Eli Manning 20-26... Has he figured it out?

[MichaelWinicki]

I see Eli Manning was 20-26 during the 4th quarter and in the over-time session vs. Philly. All this happened after the Giants went to a "No-Huddle" offense.

Honestly that scares me if Eli has suddenly "figured it out". They shredded a very good Philly defense with that no-huddle. I guess not being able to make substitutions hurt the Eagle defense big-time. Maybe one of the Eagle fans will comment on this.

I mean 20-26 is pretty freaking unreal for a game not too mention a quarter and a half.

[theogt]

It's really hard to judge either team from that game because Eli and the Giants were absolutely DOMINATED for the previous 3 quarters.

[Funxva]

ESPNews reports New York Giants RB Tiki Barber (arm) is scheduled to have X-rays performed on his arm Monday, Sept. 18.

Anyone else see anything on that? (Got Tiki in my fantasy league)

[EastDallasCowboy]

As I commented to my friends when it was said during the post-game and on ESPN, how many times are we going to hear that Eli Manning has matured into a great NFL QB before it's actually true? How many times now has he "figured it out" only to throw 3 picks the next week?

Every time he has a good game, the media trips over itself to crown him the next savior of the quarterback position because they love the Manning story and they love to suck the #@$# of east coast teams.

The guy is good, and he had a good game. But everybody needs to quit jumping the gun on crowning him as greatness. Give me some great games strung together and a playoff win. Then we can start.

And for the record, while the end result was good...that pass to win the game yesterday was not. While it's true he was under pressure, the pass was badly lobbed and badly underthrown.....Sheldon Brown had as much to do with that TD as Eli. Burress made a nice catch, but Brown was very out of position and never even made a jump on the ball....he never even stuck an arm out to try and bat it out. Were I an Eagles fan, I'd be blaming Brown for having terrible position on that pass.

[MichaelWinicki]

As I commented to my friends when it was said during the post-game and on ESPN, how many times are we going to hear that Eli Manning has matured into a great NFL QB before it's actually true? How many times now has he "figured it out" only to throw 3 picks the next week?

Every time he has a good game, the media trips over itself to crown him the next savior of the quarterback position because they love the Manning story and they love to suck the #@$# of east coast teams.

The guy is good, and he had a good game. But everybody needs to quit jumping the gun on crowning him as greatness. Give me some great games strung together and a playoff win. Then we can start.

And for the record, while the end result was good...that pass to win the game yesterday was not. While it's true he was under pressure, the pass was badly lobbed and badly underthrown.....Sheldon Brown had as much to do with that TD as Eli. Burress made a nice catch, but Brown was very out of position and never even made a jump on the ball....he never even stuck an arm out to try and bat it out. Were I an Eagles fan, I'd be blaming Brown for having terrible position on that pass.


Sheldon "Pro-Bowl" Brown? Member of the famous Eagle "Pro-Bowl" secondary?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Maybe it is just me but a couple of long balls Eli threw (and turned into big plays, one being the game winning throw in OT) were actually BAD passes.

He was darn lucky he did not have two pics on those.

It seemed on both he was falling back and throwing off his back foot.

One of those things that when a WR catches it people call it a great play but in reality should never have been thrown.

[DWAREZ]

I see Eli Manning was 20-26 during the 4th quarter and in the over-time session vs. Philly. All this happened after the Giants went to a "No-Huddle" offense.

Honestly that scares me if Eli has suddenly "figured it out". They shredded a very good Philly defense with that no-huddle. I guess not being able to make substitutions hurt the Eagle defense big-time. Maybe one of the Eagle fans will comment on this.

I mean 20-26 is pretty freaking unreal for a game not too mention a quarter and a half.

Philly is suspect at the CB position with injury and poor play. The Burress pass was a jump ball and he carried the tiny DB into the endzone with him...:lmao2::laugh2::eek: It was a great comeback though regardless but do not assume Philly's secondary is what it once was!!! :)

[Roughneck]

I will say this for the younger Manning. He took an absolute pounding yesterday (8 sacks) and still was able to lead his team to a crucial victory on the road against a good football team. When has Peyton ever done that?

[EastDallasCowboy]

Sheldon "Pro-Bowl" Brown? Member of the famous Eagle "Pro-Bowl" secondary?

Yup.

And yet, the talking heads were heaping praise on Eli for that play calling it, among other things, "great"

Let me assure you, it was not. Watch it yourself.

Brown was out of position and never even made a half-hearted attempt on the ball. Yet the mediots neglected to mention it even once.

edit:

I will say this for the younger Manning. He took an absolute pounding yesterday (8 sacks) and still was able to lead his team to a crucial victory on the road against a good football team. When has Peyton ever done that?


Has there even been a game in which Manning has taken 8 sacks in the last 5 years?

[Cbz40]

If he didn't mature as a NFL QB yesterday....then he took a giant step towards that goal.

[Roughneck]

Has there even been a game in which Manning has taken 8 sacks in the last 5 years?I wasn't talking about the 8 sacks in specific but rather just the constant abuse Eli faced yesterday. I don't remember Peyton ever getting sacked that many times in a game. Then again, when you're facing him in the Playoffs, you don't even to breathe on him 8 times to turn him into Chutch version 2.0.

:cool:

[EastDallasCowboy]

I wasn't talking about the 8 sacks in specific but rather just the constant abuse Eli faced yesterday. I don't remember Peyton ever getting sacked that many times in a game. Then again, when you're facing him in the Playoffs, you don't even to breathe on him 8 times to turn him into Chutch version 2.0.


I'd have gone with Donovan McNabb instead of Chutch, but fair enough.

Hey, I'm done defending Peyton Manning. After he did it again last year, I drank the kool-aid and realized he really can't win the big game.

That said, in the regular season....there is not a better QB in the NFL. Palmer has a chance to be as good one day, but that's about it if you ask me.

But now I'm going way off topic. It's not a good comparison between Eli and Peyton because Peyton plays behind one of the best lines in the NFL, so he's never going to get the pressure on him that Eli does.

[ghst187]

If Eli becomes an elite QB then we are in serious trouble....of course I think that
A) he is still no where as good as his brother and never will be
B) his brother has never won a truly meaningful game...ever

no doubt he was on fire yesterday even after taking a beating. Doesn't matter if the WRs made the plays or not, the QB gets some credit. Few people despise the wo-Mannings more than I but I'll give him his credit. He engineered one of the great comebacks of the NFL yesterday.
I still think he's going to flash greatness from time to time but struggle mightily other times. I don't think he'll ever be a consistently top-flight QB.

[yesfan]

Eli has a sweet down the middle deep pass,that's it.He can't
seem to throw across the field or even outside the numbers,his
passes never seems to have any zip,and i don't see this kid,since
he's the next " Manning" displaying any kind of leadership role.I
think the team is good,and makes a mediocre QB look good.Jmo.

[chinch]

I see Eli Manning was 20-26 during the 4th quarter and in the over-time session vs. Philly. All this happened after the Giants went to a "No-Huddle" offense.

Honestly that scares me if Eli has suddenly "figured it out". They shredded a very good Philly defense with that no-huddle. I guess not being able to make substitutions hurt the Eagle defense big-time. Maybe one of the Eagle fans will comment on this.

I mean 20-26 is pretty freaking unreal for a game not too mention a quarter and a half.
eagals secondary is deplorable. it's sometimes easy to play "great" when you're winging it and down by 17 with nothing to lose.

fact remains he was sacked alot, made many bad throws, had alot of lucky bounces, etc. they were losing by 3 scores for a reason.

[Hostile]

I never doubted he'd turn out to be a good QB. Right now, he's already the best QB in the HFC East and it's only his 3rd year in the league.

[Kangaroo]

While so far in 2 games Eli stats to this point are impressive

51 Comp
77 Att
66.2 Completion %
618 yards
8.03 YPA
5 TD
2 int

8 Throws of 20+ yards

8 Sacks (all happen yesterday lol)

[MichaelWinicki]

I never doubted he'd turn out to be a good QB. Right now, he's already the best QB in the HFC East and it's only his 3rd year in the league.

I dunno Hos-- seems like several folks are still riding the "Eli stinks" bus.

I thought what he did was pretty damned impressive. Yeah the Eagle secondary isn't what it was but I remember our secondary getting torched by a pretty good young QB a couple weeks ago. Good QBing can make any secondary look like crap in my opinion.

[MichaelWinicki]

While so far in 2 games Eli stats to this point are impressive

51 Comp
77 Att
66.2 Completion %
618 yards
8.03 YPA
5 TD
2 int

8 Throws of 20+ yards

8 Sacks (all happen yesterday lol)


2 things impress me... the 66% completion percentage and the 8.02 ypa.

And come'on lets be honest Indy's defense isn't crap and neither is Philly's.

[Kangaroo]

2 things impress me... the 66% completion percentage and the 8.02 ypa.

And come'on lets be honest Indy's defense isn't crap and neither is Philly's.

I agree Mike I saw the 66%

Also the 5td's 2 int is solid play as well

[Hostile]

I dunno Hos-- seems like several folks are still riding the "Eli stinks" bus.

I thought what he did was pretty damned impressive. Yeah the Eagle secondary isn't what it was but I remember our secondary getting torched by a pretty good young QB a couple weeks ago. Good QBing can make any secondary look like crap in my opinion.Let 'em ride it. That bus isn't going anywhere but in a circle. If he wasn't a Manning he'd get less grief. If he was a Cowboy and not a Manning we'd be talking about him as an emerging deity.

[MichaelWinicki]

Let 'em ride it. That bus isn't going anywhere but in a circle. If he wasn't a Manning he'd get less grief. If he was a Cowboy and not a Manning we'd be talking about him as an emerging deity.

Boy isn't that the truth...

[chinch]

And come'on lets be honest Indy's defense isn't crap and neither is Philly's.
they're not? since when?

[MichaelWinicki]

they're not? since when?


Last year Indy was 11th in total defense and Philly was 23rd.


I don't think that's bottom of the league...

[burmafrd]

Put several games in a row where he has a rating of 90 and better and then talk about the punk. He STANK for 3 quarters.

[wileedog]

Put several games in a row where he has a rating of 90 and better and then talk about the punk. He STANK for 3 quarters.

Agreed. Eli managed to overthrow a wide open 6'5" Buress not once but twice. He was lucky neither was picked.

Either way, the Giants D got gashed for 450 yards against a good not great Eagles O. Their secondary was horrible. Eli is going to have to win a lot of shootouts at that rate, and while I think he will eventually be good I don't think he will be elite because his accuracy and pocket awareness are average at best.

[superpunk]

He looked good yesterday, except for the sacks.

Before we claim he's turned the corner, you have to observe who he was playing. Philly is currently ranked 27th in passing D, and are allowing opponents to complete 70% of their passes, for a 108 rating. David Carr went 18 of 27 and a touch.

Eli had a great game, but we saw him do this against piss-poor secondaries like STL and SD early last year. Eventually, he faced stiffer competition and better game plans. it's entirely possible he's got this figured out, but I'll reserve judgement. He could have cost them the game with the sacks, and that late fumble yesterday, despite his impressive passing performance.

[chinch]

Last year Indy was 11th in total defense and Philly was 23rd.

I don't think that's bottom of the league...
which reminds me of a few years ago when the 'boys were ranked very, very high on D and we were a paper tiger. neither of those teams has a good D or secondary.

[jobberone]

I just watched the game again. He threw a lot of balls off his back foot and just winged more than that under pressure. Many of those balls 'just' got to the receiver or was thrown up for grabs. He also threw some in there.

He was lucky nearly as much as he threw good passes.

They still count though. You have to give him some credit no matter how much you think the above view is legit being my own critic.

I'll take a wait and see attitude about him being great.

[Bob Sacamano]

we passed on Eli Manning OMG!! ;)

[tomson75]

I'm not buying into this hype just yet. He looked awful until the end of the game...both of those defenses were dog tired. Jump balls +6'4" receivers + No-look lobbed passes + tired defense.. does not equal Pro-Bowl QB IMO. Yet.

[vicjagger]

ROMOSEXUALS OF THE WORLD UNITE!!!

Don't you mean "untie"?

[Kilyin]

Wow, this thread is absolutely insane. You're calling Eli the real deal based on that game? LMAO... no, really.

Eli Manning looked absolutely horrible. The Eagles mailed that game in, second half, and all of a sudden Eli is wearing cleats. McChoke is too busy playing 'two for flenching' at the line of scrimmage to worry about sealing the deal. The Eagles got soft and they paid for it... not a foreign concept to people around these parts.

Okay, where were we? Oh yeah, Eli Manning is the greatest. Yeah. So in OT, Manning throws up a prayer on a jailbreak blitz on 3rd down, gets extremely lucky when Burress comes down with it, and that suddenly validates him as an 'elite QB'? Uh, k.

Best QB in the NFC East?

:eek:

[CrazyCowboy]

I see Eli Manning was 20-26 during the 4th quarter and in the over-time session vs. Philly. All this happened after the Giants went to a "No-Huddle" offense.

Honestly that scares me if Eli has suddenly "figured it out". They shredded a very good Philly defense with that no-huddle. I guess not being able to make substitutions hurt the Eagle defense big-time. Maybe one of the Eagle fans will comment on this.

I mean 20-26 is pretty freaking unreal for a game not too mention a quarter and a half.

He is my fantasy QB

[Chuck 54]

Manning proved last year that he is a very hot QB in the 4th quarter...if he keeps this up, they are going to label him with a title like "captain comeback" or some such nonsense. You can say what you want about his inconsistancies, but he's already proven that he's clutch and can lead 4th quarter comebacks ala Roger Staubach...I'd take any day.

[MichaelWinicki]

He looked good yesterday, except for the sacks.

Before we claim he's turned the corner, you have to observe who he was playing. Philly is currently ranked 27th in passing D, and are allowing opponents to complete 70% of their passes, for a 108 rating. David Carr went 18 of 27 and a touch.

Eli had a great game, but we saw him do this against piss-poor secondaries like STL and SD early last year. Eventually, he faced stiffer competition and better game plans. it's entirely possible he's got this figured out, but I'll reserve judgement. He could have cost them the game with the sacks, and that late fumble yesterday, despite his impressive passing performance.


OK, let me understand this... Sooooooooooo, if you're a boxer and you've been in exactly 2 fights. In the first fight you didn't do well but you won. In the second fight you were winning for a while but then the other guy literally mops the floor with you the rest of the way. You suffer a hellacious beating. In the post fight interview someone asks you what you thought of the second guy's fighting skills, you answer, "Oh he wasn't very good-- the guy he was fighting lost the fight".

http://www.candida-yeast-problems.com/dork.gif

[MichaelWinicki]

which reminds me of a few years ago when the 'boys were ranked very, very high on D and we were a paper tiger. neither of those teams has a good D or secondary.


Nice reply.

We're talking about Eli Manning and you bring up the 2003 Cowboy defense.

But just to amuse you I'll offer some sort of reply to your post...

You do relalize the 2003 team went to the playoffs AND it featured Quincy Carter at QB and Troy Hambrick as the starting HB?

I really don't expect a reply.

[superpunk]

OK, let me understand this... Sooooooooooo, if you're a boxer and you've been in exactly 2 fights. In the first fight you didn't do well but you won. In the second fight you were winning for a while but then the other guy literally mops the floor with you the rest of the way. You suffer a hellacious beating. In the post fight interview someone asks you what you thought of the second guy's fighting skills, you answer, "Oh he wasn't very good-- the guy he was fighting lost the fight".

http://www.candida-yeast-problems.com/dork.gif
What are you even talking about? Did I claim the Eagles gave the game away? That Eli didn't make the plays he needed to? If "He looked good" and "he played a great game" suggest that, I need an english refresher course.

The strength of competition Eli faced was not very good. We have seen him beat up on far inferior competition ALREADY. We know he can do this. But, if you're wondering if he's "turned the corner", your criteria should be a little higher - like beating up on team's who can cover. He did the exact same thing last year, and then folded like a card table when the competition got tougher, and the season got longer. People were claiming he'd turned the corner after games against Arizona, STL, and SD last year. Turns out they were wrong. I think a little more time, and a better test sample of competition, is necessary before claiming Eli has turned the corner and is headed into elite territory.

[MichaelWinicki]

Wow, this thread is absolutely insane. You're calling Eli the real deal based on that game? LMAO... no, really.

Eli Manning looked absolutely horrible. The Eagles mailed that game in, second half, and all of a sudden Eli is wearing cleats. McChoke is too busy playing 'two for flenching' at the line of scrimmage to worry about sealing the deal. The Eagles got soft and they paid for it... not a foreign concept to people around these parts.

Okay, where were we? Oh yeah, Eli Manning is the greatest. Yeah. So in OT, Manning throws up a prayer on a jailbreak blitz on 3rd down, gets extremely lucky when Burress comes down with it, and that suddenly validates him as an 'elite QB'? Uh, k.

Best QB in the NFC East?

:eek:


Here is part of my post that started this thread...

"Honestly that scares me if Eli has suddenly "figured it out"."

You caught that "if" right?

if
Function: conjunction
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gif; akin to Old High German ibu if
1 a : in the event that b : allowing that c : on the assumption that d : on condition that
2 : WHETHER <asked if the mail had come> <I doubt if I'll pass the course>
3 -- used as a function word to introduce an exclamation expressing a wish <if it would only rain>
4 : even though : although perhaps <an interesting if untenable argument>
5 : and perhaps not even <few if any changes are expected> -- often used with not <difficult if not impossible>
- if anything : on the contrary even : perhaps even <if anything, you ought to apologize>

[BrAinPaiNt]

Give it up Winicki...you dirty New York homer. :p: ;)

[MichaelWinicki]

Let 'em ride it. That bus isn't going anywhere but in a circle. If he wasn't a Manning he'd get less grief. If he was a Cowboy and not a Manning we'd be talking about him as an emerging deity.


If that were Bledsoe completing 20 out of 26 in less than two quarters and brought his team back to win after being 17 points down there would have been 14 threads started on this board right after the game. We would have people proclaiming everything from Bledsoe being the "greatest QB of all time", to people wanting to have a contest to see which fan can be the first to name his kid after Bledsoe, to drewpies that have been banned on this site sneaking back and letting the world know they weren't going to change their "Drew Bledsoe underwear" until he lost another game.

But since someone else did-- especially another QB in the division that is going to be around for a long, long time making our lives miserable-- well he was "lucky" or Philly's defense is a POS or the "stars were aligned" or some such nonsense.

[MichaelWinicki]

Give it up Winicki...you dirty New York homer. :p: ;)

Eli hater. :laugh2:

[BrAinPaiNt]

Eli hater. :laugh2:

:laugh2:

No not actually.

He impressed me a great deal when he came in off the bench during a bowl game when he was a freshman and almost lead his team to a victory.

I just don't think he is a grid iron god so far and I think he really makes some stupid throws at times that either by luck or his WR's ability turns into big plays.

Still would take him as a cowboy though.

[superpunk]

If that were Bledsoe completing 20 out of 26 in less than two quarters and brought his team back to win after being 17 points down there would have been 14 threads started on this board right after the game. We would have people proclaiming everything from Bledsoe being the "greatest QB of all time", to people wanting to have a contest to see which fan can be the first to name his kid after Bledsoe, to drewpies that have been banned on this site sneaking back and letting the world know they weren't going to change their "Drew Bledsoe underwear" until he lost another game.

Actually, I have a feeling there'd be an inordinate amount of hand-wringing and proclamations of doom by "certain" people over Bledsoe taking 8 sacks and putting us ina 24-7 hole in the first place. Then, when it seemed the tide was turned, our team was about to win it, he fumbles, luckily having the ball recovered by his own team. You don't need a great comeback if you don't play like crap for three quarters. ;)

[MichaelWinicki]

Actually, I have a feeling there'd be an inordinate amount of hand-wringing and proclamations of doom by "certain" people over Bledsoe taking 8 sacks and putting us ina 24-7 hole in the first place. Then, when it seemed the tide was turned, our team was about to win it, he fumbles, luckily having the ball recovered by his own team. You don't need a great comeback if you don't play like crap for three quarters. ;)


Hey, I don't disagree with that. The fact is the Eagles played lights out for 3 quarters and then the Giants woke up and the Eagles fell apart.

[chinch]

Nice reply.
We're talking about Eli Manning and you bring up the 2003 Cowboy defense.
says the guy proclaiming "Indy's defense isn't crap and neither is Philly's."

lol

[MichaelWinicki]

says the guy proclaiming "Indy's defense isn't crap and neither is Philly's."

lol


Indy had the 11th rated defense out of 32 teams... 11 out of 32. If you think that's awful then I don't even know if shock therapy will help at this point.

Philly was 23 last year--- Good? Not hardly-- but certainly not total dog **** like what you are suggesting.

You're amazing. Reallly. Props for that.

[ZeroClub]

I don't know if he's going to be elite or not. His showing on Sunday was very good, and so, worrisome.

He had a lot of trouble down the homestretch last season, which to me suggested that he might not develop into a solid QB.

But Sunday's performance suggested otherwise.

[superpunk]

I dunno where you're looking Winky, but Indy was ranked 15th against the pass last year, according to ESPN. Philly was 21st. In terms of completion percentage, which was the main point of your OP, I think, Philly was allowing 59%, and Indy was the worst in the league at 67%. This season, they haven't shown any improvement, and they are tied for 29th, each allowing 70% of passes to be completed.

Can we agree he needs to face some tougher competition, down the stretch? Like I said, we saw him do this exact thing last year. Then he proceeded to crap the bed.

[MichaelWinicki]

I dunno where you're looking Winky, but Indy was ranked 15th against the pass last year, according to ESPN. Philly was 21st. In terms of completion percentage, which was the main point of your OP, I think, Philly was allowing 59%, and Indy was the worst in the league at 67%. This season, they haven't shown any improvement, and they are tied for 29th, each allowing 70% of passes to be completed.

Can we agree he needs to face some tougher competition, down the stretch? Like I said, we saw him do this exact thing last year. Then he proceeded to crap the bed.


OK, let's break it down even further-- I'm betting we can find one person on Indy's defense that ranked last on something so we justify the "crap" comment.

Some of you folks must have been on OJ's defense team.

[superpunk]

OK, let's break it down even further-- I'm betting we can find one person on Indy's defense that ranked last on something so we justify the "crap" comment.

Some of you folks must have been on OJ's defense team.

Yeah. Because I said either defense was crap. :rolleyes:

The facts say both defenses are allowing the opposition to complete a high percentage of passes. Your original argument cited Eli's late game heroics, SPECIFICALLY his high completion percentage. Looking at it objectively, considering the competition's poor reputation for allowing a high percentage of completions, Eli's accomplishment looks less impressive. Add to it, the fact that Eli performed similarly against similar opposition last year, only to fade down the stretch against tougher pas defenses, and you have to wonder where anyone could make the "turned the corner" determination on Eli.

So far, we've already seen this movie. There's a chance the ending could be different, but quite honestly, it's too early to say.

[Doomsday101]

Personally I think Eli is going to be a very good QB in this league but have felt that way about him since draft day.