New Rule for Celebrating

[Cowchips]

Next year they should make the rule that touchdowns are taken away for excessive celebrating. See if coaches can control their players then.

Between that and the theatre productions that are put on for reviews, it's clear the NFL just plays the game but isnt serious about fixing the issue.

I'm so sick of seeing morons like TO making of themselves. Totally childish.

For reviews, they should just review and fix in the first 15 seconds, without all the theatrics. Fans in the stands hate the delay but it does create additional commercial time outs :)

[percyhoward]

Somebody needs to explain to TO the difference those 15 yards made in field position. It meant that our later drive stalled at the Skins' 42 instead of their 27. If he still doesn't get it, then it needs to be explained to him that 44-yard FG attempts are preferrable to punting the ball.

[Juke99]

Yes but as Owens said..."It's what I do"

I still can't believe a fellow team member didn't get in his face for that.

THAT said a lot to me.

[SultanOfSix]

The Lambeu leap needs to be the first to go.

If ever there was a celebration that could be deemed "excessive", then the the one they do in Green Bay fits that to a tee.

Jumping in the stands is considered less "excessive" than laying down and pretending you're sleeping. The irony boggles my mind. How stupid.

[percyhoward]

Jumping in the stands is considered less "excessive" than laying down and pretending you're sleeping. The irony boggles my mind. How stupid.
I agree that it's an odd distinction, but you get penalized for breaking the stupid rules as well as the smart ones.

[LandryFan]

Yes but as Owens said..."It's what I do"

I still can't believe a fellow team member didn't get in his face for that.

THAT said a lot to me.

You are dead on with that one, Juke. I can't, for the life of me, figure out why OUR COACH or players put up with the childish antics when it hurts the team. If there were no rules against the so called "celebrations", then I could at least understand the logic of thse who argue in favor of letting the players have some "fun". Under the circumstances, however, I can't believe that the locker room leadership hasn't taken it upon themselves to ban these "celebrations" on their own. But wait, maybe we don't have any true locker room leaders!

[Juke99]

You are dead on with that one, Juke. I can't, for the life of me, figure out why OUR COACH or players put up with the childish antics when it hurts the team. If there were no rules against the so called "celebrations", then I could at least understand the logic of thse who argue in favor of letting the players have some "fun". Under the circumstances, however, I can't believe that the locker room leadership hasn't taken it upon themselves to ban these "celebrations" on their own. But wait, maybe we don't have any true locker room leaders!

Ya know, if it was like Emmitt and he tore his helmet off in the passion of the moment, fine.

But this was planned and he simply didn't give a crap.

And from the looks of it, no one else did either.

Fact of the matter is, if "coaching" Owens means placating him so as not to upset his delicate psyche, I'd rather see him gone.

So far, he's not been worth the 10 mil. Not by a long shot.

[cowboynDC]

The Lambeu leap needs to be the first to go.

If ever there was a celebration that could be deemed "excessive", then the the one they do in Green Bay fits that to a tee.

Jumping in the stands is considered less "excessive" than laying down and pretending you're sleeping. The irony boggles my mind. How stupid.
The "Leap" gets the fans involved. I would be surprised if they ever ban that one. Totally agree with your assessment though.

[CrazyCowboy]

I personally do not mind the little celebrations......kinda funny

[icyhot]

I said on another thread that there was a thread about TO celebrations. People couldn't wait to see what celebrations TO would do and what they wanted to see him do. Now that he celebrates now there are over 100 threads condeming his celebrations. So which is it? Does it matter? That wasn't the reason we lost the game. There is plenty of blame to go around,but to single one guy out is rediculous. Blame him for the drop yes. If you blame him, you need to blame others as well,from coaching all the way down to special teams.

[Doomsday101]

I said on another thread that there was a thread about TO celebrations. People couldn't wait to see what celebrations TO would do and what they wanted to see him do. Now that he celebrates now there are over 100 threads condeming his celebrations. So which is it? Does it matter? That wasn't the reason we lost the game. There is plenty of blame to go around,but to single one guy out is rediculous. Blame him for the drop yes. If you blame him, you need to blame others as well,from coaching all the way down to special teams.

I have said from the get go that doing stupid things in the end zone to cost the team is not needed be it TO or any other player. Dallas makes enough mistakes as is we don't need to go out of our way to make any more. This team has a lot to prove and until they do that I would suggest handing the ball to the ref and go celebrate on the sidelines with your teammates. What is more important? the endzone stunts or winning football games?

[WV Cowboy]

If the NFL were serious they would make a new rule that all TD celebrations take place on the sidelines.

Any TD celebrations done in the EZ or on the field would nullify the play, thus negating the TD.

I'm thinking the celebrations would stop real quick.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Yes but as Owens said..."It's what I do"

I still can't believe a fellow team member didn't get in his face for that.

THAT said a lot to me.

I hate the goofy TD celebrations esp when they give us a penalty.

But make no mistake about it, most team mates don't care about that stuff and many actually get a big kick out of it.

Maybe it is just a different mentality these days esp with such a prima donna position.

[Doomsday101]

I think it will be interesting what happens on the next Dallas TD. I don't think Bill will tolerate that the way this team is playing right now.

[royhitshard]

What I don't understand is how it is hilarious when Chad Johnson does it, but it is destroying the team when TO does it. (according to the media)

Personally, I do not like the celebrations and prefer they had the ball to the ref.

[khiladi]

But this was planned and he simply didn't give a crap.

And from the looks of it, no one else did either.



Ah yes... but ESPN can do a commercial with Chad Johnson plotting what he is going to do next in the end-zone...

And we will all find it funny when they pan the camera to CJ when he scores a touchdown to see what dance he has come up with this time..

At least TO is not getting paid to do commercials about his 'selfish-ness'...

[Stautner]

The Lambeu leap needs to be the first to go.

If ever there was a celebration that could be deemed "excessive", then the the one they do in Green Bay fits that to a tee.

Jumping in the stands is considered less "excessive" than laying down and pretending you're sleeping. The irony boggles my mind. How stupid.

I disagree with this completely. The "Lambeau Leap" began as a spontaneous thing, and though it developed into a tradition, it was never the pre-planned theatrical production that TO and Chad Johnson and Steve Smith developed, and it is much closer to the kind of quick, get it over and done show of emotion after a TD that the NFL allows (and should allow).

[WV Cowboy]

Stop the presses, it must be Friday the 13th or something, Doomsday101 and I agreed.:D

Other than the game, .. have a good weekend Dooms ?

[Juke99]

Ah yes... but ESPN can do a commercial with Chad Johnson plotting what he is going to do next in the end-zone...

And we will all find it funny when they pan the camera to CJ when he scores a touchdown to see what dance he has come up with this time..

At least TO is not getting paid to do commercials about his 'selfish-ness'...

Huh?

:confused:

Must be cool to be able to speak for what "we will ALL" find funny.

[Juke99]

Stop the presses, it must be Friday the 13th or something, Doomsday101 and I agreed.:D

Other than the game, .. have a good weekend Dooms ?

He's just setting you up for the kill shot. :D

[Doomsday101]

Stop the presses, it must be Friday the 13th or something, Doomsday101 and I agreed.:D

Other than the game, .. have a good weekend Dooms ?

I think we may agree on more than you relize. As for the weekend it was going pretty good until about 3:15 cent. time and then it fell apart. :laugh2:

[crazytown41]

Negadting a TD for a celebrationg?

YOu have a better chance having a college football playoffs than that ever happening.

People take this game waaaay too seriously. Players want to have fun when they score a TD. It's a game!!!

[Cowboy4ever]

I can't for the life of me see why a TD celebration is a penalty anyway. Who cares,, its a game,, its about having fun.. if it hurts the feelings of the other team.. here's a thought.. don't let them score. Its a stupid rule that don't hurt anyone at all.

[khiladi]

I disagree with this completely. The "Lambeau Leap" began as a spontaneous thing, and though it developed into a tradition, it was never the pre-planned theatrical production that TO and Chad Johnson and Steve Smith developed, and it is much closer to the kind of quick, get it over and done show of emotion after a TD that the NFL allows (and should allow).


No difference... celebrating in the NFL IN GENERAL began as something spontaneous and evolved into what it is now... and it is not even close to true these 3 receivers have developed it that much... Ernest Givens "Electric Shake" was being done in the mid-80s and that shake still is one of the most innovative dances the NFL has done...

this has been going on for over 20 years.... "Ikky Shuffle"...

[icyhot]

What I don't understand is how it is hilarious when Chad Johnson does it, but it is destroying the team when TO does it. (according to the media)

Personally, I do not like the celebrations and prefer they had the ball to the ref.
Speaking of Chad Johnson last night he called his team out saying he wasn't being used right. Hmm don't hear the talking heads in the media talking about it. All I want is people to be consistent. If you bash TO fine,but bash others who are doing the same,or even worst as well.

[Doomsday101]

He's just setting you up for the kill shot. :D

Naw I just don't tolerate non-sense by high priced players as much as others do. I respect TO athletic ability but I think he has a 10 cent brain to go along with the 10 mill dollar talent. While me and WV disagree on some issue I actually think highly of him as a poster.

[Muhast]

everyone at the bar thought it was hilarious. Maybe it's just your taste vs. my taste type thing.

I think its funny, and brings the FUN element to the game.

Now players celebrating on a kickoff tackle like Wash player did 2 or 3 times needs to go.. NYG shooting jump shots 2 times a series or so needs to go.

A player scoring and celebrating is fine in my book however.

just my thought

[Hoov]

i dont mind the goofy td celebrations at all. but when a player scores and gets in another players face or spikes the ball in their direction or (before the helmet rule) takes the helmet off and talks smack, that should be penalized, whenever it is done in a manner that is an act of agression it should be taunting penalty, but other than that, let them play and celebrate. its fun.

the whole reason that penalties for excessive celebration started is to prevent fights and cheap shots or late hits cause a player got taunted.

[SkinsandTerps]

Chad Johnson has not trash talked his QB or OCs. Thats the bottom line.

As far as the celebration penalties, I blame the Dallas Cowboys for the way it is being called now, and how it became a bad thing to celebrate.

[Doomsday101]

Negadting a TD for a celebrationg?

YOu have a better chance having a college football playoffs than that ever happening.

People take this game waaaay too seriously. Players want to have fun when they score a TD. It's a game!!!

It is a game in High School and College as well and the players manage to play the game without the stunts. In the NFL you get paid so you can afford to go out and have fun and enjoy a life style others dream about. If the NFL wants to end this endzone stunts altogether they can very easily do it

[Juke99]

Naw I just don't tolerate non-sense by high priced players as much as others do. I respect TO athletic ability but I think he has a 10 cent brain to go along with the 10 mill dollar talent. While me and WV disagree on some issue I actually think highly of him as a poster.

Well you and I agree about "the player"

:)

Oh and on "the poster" too.

[khiladi]

Chad Johnson has not trash talked his QB or OCs. Thats the bottom line.

As far as the celebration penalties, I blame the Dallas Cowboys for the way it is being called now, and how it became a bad thing to celebrate.


Cha Johnson just called out his coaches, saying he is not being used right... Rudy Johnson went off last week about how they are not using him right... An Arizon defenseive lineman just went off this week about how the locker room is divided, and people are playing like it's high school and not business.. he was directly question HALF the attitude of the players... Tiki Barber a couple of years ago went off on his own coach, as well as Strahan... San Diego's coach was criticized by his players for holding the offense back earlier in the year, to the extent that he went public to defend himself...

[Hoov]

The NFL wanst to get a handle on some things but if it takes over the spontaneity of the game too much no one will watch, it is an entertainment business after all.

If the NFL made a TD null and void because a player celebrated, only the ultimate die hard football fans would still watch. The NFL is trying to generate more intrest from the youth, not squash it.

[SkinsandTerps]

Cha Johnson just called out his coaches, saying he is not being used right... Rudy Johnson went off last week about how they are not using him right... An Arizon defenseive lineman just went off this week about how the locker room is divided, and people are playing like it's high school and not business.. he was directly question HALF the attitude of the players... Tiki Barber a couple of years ago went off on his own coach, as well as Strahan...

Thats calling out his coaches ? Thats telling them not to talk to him anymore ? Thats saying his QB is gay ? Thats saying his QB is the one that got tired ? Thats his making fun of himself falling asleep in a meeting ?

Chad Johnson and TO are the ones we're talking about. Not Tiki, Strahan, Rudi, etc.

[Doomsday101]

The NFL wanst to get a handle on some things but if it takes over the spontaneity of the game too much no one will watch, it is an entertainment business after all.

If the NFL made a TD null and void because a player celebrated, only the ultimate die hard football fans would still watch. The NFL is trying to generate more intrest from the youth, not squash it.

People will watch because they love football. I really do not know anyone who watches football every week just to see dancing in the endzone. The game is what most people love. College pulls big time ratings yet there is no endzone celebrations allowed, NFL allows it but they are trying to get some control over it.

[khiladi]

Thats calling out his coaches ? Thats telling them not to talk to him anymore ? Thats saying his QB is gay ? Thats saying his QB is the one that got tired ? Thats his making fun of himself falling asleep in a meeting ?


Yeah, that is calling out coaches, especially when that coach goes public to defend himself... that's calling out players when you say that they are playing like they played in high school, i.e. for their girlfriends..


Chad Johnson and TO are the ones we're talking about. Not Tiki, Strahan, Rudi, etc.

Actually, it's TO people are talking about.. To quote:


Chad Johnson has not trash talked his QB or OCs. Thats the bottom line.


Chad has just called out his coaches... Rudi has just called out his coaches.. They all celebrate in the end-zone... I don't hear anybody complaining, yet they do the same things TO is accused of doing...

Last time I checked since TO has been in Dallas, he hasn't called his quarterback gay...

[crazytown41]

It is a game in High School and College as well and the players manage to play the game without the stunts. In the NFL you get paid so you can afford to go out and have fun and enjoy a life style others dream about. If the NFL wants to end this endzone stunts altogether they can very easily do it
Bottomeline is that the NFL would NEVER have such a rule. Negating a TD cause you celebrated?? Might as well cancel out HR's if you watch it too long. Or negate 2 points if you dunk too hard.

It's not gonna happen. This isn't pee-wee football. And you really think the players union would agree on that??:laugh2:

[Doomsday101]

Bottomeline is that the NFL would NEVER have such a rule. Negating a TD cause you celebrated?? Might as well cancel out HR's if you watch it too long. Or negate 2 points if you dunk too hard.

It's not gonna happen. This isn't pee-wee football. And you really think the players union would agree on that??:laugh2:

I agree that the league will not go that far as to negating the TD however they will get in under control and as coaches see players killing them with 15 yarders many coaches will put their foot down. Lastly your right this is not pee-wee football so what do some feel the need to act like it is pee-wee football? It is the game that makes this league great it always has and always will. Players come and go the game survives because people love the game.

[icyhot]

Thats calling out his coaches ? Thats telling them not to talk to him anymore ? Thats saying his QB is gay ? Thats saying his QB is the one that got tired ? Thats his making fun of himself falling asleep in a meeting ?

Chad Johnson and TO are the ones we're talking about. Not Tiki, Strahan, Rudi, etc.
So what my point is be consistent. Bring another point that all these rule changes are because Cowboys are doing it,which speaks to me as being bias. From taking off your helmet to Horse Collar. Fine is you want to blast TO just be consistent with others as well.

[WV Cowboy]

The NFL wanst to get a handle on some things but if it takes over the spontaneity of the game too much no one will watch, it is an entertainment business after all.
It's not an entertainment business, .. it is football. Yes, football is entertaining, but nobody watches just to see the celebrations.

If the NFL made a TD null and void because a player celebrated, only the ultimate die hard football fans would still watch. The NFL is trying to generate more intrest from the youth, not squash it.

My point was if the NFL wanted to stop it, that would make players stop.

I don't think it would ever have to be enforced.

Let them celebrate on the sidelines.

Even if you stop the celebrations, people will still watch.

[Stautner]

No difference... celebrating in the NFL IN GENERAL began as something spontaneous and evolved into what it is now... and it is not even close to true these 3 receivers have developed it that much... Ernest Givens "Electric Shake" was being done in the mid-80s and that shake still is one of the most innovative dances the NFL has done...

this has been going on for over 20 years.... "Ikky Shuffle"...

There is a difference - the Lambeau Leap is a quick display of emotion, much like jumping into a teammates arms - and that's the key. Pretending to fall asleep in the endzone or talking on a cell phone planted in the end zone or pulling out a Sharpie are not displays of emotion, they are pre-planned one act plays.

The NFL isn't trying to curb emotion, they are trying to curb choreographed theatrics meant to draw attention to one's self and away from the game. That's why TO's arm swinging display a few weeks ago was allowed but his sleeping act wasn't.

[Sam I Am]

I hate selective inforcement. In the Colts game, they spike the football (not a crime as far as I know) The ball bounces at a Patriots player (clearly it wasn't intentional) it's a penalty, if it doesn't then no foul. How do you dem something excessive? TO laid down like he was sleeping (penalty) but jumping into the stands is not excessive. Pretending to shoot a basket ball (as long as the whole team doesn't do it together) is not excessive. It's stupid.

I tell you one other thing that pissed me off last night in the Colts game. The judge (not sure who it was) was behind the QB on a QB sneak by Brady. Seeing the reply several times you couldn't tell if he actually made it or not, yet this judge who in no way could have actually see if he crossed the line calls a first down without measuring and has them move the sticks before even the booth can review which they did and you still couldn't tell if he crossed the line which he just let go anyhow.

The quality of refereeing in the NFL I've noticed is starting to drop to the level of the NBA in some games.

[SultanOfSix]

I disagree with this completely. The "Lambeau Leap" began as a spontaneous thing, and though it developed into a tradition, it was never the pre-planned theatrical production that TO and Chad Johnson and Steve Smith developed, and it is much closer to the kind of quick, get it over and done show of emotion after a TD that the NFL allows (and should allow).

So, something that is spontaneous (if that is supposedly how the "Lambeau Leap" came about which is probably debatable), is now the determining factor in what is "excessive" celebration and what isn't?

Also, how do you know TO planned this? He could have done it just as spontaneously as well, and his "excessive celebration" was also shorter than the the leap which fits the excessive label perfectly.

[Hoov]

People will watch because they love football. I really do not know anyone who watches football every week just to see dancing in the endzone. The game is what most people love. College pulls big time ratings yet there is no endzone celebrations allowed, NFL allows it but they are trying to get some control over it.

I would bet a bunch that if you take away TD's from players that celebrate (and beleive me, some of them will still do it) fans will get fed up with the nfl very fast. Especially if it costs your team a game or two and they miss playoffs. You cannot control everyones behavior by increasing the severity of the penalty to the extremes.

[Stautner]

So, something that is spontaneous (if that is supposedly how the "Lambeau Leap" came about which is probably debatable), is now the determining factor in what is "excessive" celebration and what isn't?

Also, how do you know TO planned this? He could have done it just as spontaneously as well, and his "excessive celebration" was also shorter than the the leap which fits the excessive label perfectly.

Spontaneous is "A" factor, but not the only one. You must have conveniently missed my previous comments about shows of emotion as opposed to pre-meditated, choreographed one act plays. That is a much bigger difference.

[WV Cowboy]

You cannot control everyones behavior by increasing the severity of the penalty to the extremes.

Yes, yes you can, ... or at least in this case you can.

I don't think any player would celebrate his own TD if that meant they would take HIS TD away.

I just don't think they would still do it, ... why would they if it meant what they just did wouldn't count ?

We would soon forget EZ celebrations and move forward with football.

[SultanOfSix]

Spontaneous is "A" factor, but not the only one. You must have conveniently missed my previous comments about shows of emotion as opposed to pre-meditated, choreographed one act plays. That is a much bigger difference.

No, I saw it. Your point is still irrelevant because it isn't possible to prove that an act is spontaneous or pre-meditated on the football field now that props aren't allowed.

[Hoov]

It's not an entertainment business, .. it is football. Yes, football is entertaining, but nobody watches just to see the celebrations.



My point was if the NFL wanted to stop it, that would make players stop.

I don't think it would ever have to be enforced.

Let them celebrate on the sidelines.

Even if you stop the celebrations, people will still watch.

But it is an entertainment business at the NFL level. Football is a sport that people like you and I respect and admire and even love. But we are not representative of the whole NFL audience, i know many people who watch football but dont really get it and would never consider chatting on a message board anything but a waste of time. furthermore, many of them dont even know their teams win-loss record or who they play next week. for a lot of poeple, its just a stupid game but its a time to drink beer and yell at the tv for the guy with the ball to run harder. and the more ratings tv gets, the more money flows into the nfl, the more hype a star gets, the more nfl paraphanelia gets sold and thats more money to the nfl.

Why do you think those clowns get to broadcast MNF, because someone in the nfl wants to lighten the mood, keep things funny and lively to generate more intrest from people that are ho-hum about football. Thats why they protect qb's more and more and call PI so stiffly, they want more scoring to make the nfl more fun, more exciting.

For you and me it is less exciting because we see the sacred game getting tarnished, but for the average joe that did not grow up loving football, they dont see the beauty of hard fought smashmouth football game with great blocking and tackling and nasty hitting. The average Joe gets excited about a broken play that goes 50 yards and involved 5 blown tackles from poor defensive effort or a qb and wr playing simple game of catch all day because the rules favor wr so much and they call it a great play.

Everything is driven by getting more intrest (even now the nfl is trying to genereate intrest in other countries by playing preseason games all over the world) so that it will equate to more dollars.

[WV Cowboy]

But it is an entertainment business at the NFL level. Football is a sport that people like you and I respect and admire and even love. But we are not representative of the whole NFL audience, i know many people who watch football but dont really get it and would never consider chatting on a message board anything but a waste of time. furthermore, many of them dont even know their teams win-loss record or who they play next week. for a lot of poeple, its just a stupid game but its a time to drink beer and yell at the tv for the guy with the ball to run harder. and the more ratings tv gets, the more money flows into the nfl, the more hype a star gets, the more nfl paraphanelia gets sold and thats more money to the nfl.

Why do you think those clowns get to broadcast MNF, because someone in the nfl wants to lighten the mood, keep things funny and lively to generate more intrest from people that are ho-hum about football. Thats why they protect qb's more and more and call PI so stiffly, they want more scoring to make the nfl more fun, more exciting.

For you and me it is less exciting because we see the sacred game getting tarnished, but for the average joe that did not grow up loving football, they dont see the beauty of hard fought smashmouth football game with great blocking and tackling and nasty hitting. The average Joe gets excited about a broken play that goes 50 yards and involved 5 blown tackles from poor defensive effort or a qb and wr playing simple game of catch all day because the rules favor wr so much and they call it a great play.

Everything is driven by getting more intrest (even now the nfl is trying to genereate intrest in other countries by playing preseason games all over the world) so that it will equate to more dollars.

As I read through your post, I agreed with EVERY SINGLE WORD !! (you dog you)

But I still say even if there were no celebrations, .. ALL OF US would still watch for all of the reasons you mention above, .. and that was the only point I was trying to make here.

[Clove]

NO offense, but what does this penalty have to do with the out come of this game? NADA!!!!! If you don't believe me, just go back and watch the entire game. I didn't like the celebration, but we have more important issues to discuss about this horrible game, like Parcells giving up an entire minute and ten seconds at the end of the game we could've used to get us closer to the field goal, or even a touch down.

[Derinyar]

There are several levels of entertainment. The sporting event is one level, I hope thats the level we all watch for. The celebrations, from meaningless tackles to sacks to TD's, are a different level. I for one know I wouldn't watch less if players didn't do some of the stupid celebrations. If TO didn't know that would get him play on Sports Center for most of the next week, he wouldn't do it.

[Stautner]

No, I saw it. Your point is still irrelevant because it isn't possible to prove that an act is spontaneous or pre-meditated on the football field now that props aren't allowed.

Really? You think the sleeping thing just popped in TO's mind immediately after scoring a TD?

Have you ever scored a TD or slid into home or sunk a key basket?

If you have you would know how ridiculous your comment is. In those situations you want to jump up and down, receive the adualation of teammates, show your joy.

Laying down and feigning sleep is not a spontanous or instantaneous reaction, nor is it a display of emotion.

The Lambeau Leap is not choreographed - it isn't intended to accomplish anything other than as a quick display of emotion shared with fans.

If you personally don't mind the TO type of "celebration" that's fine - that's an opinion you have a right to, but to act as if feigning sleep is anything more than a choreographed one act play designed to call attention to an individual is both ridiculous and mindless.

[Hoov]

As I read through your post, I agreed with EVERY SINGLE WORD !! (you dog you)

But I still say even if there were no celebrations, .. ALL OF US would still watch for all of the reasons you mention above, .. and that was the only point I was trying to make here.

Yes WV, i would still watch and you would too.

And as PO'd as i get about the cowboys from time to time, as soon as i see the players wearing the star and warming up pregame, all the crap from last week seems to just disappear and its game time all over again with a fresh start and i have to watch.

[SultanOfSix]

Really? You think the sleeping thing just popped in TO's mind immediately after scoring a TD?

Have you ever scored a TD or slid into home or sunk a key basket?

If you have you would know how ridiculous your comment is. In those situations you want to jump up and down, receive the adualation of teammates, show your joy.

Laying down and feigning sleep is not a spontanous or instantaneous reaction, nor is it a display of emotion.

The Lambeau Leap is not choreographed - it isn't intended to accomplish anything other than as a quick display of emotion shared with fans.

If you personally don't mind the TO type of "celebration" that's fine - that's an opinion you have a right to, but to act as if feigning sleep is anything more than a choreographed one act play designed to call attention to an individual is both ridiculous and mindless.

Why not? You're assuming the "Lambeau Leap" was some spontaneous reaction. Who's to say that one day a GB Packer was in the locker room, came up with the idea, and said "Hey, if we score a touchdown, let's all jump in the stands to celebrate with the fans?"

Can you read TO's mind?

And my point had to do with actually proving that something is pre-mediated or not, which refs can't do. It's impossible.

[Grim21Reaper]

Yes but as Owens said..."It's what I do"

I still can't believe a fellow team member didn't get in his face for that.

THAT said a lot to me.


If no one on the Cowboys did anything when Haynesworth committed an assault on your center, what makes you think anyone is going to say something to Owens over this?

[icyhot]

NO offense, but what does this penalty have to do with the out come of this game? NADA!!!!! If you don't believe me, just go back and watch the entire game. I didn't like the celebration, but we have more important issues to discuss about this horrible game, like Parcells giving up an entire minute and ten seconds at the end of the game we could've used to get us closer to the field goal, or even a touch down.
exactlly my point

[WV Cowboy]

.. as soon as i see the players wearing the star and warming up pregame, all the crap from last week seems to just disappear and its game time all over again with a fresh start and i have to watch.

I hear ya my friend.

[Doomsday101]

I would bet a bunch that if you take away TD's from players that celebrate (and beleive me, some of them will still do it) fans will get fed up with the nfl very fast. Especially if it costs your team a game or two and they miss playoffs. You cannot control everyones behavior by increasing the severity of the penalty to the extremes.

The league can control it. If players want to cost their team I would think that team will not tolerate the player. Look college has no problem with it I don't know why grown men have an issue with it. I'm sorry I don't watch football to see guys acting like idiots I watch it because I love the game.

[LaTunaNostra]

NO offense, but what does this penalty have to do with the out come of this game? NADA!!!!! If you don't believe me, just go back and watch the entire game. I didn't like the celebration, but we have more important issues to discuss about this horrible game, like Parcells giving up an entire minute and ten seconds at the end of the game we could've used to get us closer to the field goal, or even a touch down.

The penalty ended up not effecting the outcome of the game, unless you are willing to build some kind of esoteric chain-reaction case, hypothetical series of events of what coulda-shoulda-woulda.

And I'm not. :rolleyes:

It's the long term effect of selfishness that concerns me. It's the character of the team that worries me. It's lack of unity and sportsmanship.

I loathe selfishness, and self-aggrandizing premeditated displays that cost yardage..it reflects putting the individual before the team. And that is imo, the worst thing a player can do - put his own ego before the team's good.

I belabored this enough last night, but I feel bad for Owens that he dropped that ball. That was not his 'crime' last night - no one is perfect.

But for once again exalting himself over his team, he deserves to be castigated - regardless of the short term outcome of his act.

Team character, like individual character - it's what matters most. Not just for the obvious 'moral reason' that commitment to team is always preferable to selfishness, but because in today's 'parity' laden NFL, team character..cohesion, unity, moral toughness, is what will separate the winners from equally talented losers.

[icyhot]

Before the Philly game there was a long thread about saying what celebration they wanted TO to do. The first game in Jax people came on here wanting him to celebrate when we were down. He tossed th eball to the ref. Now that he does celebrate on a play that puts us up by a TD,people want to criticize him. I can see if you get on him for a dropped pass. Get on the others as well. My point is be consistent and criticize the others as well. Just my point.

[Doomsday101]

Before the Philly game there was a long thread about saying what celebration they wanted TO to do. The first game in Jax people came on here wanting him to celebrate when we were down. He tossed th eball to the ref. Now that he does celebrate on a play that puts us up by a TD,people want to criticize him. I can see if you get on him for a dropped pass. Get on the others as well. My point is be consistent and criticize the others as well. Just my point.

I have unlike a lot of folks I don't watch football to see the lastest dance. I also think anything that hurts the team needs to stop. Dallas has enough problems they don't need to create more by doing stupid things, matter of fact this team needs to learn how to stop shooting themselfs in the foot not excuses for stupid actions.

[Stautner]

Why not? You're assuming the "Lambeau Leap" was some spontaneous reaction. Who's to say that one day a GB Packer was in the locker room, came up with the idea, and said "Hey, if we score a touchdown, let's all jump in the stands to celebrate with the fans?"

Can you read TO's mind?

And my point had to do with actually proving that something is pre-mediated or not, which refs can't do. It's impossible.

By your standard we can never convict someone of premeditated murder because despite all the evidence that the act was premeditated we still don't know "what's in the man's mind".

Baloney - common sense and lessons of history have to mean something and I suspect (at least hope) in your personal life you realize that.

Heck, even TO, Chad Johnson, Steve Smith and others have publically said the acts were pre-planned - how much more evidence do you need? Your argument isn't even supported by those who commit the acts.

Somewhere logic and common sense have to take place. It may be "possible" for a single incident like TO's to be spontaneous, but it IS NOT possible for multiple incidents like that to be spontaneous.

Besides, you are completely locked onto one issue. You are ignoring the "display of emotion" aspect. As I said before, and you chose to ignore, the NFL isn't trying to curb emotional responses, just the deliberate little one man plays. The Lambeau Leap is within the bounds of how men have always responded in emotional situations (high fives, back slapping, leaping in each others arms, acknowledging the crowd), but 100 years of football history tells us that pantomiming a putt on a golf course or pretending to row a boat or feigning sleep on the field are not emotional responses.

Only an idiot would suggest these are all acts born out of an emotional response and conceived on the spur of the moment.

[THUMPER]

Next year they should make the rule that touchdowns are taken away for excessive celebrating. See if coaches can control their players then.

Between that and the theatre productions that are put on for reviews, it's clear the NFL just plays the game but isnt serious about fixing the issue.

I'm so sick of seeing morons like TO making of themselves. Totally childish.

For reviews, they should just review and fix in the first 15 seconds, without all the theatrics. Fans in the stands hate the delay but it does create additional commercial time outs :)

I'd like to see a rule that whenever any player does some celebration that draws attention to themselves that the other players from both are REQUIRED to run over and pummel him mercilessly. If any player refrains from joining in he will be fined. The use of helmets as weapons will be encouraged.

In the case of the "Lambeau Leap" the security guards will be required to shoot the player anywhere below the waist.

That would eliminate in one season any and all self-agrandizing celebrations and we could get back to playing football as a TEAM sport.

It would also help to reduce ESPN to a primetime newscast instead of 24 continuous hours of dances, celebrations, and controversies.