What the hell happened to Kurt Warner?

[TruBlueCowboy]

So Denny Green announced that the Matt Leinart era begins next Sunday. Can't say I blame him. No matter how raw your QB is, anything is better than a QB throwing 3 picks a game, and worse, fumbling even more.

So my questions is: What the hell happened to Kurt Warner? He's looked like this since his last year with the Rams. How does a guy go from one of the greatest seasons in NFL history to a fumbling, bumbling QB who might not even be second string?

Was that magical year in St. Louis a fluke? Have the injuries to his hand been worse than he's let on? Is it all just a mental issue? He hasn't let himself go, and he wasn't a turnover machine his first two seasons. He threw the picks every now and then, but this guy has gone from Troy Aikman to Chad Hutchinson when it comes to handling the football.

[Rampage]

he got hit to many times and is now losing his job to a rookie lol

[jksmith269]

He Sucks and was a Flash in the Pan more was made out of him than was ever really there. Heck his wife is more of a man than he is.....

[Cowboy Junkie]

If true , this is a foolish move by Green

[Rampage]

If true , this is a foolish move by Green well atleast matt can handle a snap

[JMead]

Didnt he have some injuries to his hand at one point? That could probably explain why he fumbles like he does.

[tomson75]

If true , this is a foolish move by Green

Thats just like, your opinion, man.

[Rampage]

Didnt he have some injuries to his hand at one point? That could probably explain why he fumbles like he does. yeah roy broke it

[Cowboy Junkie]

well atleast matt can handle a snap

this move is not about Warners ability as much it is about telling the team the season is over and time to go into rebuild..

Too much talent in Arizona to give up so early.
Now after 5 or 6 more games than yeah if things arent out of control(record wise) Yeah give the rookie some game time

[jman]

well atleast matt can handle a snap

Can he? Do we really know yet?

[TruBlueCowboy]

this move is not about Warners ability as much it is about telling the team the season is over and time to go into rebuild..

Too much talent in Arizona to give up so early.
Now after 5 or 6 more games than yeah if things arent out of control(record wise) Yeah give the rookie some game time

To be frank with ya, I look at it as an attempt to save the season. I don't see how you can get worse than a QB coughing it up 5+ times a game, whether they're picks or fumbles.

[Natedawg44]

One thing about Warner I couldn't believe the stat that Peter King quoted.
Marino games to reach 20,000 yards 75
Warner games to reach 20,000 yards 76:eek:

[tomson75]

Can he? Do we really know yet?


Last time I checked, they still have practices in the NFL.

[Cowboy Junkie]

To be frank with ya, I look at it as an attempt to save the season. I don't see how you can get worse than a QB coughing it up 5+ times a game, whether they're picks or fumbles.


Yeah but its one game.
You dont see them ousting the guy in Pittsburgh.
Warner had a very goo year last year when Healthy and ther is no reason he cant do a better job than a rookie this year...

[theogt]

If true , this is a foolish move by GreenNot likely. An average QB should go nuts with those weapons surrounding him. Matt Leinart after half a season will be an above average QB.

[wileedog]

In large part I think he was over-rated being surrounded by the Greatest SHow in StL.

BUt one of his first Giant games he got absolutely pummeled (6 sacks and a lot more hits), and they found out later he played half the game with a concussion. He hasn't been close to the same player since.

But St. Louis let him walk too, so I don't think it was all the injury. I think he was just a semi-decent QB who walked into the perfect situation for a couple of years.

[Cowboy Junkie]

Not likely. An average QB should go nuts with those weapons surrounding him. Matt Leinart after half a season will be an above average QB.
Like I said I think this has little to do with what one out of the 2 QB's has the better ability but about those under 50 guys that have been busting it .
Do you this might be a message to them that Green thinks the season is over ..
I would think they rather have the vet thats been practicing with them for the last 3 months

[jman]

Last time I checked, they still have practices in the NFL.

Is the same guy teaching Warner to take snaps teaching Matt to take snaps?

[Cowboy Junkie]

Last time I checked, they still have practices in the NFL.


Taking snaps in practice I would think would be much easier than taking them with 11 monsters trying to disabilate you.

[theogt]

Like I said I think this has little to do with what one out of the 2 QB's has the better ability but about those under 50 guys that have been busting it .
Do you this might be a message to them that Green thinks the season is over ..
I would think they rather have the vet thats been practicing with them for the last 3 monthsHe's not mailing it in if he's going with the best player at QB.

[Cowboy Junkie]

He's not mailing it in if he's going with the best player at QB.


I would say he knows where is team is at mentally but I would just think that Warner is more prepared to win at this stage than the rookie....

rookie QBs rarley do well enough to win .Rothlisburg excluded

[Cowboy Junkie]

I would say he knows where is team is at mentally but I would just think that Warner is more prepared to win at this stage than the rookie....

rookie QBs rarley do well enough to win .Rothlisburg excluded


And he hasnt practiced with the team as much .

[big dog cowboy]

Heck his wife is more of a man than he is.....
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[tomson75]

Taking snaps in practice I would think would be much easier than taking them with 11 monsters trying to disabilate you.


You're missing my point.

Don't you think that, just maybe, the Cardinals organization knows a little bit more about this than you?

They've got an aging, streaky QB who has been turning the ball over 4+ times a game. They also have a young talented first rounder that played well in the pre-season. HMMMMM. You think, perhaps, he's been outplaying the old guy in practice too? It's definitely a possibilty. Now, that being said, you may continue being smarter than the coaches of teams you probably know very little about.

[Cowboy Junkie]

You're missing my point.

Don't you think that, just maybe, the Cardinals organization knows a little bit more about this than you?

They've got an aging, streaky QB who has been turning the ball over 4+ times a game. They also have a young talented first rounder that played well in the pre-season. HMMMMM. You think, perhaps, he's been outplaying the old guy in practice too? It's definitely a possibilty. Now, that being said, you may continue being smarter than the coaches of teams you probably know very little about.


I dont know if they know more about the NFL or not.
They haven't showed it in the last 20 years..

I can see I am the only one that feels like it is a mistake and for the future it may not be but for this year if they go with the rookie for all next week without an inhury to Warner . I would be shocked if they made the playoffs this year , would You?

[Word Mofo]

Warner lost his game after Roy broke his hand. He lost his confidence, and it's been a downward spiral from there.

Still, I think Leinart is way overrated, but who knows, maybe I'll eat my words. They should have stuck with Warner.

[jcblanco22]

One thing about Warner I couldn't believe the stat that Peter King quoted.
Marino games to reach 20,000 yards 75
Warner games to reach 20,000 yards 76:eek:

He also has the best career completion percentage in NFL history.

Folks are jumping the gun way too much on their assessments of Warner. Look at his stats from last year game by game--the guy had a great year when healthy. For that matter, look at his performance the first two games of the season this year.

The guy does have considerable problems holding on to the ball, but I think his release and decision making ability came back strong last season.

[Word Mofo]

Maybe Tampa Bay is going to pick him up?

[tomson75]

I dont know if they know more about the NFL or not.
They haven't showed it in the last 20 years..

I can see I am the only one that feels like it is a mistake and for the future it may not be but for this year if they go with the rookie for all next week without an inhury to Warner . I would be shocked if they made the playoffs this year , would You?

Yes, I would be shocked if the made the playoffs...with Warner OR Leinart. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to attack you here, its just that DG has the advantage of seeing these two guys day in and day out. I'd be sick of seeing my vet QB turn the ball over every other series too...slightly less so if it were a rookie.

[stag hunter]

Thats just like, your opinion, man.

dios mio, man

[tomson75]

dios mio, man

:D at least someone got it.

[CowboyMike]

I can trace this all back to one thing.

Roy Williams' hit on Kurt Warner that broke his hand and ushered in the Marc Bulger era. Warner was never the same before.




Quite a hit by Roy Williams...










Atta boy Roy.

[Cowboy Junkie]

Yes, I would be shocked if the made the playoffs...with Warner OR Leinart. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to attack you here, its just that DG has the advantage of seeing these two guys day in and day out. I'd be sick of seeing my vet QB turn the ball over every other series too...slightly less so if it were a rookie.


i wasnt taking it an attack.
I understand and repect your opinion ..
The whos knows more football me or the Cards was a joke at the Cards expense not a counter punch...

You may be very well right .there are many ways to accomplish things and if there wasnt disagreement this board would be awfully boring.

[Billy Bullocks]

this move is not about Warners ability as much it is about telling the team the season is over and time to go into rebuild..

Too much talent in Arizona to give up so early.
Now after 5 or 6 more games than yeah if things arent out of control(record wise) Yeah give the rookie some game time

Too much talent? I guess they have a good squad. But realasitcally, they arent going anywhere this year with Warner. You might as well let Leinart get in there and learn now. The seasons a wash eitehr way. They have alot of YOUNG talent, and Edge should have a few good years left in him. And dont discoutn Arrington, he's a very good back.

[SuspectCorner]

warner had a bad game. and sure the book on him is he will come unwound in the face of constant pressure. gee, now there's a familiar tune... it describes just about any QB in the NFL.

ultimately, leinart will look exactly like what he is - a rookie QB who is nowhere near ready for primetime.

green will be courting warner again shortly. book it.

[Bob Sacamano]

So my questions is: What the hell happened to Kurt Warner?

one man:

Roy Williams

he broke his index finger, and Warner hasn't been right since

[Bob Sacamano]

yeah roy broke it

yep, back in '03

I still remember stupid Quincy sliding short of the 1st down, late in the 4th, when all he had to do was keep running, and then slide, cuz he had the 1st, just he heard footsteps and slid early, that almost cost us that game

[Bob Sacamano]

You're missing my point.

Don't you think that, just maybe, the Cardinals organization knows a little bit more about this than you?

They've got an aging, streaky QB who has been turning the ball over 4+ times a game. They also have a young talented first rounder that played well in the pre-season. HMMMMM. You think, perhaps, he's been outplaying the old guy in practice too? It's definitely a possibilty. Now, that being said, you may continue being smarter than the coaches of teams you probably know very little about.

I think it's more political than anything else, Matt is a high-priced 1st round pick, your team looks bad, and so does the vet QB starting, it's early in the season, time to make a move, and start getting some of your money back, it's why Buffalo jettisoned Bledsoe even though it was clear Losman wasn't ready

[SuspectCorner]

I think it's more political than anything else, Matt is a high-priced 1st round pick, your team looks bad, and so does the vet QB starting, it's early in the season, time to make a move, and start getting some of your money back, it's why Buffalo jettisoned Bledsoe even though it was clear Losman wasn't ready
and Lossman still isn't ready. i was laffin' my a** off sunday watching him hang out his RB on short dumpoffs that were 4 feet over his head. dude's play is atrocious. cutting Bledsoe loose was pure buffoonery and entirely to the benefit of our heroes.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

yeah roy broke it

He was never the same after that play.

[Billy Bullocks]

Yeh, but circumstances changed too. St. Louis was kind of a 1 year wonder in alot of ways. I mean they had their run, and its hard to repeat as SB champ, but that team has been on the decline since the loss to N.E.

Warner hasn't had the type of talent around him since those years as well. Holt, Bruce, and Hakim were easily the best WR trio in the league (plus they had Phroel, who isn't a bad option at #4). Throw in one of the best backs of all time, a very strong offensive line, and a stadium that doesn't require you to play in the elements, and that sets up most QBs with a pretty good chance of success.

Though I will give him credit for actually getting done what he had to do. He was very accurate too, but that probably had something to do with how open someone always was, plus the threat of Faulk.

[JMead]

and Lossman still isn't ready. i was laffin' my a** off sunday watching him hang out his RB on short dumpoffs that were 4 feet over his head. dude's play is atrocious. cutting Bledsoe loose was pure buffoonery and entirely to the benefit of our heroes.

In the defense of Losman ( even though I dont like him ) the wind was blowing 25 MPH with gusts up to 33 MPH. But yea.. I think the Bills regret not keeping Bledsoe. His leadership meant alot for that team.

[ravidubey]

Martz's system beat his QB's up good. Warner could only take so much; realize he was in both NFL Europe and the Arena league for years before starting as a Ram and played at a high level for 4 straight years before age and injuries took hold. His first Superbowl season started seven years ago.

[Nomad]

He didn't really get his chance until late in his career and at that point was probably where most athletes begin to drop off anyway, so he only had a couple years, and he's only like a year younger than Favre who's having the same problems. If he had started earlier in his career it might not seem like such a quick change from greatness to failure. Plus that Rams team that year was extremely talented as others have said.

[jcblanco22]

Martz's system beat his QB's up good. Warner could only take so much; realize he was in both NFL Europe and the Arena league for years before starting as a Ram and played at a high level for 4 straight years before age and injuries took hold. His first Superbowl season started seven years ago.

Right on. Not only beats them up, but asks them to take a good amount of risks that can lead to a few interceptions. Even so, as you said, he had multiple solid years, not just one as some are saying in this thread. He also had a very good year last year.

[joseephuss]

Right on. Not only beats them up, but asks them to take a good amount of risks that can lead to a few interceptions. Even so, as you said, he had multiple solid years, not just one as some are saying in this thread. He also had a very good year last year.

11 TDs to 9 INTs and 9 fumbles(5 lost) is not a very good year. It is average at best.

[ABQCOWBOY]

11 TDs to 9 INTs and 9 fumbles(5 lost) is not a very good year. It is average at best.

With the offensive line the Cards had last year, that's not all that bad at all. Who ever posted the remarks about Leinart looking like a rookie QB once he gets his chance is correct. The Cards have a bad offensive line. They have lots of talent at the skilled positions and on the defensive side of the ball but that O-Line is bad. No other way to put it IMO.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think it's interesting that so many are so willing to throw Warner to the wolves off this last performance when we basically had the same kind of performance in game two from our own starter.

It may just be a matter of the coaching staff believing that Leinart has more mobility and so, a better fit because of that OL. Either way, I don't believe it's a good move but hey, I'm not real close to the situation either.

[Secondary2None3141]

Is Kurt Warner a hall of famer?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Is Kurt Warner a hall of famer?

No. Not in my opinion.

[superpunk]

My guess is witch-craft played a major factor in his decline.

http://www.sptimes.com/News/013100/photos/sup-brenda.jpg

[ABQCOWBOY]

My guess is witch-craft played a major factor in his decline.

http://www.sptimes.com/News/013100/photos/sup-brenda.jpg


This sounds as close to the truth as anything.

[joseephuss]

With the offensive line the Cards had last year, that's not all that bad at all. Who ever posted the remarks about Leinart looking like a rookie QB once he gets his chance is correct. The Cards have a bad offensive line. They have lots of talent at the skilled positions and on the defensive side of the ball but that O-Line is bad. No other way to put it IMO.

I agree that the Cards have a woeful O-line. I just don't think Warner is that good any more. He is still better than a rookie no matter what the credentials. He will be a good back up for any team, but his days as a solid starter have passed.

Leinart will struggle behind this line, but he has the back ground to be a rookie starter. Not all rookies should be thrown into the fire. Some guys are ready to go and start their learning in the NFL. Leinart is one of those guys in my opinion. May as well start the future now.

[Stautner]

Warner was the right guy in the right situation with the Rams - the pieces just all fell in place just right.

But he does have flaws - and once some of the pieces started to crumble, once he had a few injuries and once he found himself in another offensive scheme he became the solid, but not outstanding QB that is his true self.

If he were mobile that would help, but he's not. Bottom line is that he has a great arm and can still be a solid NFL QB in the right situation, but he isn't a guy that can fit wherever he goes and make a big difference.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree that the Cards have a woeful O-line. I just don't think Warner is that good any more. He is still better than a rookie no matter what the credentials. He will be a good back up for any team, but his days as a solid starter have passed.

Leinart will struggle behind this line, but he has the back ground to be a rookie starter. Not all rookies should be thrown into the fire. Some guys are ready to go and start their learning in the NFL. Leinart is one of those guys in my opinion. May as well start the future now.


Well Josee, I guess we will see.

I look at Warner and I can't help but feel like all the same things that are said to justify our own QB are valid for him as well. If you give this guy time, he is as good as anybody out there when it comes to throwing the football. He is not ever going to be mistaken for a mobile QB, to be sure, but I just think he still has something in the right situation. JMO

[joseephuss]

No. Not in my opinion.

Mine either. His 3 year span from 1999 to 2001 with the Rams was amazing. An absolutely great stretch. It just is not enough to elevate him to HOF material. Since that time, he has done really nothing of note. He hasn't played a full season and has only 5 more TDs than INTs since those great years. Also his teams have had a losing record during that stretch. That isn't all on him, but people do look at wins and losses with QBs.

[chargrove]

If the Drew-meister was responsible for five turnovers and a subsequent loss here, you guys would be calling for Tony Romo and you know it.

BTW, wasn't Warner like the number one QB for the first week of this season stats-wise? Two weeks later he's benched? Seems kind of hasty to me, but then again I'm not watching them practice every day, so perhaps Leinart is ready to roll. I mean, the guy is already like 25, right? He'd better be ready.

[joseephuss]

Well Josee, I guess we will see.

I look at Warner and I can't help but feel like all the same things that are said to justify our own QB are valid for him as well. If you give this guy time, he is as good as anybody out there when it comes to throwing the football. He is not ever going to be mistaken for a mobile QB, to be sure, but I just think he still has something in the right situation. JMO

I understand your points. The right situation means getting that line to be at least average. That probably will at least take a year to do if not a little longer. By that time Leinart would be the starter anyway.

[joseephuss]

If the Drew-meister was responsible for five turnovers and a subsequent loss here, you guys would be calling for Tony Romo and you know it.

BTW, wasn't Warner like the number one QB for the first week of this season stats-wise? Two weeks later he's benched? Seems kind of hasty to me, but then again I'm not watching them practice every day, so perhaps Leinart is ready to roll. I mean, the guy is already like 25, right? He'd better be ready.

Leinart is 23(7 days older than Vince Young). Plenty of people were calling for Romo after week 1 and more would have joined in if Bledsoe had the same kind of performance against the Skins.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I understand your points. The right situation means getting that line to be at least average. That probably will at least take a year to do if not a little longer. By that time Leinart would be the starter anyway.

Yes, that is what it would mean, I agree. I think it's early to make a determination on QB or OL at this point. AZ's line was pretty banged up last year. They didn't play together a lot. I think it takes time to develop that cohension but I guess we will see what happens. Green made no commitment long term about the QB job. It could be an injury issue. Green has never been a stupid Coach IMO. I guess we will see.

[DLCassidy]

I think it's interesting that so many are so willing to throw Warner to the wolves off this last performance when we basically had the same kind of performance in game two from our own starter.

It may just be a matter of the coaching staff believing that Leinart has more mobility and so, a better fit because of that OL. Either way, I don't believe it's a good move but hey, I'm not real close to the situation either.

You mean game 1 but I agree with your point. I think this move was planned to happen at the first justifiable opportunity. It's similar really to Warner's last stop in NY. That team was 5-3 at the time of the move and it was obvious they were flushing any chance they had to make the playoffs that year by going to Eli.

This move is all about getting Leinart ready to make a playoff run next year after another offseason of adding pieces. Warner was just there to keep the starting seat warm until Leinart had enough practice snaps to be ready. If Kurt had been lighting it up they'd have had to wait but I think DG is happy about the move because he's thinking about next year already. But there is no doubt Warner is better right now than Leinart although Warner is on par with Daunte Culpepper when it comes to fumbling.

[sbuscha]

So Denny Green announced that the Matt Leinart era begins next Sunday. Can't say I blame him. No matter how raw your QB is, anything is better than a QB throwing 3 picks a game, and worse, fumbling even more.

So my questions is: What the hell happened to Kurt Warner? He's looked like this since his last year with the Rams. How does a guy go from one of the greatest seasons in NFL history to a fumbling, bumbling QB who might not even be second string?

Was that magical year in St. Louis a fluke? Have the injuries to his hand been worse than he's let on? Is it all just a mental issue? He hasn't let himself go, and he wasn't a turnover machine his first two seasons. He threw the picks every now and then, but this guy has gone from Troy Aikman to Chad Hutchinson when it comes to handling the football.

Denny Green NEVER announced this. In fact he is saying he is not announcing personnel plans and won't discuss until Tuesday. The media is making this a story as they always do...nothing more.

[CrazyCowboy]

Didnt he have some injuries to his hand at one point? That could probably explain why he fumbles like he does.

Yes, best I remember it was his thumb......maybe it is still a problem

[superpunk]

On second thought....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2602503

[dougonthebench]

Warner is old and overated!

[Da Hammer]

they just said on PTI that Warner said that he is sticking with Warner which i believe is the right decision. Even though Warner sucks if they put in Leinart right now then expect them to be even worse than they already are. Like the other rookie QB's in the league they need to wait till they are sure that they can do the job and wont get overwhelmed

[Stautner]

they just said on PTI that Warner said that he is sticking with Warner which i believe is the right decision. Even though Warner sucks if they put in Leinart right now then expect them to be even worse than they already are. Like the other rookie QB's in the league they need to wait till they are sure that they can do the job and wont get overwhelmed

Or until the playoffs are out of reach - then preparing for the future makes sense.

By the way - of course Warner would plan to stick with Warner ......