Bobby Carpenter

[cowboy4life_32]

I have seen several threads where people stated that Bobby Carpenter was a wasted 1st round pick.
Here are the picks after Capenter. From the looks of things, Maroney for New England & Lawson for the Forty-Whiners looks like great picks, but I don't know about the others just yet. Who else after the Capenter pick should we have drafted instead?

19 19 San Diego Cromartie, Antonio CB 6-2 207 Florida State
20 20 Kansas City Hali, Tamba DE 6-3 275 Penn State
21 21 New England Maroney, Laurence RB 6-0 216 Minnesota
22 22 San Francisco (from Washington through Denver) Lawson, Manny OLB 6-5 240 North Carolina State
23 23 Tampa Bay Joseph, Davin G 6-3 312 Oklahoma
24 24 Cincinnati Joseph, Johnathan CB 5-11 192 South Carolina
25 25 Pittsburgh (from N.Y. Giants) Holmes, Santonio WR 5-11 187 Ohio State
26 26 Buffalo (from Chicago) McCargo, John DT 6-2 301 North Carolina State
27 27 Carolina Williams, DeAngelo RB 5-9 213 Memphis
28 28 Jacksonville Lewis, Marcedes TE 6-6 262 UCLA
29 29 N.Y. Jets (from Denver) Mangold, Nick C 6-4 299 Ohio State
30 30 Indianapolis Addai, Joseph RB 5-11 215 Louisiana State
31 31 Seattle Jennings, Kelly CB 5-11 179 Miami (Fla.)
32 32 N.Y. Giants (from Pittsburgh) Kiwanuka, Mathias DE 6-6 265 Boston College

[Sam I Am]

Here are my thoughts on these players vs what the Cowboys needed.


19 19 San Diego Cromartie, Antonio CB 6-2 207 Florida State
Didn't need him.
20 20 Kansas City Hali, Tamba DE 6-3 275 Penn State
Didn't need him.
21 21 New England Maroney, Laurence RB 6-0 216 Minnesota
They hadn't given up on Jones and MBIII yet. Didn't need him.
22 22 San Francisco (from Washington through Denver) Lawson, Manny OLB 6-5 240 North Carolina State
Didn't need him, they needed a run stopping linebacker not another Ware.
23 23 Tampa Bay Joseph, Davin G 6-3 312 Oklahoma
This is a major possibility at guard, but he isn't an NFL tackle.
24 24 Cincinnati Joseph, Johnathan CB 5-11 192 South Carolina
Didn't need him.
25 25 Pittsburgh (from N.Y. Giants) Holmes, Santonio WR 5-11 187 Ohio State
With TO, Glenn, and Crayton they needed more elsewhere.
26 26 Buffalo (from Chicago) McCargo, John DT 6-2 301 North Carolina State
I don't think he will be effective in a 3-4.
27 27 Carolina Williams, DeAngelo RB 5-9 213 Memphis
Again, Cowboys haven't given up on Jones and MBIII
28 28 Jacksonville Lewis, Marcedes TE 6-6 262 UCLA
Already had Witten and could get Fasano in the second round.
29 29 N.Y. Jets (from Denver) Mangold, Nick C 6-4 299 Ohio State
With Al Johnson and Andre Gurode we weren't looking for a Center
30 30 Indianapolis Addai, Joseph RB 5-11 215 Louisiana State
Jones and MBIII
31 31 Seattle Jennings, Kelly CB 5-11 179 Miami (Fla.)
Didn't need him.
32 32 N.Y. Giants (from Pittsburgh) Kiwanuka, Mathias DE 6-6 265 Boston College
He is to small for a 3-4 defense.

[royhitshard]

Davin Joseph

[Yeagermeister]

27 27 Carolina Williams, DeAngelo RB 5-9 213 Memphis

But I'm a homer :D

[Sam I Am]

Davin Joseph

Ha! He is the only one I liked, but I see you have ties to him by your .sig. :)

[BARRYRAY]

Trade up if necessary, my picks, LT,LT,LT,LT, Flo has lost it, without one of those we go nowhere whether its Romo or Troy Aikman, this has got to get fixed, should have last draft...

[CrazyCowboy]

I am still hoping Carp was the right call.

[Angus]

I have seen several threads where people stated that Bobby Carpenter was a wasted 1st round pick.
Here are the picks after Capenter. From the looks of things, Maroney for New England & Lawson for the Forty-Whiners looks like great picks, but I don't know about the others just yet. Who else after the Capenter pick should we have drafted instead?

19 19 San Diego Cromartie, Antonio CB 6-2 207 Florida State
20 20 Kansas City Hali, Tamba DE 6-3 275 Penn State
21 21 New England Maroney, Laurence RB 6-0 216 Minnesota
22 22 San Francisco (from Washington through Denver) Lawson, Manny OLB 6-5 240 North Carolina State
23 23 Tampa Bay Joseph, Davin G 6-3 312 Oklahoma
24 24 Cincinnati Joseph, Johnathan CB 5-11 192 South Carolina
25 25 Pittsburgh (from N.Y. Giants) Holmes, Santonio WR 5-11 187 Ohio State
26 26 Buffalo (from Chicago) McCargo, John DT 6-2 301 North Carolina State
27 27 Carolina Williams, DeAngelo RB 5-9 213 Memphis
28 28 Jacksonville Lewis, Marcedes TE 6-6 262 UCLA
29 29 N.Y. Jets (from Denver) Mangold, Nick C 6-4 299 Ohio State
30 30 Indianapolis Addai, Joseph RB 5-11 215 Louisiana State
31 31 Seattle Jennings, Kelly CB 5-11 179 Miami (Fla.)
32 32 N.Y. Giants (from Pittsburgh) Kiwanuka, Mathias DE 6-6 265 Boston College

Cromartie. Purely on BPA, not need.

[rock0100]

Thomas Howard (LB - UTEP). He is having a good year at Oakland. I wish we would trade Carpenter and a future draft pick for a good strong safety that can cover, then move Roy Williams to inside linebacker. I know he is undersized, but we already know he can tackle anything that moves and he would not have to be in coverage so often.

[royhitshard]

Ha! He is the only one I liked, but I see you have ties to him by your .sig. :)

Yes, I am a homer, but I think Oline was more important than LB, and he was a great Olineman at OU. JMO

[AbeBeta]

Trade up if necessary, my picks, LT,LT,LT,LT, Flo has lost it, without one of those we go nowhere whether its Romo or Troy Aikman, this has got to get fixed, should have last draft...

There was only 1 LT worth a first. It would have taken most of our picks to get up that high.

[StarAmongStars]

Just food for thought.....but when Bobby The Bust dresses we are winless. We might want to consider sitting him the rest of the season especially since he's useless anyway.

Parcells comments about this kid not even showing him anything on special teams is very telling. :banghead:

[Basileus777]

There was only 1 LT worth a first. It would have taken most of our picks to get up that high.

They could have traded down and taken Justice, or even McNeil later in the 2nd round.

[Pabst]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with playing two tough teams on the road.

[StarAmongStars]

I have seen several threads where people stated that Bobby Carpenter was a wasted 1st round pick.
Here are the picks after Capenter. From the looks of things, Maroney for New England & Lawson for the Forty-Whiners looks like great picks, but I don't know about the others just yet. Who else after the Capenter pick should we have drafted instead?

19 19 San Diego Cromartie, Antonio CB 6-2 207 Florida State
20 20 Kansas City Hali, Tamba DE 6-3 275 Penn State
21 21 New England Maroney, Laurence RB 6-0 216 Minnesota
22 22 San Francisco (from Washington through Denver) Lawson, Manny OLB 6-5 240 North Carolina State
23 23 Tampa Bay Joseph, Davin G 6-3 312 Oklahoma
24 24 Cincinnati Joseph, Johnathan CB 5-11 192 South Carolina
25 25 Pittsburgh (from N.Y. Giants) Holmes, Santonio WR 5-11 187 Ohio State
26 26 Buffalo (from Chicago) McCargo, John DT 6-2 301 North Carolina State
27 27 Carolina Williams, DeAngelo RB 5-9 213 Memphis
28 28 Jacksonville Lewis, Marcedes TE 6-6 262 UCLA
29 29 N.Y. Jets (from Denver) Mangold, Nick C 6-4 299 Ohio State
30 30 Indianapolis Addai, Joseph RB 5-11 215 Louisiana State
31 31 Seattle Jennings, Kelly CB 5-11 179 Miami (Fla.)
32 32 N.Y. Giants (from Pittsburgh) Kiwanuka, Mathias DE 6-6 265 Boston College

I would have taken Lawson....kid is going to be special. I actually had him graded as a top 10 prospect on my draft board.

[Chocolate Lab]

Did we lose to the Redskins? I could swear we beat them.

[junk]

Double check your facts.

Carp was active against Washington.

[theebs]

Just food for thought.....but when Bobby The Bust dresses we are winless. We might want to consider sitting him the rest of the season especially since he's useless.

Parcells comments about this kid not even showing him anything on special teams is very telling. :banghead:


ACtually its your information that is bust worthy.

Carpenter was active against washington not jacksonville.

but who needs details this is a message board where anything that is said is a fact.

[superpunk]

I would have taken Lawson....kid is going to be special. I actually had him graded as a top 10 prospect on my draft board.

NFL Scout in the hizzy!

Genuflect, people....genuflect.

[junk]

They could have traded down and taken Justice, or even McNeil later in the 2nd round.

Or they could have just taken McNeil with their second round pick.....but they didn't. Obviously not much interest if they passed twice.

[StarAmongStars]

Double check your facts.

Carp was active against Washington.

It don't matter what games he's played in.....wasted pick that could have been used on other glaring needs. :banghead:

[superpunk]

It don't matter what games he's played in.....wasted pick that could have been used on other glaring needs. :banghead:


Pay no attention to those jerks and their uber-lame facts. What do they know about trends, anyway? I mean, if you're going to start a line of thought, you should be allowed to make up whatever you want, right?

Am I right?

[Pabst]

Maybe it's just me, but I kinda like it when the first round pick isn't an immediate starter. Shows the team has, ya know... talent and depth.

[theebs]

It don't matter what games he's played in.....wasted pick that could have been used on other glaring needs. :banghead:

LOL those silly facts.....
I mean I think we should have taken joe montana in the first, and then tom brady in the 7th this year. Because then we would have a starter and a backup....

[StarAmongStars]

LOL those silly facts.....
I mean I think we should have taken joe montana in the first, and then tom brady in the 7th this year. Because then we would have a starter and a backup....

Look at our defense....we have been lit up by two contenders on the road and our secondary has been god awful in both games.

Also consider our biggest problems from last year....OLINE and FS.....one of them should have been addressed in the first round but no the geniuses in the front office decided to pass up on a ton of better prospects and draft busty bobby. We also traded Shanle who was more than servicable at the LB position. And....we had more than enough chances to sign a big name FA to play FS and passed up on that as well.

[superpunk]

Look at our defense....we have been lit up by two contenders on the road and our secondary has been god awful in both games.

Also consider our biggest problems from last year....OLINE and FS.....one of them should have been addressed in the first round but no the geniuses in the front office decided to pass up on a ton of better prospects and draft busty bobby. We also traded Shanle who was more than servicable at the LB position. And....we had more than enough chances to sign a big name FA to play FS and passed up on that as well.

Give me names. I want names. Did you want us to pick up Winston Justice? He can't start for a line that's given up more sacks than ours. Who were these safeties that were waiting to be picked? Or big name FS's that were waiting to be signed?

[StarAmongStars]

Give me names. I want names. Did you want us to pick up Winston Justice? He can't start for a line that's given up more sacks than ours. Who were these safeties that were waiting to be picked? Or big name FS's that were waiting to be signed?

I would have taken Justice....they have a better chance of developing in the long run. But if we were going defense I would have taken Lawson, he is/was a top 10 calibur talent.

As for FS...we could have had Dwight Smith or Chris Hope......or could have signed a veteran corner like Charles Woodson or Ty Law and converted them to safety. In fact I'm sure that a wily veteran like Law would have loved to been reunited with Parcells and Bledsoe with a chance to win more superbowls.

[theebs]

Look at our defense....we have been lit up by two contenders on the road and our secondary has been god awful in both games.

Also consider our biggest problems from last year....OLINE and FS.....one of them should have been addressed in the first round but no the geniuses in the front office decided to pass up on a ton of better prospects and draft busty bobby. We also traded Shanle who was more than servicable at the LB position. And....we had more than enough chances to sign a big name FA to play FS and passed up on that as well.

First off, jacksonville did not light up our defense..geez....

secondly the eagles made three big plays on our defense, two of them on pat watkins while he was alone in coverage and the other on watkins and williams.

So your statement that our secodary is not good is false, in fact they barely competed passes on our corners. great game from mcnabb.

If you are going to shoot down every single part of the team to defend one player, that is ridiculous.

Your comment on shanle is all I need to know. If our front office thought like you we would win 2 or 3 games.

[theebs]

I would have taken Justice....they have a better chance of developing in the long run. But if we were going defense I would have taken Lawson, he is/was a top 10 calibur talent.

As for FS...we could have had Dwight Smith or Chris Hope......or could have signed a veteran corner like Charles Woodson or Ty Law and converted them to safety. In fact I'm sure that a wily veteran like Law would have loved to been reunited with Parcells and Bledsoe with a chance to win more superbowls.


You do realize that winston justice has been inactive every week for philly right???? lol, you would be calling him a bust if were here too.

Secondly, why would you spend a large amount of money a free safety, that is terrible business. Watkins or coleman will be fine. I love the fact that watkins is back there, and I am willing to go through the growing pains with him to develop.

[superpunk]

I would have taken Justice....they have a better chance of developing in the long run.
You were frustrated in your earlier post because of our problems this year. Justice would not be a help. As I said, he can't get on the field for a team giving up more sacks than the Cowboys.

But if we were going defense I would have taken Lawson, he is/was a top 10 calibur talent.

So he could ride the pine behind Ellis, right? Another non-starter.

As for FS...we could have had Dwight Smith or Chris Hope

I was hoping you wouldn't say Smith, because I have to agree with you, but Hope is meh. I'd rather roll with what we have than him. In any case, you didn't give us any draftees that would been better than Carp in the first. We got our starting FS in the 5th, and he looks like a player. Who would you have preferred in the first over Watkins in the 5th?

And please, save the bull CB to FS arguments for someone else. You're wanted at Nors' table. There's a litany of reasons that they, and we, would never do that. I can't believe you said "wily veteran."

[the kid 05]

Thomas Howard (LB - UTEP). He is having a good year at Oakland. I wish we would trade Carpenter and a future draft pick for a good strong safety that can cover, then move Roy Williams to inside linebacker. I know he is undersized, but we already know he can tackle anything that moves and he would not have to be in coverage so often.

Sorry for the late welcome. but seeing as how your new here, we have already beat the topic of moving Roy to linebacker to death. He is to small to play a 3-4 line backer even though he plays some in our situational nickle package. And excluding the eagles game (where every but T-new played bad) Roy is good in coverage not great like Ed Reed but Good.

[Sam I Am]

I would have taken Justice....they have a better chance of developing in the long run. But if we were going defense I would have taken Lawson, he is/was a top 10 calibur talent.


I'm not sure Justice will even make it in the NFL. I don't think he has what it takes in several aspects. (mental and physical) As for Lawson, why would we draft Lawson when we already have Ware? If offensive line and safety were the issues why would you take Lawson in the first place?

[superpunk]

I'm not sure Justice will even make it in the NFL. I don't think he has what it takes in several aspects. (mental and physical) As for Lawson, why would we draft Lawson when we already have Ware? If offensive line and safety were the issues why would you take Lawson in the first place?

Because he's a top 10 talent! Don't you read? :eek:

It's amazing how 20 GMs disagreed. This guy needs to get in touch with the higher-ups.

[Sam I Am]

Because he's a top 10 talent! Don't you read? :eek:


Actually in some aspects I can see doing that. If I needed a DE in the 3rd round and Reggie Bush was on the board. I think I would have to take Reggie.... White. :laugh1: ;)

[cowboy4life_32]

OK,
so if we were to trade up, who would we have traded up for? And don't say Bush, young, ect.. because that wasn't going to happen.
This was not a good draft for Offense linemen, but next year will be.
IMO, we should have traded down and gotten extra picks, just like we did when we passed on S. Jackson

1 1 Houston Williams, Mario DE 6-7 294 North Carolina State
2 2 New Orleans Bush, Reggie RB 5-11 200 Southern California
3 3 Tennessee Young, Vince QB 6-5 228 Texas
4 4 N.Y. Jets Ferguson, D'Brickashaw OT 6-6 313 Virginia
5 5 Green Bay Hawk, A.J. OLB 6-1 247 Ohio State
6 6 San Francisco Davis, Vernon TE 6-3 256 Maryland
7 7 Oakland Huff, Michael SS 6-0 203 Texas
8 8 Buffalo Whitner, Donte SS 5-10 203 Ohio State
9 9 Detroit Sims, Ernie OLB 5-11 232 Florida State
10 10 Arizona Leinart, Matt QB 6-5 224 Southern California
11 11 Denver (from St. Louis) Cutler, Jay QB 6-3 225 Vanderbilt
12 12 Baltimore (from Cleveland) Ngata, Haloti DT 6-4 337 Oregon
13 13 Cleveland (from Baltimore) Wimbley, Kamerion DE 6-3 241 Florida State
14 14 Philadelphia Bunkley, Brodrick DT 6-3 307 Florida State
15 15 St. Louis (from Atlanta through Denver) Hill, Tye CB 5-9 186 Clemson
16 16 Miami Allen, Jason CB 6-1 208 Tennessee
17 17 Minnesota Greenway, Chad OLB 6-3 243 Iowa

[fanfromvirginia]

OK,
so if we were to trade up, who would we have traded up for? And don't say Bush, young, ect.. because that wasn't going to happen.
This was not a good draft for Offense linemen, but next year will be.
IMO, we should have traded down and gotten extra picks, just like we did when we passed on S. Jackson

1 1 Houston Williams, Mario DE 6-7 294 North Carolina State
2 2 New Orleans Bush, Reggie RB 5-11 200 Southern California
3 3 Tennessee Young, Vince QB 6-5 228 Texas
4 4 N.Y. Jets Ferguson, D'Brickashaw OT 6-6 313 Virginia
5 5 Green Bay Hawk, A.J. OLB 6-1 247 Ohio State
6 6 San Francisco Davis, Vernon TE 6-3 256 Maryland
7 7 Oakland Huff, Michael SS 6-0 203 Texas
8 8 Buffalo Whitner, Donte SS 5-10 203 Ohio State
9 9 Detroit Sims, Ernie OLB 5-11 232 Florida State
10 10 Arizona Leinart, Matt QB 6-5 224 Southern California
11 11 Denver (from St. Louis) Cutler, Jay QB 6-3 225 Vanderbilt
12 12 Baltimore (from Cleveland) Ngata, Haloti DT 6-4 337 Oregon
13 13 Cleveland (from Baltimore) Wimbley, Kamerion DE 6-3 241 Florida State
14 14 Philadelphia Bunkley, Brodrick DT 6-3 307 Florida State
15 15 St. Louis (from Atlanta through Denver) Hill, Tye CB 5-9 186 Clemson
16 16 Miami Allen, Jason CB 6-1 208 Tennessee
17 17 Minnesota Greenway, Chad OLB 6-3 243 Iowa
Well, then, how far up are we allowed to go? I see one Matt Leinart sitting there at 10...

[junk]

Pay no attention to those jerks and their uber-lame facts. What do they know about trends, anyway? I mean, if you're going to start a line of thought, you should be allowed to make up whatever you want, right?

Am I right?

:laugh2:

[DaDoomsDay]

Mangold, Nick C 6-4 299 Ohio State

[Sam I Am]

Mangold, Nick C 6-4 299 Ohio State

I like him too, but the Cowboys didn't actually need a Center.

[Yeagermeister]

OK,
so if we were to trade up, who would we have traded up for? And don't say Bush, young, ect.. because that wasn't going to happen.
This was not a good draft for Offense linemen, but next year will be.
IMO, we should have traded down and gotten extra picks, just like we did when we passed on S. Jackson

1 1 Houston Williams, Mario DE 6-7 294 North Carolina State
2 2 New Orleans Bush, Reggie RB 5-11 200 Southern California
3 3 Tennessee Young, Vince QB 6-5 228 Texas
4 4 N.Y. Jets Ferguson, D'Brickashaw OT 6-6 313 Virginia
5 5 Green Bay Hawk, A.J. OLB 6-1 247 Ohio State
6 6 San Francisco Davis, Vernon TE 6-3 256 Maryland
7 7 Oakland Huff, Michael SS 6-0 203 Texas
8 8 Buffalo Whitner, Donte SS 5-10 203 Ohio State
9 9 Detroit Sims, Ernie OLB 5-11 232 Florida State
10 10 Arizona Leinart, Matt QB 6-5 224 Southern California
11 11 Denver (from St. Louis) Cutler, Jay QB 6-3 225 Vanderbilt
12 12 Baltimore (from Cleveland) Ngata, Haloti DT 6-4 337 Oregon
13 13 Cleveland (from Baltimore) Wimbley, Kamerion DE 6-3 241 Florida State
14 14 Philadelphia Bunkley, Brodrick DT 6-3 307 Florida State
15 15 St. Louis (from Atlanta through Denver) Hill, Tye CB 5-9 186 Clemson
16 16 Miami Allen, Jason CB 6-1 208 Tennessee
17 17 Minnesota Greenway, Chad OLB 6-3 243 Iowa

The only player I would have traded up for was D'Brickashaw and I would take Cutler over Lienart....more upside and athletic.

[Sam I Am]

The only player I would have traded up for was D'Brickashaw and I would take Cutler over Lienart....more upside and athletic.

If I had the first pick in the draft I would have taken D'Brickshaw. (Yes, even over Reggie Bush) Next I would have taken Cutler.

[THUMPER]

I wanted us to trade up for Matt Leinart which means we wouldn't have had Carpenter or Fasano, which woiuld not be a great loss IMO. I assume we would have had to throw in a pick in next year's draft as well but probably not a 1st.

As for Leinart vs Cutler, I'd take Leinart every time. He has much more of the "intangibles" than Cutler IMO and is more NFL ready. That said, I wouldn't have been all that upset if we would have gotten Cutler either.

[Deep_Freeze]

Who is Bobby Carpenter??

Heck, I thought we were still searching for Bobby Fischer.....now this Carpenter guy......

[JonJon]

I would have attempted a trade out of the 1st round completely, then I would have taken:

2. Winston Justice OT
2. Bobby Carpenter....If he was gone, then Brodie Croyle QB
3. Ko Simpson FS

[amuze]

Maybe it's just me, but I kinda like it when the first round pick isn't an immediate starter. Shows the team has, ya know... talent and depth.

Yes, enough talent and depth to be a .500 team heading nowhere fast as long as the QB keeps getting destroyed. LT....I agree with BARRYRAY.

[LatinMind]

You do realize that winston justice has been inactive every week for philly right???? lol, you would be calling him a bust if were here too.


i dont think justice would be inactive in dallas..he'd be starting

[Bob Sacamano]

someone just said we should have draft John McCargo, a 1-gap, 4-3 DT

this thread has gone to hell

[JPM]

I'm still mad about not drafting Tom Brady in 2000. I mean we picked Mario Edwards instead !!

[CrazyCowboy]

I'm still mad about not drafting Tom Brady in 2000. I mean we picked Mario Edwards instead !!

:laugh2: That is a great one!

[AbeBeta]

someone just said we should have draft John McCargo, a 1-gap, 4-3 DT

this thread has gone to hell

Even worse, the guy was 3rd round talent.

I would complain about the stupidity of the suggestion, but really I'm just happy to see that Larry Lacewell finally got DSL hooked up at his Arkansas retirement home.

[Stautner]

Is it really that hard to look at the Carpenter situation rationally?

Here are the simple truths:

1. It's disappointing that Carpenter hasn't performed well enough to force the Cowboys to play him more.

2. He does have the disadvantage of playing a position that is stronger than the team likely expected it to be, however being a first round draft choice it would be nice to see him at least in the mix.

3. He's just a rookie, and all players don't progress at the same pace. He still has time to prove himself.

BOTTOM LINE: He may eventually be successful and he may fail - there is no definitive answer at this point.


Is there anything here to dispute? At least for reasonable people (HINT - anyone that claims to know exactly and with certainty how Carpenter will turn out are not "reasonable").

[JPM]

Is it really that hard to look at the Carpenter situation rationally?

Here are the simple truths:

1. It's disappointing that Carpenter hasn't performed well enough to force the Cowboys to play him more.

2. He does have the disadvantage of playing a position that is stronger than the team likely expected it to be, however being a first round draft choice it would be nice to see him at least in the mix.

3. He's just a rookie, and all players don't progress at the same pace. He still has time to prove himself.

BOTTOM LINE: He may eventually be successful and he may fail - there is no definitive answer at this point.


Is there anything here to dispute? At least for reasonable people (HINT - anyone that claims to know exactly and with certainty how Carpenter will turn out are not "reasonable").

That makes sense. You have to stop posting now, sorry.

[moet21]

He'll be alright in two years when Ellis is on the verge of retirment