how that may have influenced things.

I'll try to post some more impressions later on, but those were some of the interesting things off the top of my head.

I'm pretty sure the Poston's reprsent Orlando Pace...Bill Parcells traded down from the #1 pick with the Jets that yr when everyone though he'd just love to have Pace and as it turned out Parcells was right, Pace held out forever...I think its obvious that the above statement about not " with anyone represented by Post" is true...

David

[jumanji]

do hint that we had jones rated higher than jackson.

[Hollywood Henderson]

Thanks for keeping us posted Dale, also good stuff at cowboys.com

I heard on the radio that something still might happen with a trade of Allen to the Raiders? Anyone have any idea's on that?

[da_boyz_mk]

Thanks for keeping us posted Dale, also good stuff at cowboys.com

I heard on the radio that something still might happen with a trade of Allen to the Raiders? Anyone have any idea's on that?

from hearing jones' comments it looks like allen will still be a cowboy this year.

[LaTunaNostra]

The funniest part of Parcell's press conference Saturday was his comments on Jackson. He didn't mention him by name, but that's who he was talking about when he was saying how the media can distort things. In particular, he said one player's agent called him and wanted him to talk to the player. So Bill got on the phone and said some complimentary things about the player -- as any decent coach/GM would do. That's it. But then it was reported in the media that Parcells personally called Jackson and "knew everything about him," etc., which Parcells said wasn't the case.

Hearing Parcells' comments made me think that Jackson was never the Cowboys' main target, and Dale's note reinforces that (if true).

I can just imagine what GM, owners, and coaches say about the Poston brothers behind closed doors. You'd guess the language of the proverbial drunken sailor would apply. Has there ever been a more loathed agent? I can't recall one. Drew Rosenhaus has come in for his share of media and fan criticism, but nothing like the confrontational Postons. They are straight out of 1950s Teamster negotiation tactics, except for the cement overshoes.

But the fact is, agents are part of the system, and it's a system that both works and reinforces itself. In all the many, many acrimonious holdouts, all the highly publicized bad blood cases, I have never heard one GM, owner, or HC publically diss an agent. There may be cases in which they did, I don't know, but by doing so the team representative opens up too many bags - and the lawsuit bag is the most serious of them. Were players being blackballed (and that is what it comes down to) because of who they chose as an agent, well, all hell would come down on front offices. The system itself needs that good faith, and the perception of it, between FOs and agents. Even the scummy ones.

It was speculated by the press this weekend that perhaps the Skinz felt more comfortable with Taylor than Winslow because of who represents Keven. And I would guess that WAS at least a minor consideration of Washington's. Who does want to sit down with these two malcontents? But it'd be a cold day in hell before you'd see a Joe Gibbs comment, or even a Daniel Snyder comment. inferring they went with Taylor over Winslow because of who the representation is. The repercussions are just too complex, and harmful to a FO.

I don't doubt Dale's report that such a rumour is floating that Tuna made some such remark about the Postons (and I would attribute it to sour grapes from the Jackson camp). But if Parcells did actually say it, that famous Dallas media person won't be writing it in his/her column. It would be irresponsible to do so, whether it was an over heard, off hand remark by Bill, or a face-to-face one. And I should hope Tuna himelf is not getting so old he thinks he can say anything sans consequences. No team can afford the perception that it blackballs player because they exercise their right to choose their representatives, even if it is the outrageously combative Postons.

[LaTunaNostra]

I'm pretty sure the Poston's reprsent Orlando Pace...Bill Parcells traded down from the #1 pick with the Jets that yr when everyone though he'd just love to have Pace and as it turned out Parcells was right, Pace held out forever...I think its obvious that the above statement about not " with anyone represented by Post" is true...

David

Bill did trade down when he had the chance to snare Pace. And ended up with the immortal James Farrior, among others.

I don't know if the Postons were Pace's original agents (tho I have read they won't be his current ones for long). The reason Tuna gave at the time for trading down (1997), his first year at the helm of a 1-15 team, was the Jets needed far more than Pace to become competitive. It was the "typical" decision in such a scenario, (to trade down) and nothing was ever written, to my knowledge, that Pace's representation was even a minor factor.

We can look back now and say "oh yeah!", that's why Pace was not drafted in NY", (and i'm not even sure the Postons WERE Orlando's first agents - Milloy and Law, for example, who were drafted under Bill, only brought the Postons in in the spring of 2003) .

But the implications are that Parcells has what? systematically blackballed good players for years because of who represents them? That is simply NOT true.

[Hostile]

Ty Law is represented by the Postons. If Parcells truly feels this way then he won't come here after June 1.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Parcells said THAT?

As the Jets GM he was the soul of discretion. It was widely known he abhored Key's agent Jerome Stanley, but just try to draw a quote out of Mr Stone Wall Parcells on the matter. He never, but never let his cats out of the bag re his feelings toward agents.

Now that he is just a Head Coach, and doesn't have to negotiate with agents at all, doesn't have to give them the time of day, he is mouthing off? I doubt it. It simply is NOT Tuna-like to flame fires with agents.

And if he did make such a public or privately overheard statement, JJ and Steven should tell him to butt out. It's not a good sign when HCs overstep their bounds,even if it is Bill Parcells.

Sounds more to me like spin by the Jackson camp. Tuna didn't like the Postons so poor Stevie got passed by. Right.

So what's Kevin Jones excuse?


I may be wrong...but dale said that Tuna Quote in the chat room...well before we were ever on the clock....and if that is correct then it is in no way just spin by the Jackson camp.

Also the poston connection IMO was part of the reason that the skinz went taylor over winslow but it was also told on draft day that one reason that may have swayed the Skinz to take Taylor over Winslow....

When Winslow visited the skinz (pre-draft visits) Gibbs was to have a lunch and talk/interview with Winslow and when the went to get him at the Hotel Winslow could not be found and it took them around an Hour to find Winslow...now remember this was a scheduled visit with a team that could take you at the #5 overall pick in the draft and he was not there and had to be tracked down.

Another note of interest is a rumor going around that the Postons are trying to get higher money then the 6th pick for Winslow...even though Winslow has said that a slightly higher contract then last years number 6 got would be fine with him.

[LaTunaNostra]

Ty Law is represented by the Postons. If Parcells truly feels this way then he won't come here after June 1.
Geez, TH.

Bill Parcells is not a GM. He doesn't HAVE to talk to agents. At all. His feelings for the Postons will have no bearing on personnel decisions, imo.

Ty's not coming here, imo, because there are already two highly paid young stars in the secondary, and they will need to be re-signed in a few years. No room for more cap space to be tied up in the secondary, by an over 30, mega star.

By drafting three corners yesterday, it became fairly obvious what the plan is to replace Mario, and ensure decent nickle/dime coverage. Let the rookies battle it out with Mitchell, Hunter and Davison (who can PLAY..the Jets regretted releasing him in the final cuts last year).

My last attempt at damage control here ;) Now Bill has shafted Jackson in the present, Pace in the past, and Ty in the future. I expect to see Tuna's next biographer claim Parcells adamantly refused to ever sign any player represented by the Poston Brothers, ever! ;)

[Dale]

I can just imagine what GM, owners, and coaches say about the Poston brothers behind closed doors. You'd guess the language of the proverbial drunken sailor would apply. Has there ever been a more loathed agent? I can't recall one. Drew Rosenhaus has come in for his share of media and fan criticism, but nothing like the confrontational Postons. They are straight out of 1950s Teamster negotiation tactics, except for the cement overshoes.

But the fact is, agents are part of the system, and it's a system that both works and reinforces itself. In all the many, many acrimonious holdouts, all the highly publicized bad blood cases, I have never heard one GM, owner, or HC publically diss an agent. There may be cases in which they did, I don't know, but by doing so the team representative opens up too many bags - and the lawsuit bag is the most serious of them. Were players being blackballed (and that is what it comes down to) because of who they chose as an agent, well, all hell would come down on front offices. The system itself needs that good faith, and the perception of it, between FOs and agents. Even the scummy ones.

It was speculated by the press this weekend that perhaps the Skinz felt more comfortable with Taylor than Winslow because of who represents Keven. And I would guess that WAS at least a minor consideration of Washington's. Who does want to sit down with these two malcontents? But it'd be a cold day in hell before you'd see a Joe Gibbs comment, or even a Daniel Snyder comment. inferring they went with Taylor over Winslow because of who the representation is. The repercussions are just too complex, and harmful to a FO.

I don't doubt Dale's report that such a rumour is floating that Tuna made some such remark about the Postons (and I would attribute it to sour grapes from the Jackson camp). But if Parcells did actually say it, that famous Dallas media person won't be writing it in his/her column. It would be irresponsible to do so, whether it was an over heard, off hand remark by Bill, or a face-to-face one. And I should hope Tuna himelf is not getting so old he thinks he can say anything sans consequences. No team can afford the perception that it blackballs player because they exercise their right to choose their representatives, even if it is the outrageously combative Postons.

Yeah, the Poston comment was not made by Parcells directly to the writer. Prior to Saturday's press conference, none of the media had even seen Parcells in roughly three months. It was an off-hand comment told to this writer by "several" people within the organization (as it was told to me).

Given the "Get Kevin's agent on the phone" (which was directly heard from Parcells himself when he briefly came out of the war room toward our office) comment from Parcells at the beginning of the draft, coupled with the fact we were indeed going to take K. Jones over Jackson if we took either, and I think the Poston remark might have some merit to it. Poston is already presenting problems with Winslow and I'm sure Parcells didn't want him presenting some scenario where Jackson would hold out unless he was paid like past backs that were the top backs taken in their classes, or some such nonsense.

There were several articles in the Washington papers a couple weeks back when Winslow chose Poston as his agent, commenting how the Redskins didn't want to deal with anyone represented by Poston given their history with the Poston Bros. (seemingly every player they have drafted represented by those guys holds out). While the article didn't say that would outright prevent them from drafting him, it did say it would likely play a major role. Perhaps it didn't, but sure enough, Winslow isn't a 'Skin.

And then again when it comes to Jackson, the agent thing could have just been the icing on the cake. His meniscus injury suffered in the Las Vegas Bowl might have been all it took for us not to consider him.

While the context given to us about the Poston quote wasn't told to us in such a way, it's possible it's original meaning was that Parcells didn't want to deal with the Postons, but wouldn't intentionally not draft a player solely because of that.

As for the timing of the quotes, the comment about Kevin's agent was made around pick 2 or 3. The Poston comment was told to us around pick 15, but was something the writer had been told days, if not weeks, ago.

[chicago JK]

Geez, TH.

Bill Parcells is not a GM. He doesn't HAVE to talk to agents. At all. His feelings for the Postons will have no bearing on personnel decisions, imo.

Ty's not coming here, imo, because there are already two highly paid young stars in the secondary, and they will need to be re-signed in a few years. No room for more cap space to be tied up in the secondary, by an over 30, mega star.

By drafting three corners yesterday, it became fairly obvious what the plan is to replace Mario, and ensure decent nickle/dime coverage. Let the rookies battle it out with Mitchell, Hunter and Davison (who can PLAY..the Jets regretted releasing him in the final cuts last year).

My last attempt at damage control here ;) Now Bill has shafted Jackson in the present, Pace in the past, and Ty in the future. I expect to see Tuna's next biographer claim Parcells adamantly refused to ever sign any player represented by the Poston Brothers, ever! ;)
I agree the Law isn't coming here....this year.

Next year may be a different story. If Law isn't moved this year then he will almost certainly be released next year when his cap figure goes up even more. If we can't find a second corner, I wouldn't be surprised to see us go after Law next offseason.

[LaTunaNostra]

Yeah, the Poston comment was not made by Parcells directly to the writer. Prior to Saturday's press conference, none of the media had even seen Parcells in roughly three months. It was an off-hand comment told to this writer by "several" people within the organization (as it was told to me).

Given the "Get Kevin's agent on the phone" (which was directly heard from Parcells himself when he briefly came out of the war room toward our office) comment from Parcells at the beginning of the draft, coupled with the fact we were indeed going to take K. Jones over Jackson if we took either, and I think the Poston remark might have some merit to it. Poston is already presenting problems with Winslow and I'm sure Parcells didn't want him presenting some scenario where Jackson would hold out unless he was paid like past backs that were the top backs taken in their classes, or some such nonsense.

There were several articles in the Washington papers a couple weeks back when Winslow chose Poston as his agent, commenting how the Redskins didn't want to deal with anyone represented by Poston given their history with the Poston Bros. (seemingly every player they have drafted represented by those guys holds out). While the article didn't say that would outright prevent them from drafting him, it did say it would likely play a major role. Perhaps it didn't, but sure enough, Winslow isn't a 'Skin.

And then again when it comes to Jackson, the agent thing could have just been the icing on the cake. His meniscus injury suffered in the Las Vegas Bowl might have been all it took for us not to consider him.

While the context given to us about the Poston quote wasn't told to us in such a way, it's possible it's original meaning was that Parcells didn't want to deal with the Postons, but wouldn't intentionally not draft a player solely because of that.

As for the timing of the quotes, the comment about Kevin's agent was made around pick 2 or 3. The Poston comment was told to us around pick 15, but was something the writer had been told days, if not weeks, ago.

I have no doubt Parcells, like every other HC, GM, and owner in the league, dislikes the Poston's tactics. I also have no doubt rumour, hearsay, third party tellings, "off-hand" remarks that take on a life of their own, are all that will ever be known of what Parcells actually did say, if anything. No professional journalist is going to chance implying that Jackson is not a Cowboy because the head coach (not the owner/GM/his son who DO have to sit across the table from agents) has an issue with his agent(s). Not without a direct soundbyte from Bill, anyway.

Are the Postons a liabilty to their clients? I don't know. Rookies are still hiring them, very highly rated rookies, who seem to feel the Postons are well equipped to get them the best contract. At the same time, current clients are said to be enteratining shedding them. (Pace)

Do teams factor in representation when making draft picks? Quite probably, but I believe it is a very small factor in the final decision, considering all the variables. Even in the Winslow case, I doubt the decision to go with Taylor had the Postons as the critical factor. The Skins, with their cap issues, have to be even more cognizant of the possibility of getting strong armed. Winslow's representation had to have some impact, but I doubt it was overwhelming.

I doubt very much the Cowboys' decision to pass on Jackson had much to to with his agents. It might have been a minor consideration if they had planned on trying to acquire Jackson to begin with, which apparently they did not. If there was a direct Tuna quote, or even a second party quote, someone willing to state he/she actually heard Bill make such a statement, sure, but again, I don't think we'll see any professional journalist making such a claim w/o a tape to back it up.

So chalk it up to draft day rumour and draft weekend lore...a rumour that hopefully dies a quick death, as it is potentially harmful to both the head coach and the organization.