Panthers & steroids--why no discussion

[Kittymama]

Jason Whitlock on "Sports Reporters" had an excellent point, one I've been thinking for a while. We've had all the hysteria over TO, etc., but proven info. has come out that several Panthers players were taking steroids when they went to the Super Bowl. Now I realize it's been 3 years, but if memory serves, they beat us in that first playoff game. Ok, I know why the local media won't drop the TO discussion & talk about the steroids, but why nothing from the fans? It's entirely possible that the Boys may have beaten them otherwise--or for you lurking Iggles fans, your team may have beaten them (& never have needed/signed TO the following year to get you to the Super Bowl).

I'm absolutely no fan of Barry Bonds, but it mystifies me that everyone is screaming about him yet not a word about the Panthers. Yes, they've got the "scrappy" QB & the coach that people like, but why no outrage over the steroids?

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Simple, most people assume most NFL guys take them. Not like 375 guys grow on trees.

[aznhalf]

I hate how the media covers steroids abuse. They torch Bonds and baseball but when it comes to Lance Armstrong, or the NFL they barely say a word. I guess people just don't want to hear about their favorite things getting tarnished. Baseball on the other hand, is fine to sacrafice.

[Yeagermeister]

Because it happened to the Panthers. If it had happened to a high profile team like Dallas or Oakland it would be front page news.

[Woods]

I hate how the media covers steroids abuse. They torch Bonds and baseball but when it comes to Lance Armstrong, or the NFL they barely say a word. I guess people just don't want to hear about their favorite things getting tarnished. Baseball on the other hand, is fine to sacrafice.

I may be misinformed, but I thought that Lance Armstrong's tests came back negative after his wins at the Tour de France?

I know their was at least one court case this year which rendered an opinion of Armstrong being not guilty.

[ATurkishSeaOtter]

I forget which players on the panthers team were taking them?

[sago1]

Absolutely no evidence that Armstrong ever used steriods or anything else illegal. If the bicyclists could identify so many other cyclists from other parts of Europe who using steriods, they certainly should have discovered if Armstrong used anything. As far as I'm concerned, the whole claim he might be using was a French effort to eliminate him from the sport which they consider their own. The fact that an American holds the claim to most Tour de France wins, and wins consequently, really sticks in their crawl. You better believe if Armstrong moved to France to live full time and took a French wife and French citizenship the whole effort to discredit him was end.

[ThornWithin81]

Because it's all TO's fault. That devil.

[Erik_H]

Simple, most people assume most NFL guys take them. Not like 375 guys grow on trees.

That is exactly it.

[koolaid]

i wasnt supprised by the news
ive always figured most players in the nfl, heck, most professional athletes, use steroids. the payoff is too big to ignore

[dwmyers]

You could see it happening during the 1980s. In the 1960s and 1970s a 260 pound lineman was a large guy. Then came the 1980s, and among other things, the Hawgs. I recall thinking Randy White was a big guy but the Hawgs of the 1980s made him look puny.

It hasn't slowed down, either. The lines of the last few years are heavier than ever. Not all of it is better eating, and better exercise, though I'm sure NFL PR would have you believe it to be so.

Steroids are just the tip of this iceberg though. Growth hormone abuse is far harder to detect.

From the url: http://www.measurement.gov.au/index.cfm?event=object.showContent&objectID=B54CCEF6-BCD6-81AC-148843FC82CAB33E


There are two main problems in detecting hGH abuse. Firstly, the hormone occurs naturally in the body, so that distinguishing an administered dose from the natural pool is difficult. Second, it is not practical to set a blood level of hGH that would be considered unnaturally high and indicative of doping, because levels of the naturally occurring hormone can vary by more than 100-fold in response to factors such as nutritional state, sleep and exercise.

A large, International Olympic Committee funded project aimed at identifying indirect markers of hGH abuse, Growth Hormone 2000, has been conducted. From this study, promising markers were identified, but large-scale studies to validate these findings across a large, varied population of elite and non-elite athletes are needed before this approach can be implemented.


David.

[trueblue1687]

All the gasping and jaw dropping by politicians and mediots is quite frankly nauseating. Having played football in the SEC, I can tell you that most performance enhancing drugs start before college. If athletes are serious about competing (at most...not all) positions in football, They use some sort of drug help, period. I've always laughed at the guys who pump their fists in the air and proclaim they are "natural" and weigh 300+ lbs (semi-lean weight). HGH used to be prohibitively expensive for most athletes to use. Not so anymore. Speed type athletes use steroids that may only offer a 2-3lb weight increase, but enhance fast twitch muscle ALOT (Winstrol-V, several veteranarian steroids and alot from Europe). Users are typically not using rec-drugs at all and alot that I knew would not even consume alcohol while using them. Our players always received scripts from doctors referred by team Drs. I guess some folks are naive enough to believe that athletes have evolved into body builder type physiques and posting never-before-heard-of 40 time to size ratios due to "improved training methods";)

[BigDInCharlotte]

I forget which players on the panthers team were taking them?

I forget all the names, but Todd Steussie, Jeff Mitchell, and Kevin Donnalley were 3 of the names. Also came out that Wesley Walls was involved in some way, but didn't seem to be one of the "primary" users.

I'll see if I can locate the big story that recently came out by a local columnist, but I think one reason you don't hear as much about it is that none of those guys are with the Panthers, and most of them are out of the NFL altogether.

Here is an ESPN link with some of the info:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=2564544

[calico]

Because it happened to the Panthers. If it had happened to a high profile team like Dallas or Oakland it would be front page news.


I agree. We just assume some players do and that a low profile team does not make a splash in the headlines.

Now, it were Brett Favre, then you would have mass suicide attempts and Madden would jerk the wheel of his bus into on comming traffic.

[SkinsandTerps]

A: Because the Panthers never won anything.
B: Because how many players that are accused are still with the team ?
C: Because its clear that Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds are much bigger stars than any Panther player.
D: Because the Panthers are in the NFL, among the elite teams, and the NFL does the best drug testing ...cough,cough.

[austintodallas]

Simple, most people assume most NFL guys take them. Not like 375 guys grow on trees.That's your answer right there.

[StanleySpadowski]

The reason that no one's talking about 'roids is because ESPN dominates sports "journalism" and they have a symbiotic relationship with the NFL.

Remember when the NFL killed Playmakers? When the NFL says "jump", ESPN says "how high?".

Just after this story came out, word was leaked that a scrub RB was suspended for four games. We'll see two or three more no names busted in the next few weeks so the NFL can claim they're doing something about the problem.

[ilovejerry]

Steroids didn't help them, More importantly . I want to know why no one talks about how the Niners stole our Third superbowl. They beat us in the NFC championship go on to win the superbowl, Then it comes out there were caught for going over the salary cap to sign the players to beat us, What happens they get rid of those 2 goumbahs and thats it, Thats Major BULL**T !!!! THEY ROBBED US. And these niners fans walk around like they have 5 rings the right way, That bothers me more then Steroids,
Man FYI, Randy White lived on them.

GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NFL probing 49ers for salary cap violations (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/examiner/archive/1999/07/23/NEWS15308.dtl)
- Eric Brazil and Scott Winokur, OF THE EXAMINER STAFF Bruce Adams of The Examiner staff contributed to this report. (badams@sfchronicle.com)
Friday, July 23, 1999



As if its ownership squabbles, the search for a new running back, and a new stadium that is receding into fantasy land weren't enough, the San Francisco 49ers are now being investigated by the National Football League for allegedly cheating on the salary cap.
NFL spokesman Greg Aiello confirmed Friday that the league's management council, which oversees its collective bargaining agreement, is looking into a report that the 49ers played fast and loose with the salary cap while suspended co-owner Eddie DeBartolo was running the team.
Aiello also confirmed that John York, husband of DeBartolo's sister and 49ers co-owner Denise DeBartolo York, tipped off the league to the possibility that the salary cap may have been circumvented. John York is now running the 49ers' front office.
"This would be yet another nail in Eddie's coffin, but it's too soon to tell if it's a true wrong," said a source close to the Yorks.
The salary cap limits how much each team can spend on players' combined pay, up to a total team payroll of $57 million, in an effort to keep teams competitive on the field. Without a cap, wealthier teams could sign all the best players and theoretically have far superior teams.
DeBartolo has been fined and suspended from running the 49ers since pleading guilty last year to a felony arising from a federal investigation of Louisiana gambling industry corruption.
Forty Niners general manager Bill Walsh acknowledged the investigation in a prepared statement and said "we are cooperating fully with the NFL." He would not elaborate.
A source close to DeBartolo, who declined to be identified, said the timing of the investigation is suspicious.
"First of all, you have to ask yourself about the timing of this with the negotiations going on. Eddie didn't negotiate contracts," the source said. Carmen Policy, the 49ers' former president who now is president of the Cleveland Browns, negotiated complicated contracts, while 49ers executive Dwight Clark, who also is now with the Browns, negotiated more routine agreements.
"Eddie's just not aware of anything that would have busted the cap. As far as he knew, everything was being done within the rules and the regulations. You can probably imagine how he feels about this. He doesn't think there's anything wrong, and he thinks the investigation will probably show that, but given that they're in negotiation, he has to question the motivation. This is, like, "what else do they want to do to this guy.' "
The investigation was first reported by Sports Illustrated's Peter King, who said it includes a 1997 contract signed by now-retired tight end Brent Jones, in which a $500,000 completion bonus left over from an earlier contract was forgiven by Jones and his agents Leigh Steinberg and Jeff Moorad. If Jones received the bonus outside of the salary cap, which applies to all NFL teams, he and the 49ers have violated NFL regulations.
Aiello said that the findings of the management council, which is composed of NFL staffers, will be submitted to the league's special master Jack Friedenthal, who will make a recommendation to Commissioner Paul Tagliabue.
Aiello said that if the allegations are found to be true, the 49ers would be subject to a $2 million fine and the loss of some future draft choices.
Although there have been salary cap circumvention investigations in the past, Aiello said that none resulted in penalties such as fines and draft choice losses.
Aiello said the investigation is not limited to the Jones contract and that he was unable to estimate when it will be wrapped up.
DeBartolo's free spending - typically for the players' benefit - has been well known to NFL officials, players and sportswriters for years.
In 1987, a strike year, he was fined $50,000 by then-Commissioner Pete Rozelle for giving bonuses to players.
After 49ers Super Bowl victories in 1989 and 1994, players and their wives or girlfriends were feted in Hawaii and Colorado Springs, courtesy of DeBartolo.
DeBartolo also has been known to lavish expensive Rolex watches on players and treat sportswriters to $175-a-shot glasses of fine brandy.
Before his $1 million fine and suspension earlier this year, the biggest disciplinary action taken by the NFL against him came in 1990, when Tagliabue, then new to the commissioner's office, fined him $500,000 for transferring ownership of the club to a newly created subsidiary of the family corporation that owns the team.
That transfer is now an element of the legal dispute between DeBartolo and Denise York.
The league at the time ruled that it violated rules against outside corporation ownership. DeBartolo could have been fined $1 million then, as well, but Tagliabue concluded that the move, unlike manipulation of a club salary cap, would not have given the club "any identifiable competitive advantage." <
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[Bob Sacamano]

I forget which players on the panthers team were taking them?

at least Todd Sauerbraun was taking them, I think 7 others, the total was 8 I believe, Jarrod Cooper is another that comes to mind, he just got busted again I think, I always found it funny that Todd was such a huge guy for a P

and as for your question Kittymamma, the NFL players go through a strict, and rigid testing procedure, it's almost impossible to go year long w/ taking steroids and not get caught, this isn't like baseball where you have months of no testing, you're getting tested year-long, and it's not a sample of players like the MLB, it's everyone, and they're unannounced tests too, so if you're juicing in the NFL, we'll know about it, now HGH is a different animal altogether

and to whoever brought up Armstrong, all his samples came back negative

[Crown Royal]

D: Because the Panthers are in the NFL, among the elite teams, and the NFL does the best drug testing ...cough,cough.

The Skins fan speaks truth. The NFL gets a large pass across the board because:

1) They were the first major league to seriously attempt to crack down
2) They make a habit of enforcing when possible, and WILL suspend anyone they catch
3) Their reputation for the above items protects them quite a bit - they have the rep of being a crack down, 0 tolerance league.

Now, don't get me wrong, the NFL IS the best of all the major leagues, but to say it couldn't be better or abuse isn't rampant would be incorrect. But as of right now, their reputation will protect them for quite a while, until a very high profile team like the Boys or Pats or Skins or Steelers get caught big time for abuse.

[Tass]

Simple, most people assume most NFL guys take them. Not like 375 guys grow on trees.
:hammer:

[Kittymama]

I disagree with some of the arguments. The idea that "everyone takes them"--let's get real: if a reporter suspected that, say, TO was taking them & could prove it, he/she would be on it like an alligator on a puppy. The idea of getting him in particular we all know would prove irresistable. And we can only imagine the sanctimony that would occur from the media in denouncing him.

So you had a large number of Panthers players who get caught (& don't tell me they were the only ones or that they got caught the first time they did it), but they're the cuddly feel-good team of that year, so we'll just ignore it. Either taking the steroids is wrong, or the NFL should just come out & confess that they don't care, so don't test.

[Bob Sacamano]

Ithe NFL should just come out & confess that they don't care, so don't test.

yeah, that would go real well for the NFL, that would go against everything they've been trying to do...get TV deals

[LeonDixson]

I may be misinformed, but I thought that Lance Armstrong's tests came back negative after his wins at the Tour de France?

I know their was at least one court case this year which rendered an opinion of Armstrong being not guilty.

You are correct. The ruling was that the Frog (French) lab made errors, at least in procedure, in their testing process. The french hated Lance and would have done anything to strip his title(s).

edit for spelling

[Crown Royal]

You are correct. The ruling was that the Frog (French) lab made errors, at least in procedure, in their testing process. The french hated Lance and would have done anything to strip his title(s).

edit for spelling

The French look at the Tour like we look at the SuperBowl. Lance being so dominant at it would be like the NFLE putting a team in France and allowing them to play in the SuperBowl, and them dominating it.

I'm not absolving the labs or anything, just giving a point of reference on their feeling of Lance winning. France and US are the two powers leftover from WWII that haven't let go of nationalism.

/politicalzone

[LeonDixson]

The French look at the Tour like we look at the SuperBowl. Lance being so dominant at it would be like the NFLE putting a team in France and allowing them to play in the SuperBowl, and them dominating it.

I'm not absolving the labs or anything, just giving a point of reference on their feeling of Lance winning. France and US are the two powers leftover from WWII that haven't let go of nationalism.

/politicalzone

I think that sums it up pretty well. They didn't think he had a fitting attitude. The "ugly American" syndrome, I guess. They may have loved him if wore a jersey with a yellow stripe up the back.

[BigDInCharlotte]

So you had a large number of Panthers players who get caught (& don't tell me they were the only ones or that they got caught the first time they did it), but they're the cuddly feel-good team of that year, so we'll just ignore it. Either taking the steroids is wrong, or the NFL should just come out & confess that they don't care, so don't test.

I'm sure there were others that haven't been named, yet, but it did come out that the doctor they were getting them from also had been prescribing them for players on other teams, as well. And one of the Panthers named started getting them from that doctor before he was even a member of the Panthers organization.

It was also reported that one or 2 of the Panthers actually loaded up on prescriptions immediately prior to leaving for the Super Bowl. So, I highly doubt it was the first time they had done it.