Teams think we're soft!

[50cent]

I don't have proof, but it just seems to me that teams don't respect us as men. I mentioned this last season after the Washington game. The game when Witten got a cheap shot from LB (Washington) on our sideline and nobody fought back. I was afraid of this and thats why I loved the Carpenter pick, because he plays with fire. What good does that do, when he doesn't play at all. No disrespect to Ellis, because I like him at OLB, but we just have enough guys that play with fire. We have too many nice guys.

Nice Guys-
Ellis
Fergy (comedian)
Roy
Ware
Spears
Canty
Ayodele ?
Tnew
Flo
JJ
Gurode (Haynesworth punked him)
Rivera
Watkins
Bledsoe
and too many others to mentions

Guys with mean streaks all the time -
Burnett
Columbo
Davis
Henry
James
Barber
TO

Guys, we don't have enough mean *** mofos at leadership positions. We are soft and it shows!

[HighTechDave]

part of it is our "non-attack" play calling.

Bill, get out of the way of yourself, and let someone else make the game plan.

Dick Vermeil had the same problem

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!!!!!!! The best defense is a good offense.

don't know who said that originally, but Patton seemed to succeed at that quit well,,, IMHO.

Attack and quit being so damned conservative. Hell, did Jimmy back off? noooooo....

[austintodallas]

Roy is hardly a nice guy on the field. He may not be a vocal fire-em-up leader type but he loves to inflict pain. You got him on the wrong list

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Drew is anything but soft. If anything, he has bigger nuts than anyone else on the team with the pounding he takes. If he were soft adn scared, he would throw the ball away the second he saw a blitz. The fact he holds on to the ball shows he has huge nuts.

[jrumann59]

Gurode got punked, he was on his stomach with people laying on top of him so I guess he got punked. Your ramblings used to be amusing now it just shows you do not know what you are talking about. What would you be saying if the team strung up haynesworth and got suspended for 4 games. Discipline wins out over fire, ask the redskins about their "tough" guy ST.

[superpunk]

I love the thread title, combined with the first sentence. Classic stuff.

I don't think that nice guy image you see on the sideline comes across in between the sidelines. The Chiefs said last year that we were the toughest, most physical team they played all year. You may see how good of guys they are, and think they're soft - but the opposition doesn't.

[Bleu Star]

We are soft. That's why seeing TO on the sidelines getting in faces (ala Michael Irvin) doesn't faze me the way it does those looking for yet another TO story.

[bbgun]

Zimmer's defense is so vanilla he should work for Breyer's.

[jrumann59]

We are soft. That's why seeing TO on the sidelines getting in faces (ala Michael Irvin) doesn't faze me the way it does those looking for yet another TO story.

If anything it shows a lack of vocal leadership. Leading by example only gets you so far, but sometimes you need to put the fire into the belly of others we haven't had that since the triplets, Woody, Haley.

[jackrussell]

If anything is soft, it's a good number of posters on this board.:rolleyes:

I've never seen so many nervous nellies in one place before.

Pitiful.

[50cent]

Roy is hardly a nice guy on the field. He may not be a vocal fire-em-up leader type but he loves to inflict pain. You got him on the wrong list
Roy is soft. Drilling Leftwich in the chest, then getting up saying, "I'm sorry!" is soft to me. Don't apologize for laying someone out during the game, wait until the post-game hand shake. I've been saying this for the longest about him. I like him as a player, but he isn't allows in attack mode as some seem to think he is.

[Bleu Star]

Roy is soft. Drilling Leftwich in the chest, then getting up saying, "I'm sorry!" is soft to me. Don't apologize for laying someone out during the game, wait until the post-game hand shake. I've been saying this for the longest about him. I like him as a player, but he isn't allows in attack mode as some seem to think he is.

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

This from one of our supposed team leaders... yawn.

[50cent]

Drew is anything but soft. If anything, he has bigger nuts than anyone else on the team with the pounding he takes. If he were soft adn scared, he would throw the ball away the second he saw a blitz. The fact he holds on to the ball shows he has huge nuts.Drew is a laid back pretty boy. Showing you can take a hit is not tough, its stupid. He practices with this cut off hallf jersey with a sun-cap stuffed in his shorts. Nothing about that says tough guy. I know getting sacked time after time shows a tough side to a person, but it doesn't make them a "tough guy" ala Porter. Bledsoe is on the right list.

[50cent]

Gurode got punked, he was on his stomach with people laying on top of him so I guess he got punked. Your ramblings used to be amusing now it just shows you do not know what you are talking about. What would you be saying if the team strung up haynesworth and got suspended for 4 games. Discipline wins out over fire, ask the redskins about their "tough" guy ST.Gurode was not under a pile. He got kicked in the head and laid there. Tough guys make a bee-line to Haynesworth without any regards to the consequences. You go to their locker room if you have to. I don't blame any other Cowboys for not getting involved because most were celebrating the TD and didnt see it. Although, if I'm Gurode, I'm fighting any and everyone that gets in the way of me and Haynesworth. Even if I we're under a pile. They would have to get off me sooner or later and all hell is breaking out.

[Dash28]

You ask anyone around the league if Roy is soft, you are a complete moron or have zero football knowledge, take your pick.

[Bleu Star]

You ask anyone around the league if Roy is soft, you are a complete moron or have zero football knowledge, take your pick.


With respect to what 50 said about roy... Roy is a monster of a hitter but I definitely see where 50cent is going with his comment. Roy is such a nice guy. BLECH That gets under my skin too.

You don't see Sean Taylor apologizing for any of his bone jarring hits. I'm sure some of you will say Roy's a "good sport"... That's all well and good but how about some vocal leadership on the field to compliment the nice guy tendencies?

[50cent]

You ask anyone around the league if Roy is soft, you are a complete moron or have zero football knowledge, take your pick.How about you take the poll instead. Ive seem enough to come to my conclusion. How about looking at the Chiefs game last year and that nice shoe string tackle on Tony G. He had a nice clean shot and went for the ankles. Don't get me wrong, I know Roy lays some people out, but he is truly a soft spoken nice guy.

[Murph80]

:bow: :bow: Exactly
Drew is anything but soft. If anything, he has bigger nuts than anyone else on the team with the pounding he takes. If he were soft adn scared, he would throw the ball away the second he saw a blitz. The fact he holds on to the ball shows he has huge nuts.

[superpunk]

How about you take the poll instead. Ive seem enough to come to my conclusion. How about looking at the Chiefs game last year and that nice shoe string tackle on Tony G. He had a nice clean shot and went for the ankles. Don't get me wrong, I know Roy lays some people out, but he is truly a soft spoken nice guy.

Wow....one play....

[50cent]

Wow....one play....
Its a lot more than just that play. Thats just a very small sample.

[superpunk]

Its a lot more than just that play. Thats just a very small sample.

Do you want a litany of plays where Roy knocked people out? Where people say he's one of the hardest hitters in the league?

I haven't found it yet, but one of the teams we faced last year did indeed say we were the toughest, most physically testing team they faced. I believe it was the Chiefs, but I can't find it right now.

Just because they smile doesn't mean they're soft.

[peplaw06]

You don't see Sean Taylor apologizing for any of his bone jarring hits. I'm sure some of you will say Roy's a "good sport"... That's all well and good but how about some vocal leadership on the field to compliment the nice guy tendencies?

Come on guys. Wake up.

You think guys don't fear Roy as a hitter because he apologizes afterwards?? You think if a WR is going over the middle and leaps for the ball and hears Roy's footsteps, he's going to stand in there and not think about being hit by one of the biggest hitters in the league because he's nice about it?

"Oh man, I'm about to get lit up!!! Ahhh, don't worry, he'll apologize for it. It won't hurt as bad."

Do me a favor and think about what you're posting before you post. Too many guys around here have diarrhea of the mouth... or the keyboard as the case may be.

[Bob Sacamano]

punk, yes it was the Chiefs who said that

and remember Roy against the Texans in preseason...

"Y'all f'd up now"

this thread is ridiculous, after all the high-character guys we have put on this team, people just want the Cowboys to be a bunch of thugs, character is so underrated nowadays

[superpunk]

From KC Joyner's book

Arizona found this out in week 8. The Cardinals had already played the Giants, Seahawks and Panthers, so they had been physically tested, but they came through those games with their mental toughness intact. After playing Dallas, however, the Cardinals admitted they were dominated and manhandled by a tougher team. It was so bad that Arizona benched their quarterback and a number of their offensive linemen and blockers after the game.
Detroit also found out how tough playing Dallas can be. The Lioins had earlier battles with tough teams, including a hard-hitting Baltimore squad that tried to intimidate the Lions but came up short. Dallas overpowered the Lions so badly that the Silver and Blue gave up on their head coach during the game.
It wasn’t just the cellar-dwellers who said this. Trent Green of the Chiefs said that he held onto the loss to the Cowboys a bit longer than he would usually hang onto a loss. In addition, the Chiefs defense was so worn out after the game they could barely muster the effort to tackle Tiki Barber the next week. That game wasn’t a physical domination by Dallas, but it was additional evidence that no team was going to come out of a game versus the Cowboys without having their psyche tested.
– Dallas Cowboys team summary, Scientific Football 2006

[austintodallas]

I haven't found it yet, but one of the teams we faced last year did indeed say we were the toughest, most physically testing team they faced. I believe it was the Chiefs, but I can't find it right now.I remember that article as well. Searching for it.

Ah, I see you found it. Nice job.

[50cent]

Do you want a litany of plays where Roy knocked people out? Where people say he's one of the hardest hitters in the league?

I haven't found it yet, but one of the teams we faced last year did indeed say we were the toughest, most physically testing team they faced. I believe it was the Chiefs, but I can't find it right now.

Just because they smile doesn't mean they're soft.I wish people would stop equating big hits into toughness. Having a big hit is mostly a product of having a good angle on a guy and the guy not seeing you coming. You don't have to be tough to make that hit because the other guy takes most of the blow. It not tough to tackle an unsuspecting person. Try taking on Ricky williams in his hey day, or someone bigger than you. Roy makes all of his big hits on guys way smaller than him or when the bigger guy isn't looking. Not tough, but opportunistic.

[peplaw06]

punk, yes it was the Chiefs who said that

and remember Roy against the Texans in preseason...

"Y'all f'd up now"

this thread is ridiculous, after all the high-character guys we have put on this team, people just want the Cowboys to be a bunch of thugs, character is so underrated nowadays

Summer... how do we join MADP?? We need a group and our own sig... It'll be like GROZ, but better and more influential.

[50cent]

punk, yes it was the Chiefs who said that

and remember Roy against the Texans in preseason...

"Y'all f'd up now"

this thread is ridiculous, after all the high-character guys we have put on this team, people just want the Cowboys to be a bunch of thugs, character is so underrated nowadays
Thats right, we all want a bunch of thugs. How about a bunch of Brian Dawkins and Ed Reeds. Guys that have good character, but are tough.

[peplaw06]

I wish people would stop equating big hits into toughness. Having a big hit is mostly a product of having a good angle on a guy and the guy not seeing you coming. You don't have to be tough to make that hit because the other guy takes most of the blow. It not tough to tackle an unsuspecting person. Try taking on Ricky williams in his hey day, or someone bigger than you. Roy makes all of his big hits on guys way smaller than him or when the bigger guy isn't looking. Not tough, but opportunistic.

How about this, I'll say our team is tough because Joyner says so in his article and has actually interviewed NFL players over taking your word that we're soft.

[superpunk]

I wish people would stop equating big hits into toughness. Having a big hit is mostly a product of having a good angle on a guy and the guy not seeing you coming. You don't have to be tough to make that hit because the other guy takes most of the blow. It not tough to tackle an unsuspecting person. Try taking on Ricky williams in his hey day, or someone bigger than you. Roy makes all of his big hits on guys way smaller than him or when the bigger guy isn't looking. Not tough, but opportunistic.

Roy Williams - 6-0, 229
Shaun Alexander - 5-11 - 225. Roy sent him backwards - straight up.

[austintodallas]

punk, yes it was the Chiefs who said that

and remember Roy against the Texans in preseason...

"Y'all f'd up now"

this thread is ridiculous, after all the high-character guys we have put on this team, people just want the Cowboys to be a bunch of thugs, character is so underrated nowadaysAfter which he and Keith Davis proceeded to absolutely jack up every one of their skill players.

[peplaw06]

Thats right, we all want a bunch of thugs. How about a bunch of Brian Dawkins and Ed Reeds. Guys that have good character, but are tough.

What indicates to you that Dawk and Reed are "tough," and Roy is not?

[Bob Sacamano]

Summer... how do we join MADP?? We need a group and our own sig... It'll be like GROZ, but better and more influential.

if you feel as strongly against drunk posting as me, I'm talking zealot type, you're in

[Bob Sacamano]

what's that you say 50?

blah blah blah? what?

[peplaw06]

if you feel as strongly against drunk posting as me, I'm talking zealot type, you're in

Well I wasn't a zealot type until the past 24 hours... I've been on a kind of a tirade lately.:D

[Bob Sacamano]

After which he and Keith Davis proceeded to absolutely jack up every one of their skill players.

the notion that Roy isn't tough, despite many calling him one of the most feared hitters in the game, is ridiculous

and trying to seperate hitting from tough is even more ridiculous

but hey, he's named himself after a person dumb enough to get himself shot 9 times

[Bob Sacamano]

Well I wasn't a zealot type until the past 24 hours... I've been on a kind of a tirade lately.:D

well you're in anyways

just put the acronym in your sig

[50cent]

What indicates to you that Dawk and Reed are "tough," and Roy is not?Maybe the fact that Ive seen these guys take on guy twice their size and not go low for the ankles. I have yet to see roy meet someone in the hole bigger than him or take on a runner head up. Thats tough! Guys like Porter, Lewis, Derrick Brooks. These are guys that don't back down from a confrontation. Not thugs.

[superpunk]

How about Todd Heap. 6-5 255. Roy destroyed him in the pro-bowl. I believe he even let up a little on that one.

HOw about 5-11 221 Kevin Jones - who Roy absolutely trucked when he tried to block him?

Check him out destroying the "unsupecting tiny guy" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Q9nq8MCqs&mode=related&search=)

[BlueStar22]

Drilling Leftwich in the chest, then getting up saying, "I'm sorry!" is soft to me.so the fact that it was an illegal hit where he was penalized doesn't mean anything to you?

[Deep_Freeze]

It funny, there are probably 20 guys on that list, yet 85% of the posts in this trend is about Roy.

God, we really are really passionate when it comes to critcizing Roy.

As for the list, I would say "soft" is the wrong term. I have seen it said, and it is true, we just have alot of guys that seem to want to win the "Sportsmanship Award" on D. There is noone on our D close to Ray Lewis as far as an emotional leader.

[Bleu Star]

Come on guys. Wake up.

You think guys don't fear Roy as a hitter because he apologizes afterwards?? You think if a WR is going over the middle and leaps for the ball and hears Roy's footsteps, he's going to stand in there and not think about being hit by one of the biggest hitters in the league because he's nice about it?

"Oh man, I'm about to get lit up!!! Ahhh, don't worry, he'll apologize for it. It won't hurt as bad."

Do me a favor and think about what you're posting before you post. Too many guys around here have diarrhea of the mouth... or the keyboard as the case may be.

Sure. Ok. :bow: :rolleyes:

[Dash28]

Please give your reasoning behind you saying Reed is tougher then Roy, i'm definately waiting to hear this crap, which is all you bring.

[Bob Sacamano]

God, we really are really passionate when it comes to critizing Roy.

you keep saying this

WE GET IT!!

and what's wrong with trying to "win the sportsmanship award"? what I hear after every loss gets more ridiculous each time

[50cent]

How about Todd Heap. 6-5 255. Roy destroyed him in the pro-bowl. I believe he even let up a little on that one.

HOw about 5-11 221 Kevin Jones - who Roy absolutely trucked when he tried to block him?

Check him out destroying the "unsupecting tiny guy" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Q9nq8MCqs&mode=related&search=)
Two examples of defenseless guys. THATS NOT TOUGH! The only example anyone has given to me about Roy being tough was a pre-season game vs. the Texans. What other situation has Roy been in to show how tough he is? None. Don't give me defenseless guy examples.

[Bleu Star]

we just have alot of guys that seem to want to win the "Sportsmanship Award" on D. There is noone on our D close to Ray Lewis as far as an emotional leader.

Sadly you have :hammer:

This isn't necessarily a completely bad thing. I just personally wish I saw more nastiness out there on the field... Save the tea and crumpets for your personal time.

[50cent]

It funny, there are probably 20 guys on that list, yet 85% of the posts in this trend is about Roy.

God, we really are really passionate when it comes to critcizing Roy.

As for the list, I would say "soft" is the wrong term. I have seen it said, and it is true, we just have alot of guys that seem to want to win the "Sportsmanship Award" on D. There is noone on our D close to Ray Lewis as far as an emotional leader.
Hey, we have a winner!

[superpunk]

Or, we could just watch Michael robinson truck the great Brian Dawkins, who ytou're so envious of. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOEJcFfnL48)

Yeah, that was just a few games ago. Allowed a TD. If you recall, Michael Robinson was also a QB at Penn State.

On the other hand, we've seen Roy meet 6-4, 264 pound Brandon Jacobs in the hole, on the goalline, stand him up, and knock the ball out.

Keep being envious.

[Dash28]

You have just proven that you don't watch the actual games and especially Roy if you haven't seen him take on anyone bigger then him head on. I could go on all night listing people he has destroyed, one quick example is the head on forced fumble at the goaline with Jacobs, which is a good 15-20lbs heavier. Just stop now and quit digging the grave.

[peplaw06]

Two examples of defenseless guys. THATS NOT TOUGH! The only example anyone has given to me about Roy being tough was a pre-season game vs. the Texans. What other situation has Roy been in to show how tough he is? None. Don't give me defenseless guy examples.

What a joke. A blocking running back is defenseless now?? :laugh2:

[superpunk]

Two examples of defenseless guys. THATS NOT TOUGH! The only example anyone has given to me about Roy being tough was a pre-season game vs. the Texans. What other situation has Roy been in to show how tough he is? None. Don't give me defenseless guy examples.

Yeah. Kevin Jones was absolutely defenseless as he sat there, waiting to block Roy. Providing we define "defenseless" as looking straight at him and waiting to block him.

English was never my forte.

[Deep_Freeze]

you keep saying this

WE GET IT!!

and what's wrong with trying to "win the sportsmanship award"? what I hear after every loss gets more ridiculous each time

I keep saying it, cause well, its true.

Yes, summer I know me saying this is old to you, after all, you know we spent all night one night arguing about fire, lol.

That night, I thought I finally got you to see it. Maybe you forgot. ;)

[Bob Sacamano]

Providing we define "defenseless"

defenseless would be 50cent right about now

[superpunk]

Wahhhhh...sportsmanship.

I don't understand how people are holding onto this "not tough" idea. Look, 50 - you didn't think your clever plan the whole way through. The "thugs" you want are just as sportsmanlike as anyone on our team. You hit the guy in the mouth, and go on. If you'd rather have guys showboating, making a big deal out of a 2 yard tackle for loss, creating stupid dances, etc. say that. But your idea that this team is soft is ridiculous. There's no evidence to support it (as you CLEARLY stated in your OP) and there is TONS of evidence to the contrary.

Hint: It's ok to back off a stance when you realize you're hopelessly out in left field.

[Bob Sacamano]

I keep saying it, cause well, its true.

Yes, summer I know me saying this is old to you, after all, you know we spent all night one night arguing about fire, lol.

That night, I thought I finally got you to see it. Maybe you forgot. ;)

guess I did forget, cuz I have no idea what you'te talking about

[Dash28]

:hammer: superpunk

[50cent]

Or, we could just watch Michael robinson truck the great Brian Dawkins, who ytou're so envious of. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOEJcFfnL48)

Yeah, that was just a few games ago. Allowed a TD. If you recall, Michael Robinson was also a QB at Penn State.

On the other hand, we've seen Roy meet 6-4, 264 pound Brandon Jacobs in the hole, on the goalline, stand him up, and knock the ball out.

Keep being envious.Are you serious? You want to compare Robinson going full seem at Dawkins and Jacobs pitter pattering his feet as head up for Roy. Get real! Thas exactly what I'm talking about with Dawkins, putting his head in there and mixing it up when a guy can see you coming. Four people had already hit Jacobs before Roy came in. JAcobs momentum was already stopped. The fact tha Dawkins came back in the game is tough. You guys want knock Dawkins for getting truck, but don't see that fact that Roy shys away from truck hits. Show me a video of Roy stopping someone one on one when the guy has momentum and isn't a WR.

[jimmy40]

Thats right, we all want a bunch of thugs. How about a bunch of Brian Dawkins and Ed Reeds. Guys that have good character, but are tough.
Good grief 50, RW is plenty tough he just picks the worst times to take 7th grade B team angles on plays.

[50cent]

Yeah. Kevin Jones was absolutely defenseless as he sat there, waiting to block Roy. Providing we define "defenseless" as looking straight at him and waiting to block him.

English was never my forte.
Show me where Jones is coming forward to deliver a blow. Give it a rest, you guys don't want to see Roy as opportunistic and not tough.

[austintodallas]

On the other hand, we've seen Roy meet 6-4, 264 pound Brandon Jacobs in the hole, on the goalline, stand him up, and knock the ball out.Something like this...

http://home.austin.rr.com/nflpencil/RoyWilliams2.jpg

[Dash28]

I hope you don't believe the crap spewing from your mouth. I will take nothing away from Dawkins, a true tough guy. But to say Roy is not tough and soft is redicilous. It's sad at how stupid you are when it comes to football or you are just a complete troll, which is it?

[Deep_Freeze]

guess I did forget, cuz I have no idea what you'te talking about

You have a short memory. I hate to even say the names in this thread in fear of faning the fire, lol, but it was in one of those Merriman vs. Ware threads.

One plays with a fire, emotion, and intensity that infects the entire team.

One doesn't.

I hope you can fill in the blanks. The firey, emotional, intense one is in San Diego. If you playedf football, you would see the difference easily.

[50cent]

Something like this...

http://home.austin.rr.com/nflpencil/RoyWilliams2.jpgOnce again, Jacobs had no momentum. Thats no where near what Dawkins did against Robinson. Jacobs comes full steam ahead at Roy with no obstacles, Roy goes for his ankles. Guaranteed!

[superpunk]

Show me where Jones is coming forward to deliver a blow. Give it a rest, you guys don't want to see Roy as opportunistic and not tough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbla_1PoN-c

Roy meeting Ladell Betts in the hole and obliterating him. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Q9nq8MCqs)

Oh noes!!!!! Not again! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kopwbqmvp4)

Tai Streets...just go down! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13vaxUgAODo)

[peplaw06]

50cent wants 11 Albert Haynesworths running around the field on defense. He's tough and unsportsmanlike.

[50cent]

You have a short memory. I hate to even say the names in this thread in fear of faning the fire, lol, but it was in one of those Merriman vs. Ware threads.

One plays with a fire, emotion, and intensity that infects the entire team.

One doesn't.

I hope you can fill in the blanks. The firey, emotional, intense one is in San Diego. If you playedf football, you would see the difference easily.Watch out, incoming! But true. Hines Ward tough, Terry Glenn nice guy. Keyshawn tough, P Crayton nice guy. And I don't like Keyshawn. Kruetz tough, Gurode nice guy. Columbo tough, Flo nice guy. Get the picture guys.

[Dash28]

The only guarantee coming from you is how pathetic your claim is. Like I said earlier Dawkins is tough but I will give anything to let the two get a run and hit head on then you come back telling me Roy is soft.

[Bob Sacamano]

You have a short memory. I hate to even say the names in this thread in fear of faning the fire, lol, but it was in one of those Merriman vs. Ware threads.

One plays with a fire, emotion, and intensity that infects the entire team.

One doesn't.

I hope you can fill in the blanks. The firey, emotional, intense one is in San Diego. If you playedf football, you would see the difference easily.

oh yeah, the trait that isn't essential

[peplaw06]

Once again, Jacobs had no momentum. Thats no where near what Dawkins did against Robinson. Jacobs comes full steam ahead at Roy with no obstacles, Roy goes for his ankles. Guaranteed!

No momentum?? Let's see... Roy met him in the hole he was supposed to run into on the goalline. I guess instead of him getting the ball handed to him 5-7 yards behind the line, Manning just handed him the ball in the hole while he was standing there.

[Bob Sacamano]

No momentum?? Let's see... Roy met him in the hole he was supposed to run into on the goalline. I guess instead of him getting the ball handed to him 5-7 yards behind the line, Manning just handed him the ball in the hole while he was standing there.

love the sig

50cent :lmao2:

[J-DOG]

Roy is hardly a nice guy on the field. He may not be a vocal fire-em-up leader type but he loves to inflict pain. You got him on the wrong list
Agree.
Ask anyone who plays offense in the NFC east divsion if they think Roy is to nice.
I think you could also put Gurode on the list of players who play with fire now.

[50cent]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbla_1PoN-c

Roy meeting Ladell Betts in the hole and obliterating him. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9Q9nq8MCqs)

Oh noes!!!!! Not again! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kopwbqmvp4)

Tai Streets...just go down! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13vaxUgAODo)

First video, not a head up play. Jones coming off a play action. Disregard!
Second video, Rb going east/west and not downhill head up with roy. Disregard.
Third video, Good hit. Count it.
Last video, Wr. Nuff said.

one outta four.

[Bob Sacamano]

how about Roy pile-driving Pat Ramsey?

[Deep_Freeze]

I wish we would just let go of just trying to be right, take off the blue and gray glasses and see it like it is.

"Soft" is the wrong term, let it go.

We just don't have an intense, firey, emotional leader that alot of top defenses have. Ray Lewis personality type.

Not a real bad thing, just something we don't have on D. But on the positive side, we have alot of nice guys who are good in their community......

My dad (who also played alot of football) always says, "You need a bad egg". Everytime we watch a game, he always points out the bad egg. The one dude you wouldn't want to run into in a dark alley. Seems to me, if I met anyone on our D in a dark alley, they would give me some spare change.

[superpunk]

B-dawk making a great tackle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P25MXRbu1cs)

[Bob Sacamano]

take off the blue and gray glasses and see it like it is.

:confused: I don't see how anyone's being a homer here

[superpunk]

First video, not a head up play. Jones coming off a play action. Disregard!
Second video, Rb going east/west and not downhill head up with roy. Disregard.
Third video, Good hit. Count it.
Last video, Wr. Nuff said.

one outta four.

http://www.freewebs.com/ilana/images/fingers%20in%20ears.jpg = You.

I'm amazed you can still type.

[Rack Bauer]

part of it is our "non-attack" play calling.

Bill, get out of the way of yourself, and let someone else make the game plan.

Dick Vermeil had the same problem

ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!!!!!!! The best defense is a good offense.

don't know who said that originally, but Patton seemed to succeed at that quit well,,, IMHO.

Attack and quit being so damned conservative. Hell, did Jimmy back off? noooooo....

You obviously have no clue whatsoever.


If anything we were TOO aggressive last game. How many times did they go 5-wide? We were running the ball well, yet didn't seem to run it that often.


We should of ran the ball up their butts and FORCED them to quit doubling our WRs.

[Vertigo_17]

Watch out, incoming! But true. Hines Ward tough, Terry Glenn nice guy. Keyshawn tough, P Crayton nice guy. And I don't like Keyshawn. Kruetz tough, Gurode nice guy. Columbo tough, Flo nice guy. Get the picture guys.

so at least we have 1 tough guy in Colombo? :confused:

[superpunk]

I guess I could repost this....since it's obvious noone read it the first time.

Arizona found this out in week 8. The Cardinals had already played the Giants, Seahawks and Panthers, so they had been physically tested, but they came through those games with their mental toughness intact. After playing Dallas, however, the Cardinals admitted they were dominated and manhandled by a tougher team. It was so bad that Arizona benched their quarterback and a number of their offensive linemen and blockers after the game.

Detroit also found out how tough playing Dallas can be. The Lioins had earlier battles with tough teams, including a hard-hitting Baltimore squad that tried to intimidate the Lions but came up short. Dallas overpowered the Lions so badly that the Silver and Blue gave up on their head coach during the game.

It wasn’t just the cellar-dwellers who said this. Trent Green of the Chiefs said that he held onto the loss to the Cowboys a bit longer than he would usually hang onto a loss. In addition, the Chiefs defense was so worn out after the game they could barely muster the effort to tackle Tiki Barber the next week. That game wasn’t a physical domination by Dallas, but it was additional evidence that no team was going to come out of a game versus the Cowboys without having their psyche tested.
– Dallas Cowboys team summary, Scientific Football 2006

[Deep_Freeze]

:confused: I don't see how anyone's being a homer here

Blindly arguing a point just cause he is a Cowboy is being a homer.

Everyone knows our D is a good candidate for "Sportsmans of the year" Wish we had a bad egg.

[Rack Bauer]

I guess I could repost this....since it's obvious noone read it the first time.

Arizona found this out in week 8. The Cardinals had already played the Giants, Seahawks and Panthers, so they had been physically tested, but they came through those games with their mental toughness intact. After playing Dallas, however, the Cardinals admitted they were dominated and manhandled by a tougher team. It was so bad that Arizona benched their quarterback and a number of their offensive linemen and blockers after the game.

Detroit also found out how tough playing Dallas can be. The Lioins had earlier battles with tough teams, including a hard-hitting Baltimore squad that tried to intimidate the Lions but came up short. Dallas overpowered the Lions so badly that the Silver and Blue gave up on their head coach during the game.

It wasn’t just the cellar-dwellers who said this. Trent Green of the Chiefs said that he held onto the loss to the Cowboys a bit longer than he would usually hang onto a loss. In addition, the Chiefs defense was so worn out after the game they could barely muster the effort to tackle Tiki Barber the next week. That game wasn’t a physical domination by Dallas, but it was additional evidence that no team was going to come out of a game versus the Cowboys without having their psyche tested.
– Dallas Cowboys team summary, Scientific Football 2006


:bow:

[Bob Sacamano]

Blindly arguing a point just cause he is a Cowboy is being a homer.

no it's not, because non-Cowboy fans say that Roy is a mean S.O.B.

sometimes I too wish we had a bad egg, but that is furthest down the list for me, we got much bigger, tangible, things to worry about that affect games even more

if you play good football, execute, limit mistakes, you can win just as many games as showboating and stomping on people will

[Vertigo_17]

I don't have proof, but it just seems to me that teams don't respect us as men. I mentioned this last season after the Washington game. The game when Witten got a cheap shot from LB (Washington) on our sideline and nobody fought back. I was afraid of this and thats why I loved the Carpenter pick, because he plays with fire. What good does that do, when he doesn't play at all. No disrespect to Ellis, because I like him at OLB, but we just have enough guys that play with fire. We have too many nice guys.

Nice Guys-
Ellis
Fergy (comedian)
Roy
Ware
Spears
Canty
Ayodele ?
Tnew
Flo
JJ
Gurode (Haynesworth punked him)
Rivera
Watkins
Bledsoe
and too many others to mentions

Guys with mean streaks all the time -
Burnett
Columbo
Davis
Henry
James
Barber
TO

Guys, we don't have enough mean *** mofos at leadership positions. We are soft and it shows!

Yeah Ferguson is a real softie. Taking on two OL on every single play (ever watch what goes on the the trenches) is really weak. Just because they don't act like thugs or over-celebrate every tackle doesn't make them soft.

They just need to focus on the scheme and making the play? That's what needs to be fixed.

[peplaw06]

Blindly arguing a point just cause he is a Cowboy is being a homer.

Everyone knows our D is a good candidate for "Sportsmans of the year" Wish we had a bad egg.

I don't see where you're getting this idea that all of our guys are nice guys out there on the field. Who brianwashed you into believing that?

Is it because you don't see our LBs doing a bullrush dance when they make a tackle after the RB gains 20 yards? Is it because you don't hear wailing and gnashing of teeth? Is it that they actually are good guys off the field?

You used the fire and emotion line to criticize Ware, well I remember two plays specifically where he's shown some emotion this season. the sack on Brunell and the tackle on Reggie Bush in the flats.

Then you try to translate that lack of fire into the rest of the defense when I don't see it. Unless you think they have to dance and celebrate to be emotional.

[Bob Sacamano]

I don't see where you're getting this idea that all of our guys are nice guys out there on the field. Who brianwashed you into believing that?

it's something he sees on his TV screen

[Rack Bauer]

I don't see where you're getting this idea that all of our guys are nice guys out there on the field. Who brianwashed you into believing that?

Is it because you don't see our LBs doing a bullrush dance when they make a tackle after the RB gains 20 yards? Is it because you don't hear wailing and gnashing of teeth? Is it that they actually are good guys off the field?

You used the fire and emotion line to criticize Ware, well I remember two plays specifically where he's shown some emotion this season. the sack on Brunell and the tackle on Reggie Bush in the flats.

Then you try to translate that lack of fire into the rest of the defense when I don't see it. Unless you think they have to dance and celebrate to be emotional.


:hammer:

[Deep_Freeze]

no it's not, because non-Cowboy fans say that Roy is a mean S.O.B.

sometimes I too wish we had a bad egg, but that is furthest down the list for me, we got much bigger, tangible, things to worry about that affect games even more

if you play good football, execute, limit mistakes, you can win just as many games as showboating and stomping on people will

You know I haven't said anything about stepping on people, that is too far of course.

I think you understand what I am saying, and I understand that you are saying we have more important things to worry about. My only holdup with that thought is that when things look bleak, that is when you need that emotional leader to step up and fire the team up again.

There are countless times Irvin did this for us, and he wasn't even on D. I wish TO would do it in a more constructive way, he has fire, but he criticizes people too harshly, instead of encouraging them.

Do we need one?? Well, I know we don't have a visible one on D, maybe there is one in the huddle that we don't hear. Least I hope there is.

[Bob Sacamano]

My only holdup with that thought is that when things look bleak, that is when you need that emotional leader to step up and fire the team up again.

wouldn't it just be better if we were a better team?

[Deep_Freeze]

wouldn't it just be better if we were a better team?

I believe having that leader is what would make us a better team on D.

[Bob Sacamano]

I believe having that leader is what would make us a better team on D.

but like you said, what if that leader is already in the huddle? sometimes being a leader is just about acting upon it, saying very few words, people just know, and respond readily

[Sasquatch]

I love the thread title, combined with the first sentence. Classic stuff.



:hammer:

My sentiments exactly.

[Deep_Freeze]

I don't see where you're getting this idea that all of our guys are nice guys out there on the field. Who brianwashed you into believing that?

Is it because you don't see our LBs doing a bullrush dance when they make a tackle after the RB gains 20 yards? Is it because you don't hear wailing and gnashing of teeth? Is it that they actually are good guys off the field?

You used the fire and emotion line to criticize Ware, well I remember two plays specifically where he's shown some emotion this season. the sack on Brunell and the tackle on Reggie Bush in the flats.

Then you try to translate that lack of fire into the rest of the defense when I don't see it. Unless you think they have to dance and celebrate to be emotional.

Football is a game of emotion. If you don't know that, you have never played football on a high level. The Saints are proving this thoery, they don't have alot of talent, but emotion has carried them.

Why would the Hogs come in and destroy the number 2 team in the nation at Auburn, after getting killed by USC.

Emotion.

Pro football is just a job to some of these guys, really. But if you stir up some of their emotions, then you can be the Saints.

[Bob Sacamano]

btw Deep

TO was shouting encouragement on the sidelines, isn't that what Michael Irvin did?

[Deep_Freeze]

btw Deep

TO was shouting encouragement on the sidelines, isn't that what Michael Irvin did?

TO is my boy, but the problem with TO is not all of what is going to come out of his mouth going to be positive.

Irvin would demand the ball, and such, but he would never degrade the people around him.

TO will demand the ball, and he will make sure you know who he thinks is at fault and who is horrible in his opinion. TO is just too honest and candid sometimes, which can hurt more than help. Sometimes you have to focus on the few positive things they do to get them to be better.

TO will put the knife in and twist it, lol. Irvin was not that way.

[Bob Sacamano]

notice I said "encouragement"? he was trying to fire the O up, just like our boy Mike used to do

well at least we got one fiery, emotional player

[Deep_Freeze]

notice I said "encouragement"? he was trying to fire the O up, just like our boy Mike used to do

well at least we got one fiery, emotional player

Yeah, I just know with TO, if things are going bad, he might say something he shouldn't. Plus, with all of the "crazy" talk, it lessens the effect of him doing this. In other words, people tune him out cause they think he is nuts.

Course, as that stuff fades and he gets closer to his teamates, they will listen more.

If you notice, when the team was together in that circle with hands in the middle, TO was the one talking. "This ain't about me, its about us".

That is a place where the emotional leader of a team is the one that talks. Irvin and sometimes Emmitt did that all the time while they were here.

[peplaw06]

Football is a game of emotion. If you don't know that, you have never played football on a high level. The Saints are proving this thoery, they don't have alot of talent, but emotion has carried them.

Why would the Hogs come in and destroy the number 2 team in the nation at Auburn, after getting killed by USC.

Emotion.

Pro football is just a job to some of these guys, really. But if you stir up some of their emotions, then you can be the Saints.

You didn't answer the question... How do you know that the Cowboys D doesn't play with emotion? IMO you think that because they're not dancing out there after a tackle.

Did the Hogs dance on the field when beating Auburn, is that why you say they play with emotion? If not, what did they do that the Cowboys don't?

[Bob Sacamano]

there's always a risk w/ TO, but I think he's being genuine

how long that will last? one only knows, but I will enjoy a behaved TO as long as I can...just hope he can start making a bigger impact, for whatever that reason is

[Deep_Freeze]

You didn't answer the question... How do you know that the Cowboys D doesn't play with emotion? IMO you think that because they're not dancing out there after a tackle.

Did the Hogs dance on the field when beating Auburn, is that why you say they play with emotion? If not, what did they do that the Cowboys don't?

Nutt ran up and started leading the band, singing the fight song afterward, and jumping up and down all game. Its contigeous, the rest of the team looking fired up. But that is college, its different, you don't have to have that extreme. Side note, could you picture Bill doing that............nevermind, don't, lol.

The reason why I think we aren't playing with much is cause we aren't playing well below our talent level. When that happens, alot of times, you are sleepwalking. Sure, I don't have a crystal ball, I don't KNOW for 100% certainity, noone does, but I do think it could be part of it. My point is they "look" like a team going through the motions.

Other things that could cause you to play below your talent level, well, coaching. It can be easily said that a defense takes on the personality of their coach. Maybe if we had a firey DC, then the defense would play with more fire.

It is just a feeling I get from watching the game. Like guys are just punching the clock, doing their job, and going home. That is a bit extreme, but you can see my point. Maybe it is the players, maybe it is the coach, but it is probably some of both.

there's always a risk w/ TO, but I think he's being genuine

how long that will last? one only knows, but I will enjoy a behaved TO as long as I can...just hope he can start making a bigger impact, for whatever that reason is

Agreed. He will behave ok, I just hope we win, to make sure he is ok. There are only two things that mess him up, losing and not getting paid (with him, that money means respect).

[peplaw06]

Nutt ran up and started leading the band, singing the fight song afterward, and jumping up and down all game. Its contigeous, the rest of the team looking fired up. But that is college, its different, you don't have to have that extreme. Side note, could you picture Bill doing that............nevermind, don't, lol. So you want Parcells leading the band???;)

The reason why I think we aren't playing with much is cause we aren't playing well below our talent level. When that happens, alot of times, you are sleepwalking. Sure, I don't have a crystal ball, I don't KNOW for 100% certainity, noone does, but I do think it could be part of it. My point is they "look" like a team going through the motions.

Other things that could cause you to play below your talent level, well, coaching. It can be easily said that a defense takes on the personality of their coach. Maybe if we had a firey DC, then the defense would play with more fire.

It is just a feeling I get from watching the game. Like guys are just punching the clock, doing their job, and going home. That is a bit extreme, but you can see my point. Maybe it is the players, maybe it is the coach, but it is probably some of both.I guess you see things the way you want to see them to some extent, I do the same thing. but statistically speaking our defense has been pretty good. They were really good before the Philly game. And I have confidence they will be good at the end of the year.

I couldn't even think of a scenario in my mind where it looks like guys are just going through the motions. Our D came out in the last game and kept us in it early on, when we could have been down 21-0 real quick... Westbrook fumbled... they were driving there. They gave up the one TD, and then they held Philly to a FG after they got the ball inside our 15. Saved us 11 points in the first 5 minutes. Doesn't sound like a D going through the motions, but I guess you're seeing something different.

[LaTunaNostra]

A+ Really hilarious thread.

Until now I never understood that being 'tough' and being 'a nice guy' were mutually exclusive.

We got one of the most explosive hitters in the past generation whose instinctually precise angles into players merely devastate them... a player whose hits are so perfectly plotted as to appear to defy the laws of physics...a player who's laid waste to so many opponents in sometimes problematical ways that they name "rules" after him.

But because the last time he exploded a full force bulls-eye blitz into a quarterback the size of a linebacker, hitting him so hard you could see Leftwich literally jacknife, and hear the 'ooomph' of air sucked out of his lungs....he followed up with a "sorry", Williams loses his 'toughness' credentials.

And we've got a dt two gapping some of the fiercest mofos in the league...but because he's got a sense of humour, he's wussified.

Oooookaaaayyy.

I think the definition of toughness needs elaborating.

For a pro football player, it is first and foremost playing with and in pain, no whining, no gold bricking, no looking for practice outs no matter how hurt.

Secondly, toughness is about doing the job, taking on the assignment and completing it..it's about discipline, stamina, and the ability to use every ounce of strength left unsapped when you're dog weary. It's about not letting your teamates down - THAT'S 'toughness'.

Toughness is about principles and reliability, about self-sacrifice and teamwork. About subjugating the ego to the greater good.

Toughness is not about macho posturing, unsportsmanlike behavior, trash talk, WWF style grimacing, or ever, ever about losing control. It's about self-control, because it takes a great deal of self-discipline to act like a man in physical, heated, often dirty combat.

Everyone wants to see 'mean streaks' in a player. But a mean streak is just will to excell, and I don't think that's lacking on this team. Not one bit.

Some players do appear superficially 'tougher' than others, but scratch the surface and you realize not one of them would have survived in the league one day if he weren't the epitome of tough.

BTW, I was worried when we lost Dan Campbell, because to me he was the face of true toughness in a football player (remember when he tore the Lisfranc...he just kept playing and said later. "yeah, I felt something snap"), but Witten and Fasano...they're more than capable of taking on the mantle.

So are the rest of them..or they wouldn't be here.

[peplaw06]

Nice post LTN...

too bad 50cent won't listen

[jrumann59]

Hey 50 cent since I put my .02 in earlier and you haven't really supported your statement can I have my .48 in change now.

[Deep_Freeze]

So you want Parcells leading the band???;)

I guess you see things the way you want to see them to some extent, I do the same thing. but statistically speaking our defense has been pretty good. They were really good before the Philly game. And I have confidence they will be good at the end of the year.

I couldn't even think of a scenario in my mind where it looks like guys are just going through the motions. Our D came out in the last game and kept us in it early on, when we could have been down 21-0 real quick... Westbrook fumbled... they were driving there. They gave up the one TD, and then they held Philly to a FG after they got the ball inside our 15. Saved us 11 points in the first 5 minutes. Doesn't sound like a D going through the motions, but I guess you're seeing something different.

We aren't seeing it too differently, do you think this D has played up to its potential?? I don't think so, whether it is coaching or the players, it is probably both. Our DC is sitting and waiting for the offense to make a mistake, instead of causing the mistake.

That does make the team have a tendency to look tame.

A+ Really hilarious thread.

Until now I never understood that being 'tough' and being 'a nice guy' were mutually exclusive.

We got one of the most explosive hitters in the past generation whose instinctually precise angles into players merely devastate them... a player whose hits are so perfectly plotted as to appear to defy the laws of physics...a player who's laid waste to so many opponents in sometimes problematical ways that they name "rules" after him.

But because the last time he exploded a full force bulls-eye blitz into a quarterback the size of a linebacker, hitting him so hard you could see Leftwich literally jacknife, and hear the 'ooomph' of air sucked out of his lungs....he followed up with a "sorry", Williams loses his 'toughness' credentials.

And we've got a dt two gapping some of the fiercest mofos in the league...but because he's got a sense of humour, he's wussified.

Oooookaaaayyy.

I think the definition of toughness needs elaborating.

For a pro football player, it is first and foremost playing with and in pain, no whining, no gold bricking, no looking for practice outs no matter how hurt.

Secondly, toughness is about doing the job, taking on the assignment and completing it..it's about discipline, stamina, and the ability to use every ounce of strength left unsapped when you're dog weary. It's about not letting your teamates down - THAT'S 'toughness'.

Toughness is about principles and reliability, about self-sacrifice and teamwork. About subjugating the ego to the greater good.

Toughness is not about macho posturing, unsportsmanlike behavior, trash talk, WWF style grimacing, or ever, ever about losing control. It's about self-control, because it takes a great deal of self-discipline to act like a man in physical, heated, often dirty combat.

Everyone wants to see 'mean streaks' in a player. But a mean streak is just will to excell, and I don't think that's lacking on this team. Not one bit.

Some players do appear superficially 'tougher' than others, but scratch the surface and you realize not one of them would have survived in the league one day if he weren't the epitome of tough.

BTW, I was worried when we lost Dan Campbell, because to me he was the face of true toughness in a football player (remember when he tore the Lisfranc...he just kept playing and said later. "yeah, I felt something snap"), but Witten and Fasano...they're more than capable of taking on the mantle.

So are the rest of them..or they wouldn't be here.

Nice Post.

Now how can I listen to a person whose favorite player is Terry Glenn, preach about toughness..........just kidding, lol, she is tough.......sometimes ;)

All kidding aside, I still think some of you are pointing to the wrong terms. 50 cent put words out there such as "soft", or not "tough", but those are not the correct words, and I don't think they have much merit. What I think he means is what I'm talking about, an emotional leader.

A guy that wears his passion on his sleeve. A guy that pumps you up watching him, and you are just sitting on your couch. A guy that makes you want to punch a hole in your table, opps, sorry Rack, that was done out of anger right?

Irvin did that. There are a few that do it in this league, and alot of them have a tendency to be leading some of the top defenses. That is not a coincidence.

[peplaw06]

We aren't seeing it too differently, do you think this D has played up to its potential?? I don't think so, whether it is coaching or the players, it is probably both. Our DC is sitting and waiting for the offense to make a mistake, instead of causing the mistake.

That does make the team have a tendency to look tame. There's no doubt our D could have played better against Philly. No question. We gave up a lot of big plays. But you're making it sound like we got a bunch of sleepwalking zombies out there, and that's a bit of an exaggeration.





All kidding aside, I still think some of you are pointing to the wrong terms. 50 cent put words out there such as "soft", or not "tough", but those are not the correct words, and I don't think they have much merit. What I think he means is what I'm talking about, an emotional leader.
Nope, 50 doesn't get a pass... he put the word soft in the title, then said other teams don't respect our players as men. And you don't have to be emotional to be tough.

That's not what you're talking about. Not saying I agree with you, but at least you have some kind of an argument.

50 accused Roy of being soft because he's a nice guy, and that's just ludicrous.

[HighTechDave]

we are soft, at least at the COACHING position.

attack, then when you get tired, ATTACK again.

Bill is a conservative old school wimp. Hammer 'em dammit!!!!!

gawd

[Deep_Freeze]

There's no doubt our D could have played better against Philly. No question. We gave up a lot of big plays. But you're making it sound like we got a bunch of sleepwalking zombies out there, and that's a bit of an exaggeration.

One thing about it though, our DC could cause our guys to look like zombies out there, instead of agressively going after the QB and putting pressure on the opposition in general. But yes, sleepwalking zombies is a bit of an exaggeration.

Guess I would like more visual fire, like Junior Seau used to bring to the Chargers. Those type of guys look so intense that it contagiously perks up everyone on the team. Football is a violent sport, sometimes you need a balls to the wall mentality out there for a D.

Nope, 50 doesn't get a pass... he put the word soft in the title, then said other teams don't respect our players as men. And you don't have to be emotional to be tough.

That's not what you're talking about. Not saying I agree with you, but at least you have some kind of an argument.

50 accused Roy of being soft because he's a nice guy, and that's just ludicrous.

:laugh2:

Play nice now, I'm trying to help the guy out, lol.

[Deep_Freeze]

we are soft, at least at the COACHING position.

attack, then when you get tired, ATTACK again.

Bill is a conservative old school wimp. Hammer 'em dammit!!!!!

gawd

:laugh2:

A bit crude, although may have some degree of truth about Zimmer.......and his passive style.

It is harder to show the fire I speak of when you are just trying to tackle them once they get the ball, and hoping they don't get the 10 yards.

Easier to show fire I guess if you have 8 sacks and 2 Ints, or something. Being passive does make us look a bit asleep. I don't know, I would just rather have a better defensive philsophy, I remember BP said he had to curtail alot of the plays that Zimmer wanted to run.

The culprit is probably somewhere in the middle of those two.

[HighTechDave]

:laugh2:

A bit crude, although may have some degree of truth about Zimmer.......and his passive style.

It is harder to show the fire I speak of when you are just trying to tackle them once they get the ball, and hoping they don't get the 10 yards.

Easier to show fire I guess if you have 8 sacks and 2 Ints, or something. Being passive does make us look a bit asleep. I don't know, I would just rather have a better defensive philsophy, I remember BP said he had to curtail alot of the plays that Zimmer wanted to run.

The culprit is probably somewhere in the middle of those two.



lol, that statement was not against Zimmer and the defense. Let loose the Hounds, is his statement.

no, actually it was against the offense. They seem just a little too passive and p-word on their calls and attack strategy. Go for the throat if your going to suck,,,, Bill.

that was all. Just seems there is no killer aura (sp?), which means lack of leadership on both the coaching and players.

had no prob in the Jimmy era......... hehehe

[Deep_Freeze]

lol, that statement was not against Zimmer and the defense. Let loose the Hounds, is his statement.

no, actually it was against the offense. They seem just a little too passive and p-word on their calls and attack strategy. Go for the throat if your going to suck,,,, Bill.

that was all. Just seems there is no killer aura (sp?), which means lack of leadership on both the coaching and players.

had no prob in the Jimmy era......... hehehe

Aaaah, I think the offense is fine from an agressive standpoint. Drew will stand back there all day patting the ball waiting on the big play first, so I doubt that he is being passive back there. If anything, he is being too aggressive waiting on something big, instead of dumping the ball off.

Now, they could be more creative with the offense, and perhaps that is what you are saying. If so, it seems to be OK, but it could stand some more trick plays or two.

[HighTechDave]

ask Patton about his trick plays. not dissing your points, valid.

just quit being a wimp U.N. Sanctions assembly group, and just kick their ***.

all I got. discuss

[dontpush]

since when is canty a nice guy on the field...that whole list is ****ed

[cowboyed]

Well then, the Eagles are just tougher than we are.

[CrazyCowboy]

I believe it is because we do not attack enough......we play passive .....not to lose vs to win the game!

[LaTunaNostra]

All kidding aside, I still think some of you are pointing to the wrong terms. 50 cent put words out there such as "soft", or not "tough", but those are not the correct words, and I don't think they have much merit. What I think he means is what I'm talking about, an emotional leader.

A guy that wears his passion on his sleeve. A guy that pumps you up watching him, and you are just sitting on your couch. A guy that makes you want to punch a hole in your table, opps, sorry Rack, that was done out of anger right?

Irvin did that. There are a few that do it in this league, and alot of them have a tendency to be leading some of the top defenses. That is not a coincidence.


That I can agree to. A vocal, emotional leader like Key was - I think he and Dan struck just the right balance last year between in-your-face 'tude and calm, relentless 'nastiness'. The thing about that kind of leadership is it can't be feigned - it's in a person's personality, or not. Confidence breeds leadership, but the most effective emotional kind is part of basic temperament.

It's the kind of effect I prefer to see coming from the QB, and which Vinnie T or Drew Bledsoe never had. I think Romo may have it, tho.

On D, I see it developing somewhat in Bradie James.

[superpunk]

Having a vocal, fiery leader is a nice idea. And maybe seeing a guy that worked up gets a few select players just as worked up. Maybe it gets us worked up in our living room. But consider this - When was the last time you really saw that "fire" (and by fire, I'm assuming we're talking about guys who go nuts after they make a big play, maybe with a dance, some shouting, etc...) by itself inspire the rest of the team?

I thought about that, and I can't really say I've seen that. Ray Lewis receives a bunch of hype for his weekly pregame hype session, where he walks around screaming to anyone that will listen, but do you see any of them really reacting to it? Mostly, I just see players sitting around, on the bench, joking with one another, calmly talking, etc.

When a player makes a stop in the backfield, a la Joey Porter, and then has to do a little rehearsed dance, where he feigns kicking something, or something else that isolates himself, do you think that really gets anyone else fired up? Generally, when these players are doing their celebrations, they make a concerted effort to get away from their teammates, so as to get more exposure.

I think, what inspires the rest of the team more than anything else is performance. Because, even at that level, a hit that makes everyone cringe for the poor guy that got layed out, makes everyone go "Oooooohhhh". And noone - noone - delivers those hits more than Roy. How many times have you seen him deliver one of those, and then be surrounded by congratulatory teammates, sharing in his moment? That is inspiring.

At the NFL level, it's not about fiery emotional speeches. These guys have heard it all before. Do you really think Ray Lewis' act of checking to see whether or not the dogs, are in fact, in the house, isn't a little played out to some of his teammates? Do you think that effects them that much? I doubt it. The most effective thing is preparation. A team that is prepared, is going to be extremely confident when they go out there. They're going to be in position for game-changing plays. The confidence that comes from preparation is more empowering than any feigned "toughness" that comes out in dances or speeches. And that's where our team is one of the toughest in the league, at least according to Parcells, and actual opposing teams that we've faced. It is mentally taxing to play us.

[joseephuss]

Wasn't Pacman Jones just saying the other day that the Titans needed more thugs on the team. Perhaps Dallas needs more thugs as well. :laugh1:

[Uh-Oh]

So what the thread starter is saying is that he would rather have the Bengals' jail-hopping thugs in cleats, rather than good citizen NFL players.

[Chocolate Lab]

Are the Skins "tough" and "men" because some of them play dirty?

And hey, did you see where Lawerence Philips just tried to run over some guys with his car? There's a guy we could add to our team to make us more street-tough and respectable on the field.

[50cent]

We aren't seeing it too differently, do you think this D has played up to its potential?? I don't think so, whether it is coaching or the players, it is probably both. Our DC is sitting and waiting for the offense to make a mistake, instead of causing the mistake.

That does make the team have a tendency to look tame.



Nice Post.

Now how can I listen to a person whose favorite player is Terry Glenn, preach about toughness..........just kidding, lol, she is tough.......sometimes ;)

All kidding aside, I still think some of you are pointing to the wrong terms. 50 cent put words out there such as "soft", or not "tough", but those are not the correct words, and I don't think they have much merit. What I think he means is what I'm talking about, an emotional leader.

A guy that wears his passion on his sleeve. A guy that pumps you up watching him, and you are just sitting on your couch. A guy that makes you want to punch a hole in your table, opps, sorry Rack, that was done out of anger right?

Irvin did that. There are a few that do it in this league, and alot of them have a tendency to be leading some of the top defenses. That is not a coincidence.No, I know exactly what I'm trying to say. They are nice guy, but aren't TOUGH. Teams think they can run all over us in tough games and we will back down. I'm being dead serious! I can remember the last game we won when it was a physical struggle between both teams. It was the Christmas Carolina game. Besides that, we always seem to wilt to more physical teams. Hence lack of toughness. Its easy to be more physical with the Cardinals and last years Chiefs, but when someone else hits us in the mouth, we seem to fold. You don't have to agree, but until we start to show that we won't wilt to tougher teams, we're in trouble.

[LaTunaNostra]

Teams think they can run all over us in tough games and we will back down.

To prove that you'd need either player quotes, or some physical evidence of disdain, ie sneers, sarcasm, or even better, coming out on the field flat because they expect to face a bunch of pansies.

I've seen no evidence any team doesn't take the Cowboys seriously.

[50cent]

To prove that you'd need either player quotes, or some physical evidence of disdain, ie sneers, sarcasm, or even better, coming out on the field flat because they expect to face a bunch of pansies.

I've seen no evidence any team doesn't take the Cowboys seriously.La, I respect your opinion, but we both know that there isn't a player in the league thats going to come out and say that the Boys are soft. I only go by what I see during games when our players are confronted by other players. I have given examples, but this isn't a I'm wrong, no your wrong thread. I see too many times our guys back down from opposing players. Thats what I see. As I stated before, I have no proof, but actions speak very loud. The last time I saw us stand up and defend one another was last Christmas vs Carolina, but I can't remember another game in awhile.

[LaTunaNostra]

La, I respect your opinion, but we both know that there isn't a player in the league thats going to come out and say that the Boys are soft. I only go by what I see during games when our players are confronted by other players. I have given examples, but this isn't a I'm wrong, no your wrong thread. I see too many times our guys back down from opposing players. Thats what I see. As I stated before, I have no proof, but actions speak very loud. The last time I saw us stand up and defend one another was last Christmas vs Carolina, but I can't remember another game in awhile.

OK, even if I don't believe you're assessing the situation correctly, I do respect your take.

But do this please... the next time you see one of our guys "back down", please point it out sometime the following week.

PS I think the Haynesworth thing, when obviously the potential witnesses were in front of the stomp with their backs to it (aka JJ's wiggle TD dance), might be contributing to the 'backdown idea'....but no one realized what had happened and Dre's subdued/mature/stunned behavior didn't even alert the team anything more serious than an accidental bloody nose might have occurred.

[50cent]

OK, even if I don't believe you're assessing the situation correctly, I do respect your take.

But do this please... the next time you see one of our guys "back down", please point it out sometime the following week.

PS I think the Haynesworth thing, when obviously the potential witnesses were in front of the stomp with their backs to it (aka JJ's wiggle TD dance), might be contributing to the 'backdown idea'....but no one realized what had happened and Dre's subdued/mature/stunned behavior didn't even alert the team anything more serious than an accidental bloody nose might have occurred.Oh no, I excused the rest of the guys for the same reason. I too believe they were not aware of what happened so no one could help. I agree with that situation. I don't feel the same about Gurode's reaction though. He should have made a bee-line to Haynesworth instantly. Bloodshed or no blood, get up and make someone pay for Haynesworth actions. One example, Washington's hit on Witten last season at Wash. Another play that sticks out to me is a play on RW highlight film. Roy makes a hit on a kickoff vs. the Giants. Brandon Jacobs horsecollars Roy on the tackle. Roy gets up throwing Jacobs arm off of him in disguist. If the vidoe plays out a little longer, Jacobs confronts Roy and Roy turns the other cheek. Guys sense this and thats why I say teams notice too. I will point this out in other games.

P.S. - Remember when the Skins had the Smurf's and they would celebrate in the end zone? I remember guys like Walls, Thurman and others, say not in our house. These guys weren't thugs, just guys that had pride. It still burns me to see T.O. catch a touchdown with Philly and watch TNew(my fav. Boy) watch T.O step on the star in the endzone, open his arms, and not get in his face.

[rlgiv]

I don't have proof, but it just seems to me that teams don't respect us as men. I mentioned this last season after the Washington game. The game when Witten got a cheap shot from LB (Washington) on our sideline and nobody fought back. I was afraid of this and thats why I loved the Carpenter pick, because he plays with fire. What good does that do, when he doesn't play at all. No disrespect to Ellis, because I like him at OLB, but we just have enough guys that play with fire. We have too many nice guys.

Nice Guys-
Ellis
Fergy (comedian)
Roy
Ware
Spears
Canty
Ayodele ?
Tnew
Flo
JJ
Gurode (Haynesworth punked him)
Rivera
Watkins
Bledsoe
and too many others to mentions

Guys with mean streaks all the time -
Burnett
Columbo
Davis
Henry
James
Barber
TO

Guys, we don't have enough mean *** mofos at leadership positions. We are soft and it shows!

Maybe we should trade for Haynesworth after he gets off his suspension. I bet he is buddies with Pac Man Jones. He is a thug, that would make us tougher right?

Derek Ross is available we would be tougher if we got him?


Thats just crazy. Being an or a loud person on the field has nothing to do with your game intensity or how well you perform.

[conner01]

kicking a guy in the face when he's down on the ground really shows how tough you are

[jrumann59]

I guess you were never taught, "It takes more of amn to walk away" then to do the irrational thing like try an attempt to pummel a behemoth like Haynesworth with one good eye. Give me your address 50Cent and let me cleat you in the face and lets see how effective your toughness is then. Your argument is feeble, and your point is lost.

[Rampage]

we are soft. overhyped and overrated too.

[peplaw06]

we are soft. overhyped and overrated too.

Well then your boy ain't so "big" and "bad" I don't guess.

[Rampage]

Well then your boy ain't so "big" and "bad" I don't guess.
not if he keeps playing as poorly as he did on sunday

[peplaw06]

not if he keeps playing as poorly as he did on sunday

So do you think he's soft? Or do you think he had a bad game... because soft isn't something that changes from week to week.

[Rampage]

So do you think he's soft? Or do you think he had a bad game... because soft isn't something that changes from week to week.
i don't think he is soft. i think he had a bad game along with a lot of other guys. but i do think we are overhyped and overrated

[jrumann59]

Being soft has nothing to do with being out of position. Being tough is taking the best a better team has and still be there in the end when the dust settles. Being tough is spotting a good team 10 points in 5 minutes and still having the guts to play and keep it even to the end. Tough isn't who can beat, punch, or stomp some defenseless person on the ground. Being tough is taking it in the arse even when you know its going to hurt. So we have nice guys on the team, they are professionals, when did the thug mindset invade sports. There are plenty of nice guys that are tough, and there are plenty of mean and nasty guys that aren't tough, Lavar arrington is n't tough but he is nasty. Chuck Norris whom I have met personally is nice guy but I sure as hell don't want to piss him off in a dark alley.

[LaTunaNostra]

Being tough is taking it in the arse even when you know its going to hurt.

That should effectively end this thread. :bow:

[peplaw06]

That should effectively end this thread. :bow:

Thank God... This thread should have ended long ago.

[jrumann59]

That should effectively end this thread. :bow:


Does that mean I am headed for a ban.

[LaTunaNostra]

Does that mean I am headed for a ban.

No, it means you're headed for a thank you.;)

[Sarge]

If anything is soft, it's a good number of posters on this board.:rolleyes:

I've never seen so many nervous nellies in one place before.

Pitiful.

Ya, well thank God you're here to toughen things up a bit. :rolleyes:

[Rampage]

Ya, well thank God you're here to toughen things up a bit. :rolleyes:
:lmao2: :lmao2: :bow: