Not to make excuses for the giants but...

[sonnyboy]

Does anyone here doubt the 4th down sack on Young that should have been was a direct result of all these roughing the QB calls?
I'm as happy for the NYG collaspe as anyone but this is just wrong. I don't know if the kid thought he herd a wistle or what. As much as these defensive players are drilled over and over on what they can't do, I'm not really surprised something like this happened.

[Seven]

I don't know if the kid thought he herd a wistle or what.

I have no other explanation. He just let him go and stood there.

[smarta5150]

It doesnt matter.

The 1st thing you learn as a football player is to play until you hear a whistle.

The ref was no more than 10 feet away - if he "heard" a whistle it was in his head.

Lack of focus.

[Big Dakota]

Stupidity?

I wish all bad things on the gints.

[REDVOLUTION]

Does anyone here doubt the 4th down sack on Young that should have been was a direct result of all these roughing the QB calls?
I'm as happy for the NYG collaspe as anyone but this is just wrong. I don't know if the kid thought he herd a wistle or what. As much as these defensive players are drilled over and over on what they can't do, I'm not really surprised something like this happened.

Yeah well... the flood gates were opened by Coughlin... the Giants should have won 21-0

Too Mother Flowering bad

[sonnyboy]

It doesnt matter.

The 1st thing you learn as a football player is to play until you hear a whistle.

The ref was no more than 10 feet away - if he "heard" a whistle it was in his head.

Lack of focus.

I agree, certainly a lack of focus. It was a mistake. And I'm happy the Giants lost. The point was that this mistake was certainly the result of the NFL attempt to slowly but surely outlaw all QB contact!

[thekavorka]

I agree, certainly a lack of focus. It was a mistake. And I'm happy the Giants lost. The point was that this mistake was certainly the result of the NFL attempt to slowly but surely outlaw all QB contact!

yep. just bad luck i guess or a damn good pump fake by vince.

[Crown Royal]

It was a shame, really - Kiwi stopped because he saw Young give a fantastic pump fake just as he was going to hit him. he thought it was a pass and so he let up - he would have had to have been physical with him and take him down hard, and if it HAD been a pass, then Kiwi would have had a call.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Doesnt the fact that Young was out of the pocket also play into how the rules work? Im not sure but I think they give a bit more latitude to hitting than they do in the pocket.

[smarta5150]

Doesnt the fact that Young was out of the pocket also play into how the rules work? Im not sure but I think they give a bit more latitude to hitting than they do in the pocket.

If the gints didnt get called earlier for their hit on VY then maybe Kiwi would have drilled him.

[ThreeSportStar80]

I was thinking the same thing, about the NFL cracking down on defensive players roughing the passer. Oh well it's the Giants so who cares...LMAO!

[gbrittain]

I think he was trying to make a heady play and save himself from an unfortunate 15 yard penalty.

In the end it was a mistake by the young player, but the NFL's ridiculous rules concerning the QB played a large part IMO of the young player not pile driving Vince into the ground.

Fortunate for Dallas, but unfortunate for the NFL. I hate those calls whether they go for Dallas or against.

Let the QBs play football or put flags on them.

[Mercury]

Well whatever it was going on in his head put us in first place. I'm all for it.

[Coakleys Dad]

Does anyone here doubt the 4th down sack on Young that should have been was a direct result of all these roughing the QB calls?
I'm as happy for the NYG collaspe as anyone but this is just wrong. I don't know if the kid thought he herd a wistle or what. As much as these defensive players are drilled over and over on what they can't do, I'm not really surprised something like this happened.
its called finish the tackle...

[thekavorka]

its called finish the tackle...

it's called not wanting to get a roughing penalty because he thought vince had thrown the ball...

[Coakleys Dad]

it just looked like sloppy tackling and poor discipline to me.

[EastDallasCowboy]

i think its certainly fear of a roughing the passer call.

and i too hate the rules for QBs.

[Aikbach]

Math-something another is apparently dumber then a bag of hammers, I can invision TO's next touchdown dance involving grabbing Romo and then letting him go and looking confused.

[Undisputed]

Does anyone here doubt the 4th down sack on Young that should have been was a direct result of all these roughing the QB calls?
I'm as happy for the NYG collaspe as anyone but this is just wrong. I don't know if the kid thought he herd a wistle or what. As much as these defensive players are drilled over and over on what they can't do, I'm not really surprised something like this happened.

I gotta agree. I mean protecting the QB is important, but to the point where defenders are scared to finish well earned tackles for fear of getting penalized? I mean how many times have we seen key personal fouls change the course of the game? I really can't blame some of these guys for being so timid in an attempt to not cost their team the game after a stupid penalty. Ironically, that attempt is exactly what costed the Giants here. Shame...but good for us I guess!

[smarta5150]

There is still NO EXCUSE for not wrapping the QB up until you hear a whistle.

I dont think anyone brought up the point that refs call the play dead with CERTAIN QBs. Those are plays where non-scrambling QBs are wrapped up. For example, if Drew Bledsoe had been in VYs place the whistle would be blown. If Mike Vick was in VYs place the whistle would not have been blow - this is the same case as Vince Young.

Mobile QBs get the chance to run after being wrapped. Non-scrambling QBs the play is whistled dead to prtect the QB.

Kiwi MUST KNOW this rule which he obviously didnt. Its stupid. If a Dallas Cowboy defender did this I would be saying the same exact thing as I am now. This is not some homer opinion. These players should know the rules of the game and avoid mental lapses.

This is what determines ok players from GREAT players - same with teams.

If we dont cut down our pernalties we will also be a team looking for excuses by blaming refs. You can only blame the refs and rules so much but the fact of the matter is these are the rules - whether they make sense or not they are the law.

If I know these rules why the heck dont people who actually start and play on professional teams?

So... dumb rules or not, they are the law. Players need to know them and abide by them or face the consequences.

[jrumann59]

That sack then not a sack wasn't the 1st time it happened in cleveland also and I also think a big play followed.

[thekavorka]

There is still NO EXCUSE for not wrapping the QB up until you hear a whistle.

I dont think anyone brought up the point that refs call the play dead with CERTAIN QBs. Those are plays where non-scrambling QBs are wrapped up. For example, if Drew Bledsoe had been in VYs place the whistle would be blown. If Mike Vick was in VYs place the whistle would not have been blow - this is the same case as Vince Young.

Mobile QBs get the chance to run after being wrapped. Non-scrambling QBs the play is whistled dead to prtect the QB.

Kiwi MUST KNOW this rule which he obviously didnt. Its stupid. If a Dallas Cowboy defender did this I would be saying the same exact thing as I am now. This is not some homer opinion. These players should know the rules of the game and avoid mental lapses.

This is what determines ok players from GREAT players - same with teams.

If we dont cut down our pernalties we will also be a team looking for excuses by blaming refs. You can only blame the refs and rules so much but the fact of the matter is these are the rules - whether they make sense or not they are the law.

If I know these rules why the heck dont people who actually start and play on professional teams?

So... dumb rules or not, they are the law. Players need to know them and abide by them or face the consequences.

I realize you have to play "to the whistle", but in Kiwanuka's mind the whistle had not blown because he thought Vince had thrown the ball and completed the pass. He doesn't want to finish off the tackle if Vince had thrown the ball.

[smarta5150]

I realize you have to play "to the whistle", but in Kiwanuka's mind the whistle had not blown because he thought Vince had thrown the ball and completed the pass. He doesn't want to finish off the tackle if Vince had thrown the ball.

Dont drop him. Wrap him up and hold him. There is no penalty for that.

[smarta5150]

Its like us blaming the 15 yard face mask in the skins game on us losing anyway.

I dont agree with the whole "1 play cost us the game theory."

The Titans shouldnt have been in that game and the skins shouldnt have been in our game.

The game is 60 minutes for a reason.

[DallasDomination]

I feel sorry for that guy...The refs are making this no fun league..They are teaching the defensive players to back down.



Just think about it..The de4fensive player has to cuddle the Qb to the ground. You cant hit his helmet, or land directly above him, and dont even think about slamming him...

BAsically cuddle him, huge him and touch him..Yup how gay.

[Aikbach]

I feel sorry for that guy...The refs are making this no fun league..They are teaching the defensive players to back down.



Just think about it..The de4fensive player has to cuddle the Qb to the ground. You cant hit his helmet, or land directly above him, and dont even think about slamming him...

BAsically cuddle him, huge him and touch him..Yup how gay.Never ever pity a rival's misfortune on gameday, shameless homerism is applicable for all is fair in love and playoff positioning.

[Rampage]

o well. the guy is another dumb giant. he will probably go run his mouth about it.

[CrazyCowboy]

Does anyone here doubt the 4th down sack on Young that should have been was a direct result of all these roughing the QB calls?
I'm as happy for the NYG collaspe as anyone but this is just wrong. I don't know if the kid thought he herd a wistle or what. As much as these defensive players are drilled over and over on what they can't do, I'm not really surprised something like this happened.

Yea, that is the only explanation for him just letting Young go like that :laugh2:

[burmafrd]

THINKING players might be worried. The neanderthal types can't think.

[31smackdown]

So... Is the "In the Grasp" rule still around or not? Bledsoe was called sacked on a similar style wrap up early in the season.

That's a tough spot for a defender.. I guess the best bet is to just hold on to the guy until you are sure what is going on..

The Titans still had to drive 57 yards and score a TD after that..

[stealth]

If young had thrown the ball and the kid had held on to him pushing him back and back I still think the refs woulda thrown a flag on him. Not to mention that fact that I have seen qb's pulling an NBA move where they completely exagerrate how they were hit. Its pretty silly the direction things are going.