Am I crazy...

[Danny White]

Or is Tony Romo a better QB than Eli Manning?

I really think I like Romo about 100% better than Manning (Eli, that is).

[PakiPride]

Yur right

[theogt]

Or is Tony Romo a better QB than Eli Manning?

I really think I like Romo about 100% better than Manning (Eli, that is).I think that's pretty obvious. Eli has never put up numbers like Romo puts up.

[InmanRoshi]

He's a lot more accurate. That should be obvious to even the most casual of observer.

His accuracy is still atrocious and it's year 3. How much longer before you just have to say this is who he is?

[theogt]

He's a lot more accurate. That should be obvious to even the most casual of observer.To the more than casual observer it's obvious that he goes through his reads quicker and has a quicker release. I'd say he has better pocket presence as well because Manning continually takes boneheaded sacks.

[Ken]

It is not even a question.

When I was watching Manning during this game, i kept expecting so much more than what he did. Romo has me spoiled.

Romo's play has been on par with the best in the league these past three games.

I just hope no one wakes me up.

[jrumann59]

Romo has had more time in the NFL to absorb the gameat the NFL level Eli pretty much got thrown to wolves. I think Romo has a couple of 11/25 120yd 2 int games coming.

[Dale]

I haven't seen enough of Romo to make the comparison. But I have seen enough of Eli to know he's maddeningly inconsistent.

He throws daggers at time, where he seemingly can't miss. Then he starts looking like he doesn't know what the heck he's doing.

For all the comparisons to the brother, he's nowhere near his league.

[InmanRoshi]

Romo has had more time in the NFL to absorb the gameat the NFL level Eli pretty much got thrown to wolves. I think Romo has a couple of 11/25 120yd 2 int games coming.

Funny, for the last few years all I was told is you learn nothing standing on the sidelines and the only way a QB develops is when you're thrown to the wolves.

But seriously, Manning came into the NFL much more prepared having played 4 years in the SEC compared to Romo coming from Division II. Romo had a lot bigger learning curve. Not to mention Eli was groomed in a football family.

[rexrobinson]

Tony Romo is just an enigma and if he continues to be as consistant as he has shown the past 3 games, then we have to consider ourselves unbelievably lucky.

We got him for nothing, he came from no where and we just signed him to what would equal decent back up QB money for a few years. He not only is helping us on the field but in the pocketbook when when need to sign next years FAs.

[jrumann59]

Tony Romo is just an enigma and if he continues to be as consistant as he has shown the past 3 games, then we have to consider ourselves unbelievably lucky.

We got him for nothing, he came from no where and we just signed him to what would equal decent back up QB money for a few years. He not only is helping us on the field but in the pocketbook when when need to sign next years FAs.

Actually i think Jerry would be stupid not to give him a raise at the end of the season if all goes well.

[percyhoward]

I just hope no one wakes me up.

:hammer:

[yesfan]

I haven't seen enough of Romo to make the comparison. But I have seen enough of Eli to know he's maddeningly inconsistent.

He throws daggers at time, where he seemingly can't miss. Then he starts looking like he doesn't know what the heck he's doing.

For all the comparisons to the brother, he's nowhere near his league.

Your absolutely right,but it has paid off for him very well
being a Manning.The chorus of boos tonight was sweet.I
think this guy is actually what Bill means by " bus driver "

[Mansta54]

Or is Tony Romo a better QB than Eli Manning?

I really think I like Romo about 100% better than Manning (Eli, that is).



No doubt!!!!!!

[Danny White]

After the Carolina game, my friend and I (both Cowboys fans) were talking to a co-worker of ours who follows the NFL closely but isn't a Cowboys fan. We stated that we'd take Romo over half the QB's in the league. He said we were crazy, and then we proceeded to go through all the starting QBs.

The long and short of it was that we realized that it was just to early to tell when you're comparing him to guys like Leinart and Grossman, etc.

Now, after two more games, I can only think of 2 or maybe 3 guys who I'd definitely take over Romo. It just seems crazy, but it's true.

[Sitting Bull]

Or is Tony Romo a better QB than Eli Manning?

I really think I like Romo about 100% better than Manning (Eli, that is).

Romo's really impressed me with his poise and ability to sense the rush. That third down he converted with his legs in the second half was a savvy, vet move- and he didn't hesitate for a second. Bledsoe would've been a potted plant on at least three of our third down conversions today. I don't know what Romo's stats look like in that category, but I know it feels like we've got a chance on obvious passing downs now. I like our guy...

[Da Hammer]

Romo>>>Manning

Romo just knows how to read to quickly read a defense which is something Manning in his 3rd year as a starter still cant do, Romo is hardly sacked which is something that Eli allows a lot, and Romo never gets too low which is something Eli does a lot when they get down although i wont completely blame Eli as it can be easy having idiots like Burress and Shockey always complaining when they dont get the ball

[Hostile]

Or is Tony Romo a better QB than Eli Manning?

I really think I like Romo about 100% better than Manning (Eli, that is).How many NFL teams do you think would take him over Eli if they both were available and cost the same?

[Bryan8284]

Isn't it a nice feeling to have? Knowing your QB position is seemingly set right now.

I forgot the feeling.

[TheSkaven]

How many NFL teams do you think would take him over Eli if they both were available and cost the same?If you put them both on the same practice field without their jersey colors, numbers or names on the back, I think most all would pick Romo. Unfortunately, pedigree counts for much in the NFL.

I am happy with what we've got, but next week will be a great test. We'll have to put up three or four offensive touchdowns to win the game. It feels like the game could be an old AFC-style shoot out.

[dogunwo]

Romo's really impressed me with his poise and ability to sense the rush. That third down he converted with his legs in the second half was a savvy, vet move- and he didn't hesitate for a second. Bledsoe would've been a potted plant on at least three of our third down conversions today. I don't know what Romo's stats look like in that category, but I know it feels like we've got a chance on obvious passing downs now. I like our guy...
I know I feel like we have a chance on 3rd and long now with RomoCop at the helm. With Drew, and I like Drew, I was thinking about field position on the punt.

[CrazyCowboy]

Funny how we ALL like winners!

[chinch]

How many NFL teams do you think would take him over Eli if they both were available and cost the same?
this is not what was asked.

of course "NFL teams" (ie. the GM/owners) would take the name-brand... the same ones who draft the Ryan Leafs of the world every first round.

thing is that Eli really is not a QB that is doing anything great for the most part yet... maybe he will, maybe he wont. he' clearly hasn't yet.

he barely reads the D, he's inaccurate, inconsistant and makes alot of dumb throws (first TD vs Dal a prime example - should have been INT). what he does do well is chuck it up and allow his large WRs make plays on the ball. eventually that catches up with you. i'm also wondering if he has silver-spoon syndrome... different from a guy who's neck is on the line every day. if Romo or some lesser NAME QB made the same throws writers/fans would be going crazy mad. But his name gives him alot of excuses, longer learning curve and longer leash.

[Hostile]

this is not what was asked.

of course "NFL teams" (ie. the GM/owners) would take the name-brand... the same ones who draft the Ryan Leafs of the world every first round.

thing is that Eli really is not a QB that is doing anything great for the most part yet... maybe he will, maybe he wont. he' clearly hasn't yet.

he barely reads the D, he's inaccurate, inconsistant and makes alot of dumb throws (first TD vs Dal a prime example - should have been INT). what he does do well is chuck it up and allow his large WRs make plays on the ball. eventually that catches up with you. i'm also wondering if he has silver-spoon syndrome... different from a guy who's neck is on the line every day. if Romo or some lesser NAME QB made the same throws writers/fans would be going crazy mad. But his name gives him alot of excuses, longer learning curve and longer leash.It is what I asked. Consider it my contribution to the thought process that I would actually consider what NFL teams might decide as relevant. Does that mean they are right and Cowboys fans are wrong? No, but it is still relevant and I will stick with my query if you don't mind, and even if you do.

[dmq]

I have thought about bringing this subject up to a co-worker that is a Giants fan, but you know no Giant fan is gonna agree. It is way too early to say anything. Romo has played well against Carolina, Washington and Arizona. Lets see what he does over the next few weeks before we annoint him. Obviously we all like what we see.
I'll say this however, Eli has a wayyyyyy better offensive line and wayyyy better running game. That help alot.
Romo won yesterday inspite of all the penalities, average running game and offensive line play. He deserves a date with Jessica Simpson.

[Danny White]

How many NFL teams do you think would take him over Eli if they both were available and cost the same?

Very few, probably. But which would YOU take? ;)

[Hostile]

Very few, probably. But which would YOU take? ;)Me personally, I'd probably take Manning as I think there is a higher ceiling. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. I'm the QB elitest remember? Not going to change my tune just because there's a new lead singer in town.

[ABQCOWBOY]

At this point, the only young QB I might take over Romo is Palmer.

[TheSkaven]

At this point, the only young QB I might take over Romo is Palmer.If we're going to make a list...

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Michael Vick

.. in that order.

When coming up with that list, it really does remind you of how the quality of the QB position has deteriorated over the past 10 years.

[sonnyboy]

Me personally, I'd probably take Manning as I think there is a higher ceiling. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong. I'm the QB elitest remember? Not going to change my tune just because there's a new lead singer in town.

Need to open your mind my friend. I to was a QB elitest.
Was convinced Henson was our future. Background, physical talent. He was surely gonna come around. Only obsticle was Parcells. Old school, stubborn Parcells insisting that our next franchise had to show him in precamps, training camp and preseason games "something".
What an idiot, didn't he realize that he was holding Henson back! All he need to do was let him get in the games and gain experience.
Romo promoted to backup! What B.S. This obviously a ploy to motovate Henson. Make him work harder, be more of a Parcells type player. We all know that this Romo kid has nowhere near the upside of Henson.

After watching Romo's first preseason start, all these silly thoughts were long gone.
Montana was the best QB to ever play this game! His arm was as unimpressive as his modest physical staure. Why was he the best?
He saw the field better than anyone.
He found the open guy quicker than anyone.
The time between when he decided to throw to someone and the ball leaving his hand was the shortest.
His ability to throw accurate passes.
And above all, his ability to do all of this on the move both in and out of the pocket.

I've seen every preseason and reagular season Romo snap.
From what I've seen, he's the best in these crtical skills since Montana.

[Hostile]

Need to open your mind my friend. I to was a QB elitest.
Was convinced Henson was our future. Background, physical talent. He was surely gonna come around. Only obsticle was Parcells. Old school, stubborn Parcells insisting that our next franchise had to show him in precamps, training camp and preseason games "something".
What an idiot, didn't he realize that he was holding Henson back! All he need to do was let him get in the games and gain experience.
Romo promoted to backup! What B.S. This obviously a ploy to motovate Henson. Make him work harder, be more of a Parcells type player. We all know that this Romo kid has nowhere near the upside of Henson.

After watching Romo's first preseason start, all these silly thoughts were long gone.
Montana was the best QB to ever play this game! His arm was as unimpressive as his modest physical staure. Why was he the best?
He saw the field better than anyone.
He found the open guy quicker than anyone.
The time between when he decided to throw to someone and the ball leaving his hand was the shortest.
His ability to throw accurate passes.
And above all, his ability to do all of this on the move both in and out of the pocket.

I've seen every preseason and reagular season Romo snap.
From what I've seen, he's the best in these crtical skills since Montana.My mind is open, but my honesty is intact. I'll never claim the right to say I knew all along that Romo would be good enough. I will claim the right to be happy when he does well, and critical when he falters. That doesn't mean I will ever change from my belief in elite QBs. I doubt that will ever happen. I know that will piss some people off, and I truly don't care. At least when the final ledger is tallied I won't have ever flip flopped like some of them have.

[ABQCOWBOY]

If we're going to make a list...

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Michael Vick

.. in that order.

When coming up with that list, it really does remind you of how the quality of the QB position has deteriorated over the past 10 years.

I think the dividing line, for me, is age. Manning and Brady are obviously great QBs. The best going right now, IMO, but neither is what I would consider young. I would not trade a young Romo for either of these two simply because I don't see them playing at there current levels for a long time to come. Palmer, I would take in a minute. Vick, I would not take at all. At this point, Vick is averaging just over 50% Comp percentage, 12 TDs, 9 INTs and posting a QB rating of 73.2. Basically, he's playing to his career average. No thank you.

[REDVOLUTION]

Or is Tony Romo a better QB than Eli Manning?

I really think I like Romo about 100% better than Manning (Eli, that is).


and when he smokes Eli's older brother next week you can post

(Peyton that is):D

[ABQCOWBOY]

Need to open your mind my friend. I to was a QB elitest.
Was convinced Henson was our future. Background, physical talent. He was surely gonna come around. Only obsticle was Parcells. Old school, stubborn Parcells insisting that our next franchise had to show him in precamps, training camp and preseason games "something".
What an idiot, didn't he realize that he was holding Henson back! All he need to do was let him get in the games and gain experience.
Romo promoted to backup! What B.S. This obviously a ploy to motovate Henson. Make him work harder, be more of a Parcells type player. We all know that this Romo kid has nowhere near the upside of Henson.

After watching Romo's first preseason start, all these silly thoughts were long gone.
Montana was the best QB to ever play this game! His arm was as unimpressive as his modest physical staure. Why was he the best?
He saw the field better than anyone.
He found the open guy quicker than anyone.
The time between when he decided to throw to someone and the ball leaving his hand was the shortest.
His ability to throw accurate passes.
And above all, his ability to do all of this on the move both in and out of the pocket.

I've seen every preseason and reagular season Romo snap.
From what I've seen, he's the best in these crtical skills since Montana.


I don't know that I would go this far. I think that Brady is pretty good at it as well. Still too early to say with certainty that Romo is on par with those two but he's certainly impressed me with his abilities thus far.

[Maikeru-sama]

There is just not enough film and in-game data on Romo to make that kind of a leap just yet.

Also, reading through this thread I just have to face the fact that "some people" will never like Romo :D .

- Mike G.

[CooterBrown]

Romo's really impressed me with his poise and ability to sense the rush. That third down he converted with his legs in the second half was a savvy, vet move- and he didn't hesitate for a second. Bledsoe would've been a potted plant on at least three of our third down conversions today. I don't know what Romo's stats look like in that category, but I know it feels like we've got a chance on obvious passing downs now. I like our guy...

One thing I've been impressed by is Romo's demeanor on the field. He is having fun. It is a game and he plays it that way. Watch how many times he is laughing and smiling on the field. That kind of relaxation comes from confidence, and instills confidence in the players around him. I think this offense is only going to get better as the season progresses and I think Romo's attitude is a key ingredient.

[sonnyboy]

My mind is open, but my honesty is intact. I'll never claim the right to say I knew all along that Romo would be good enough. I will claim the right to be happy when he does well, and critical when he falters. That doesn't mean I will ever change from my belief in elite QBs. I doubt that will ever happen. I know that will piss some people off, and I truly don't care. At least when the final ledger is tallied I won't have ever flip flopped like some of them have.

Not trying to argue with you, just wondering what you mean by Elite QB or that you're a QB Elitest.
What I ment was a QB with all the physical talents. ie 6-4 to 6-6, 230 to 250, rocket arm, played at highest collegiate level, 1st round draft grade.

I always felt the Cowboys' starting QB had to resemble much of this. Did not want a "limited" player at that most critcal position. Always felt these "limitations" would hurt the most at the highest level of competition.

With that said, my favorite non-Cowboy player has always been Montana. The all time best QB (better than Staubach and Aikman) had none of these ideal measurables.

I guess I'm one of the flip floppers. I like to think I just call it as I see it at the time I see it.

[sonnyboy]

There is just not enough film and in-game data on Romo to make that kind of a leap just yet.

Also, reading through this thread I just have to face the fact that "some people" will never like Romo :D .

- Mike G.

That brings a good question to mind. Just how much game film/in-game data is needed to prove that Romo is a very good if not great QB.
I hope it's not the same amount defensive coordinators need to stop him.
That would suck!:D

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not trying to argue with you, just wondering what you mean by Elite QB or that you're a QB Elitest.
What I ment was a QB with all the physical talents. ie 6-4 to 6-6, 230 to 250, rocket arm, played at highest collegiate level, 1st round draft grade.

I always felt the Cowboys' starting QB had to resemble much of this. Did not want a "limited" player at that most critcal position. Always felt these "limitations" would hurt the most at the highest level of competition.

With that said, my favorite non-Cowboy player has always been Montana. The all time best QB (better than Staubach and Aikman) had none of these ideal measurables.

I guess I'm one of the flip floppers. I like to think I just call it as I see it at the time I see it.

I do not believe Montana was better then Staubach and I don't know that I would say he was the best ever at the position but he was certainly very good. To be honest, Staubach was not a physical speciman either. In fact, he was built much more like Montana then Aikman. I guess you can classify me as a homer but I'm here to tell you that Staubach, IMO, was a better QB then Montana. He just didn't play in an era that allowed him to post the huge passing numbers. JMO, of course.

[ABQCOWBOY]

That brings a good question to mind. Just how much game film/in-game data is needed to prove that Romo is a very good if not great QB.
I hope it's not the same amount defensive coordinators need to stop him.
That would suck!:D

We don't know if he's physically able to play out a 16 game season. That's a big part of being great. After 10 games, your body is not opperating in good condition. Your playing with injuries. Can he play with those injuries? How does he handle the fame and all the pressure that goes along with that? How does he handle losing in a championship game? Does it break him or does he over come it? How does he handle a 5 game stretch where he's saked 4 to 6 times a game, every game. Does he start looking at the rush? All these things and more are ahead for him. You just don't know yet how he will handle these.

[Maikeru-sama]

That brings a good question to mind. Just how much game film/in-game data is needed to prove that Romo is a very good if not great QB.
I hope it's not the same amount defensive coordinators need to stop him.
That would suck!:D

More than 3 1/2 Games.

There are a bunch of teams that have not even faced Romo and have not had the "pleasure" of breaking down his strengths and weaknesses yet.

Romo had a bad game against the Giants, but after that he hasn't come back down to earth yet, if you are talking about his "qualitative" data (what you saw him do as opposed to his numbers).

I think he needs to get at least a full season under his belt to start making those comparisons.

How does Romo handle "higher expectations"? Right now I dont think expectations for him were "higher" than Mannings.

How does Romo handle a backup trying to take his job? Right now, Parcells says the job is his until he is in a hurst.

How does he handle an opponent like the Giants, Eagles, and Skins when they have seen him 2-3 times and have a feel for what he does?

Romo is still a big fat "enigma" at the moment but like the old saying goes, "Time will eventually tell".

Let's not declare the guy one of the elite QBs in the NFL just yet.

- Mike G.

[chinch]

It is what I asked. Consider it my contribution to the thought process that I would actually consider what NFL teams might decide as relevant. Does that mean they are right and Cowboys fans are wrong? No, but it is still relevant and I will stick with my query if you don't mind, and even if you do.
it doesn't add to the thought process in discussing QBs objectively.

we know you would pretty much always go with the big name guy, all things close or equal. some GM/coaches suffer from the same tunnel vision and and it's cost many of them jobs over the years.

[Hostile]

Not trying to argue with you, just wondering what you mean by Elite QB or that you're a QB Elitest.
What I ment was a QB with all the physical talents. ie 6-4 to 6-6, 230 to 250, rocket arm, played at highest collegiate level, 1st round draft grade.

I always felt the Cowboys' starting QB had to resemble much of this. Did not want a "limited" player at that most critcal position. Always felt these "limitations" would hurt the most at the highest level of competition.

With that said, my favorite non-Cowboy player has always been Montana. The all time best QB (better than Staubach and Aikman) had none of these ideal measurables.

I guess I'm one of the flip floppers. I like to think I just call it as I see it at the time I see it.I didn't think you were arguing. By saying I am a QB elitest I suppose I am admitting that I will always favor the blue chips to the Cinderella Stories. This drives some on this forum nuts. They view it as me disliking or even hating our own players. Nothing could be further from the truth, but truth is hardly ever a neighbor in fandom.

In other words, if Tony Romo leads the Cowboys to a victory Sunday I will love the performance. I will not however be a blind homer who then says he is better than Peyton Manning. I don't over react like that. It means he got his team to play better that day. Nothing more.

That isn't a slight of our player in my opinion. Some don't see it that way. What amazes me is that tension over this opinion of mine has always been reserved for the QB position. If I say LaDanian Tomlinson is better than Julius Jones no one gets in a snit over it.

But heaven forbid if I say someone is better than our QB. There is always someone who is offended by this. I make no secret of my hope Henson would get "it." It goes back to that ceiling commentary. I doubt you'll ever find posts where I elevated him to Stauabch, Elway, Favre, and Montana comparisons. If I did it was probably in response to a direct question.

I don't expect Romo to be the next Brady of Favre or to be better than Eli Manning. I just expect him to play well. If we can have a better guy at QB I will be in favor of it. If a better guy can't be found, so be it.

By flip flopping I mean honoring a QB candidate with a username then having to change it. Or blindly praising a guy while he was here, then kicking him after he was gone. I didn't comment when Q was released. I didn't comment when Henson was. I didn't comment when Vinny wasn't re-signed. I didn't comment when Bledsoe was benched. The only thing I've focused on was how well did they play. When it ws good enough I've said so. When it wasn't I said so.

I've criticized every QB we've played when they have played badly. I don't thump my chest and exult in Q's dismissal from the team. I don't go seek out the Bledsoe homers and stick my tongue out at them. I don't go on the Church of Vinny site and rub their noses in it. If Henson had been the guy doing what Romo is I wouldn't be telling everyone who argued with me to bow and worship me.

Overall I've been very consistent. I still believe the Cowboys deserve the best possible QB they can have. I'm not going to change from that opinion. I want the best.

[Hostile]

it doesn't add to the thought process in discussing QBs objectively.

we know you would pretty much always go with the big name guy, all things close or equal. some GM/coaches suffer from the same tunnel vision and and it's cost many of them jobs over the years.It does for those who have thought processes. Not every answer is "yes" or "no."

I'll "suffer" from my tunnel vision gladly.

[chinch]

It does for those who have thought processes. Not every answer is "yes" or "no."

I'll "suffer" from my tunnel vision gladly.
it's not yes or no.... but you can discuss tony vs eli (leave peyton out of it please -- he's on a different stratosphere at this time) without mentioning who denny green and other "head coaches" prefer.

GMs often draft a guy (regardless of coaches input) and then the coach must make the choice work. Maybe coughlin would have drafted a different way, but acorsi wanted Eli at any cost... no "yes" or "no" there either.

[Yeagermeister]

Yes Danny you are crazy.....now as far as your posts is conderned :D

[sonnyboy]

Excuse me ABQCOWBOY and mickgreen58 but would you please stop p***ing on my fantasy with fact and reason!:D

[Rampage]

state this topic at the end of thew year. romo has only played 3 games(though very immpressive) its only 3 games. but SHEli is overrated just cause he is rewlated to peyton

[Hostile]

it's not yes or no.... but you can discuss tony vs eli (leave peyton out of it please -- he's on a different stratosphere at this time) without mentioning who denny green and other "head coaches" prefer.

GMs often draft a guy (regardless of coaches input) and then the coach must make the choice work. Maybe coughlin would have drafted a different way, but acorsi wanted Eli at any cost... no "yes" or "no" there either.If you say so. :rolleyes:

I think there's a lot more to it than that. Fans have the luxury of saying they like their guy better, therefore he is better. GMs and Coaches do not have that luxury. I think that matters in the equation. Thus it isn't yes or no for me until those things are considered.

[Yeagermeister]

state this topic at the end of thew year. romo has onbly played 3 games(though very immpressive) its only 3 games. but SHEli is overrated just cause he is rewlated to peyton

Thanks Elmer ;)

[Rampage]

Thanks Elmer ;)
:lmao2: :laugh2: :laugh2: im not even gonna fix it. i can't beleive it came out like that.

[cowboys19]

Hostile, why do you think Eli has more upside than Tony?

[kmd24]

Hostile, why do you think Eli has more upside than Tony?

I'd like to hear the answer to this, too. As an SEC fan, I am fairly familiar with Eli's strengths and weaknesses, and I don't think he is more physically talented than Romo. He's got 2" of height, that's it.

That only leaves his ability to manage the game, which he still seems to struggle with after three years and 34 starts.

[Hostile]

Hostile, why do you think Eli has more upside than Tony?I didn't say he has more upside, I said he has a higher ceiling. There is a difference be it ever so slight.

The next question should be will he reach that ceiling? I don't know and no one else does either.

Romo may have a lower ceiling and more upside. For instance, Romo comes at a much cheaper price. That is upside. Does that mean more potential, which is ceiling? No, it doesn't.

This is why I said it isn't a simple yes or no answer for me. Eli Manning took his team to an NFC crown last year and has them leading the division again this year. At some point in time that has to count for something.

Note, I'm not calling him (Eli) flawless or a perfect QB. The potential for greatness is higher. That means the potential for disappointment is higher as well. I acknowledge that. That would mean downside.

[sonnyboy]

Hostile, why do you think Eli has more upside than Tony?

Because he's a taller first round pick. Probably has a stronger arm. Did you see some of those rockets he was launching last nite. I was affraid for those Bear safties. I'm sure their was more than one cracked pair of shoulder pads!:D

[sonnyboy]

"Romo may have a lower ceiling and more upside."

No offence, but this makes nooooo sense.

[Hostile]

Because he's a taller first round pick. Probably has a stronger arm. Did you see some of those rockets he was launching last nite. I was affraid for those Bear safties. I'm sure their was more than one cracked pair of shoulder pads!:DYeah, it's as simple as that.

:wink2:

You guys just keep right on believing that.

[Hostile]

"Romo may have a lower ceiling and more upside."

No offence, but this makes nooooo sense.The very next sentence explained what I meant.

[theogt]

I'm not sure it gets any more elite than dating Jessica Simpson. :busty:

:thumbup:

[kmd24]

Romo may have a lower ceiling and more upside. For instance, Romo comes at a much cheaper price. That is upside.

With all due respect, Romo has shown his ceiling to be quite high during the past three games. If somehow Manning's ceiling is higher, then I think it would be safe to say that he is the one with higher upside.

The contracts and draft picks are what you pay to get a chance at a good QB. The odds are higher that you will hit on a great QB when you get a guy with all the physical attributes and the pedigree. But the attributes and the pedigree don't define the potential. They just give some hint to what the potential might be.

After you see the guy play, you can refine your estimates of his potential. We've seen enough of Eli to start refining our estimates, and, IMO, we should refine those estimates downward.

[Hostile]

I'm not sure it gets any more elite than dating Jessica Simpson. :busty:

:thumbup:Eli dated Britney. At one point that got the same wow factor. Leinart dated Paris Hilton and it got the same wow factor. Until any of them officially land one of these girls it doesn't mean much. I'm rooting for Tony in that department too, because I think she is easily the best looking of the 3, and the nicest too.

[theogt]

Eli dated Britney. At one point that got the same wow factor. Leinart dated Paris Hilton and it got the same wow factor. Until any of them officially land one of these girls it doesn't mean much. I'm rooting for Tony in that department too, because I think she is easily the best looking of the 3, and the nicest too.Right. THey're all elite in my book.

[Hostile]

With all due respect, Romo has shown his ceiling to be quite high during the past three games. If somehow Manning's ceiling is higher, then I think it would be safe to say that he is the one with higher upside.If you want to say Eli has a higher ceiling and more upside, that is your right.

The contracts and draft picks are what you pay to get a chance at a good QB. The odds are higher that you will hit on a great QB when you get a guy with all the physical attributes and the pedigree. But the attributes and the pedigree don't define the potential. They just give some hint to what the potential might be.You are correct. This is upside. Tony Romo has worked hard to overcome whatever stigmas might be attached to not being drafted and playing for a Division II school. That is what I am saying.

After you see the guy play, you can refine your estimates of his potential. We've seen enough of Eli to start refining our estimates, and, IMO, we should refine those estimates downward.I disagree with this last part. Expectations are always refined, but lowering them is wrong. They should always be raised. If a player doesn't reach his full potential it should never be because not much was expected of him.

[sonnyboy]

I'll admitt. 3.5 games is 3.5 games. No gettin around that. I also agree that durability is something that will only be established over time.
HOWEVER, I think we can all agree that Romo's start has been nothing short of remarkable. Numbers, especially with a small sampling can be skeewed. A RB takes a screen pass 80 yards after shaking and breaking five tackles. This can really pad a QB's YPA and rating. Excellent pass protection, exceptional WR play, strong running game, strong defensive play, weak competition. These can also play a huge role.
I don't think Romo has had the benefit of any of this. If anything, I think we can agree that the team has slightly underperformed for Romo in these areas and the competition has been at least decent.
Yet Romo has managed to post a 101.2 QB rating and a league best YPA of 8.78.
In additon to the strong numbers, Romo's given me plenty of visual evidence.

Can anyone name me a true flash in the pan? Some QB with a Romo type career start who quickly faded away.

[Hostile]

I'll admitt. 3.5 games is 3.5 games. No gettin around that. I also agree that durability is something that will only be established over time.
HOWEVER, I think we can all agree that Romo's start has been nothing short of remarkable. Numbers, especially with a small sampling can be skeewed. A RB takes a screen pass 80 yards after shaking and breaking five tackles. This can really pad a QB's YPA and rating. Excellent pass protection, exceptional WR play, strong running game, strong defensive play, weak competition. These can also play a huge role.
I don't think Romo has had the benefit of any of this. If anything, I think we can agree that the team has slightly underperformed for Romo in these areas and the competition has been at least decent.
Yet Romo has managed to post a 101.2 QB rating and a league best YPA of 8.78.
In additon to the strong numbers, Romo's given me plenty of visual evidence.

Can anyone name me a true flash in the pan? Some QB with a Romo type career start who quickly faded away.Yes, I can name several.

Eric Hipple

Mark Rypien

Gus Frerotte

Shaun King

Charlie Batch

Chris Simms

Kordell Stewart


Just to name a few. All had impressive beginnings to their careers and then came back to earth or fell off it. This is just a few. There have been many others.

Note, I haven't downplayed how well Romo has played even one time in this thread and look how angry you are getting. All bold. All caps. Bigger font. Anything to scream me down, or get others to jump on board and join. That is exactly what I meant in an earlier post I responded to you.

[Hostile]

Right. THey're all elite in my book.Paris has never done anything for me. Britney used to, but she's too far gone IMO. Jessica still seems like a nice lovable ditz.

[sonnyboy]

Yes, I can name several.

Eric Hipple

Mark Rypien

Gus Frerotte

Shaun King

Charlie Batch

Chris Simms

Kordell Stewart


Just to name a few. All had impressive beginnings to their careers and then came back to earth or fell off it. This is just a few. There have been many others.

Note, I haven't downplayed how well Romo has played even one time in this thread and look how angry you are getting. All bold. All caps. Bigger font. Anything to scream me down, or get others to jump on board and join. That is exactly what I meant in an earlier post I responded to you.




PSST I'll try to keep it down to a wisper. I'm not feeling angry or hostile, look who's calling the kettle black, Hostile. I'm never really mad at any Cowboy fan.:D

[cowboys19]

Yes, I can name several.

Eric Hipple

Mark Rypien

Gus Frerotte

Shaun King

Charlie Batch

Chris Simms

Kordell Stewart




None of them has had as good of a start than Romo. let me check each on of their stats. Ill show you why

[Doomsday]

Or is Tony Romo a better QB than Eli Manning?

I really think I like Romo about 100% better than Manning (Eli, that is).

I was thinking the same thing last night and this morning. Is Eli just going through some growing pains or is he just not that good? He has a ton of weapons around him a good, a running game and a solid Oline but he is struggling big time. He seems very inaccurate, looked like crap in the second half of last nights game and a few others Ive seen this year. Got me thinking who would I rather have right now Eli or Romo? Its a tough one but I think I would rather take my chances with Romo.

[sonnyboy]

None of them has had as good of a start than Romo. let me check each on of their stats. Ill show you why

I had the same thought, but far to lazy to check the stats.

[Hostile]

PSST I'll try to keep it down to a wisper. I'm not feeling angry or hostile, look who's calling the kettle black, Hostile. I'm never really mad at any Cowboy fan.:D All I did was respond to the questions asked to me. I said people do not like my answers. Now you know why yourself. I don't gush just to make people happy.

[Hostile]

None of them has had as good of a start than Romo. let me check each on of their stats. Ill show you whyThat wasn't what was asked and who cares what their stats were? They were flashes in the pan. Don't bother looking up their stats. You're wasting your time.

[Doomsday]

"Romo may have a lower ceiling and more upside."

No offence, but this makes nooooo sense.

Eli has more physical tools but if he just doesnt get it his upside will be a lot less then his celing. I think Eli has the bigger arm but Romo has the better feet and is probably a bit more intelligent so does big arm always mean bigger ceiling is the real question?

[Danny White]

None of them has had as good of a start than Romo. let me check each on of their stats. Ill show you why

How about Kurt Warner! :eek:

[chinch]

Note, I'm not calling him (Eli) flawless or a perfect QB. The potential for greatness is higher. That means the potential for disappointment is higher as well. I acknowledge that. That would mean downside.
His "potential for greatness" is higher :rolleyes: ... why is this?

Is his IQ higher? does he process info faster? better vision? faster? stronger arm? more accurate? quicker recovery time? less injury prone? more coachable? teammates like him more? etc...

:rolleyes:

[superpunk]

Eli has more physical tools but if he just doesnt get it his upside will be a lot less then his celing. I think Eli has the bigger arm but Romo has the better feet and is probably a bit more intelligent so does big arm always mean bigger ceiling is the real question?

I present to you, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, Jeff George and Drew Bledsoe. The question at this point is - Eli Manning - this generation's Drew Bledsoe? I've never been impressed with anything he does. Flashes do not equal greatness, just unrealized potential. His heritage is nice, but meaningless. He has better physical skills than his brother and does much less with them.

[Hostile]

How about Kurt Warner! :eek:I avoided naming him only because I thought people would gripe.

[wileedog]

How about Kurt Warner! :eek:

Kurt's decline started after he turned 30, and I believe had a lot to do with the pounding he took in St. Louis and later with the GIants. He didn't get sacked a lot in St. Louis, but he got hit an awful lot because in Martz's system you put 125 guys into the route and pray the QB finds one before he gets killed.

Although for the record, I generally agree that its way to early to declare Romo anything. For all we know Indy finds his fatal flaw on tape this week and puts out the blueprint for defeating Moxie.

At this point I like what I see from him and I think there is a better chance he will be a good QB than fall off the planet. Conversely, I'm not that impressed with Eli, and I think he will be an up and down QB for most of his career. We'll see how it plays out.

[Maikeru-sama]

His "potential for greatness" is higher :rolleyes: ... why is this?

Is his IQ higher? does he process info faster? better vision? faster? stronger arm? more accurate? quicker recovery time? less injury prone? more coachable? teammates like him more? etc...

:rolleyes:

:hammer:

You can also look at the fact that Manning has been playing football all of his life.

I believe yesterday they said Romo started playing football in his Junior Year (and was a Safety until the QB got hurt), so that probably hurt his ability to get a Scholarship.

If Romo had been playing football since PeeWee League, had a dad to teach him the in and outs of the position, watching film when he was little and last but not least, change his last name to "Manning", he may have gone to a big school and viewed differently by folks that want a guy from a big college and correct "pedigree".

If you factor everything Romo brings to the table, measurables and imeasurables, I dont know that I could just come out and say "Eli has a higher upside and potential".

The guy is playing like a Savvy Veteran and if you look at the "Whole" package instead of the "Physical Tools", it is hard to come out and say definatively that Eli's upside is way higher.

Again, the "Babe Laufenberg" Trivia comes up. The GM of the Giants is on the phone with you and they want to do a straight up trade Romo for Eli, do you do it.

I dont...and I bet Jerry and Parcells would have some reservations as well.

- Mike G.

[cowboys19]

Eric Hipple: his first year starting

att:279
cmp:140
pct:50.2
yds:2358
avg:8.45
td:14
td%:5.0
int:15
int%5.4
sack:27
loss:208
qb Rating: 73.4




Mark Rypien:

att:208
cmp:114
pct:54.8
yds:1730
avg:8.32
td:18
td%:8.7
int:13
int%6.3
sack:14
loss:115
qb rating:85.2




Gus Frerotte:

att:100
cmp:46
pct:46.0
yds:600
avg:6.00
td:5
td%:5.0
int:5
int%:5.0
sack:3
loss:18
qb rating:61.2




Shaun King:

att:146
cmp:89
pct:61.0
yds:875
avg:5.99
td:7
td%:4.8
int:4
int%:2.7
sack:11
loss:78
qb rating:82.4




Charlie Batch:

att:303
cmp:173
pct:57.1
yds:2178
avg:7.19
td:11
td%:3.6
int:6
int%:2.0
sack:37
loss:222
qb rating:83.5




Chris Simms:

att:73
cmp:42
pct:57.5
yds:467
avg:6.40
td:1
td%:1.4
int:3
int%:4.1
sack:10
loss:75
qb rating:64.1




Kordell Stewart:

he only had 37 attempts his firts 2 years starting so i wont count those. Its not like he was lighting it up either, 1 td, 2 ints in those 37 attempts

1st year full time starting

att:440
cmp:236
pct:53.6
yds:3020
avg:6.86
td:21
td%:4.8
int:17
int%:3.9
sack:20
loss:152
qb rating:75.2














and Tony Romo?

att:128
cmp:84
pct:65.6
yds:1124
avg:8.78
td:8
td%:6.2
int:4
int%:3.1
sack:6
loss:37
qb rating:101.2

Now its clear to me Romo has outperformed all those guys you mentioned, when they got their shots to start

[cowboys19]

That wasn't what was asked and who cares what their stats were? They were flashes in the pan. Don't bother looking up their stats. You're wasting your time.

they weren't flash in the pans. When they got their shot to start they were decent, just look at the stats.

Tony Romo has been beyond decent.

[Hostile]

His "potential for greatness" is higher :rolleyes: ... why is this?

Is his IQ higher? does he process info faster? better vision? faster? stronger arm? more accurate? quicker recovery time? less injury prone? more coachable? teammates like him more? etc...

:rolleyes:I love the spin control. ;)

You don't like him, so he's a dud right?

This is why I asked the question that I did.

Which QB has higher expectations placed on him of the 2? Now ask yourself why and ponder it.

I am fairly sure no matter what I answered you wouldn't care for the answer anyway. So why should I waste my time trying to be honest with you on this?

I separated upside and potential for a reason and said perhaps Romo has more upside. How you can think I'm insulting him is beyond me.

[Hostile]

they weren't flash in the pans. When they got their shot to start they were decent, just look at the stats.

Tony Romo has been beyond decent.Do you not know what "flash in the pan" means?

I already told you I don't care about their stats. You look at them. You took the time to dig them up when I could care less.

The fact is they each came in, made some noise, got their fans and media all jacked up and then...poof...they were gone. Just like a "flash in the pan."

Also note, I'm not calling Romo a "flash in the pan." Someone else brought that up.

[cowboys19]

Do you not know what "flash in the pan" means?

I already told you I don't care about their stats. You look at them. You took the time to dig them up when I could care less.

The fact is they each came in, made some noise, got their fans and media all jacked up and then...poof...they were gone. Just like a "flash in the pan."

Also note, I'm not calling Romo a "flash in the pan." Someone else brought that up.

How could they be flash in the pans when their stats are only average?

What was so exciting about them? besides avg #'s?

Romo has outstanding #'s, something everyone of those guys didnt have

[Hostile]

How could they be flash in the pans when their stats are only average?

What was so exciting about them? besides avg #'s?

Romo has outstanding #'s, something everyone of those guys didnt haveLook at their first 3 or 4 games. Look at whether they played winning teams or not. Look at whether they won or not. The fact is their fans and the media were jacked up big time about what they were doing. You don't like it that I remember that, okay. Doesn't change anything.

I still haven't lumped Romo in with them so I don't know why you're so pissed.

[sonnyboy]

Eric Hipple: his first year starting

att:279
cmp:140
pct:50.2
yds:2358
avg:8.45
td:14
td%:5.0
int:15
int%5.4
sack:27
loss:208
qb Rating: 73.4




Mark Rypien:

att:208
cmp:114
pct:54.8
yds:1730
avg:8.32
td:18
td%:8.7
int:13
int%6.3
sack:14
loss:115
qb rating:85.2




Gus Frerotte:

att:100
cmp:46
pct:46.0
yds:600
avg:6.00
td:5
td%:5.0
int:5
int%:5.0
sack:3
loss:18
qb rating:61.2




Shaun King:

att:146
cmp:89
pct:61.0
yds:875
avg:5.99
td:7
td%:4.8
int:4
int%:2.7
sack:11
loss:78
qb rating:82.4




Charlie Batch:

att:303
cmp:173
pct:57.1
yds:2178
avg:7.19
td:11
td%:3.6
int:6
int%:2.0
sack:37
loss:222
qb rating:83.5




Chris Simms:

att:73
cmp:42
pct:57.5
yds:467
avg:6.40
td:1
td%:1.4
int:3
int%:4.1
sack:10
loss:75
qb rating:64.1




Kordell Stewart:

he only had 37 attempts his firts 2 years starting so i wont count those. Its not like he was lighting it up either, 1 td, 2 ints in those 37 attempts

1st year full time starting

att:440
cmp:236
pct:53.6
yds:3020
avg:6.86
td:21
td%:4.8
int:17
int%:3.9
sack:20
loss:152
qb rating:75.2














and Tony Romo?

att:128
cmp:84
pct:65.6
yds:1124
avg:8.78
td:8
td%:6.2
int:4
int%:3.1
sack:6
loss:37
qb rating:101.2

Now its clear to me Romo has outperformed all those guys you mentioned, when they got their shots to start


WOW What a shock! Funny how the only respectable number was 8.32 YPA by Rypien who actually won a Superbowl.

[chinch]

I love the spin control. ;)

You don't like him, so he's a dud right?

This is why I asked the question that I did.

you're the champion of putting words in peoples mouths huh?

who said "dud"? or "don't like him".

the fact remains when romo starts playing down to the level of Eli i'll surely post here about it. so far what Tony has shown - on the road no less - is above any 3 games i've seen eli play in one season, nevermind in a row... and that is with inferior RB and OL - WR/TE is a wash.

now, i doubt this 102 QB rating level of play will continue forever but until it drops significantly the "pedigree qb only" zealots need to chew on a big-ol-bag of crow. ;)

ps - those QBs you posted never had any great stretches as the stats posted above show.

[Hostile]

you're the champion of putting words in peoples mouths huh?

who said "dud"? or "don't like him".

the fact remains when romo starts playing down to the level of Eli i'll surely post here about it. so far what Tony has shown - on the road no less - is above any 3 games i've seen eli play in one season, nevermind in a row... and that is with inferior RB and OL - WR/TE is a wash.

now, i doubt this 102 QB rating level of play will continue forever but until it drops significantly the "pedigree qb only" zealots need to chew on a big-ol-bag of crow. ;)

ps - those QBs you posted never had any great stretches as the stats posted above show.No crow eaten here. I haven't had any call to.

Those QBs I posted were "flashes in the pan" which is exactly what sonnyboy asked. Go back and look at his question. Stats can be damned, that has nothing to do with it. I even threw a Super Bowl winner in there.

Nice try though.

[kmd24]

If you want to say Eli has a higher ceiling and more upside, that is your right.

I don't. I think Eli's ceiling may be somewhat lower than Romo's due to Eli's personality. Either way, Eli hasn't played very well so far in his career. I think he has the potential to get better, so he has more upside. I can't imagine Romo performing better than he has, so I think he has little upside.

You are correct. This is upside. Tony Romo has worked hard to overcome whatever stigmas might be attached to not being drafted and playing for a Division II school. That is what I am saying.


It was upside four years ago when Romo was drafted. At this point, I'd guess he's playing pretty close to his potential (i.e., realized his upside), if you just go by what's happened on the field so far.

Eli is still playing below his presumed potential, so he still has some upside left.

Anyway, what you're talking about is akin to implied odds, and it's only germane during the draft. Once the player joins the team, it's irrelevant.

Ever heard of sunk cost?

I disagree with this last part. Expectations are always refined, but lowering them is wrong. They should always be raised. If a player doesn't reach his full potential it should never be because not much was expected of him.

We're not talking about the same thing. I said nothing about expectations. I said "estimates."

Basically, what I am saying is that when a player is drafted, you only have a rough idea (an estimate) of what his potential is. As you watch the player play and develop, it becomes easier to estimate the player's capabilities and to determine if your original estimate of his potential was correct. BP's three year rule is a form of this.

We have a lot more information about Eli now. At this point, if you were estimating his potential, your assessment should be much more accurate than it was on draft day, and it may be very different. IMO, his potential is not what it was thought to be, but still better than average. That has nothing to do with the expectations that the Giants should have for Eli.

[jem88]

At this point, the only young QB I might take over Romo is Palmer.
What about Rivers? Granted, I haven't had the chance to watch any Chargers games but the guy is winning and putting up the numbers.

[Danny White]

P.S. Romo's also better than Delhomme.

[Danny White]

Just for argument's sake...

Starting QB's I'd rather have than Romo (in order):
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Phillip Rivers
Mark Bulger

QB's I'd give a "push" to (no particular order):
Matt Hassleback
Pukey McNabb
Brett Favre
Mike Vick
Drew Brees
Big Ben Rothwhatever
Steve McNair
Trent Green

QB's I'd take Romo over:
Eli Manning
Jason Campbell (probably)
Mark Brunell
Brad Johnson
Kitna
Grossman
Gradkowski
Chrissy Simms
Delhomme
Alex Smith
Leinart
Pennington
Losman
Joey Harrington
Daunte Culpepper
Frye
Leftwich
Garrard
Carr
Vince Young
Huard
Plummer
Whatever trash the Raiders are starting

[theogt]

QB's I'd give a "push" to (no particular order):
Matt Hassleback
Pukey McNabb
Brett Favre
Mike Vick
Drew Brees
Big Ben Rothwhatever
Steve McNair
Trent GreenYou can go ahead and eliminate the bolded players from the list.

[Danny White]

You can go ahead and eliminate the bolded players from the list.

I didn't want to seem like TOO much of a Romo-homo. :D

[ThreeSportStar80]

Hmm, give me Tony Romo and Philip Rivers over Eli Manning. I think it's obvious how mature Romo is beyond his years also I see the same from Rivers!

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd take ROmo over Jason Campbell LOL

[Hostile]

Just for argument's sake...

Starting QB's I'd rather have than Romo (in order):
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Phillip Rivers
Mark Bulger

QB's I'd give a "push" to (no particular order):
Matt Hassleback
Pukey McNabb
Brett Favre
Mike Vick
Drew Brees
Big Ben Rothwhatever
Steve McNair
Trent Green

QB's I'd take Romo over:
Eli Manning
Jason Campbell (probably)
Mark Brunell
Brad Johnson
Kitna
Grossman
Gradkowski
Chrissy Simms
Delhomme
Alex Smith
Leinart
Pennington
Losman
Joey Harrington
Daunte Culpepper
Frye
Leftwich
Garrard
Carr
Vince Young
Huard
Plummer
Whatever trash the Raiders are startingNot a bad list. I don't much care for Bulger, but I admit he has good stats.

I couldn't create a list until at the end of the season. 3.5 games isn't enough for me to make an assessment one way or the other and some of the others on the list deserve a longer look too.