Hollis Thomas...

[j_welcome]

NOT asthma medicine...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/07/sports/football/08steroids.html?_r=2&ref=sports&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[CrazyCowboy]

it is not nice to lie Hollis!

[ThreeSportStar80]

Mickey Spagnola on DallasCowboys.com actually was going over that situation on Talkin' Cowboys this morning.... Thomas just got caught using roids'....

[alancdc]

NOT asthma medicine...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/07/sports/football/08steroids.html?_r=2&ref=sports&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Shocker! I can't imagine a pro athlete not being truthful about drugs or steroids! Wait, ok, done laughing!

:rolleyes:

[Iago33]

I never understood why anyone bought that story in the first place. Come on!

[JJB500]

Yeah just like Merriman getting suspended for a banded substance in the "protein powder" he was taking!

[sonnyboy]

Someone want to go to a Saints board and post this with the header: READ IT AND WEEP!

[Spontae]

...but...he had asthma....

:rolleyes:

[GeauX]

Some choose to do blow all over town over and over again, others take the "lemme smuggle 600 lbs. of grass in my car" routine, and then there are those who do steroids...may they all pay.

[Chocolate Lab]

Yep, the host on WWL was saying last night that Thomas got busted for Clenbuterol, *not* anything in his asthma medication, and that Saints fans should forget any talk of him being wrongly accused.

[5Stars]

I cannot read the article...you have to register...!

[j_welcome]

I cannot read the article...you have to register...!
Football Officials Dispute Thomas's Drug Defense




By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/s/michael_s_schmidt/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: December 7, 2006

Contrary to the explanation by New Orleans Saints (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/profootball/nationalfootballleague/neworleanssaints/index.html?inline=nyt-org) defensive lineman Hollis Thomas that his positive drug test resulted from asthma medications, two football officials with knowledge of the case said a performance-enhancing drug was to blame.
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Saints defensive lineman Hollis Thomas blamed his positive drug test on prescribed asthma medications.




The N.F.L. suspended Thomas for four games Tuesday for violating the league’s banned-substance policy. A drug test on Aug. 7 found clenbuterol, a banned drug that helps burn fat and promotes muscle growth, in Thomas’s body.

Thomas, a 6-foot tackle who is listed at 306 pounds and goes by the nickname Tank, has struggled with his weight and asthma for his entire career. He was traded to New Orleans in April after nine season with the Philadelphia Eagles (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/sports/profootball/nationalfootballleague/philadelphiaeagles/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and has flourished for the resurgent Saints, registering 3½ sacks and 43 tackles through 12 games.

The loss of Thomas, 32, comes at a crucial point for the Saints (8-4). New Orleans plays at Dallas on Sunday in a game that could help determine home-field advantage in the National Football Conference playoffs. He will miss the last four games of the regular season but will be eligible to return for the playoffs.

His agents, Michael Bauer and Ron Slavin, cited a letter used in their appeal in which the Saints’ doctor, John R. Amoss, said it was “highly plausible” that asthma medications were responsible for the presence of clenbuterol in the urine sample. In the letter, Dr. Amoss wrote that Thomas’s severe asthma required the treatment of high doses of inhaled steroids and other drugs. Dr. Amoss wrote that the combination of drugs probably produced a “false positive” result.

One football official, who was granted anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the case, said the drug found in Hollis’s system could not have resulted from a combination of the medications. If the drugs that Thomas was prescribed by the team doctor were the only medications found in his system, he would have won his appeal, the official said.

N.F.L. players can seek medical exemptions after testing positive for a banned substance. If a drug has been prescribed by a doctor for a legitimate health reason, the violation can be settled and no suspension is issued.
Advair and albuterol, drugs that Thomas was taking for his asthma, are included on the N.F.L.’s list of prohibited substances. But they were not cited as violations because they were prescribed by the team doctor, the official said.

“As long as what is found in the system is what the doctor prescribed you, you are fine,” he said. “But in this case, there was something else besides what the doctor prescribed.”

The second football official, who was not authorized to speak publicly, independently confirmed what the other official said.

Drug-testing experts also questioned the team doctor’s written argument. Clenbuterol is not a steroid, but it cannot be obtained legally for human use in the United States. Only veterinarians treating horses with severe breathing problems similar to asthma can prescribe the drug.

“I have never heard the proposition put forth that this combination of drugs would produce a positive test for clenbuterol,” said Dr. Gary I. Wadler, an associate professor of medicine at New York University (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/new_york_university/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and an adviser for the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Clenbuterol is not more effective at treating asthma than the other medications Thomas was taking for his breathing problems, Wadler said. The drug is available for human consumption in some South American countries and has been used to increase muscle growth in show animals and athletes.
Wadler said that athletes had used clenbuterol before, most notably during the 1992 Barcelona Olympics, when two American shot-putters tested positive for the drug and were disqualified. The former pitcher Jason Grimsley told federal prosecutors that he used clenbuterol, human growth hormone, amphetamines and steroids during his Major League Baseball career.
In a telephone interview Wednesday, Slavin, one of Thomas’s agents, said the extreme heat and humidity at the Saints’ summer training camp at Millsaps College in Jackson, Miss., made Thomas’s asthma worse and prompted doctors to recommend new drugs. Thomas was overweight when he arrived at minicamp in June and was still overweight when training camp began at the end of July.

In the appeal to the league, dated Nov. 17, his agents also argued that a suspension would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act because Thomas was treating “his chronic, life threatening asthma, in a contract year.”
Dr. Amoss, the team doctor and an assistant professor at Louisiana State University, declined an interview request for this article. A team spokesman also would not comment.

More than 60 active players, and about 60 players who retired or were cut before their results were determined, have tested positive since the N.F.L.’s testing for performance-enhancing drugs began in 1989. So far this year, at least five players have tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs.
At the Eagles training facility Wednesday, Thomas’s former teammates said they were surprised and dismayed by the positive test.

“I think everyone should hold their judgment until they actually know for sure that he did something wrong,” defensive tackle Darwin Walker said. “I think he’s a good character person. I just hate to see something like that happen. To be honest with you, I should educate myself more about the steroid policy, because I don’t know much about it. I don’t know much about asthma medications either.”

Defensive tackle Sam Rayburn said he talked with Thomas and believed that he had not intentionally used a banned substance.

“Almost everything is against the rules in certain quantities,” Rayburn said. “Even caffeine is considered a performance-enhancer if it’s in a great enough quantity. You got to be careful. You can’t even drink too much Mountain Dew. The easy way to stay out of trouble is not just to take anything.”

[5Stars]

Football Officials Dispute Thomas's Drug Defense

Thanks, j_welcome...

[SaintSand]

FWIW, this is the position that Hollis Thomas is taking and is being backed by the doctor that prescribed his medication:

Amoss prescribed Thomas' asthma medication during training camp and wrote a letter outlining the drugs that Thomas was using for Thomas' appeal. Amoss indicated in the letter that the combination of drugs that Thomas was using, and continues to use, could result in a false positive test for clenbuterol.

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1165479427162360.xml&coll=1

The NFL is saying that Thomas is being suspended for having clenbuterol in his system. If it is true that Thomas' medication could have caused a false positive for clenbuterol (I have no idea if it could or couldn't), then perhaps the NFL needs to look at this again. The NFL's statement to the NYT doesn't even address the possibility of a false positive. Personally, I would like to hear from some experts in the field of toxicology and get their take on whether it was possible that Thomas' medications could have caused a false positive. If they say it couldn't, then suspend him. If they say it could have caused a false positive, I don't see how the league can suspend him in good faith.

[Aikbach]

FWIW, this is the position that Hollis Thomas is taking and is being backed by the doctor that prescribed his medication:

Amoss prescribed Thomas' asthma medication during training camp and wrote a letter outlining the drugs that Thomas was using for Thomas' appeal. Amoss indicated in the letter that the combination of drugs that Thomas was using, and continues to use, could result in a false positive test for clenbuterol.

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1165479427162360.xml&coll=1

The NFL is saying that Thomas is being suspended for having clenbuterol in his system. If it is true that Thomas' medication could have caused a false positive for clenbuterol (I have no idea if it could or couldn't), then perhaps the NFL needs to look at this again. The NFL's statement to the NYT doesn't even address the possibility of a false positive. Personally, I would like to hear from some experts in the field of toxicology and get their take on whether it was possible that Thomas' medications could have caused a false positive. If they say it couldn't, then suspend him. If they say it could have caused a false positive, I don't see how the league can suspend him in good faith.Yawn, Thomas and Merriman should work out during suspensions with one another. I feel many more will come over the years.

[Da Hammer]

HAHA what a moron, hes just as big an idiot as Merriman is! haha

[Derinyar]

FWIW, this is the position that Hollis Thomas is taking and is being backed by the doctor that prescribed his medication:

Amoss prescribed Thomas' asthma medication during training camp and wrote a letter outlining the drugs that Thomas was using for Thomas' appeal. Amoss indicated in the letter that the combination of drugs that Thomas was using, and continues to use, could result in a false positive test for clenbuterol.

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1165479427162360.xml&coll=1

The NFL is saying that Thomas is being suspended for having clenbuterol in his system. If it is true that Thomas' medication could have caused a false positive for clenbuterol (I have no idea if it could or couldn't), then perhaps the NFL needs to look at this again. The NFL's statement to the NYT doesn't even address the possibility of a false positive. Personally, I would like to hear from some experts in the field of toxicology and get their take on whether it was possible that Thomas' medications could have caused a false positive. If they say it couldn't, then suspend him. If they say it could have caused a false positive, I don't see how the league can suspend him in good faith.

And if this is the case than a lot of players are going to develop asthma over this off season.

I think the NFL should and can suspend him in good faith. His doctor should have also realize that it could produce a false postive for this anabolic and probably not prescribed it for a person who is going through that testing, as it could also mask someones use of that drug.

[speedkilz88]

Every athlete that gets caught for steroid use always claims that its a false positive from something else they've taken, from the olympics to professional sports.

I just can't believe there is that many ignorant people out there that continue to believe them.

[Pleading the Fif]

And if this is the case than a lot of players are going to develop asthma over this off season.

I think the NFL should and can suspend him in good faith. His doctor should have also realize that it could produce a false postive for this anabolic and probably not prescribed it for a person who is going through that testing, as it could also mask someones use of that drug.

Clenbuterol isn't an anabolic steroid. *repeat* Clenbuterol isn't an anabolic steroid. It's a beta-2-agonist and has never been proven to have any anabolic effects in humans.

[Aikbach]

Clenbuterol isn't an anabolic steroid. *repeat* Clenbuterol isn't an anabolic steroid. It's a beta-2-agonist and has never been proven to have any anabolic effects in humans.Whine, and moan, the rule was in place.

[Chocolate Lab]

Clenbuterol isn't an anabolic steroid. *repeat* Clenbuterol isn't an anabolic steroid. It's a beta-2-agonist and has never been proven to have any anabolic effects in humans.

It is more of a fat loss agent, isn't it? I've read of bodybuilders taking that stuff.

[NotReally]

FWIW, this is the position that Hollis Thomas is taking and is being backed by THE DOCTOR THAT PRESCRIBED HIS MEDICATION:

Amoss prescribed Thomas' asthma medication during training camp and wrote a letter outlining the drugs that Thomas was using for Thomas' appeal. Amoss indicated in the letter that the combination of drugs that Thomas was using, and continues to use, could result in a false positive test for clenbuterol.

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1165479427162360.xml&coll=1

The NFL is saying that Thomas is being suspended for having clenbuterol in his system. If it is true that Thomas' medication could have caused a false positive for clenbuterol (I have no idea if it could or couldn't), then perhaps the NFL needs to look at this again. The NFL's statement to the NYT doesn't even address the possibility of a false positive. Personally, I would like to hear from some experts in the field of toxicology and get their take on whether it was possible that Thomas' medications could have caused a false positive. If they say it couldn't, then suspend him. If they say it could have caused a false positive, I don't see how the league can suspend him in good faith.



Seems like this "addresses" the issue.


“I have never heard the proposition put forth that this combination of drugs would produce a positive test for clenbuterol,” said Dr. Gary I. Wadler, an associate professor of medicine at New York University and an adviser for the World Anti-Doping Agency.


Hmmmm, an associate professor of medicine who regularly deals with "doping" issues, or a professional athletes PERSONAL PHYSICIAN WHO PRESCRIBED THE DRUGS ??????????? Who should I believe?????

[NotReally]

It's effect is defined in the article:
A drug test on Aug. 7 found clenbuterol, a banned drug that helps burn fat and promotes muscle growth, in Thomas’s body.

[Pleading the Fif]

Whine, and moan, the rule was in place.

Ok, I don't see where I disputed that. My take is that eventually, when enough ignorant people say "Hollis Thomas was taking steroids" and "Thomas and Merriman are juicing", etc, then everyone will start saying it. Just trying to set the record straight. Clenbuterol is not a steroid and has no anabolic effects.

[speedkilz88]

Ok, I don't see where I disputed that. My take is that eventually, when enough ignorant people say "Hollis Thomas was taking steroids" and "Thomas and Merriman are juicing", etc, then everyone will start saying it. Just trying to set the record straight. Clenbuterol is not a steroid and has no anabolic effects.helps burn fat and promotes muscle growth:lmao2:

[Pleading the Fif]

It's effect is defined in the article:

It has never been proven to promote muscle growth in humans. There are some studies that show it promotes muscle growth in lab animals.

[Pleading the Fif]

helps burn fat and promotes muscle growth:lmao2:

Don't believe everything you read. It does do that... in rats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3676200&dopt=Abstract

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1133617

Best article to read, although evidence is anecdotal:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/dharkam/clenbuterol-and-muscle-growth.htm

[cowboys#1]

AUG 7TH!!!
i cant believe it took that long to suspend him! 12 games in and they finally get a result....i wonder who else is on the juice since preseason that hasnt been caught yet?

[j_welcome]

FWIW, this is the position that Hollis Thomas is taking and is being backed by the doctor that prescribed his medication:

Amoss prescribed Thomas' asthma medication during training camp and wrote a letter outlining the drugs that Thomas was using for Thomas' appeal. Amoss indicated in the letter that the combination of drugs that Thomas was using, and continues to use, could result in a false positive test for clenbuterol.

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1165479427162360.xml&coll=1

The NFL is saying that Thomas is being suspended for having clenbuterol in his system. If it is true that Thomas' medication could have caused a false positive for clenbuterol (I have no idea if it could or couldn't), then perhaps the NFL needs to look at this again. The NFL's statement to the NYT doesn't even address the possibility of a false positive. Personally, I would like to hear from some experts in the field of toxicology and get their take on whether it was possible that Thomas' medications could have caused a false positive. If they say it couldn't, then suspend him. If they say it could have caused a false positive, I don't see how the league can suspend him in good faith.
Why would they look again? He failed the test on August 7th. If he was smart, he'd have stop taking the horse steroid and it wouldn't be in his system.

[Bungarian]

clenbuterol is not a steriod. It helps burn fat.

[SaintSand]

Seems like this "addresses" the issue.



Hmmmm, an associate professor of medicine who regularly deals with "doping" issues, or a professional athletes PERSONAL PHYSICIAN WHO PRESCRIBED THE DRUGS ??????????? Who should I believe?????

Thanks for the info. Do you have a link to that quote? I would like to read up more on this. Like I wrote, if the claim that it can cause a false positive is baseless, then Thomas should be suspended.

[Yeagermeister]

It doesn't matter what the drug does. If it's on the banned list it's a violation.

[j_welcome]

It doesn't matter what the drug does. If it's on the banned list it's a violation.
Not only is it banned in the NFL, it is ILLEGAL!!! Thomas is lucky he is only getting 4 games suspension, not thrown in jail for the 4 weeks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drug-testing experts also questioned the team doctor’s written argument. Clenbuterol is not a steroid, but it cannot be obtained legally for human use in the United States. Only veterinarians treating horses with severe breathing problems similar to asthma can prescribe the drug.

[SaintSand]

Every athlete that gets caught for steroid use always claims that its a false positive from something else they've taken, from the olympics to professional sports.

I just can't believe there is that many ignorant people out there that continue to believe them.

Well, if the information I provided had come from only Thomas himself, I wouldn't have posted it. The fact that his doctor is the one saying it gives me reason to at least look at what he is saying before dismissing it out of hand.

[Yeagermeister]

Not only is it banned in the NFL, it is ILLEGAL!!! Thomas is lucky he is only getting 4 games suspension, not thrown in jail for the 4 weeks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drug-testing experts also questioned the team doctor’s written argument. Clenbuterol is not a steroid, but it cannot be obtained legally for human use in the United States. Only veterinarians treating horses with severe breathing problems similar to asthma can prescribe the drug.

Well he's as big as a horse :D

[DCfaninDC]

FWIW, this is the position that Hollis Thomas is taking and is being backed by the doctor that prescribed his medication:

Amoss prescribed Thomas' asthma medication during training camp and wrote a letter outlining the drugs that Thomas was using for Thomas' appeal. Amoss indicated in the letter that the combination of drugs that Thomas was using, and continues to use, could result in a false positive test for clenbuterol.

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/base/sports-2/1165479427162360.xml&coll=1

The NFL is saying that Thomas is being suspended for having clenbuterol in his system. If it is true that Thomas' medication could have caused a false positive for clenbuterol (I have no idea if it could or couldn't), then perhaps the NFL needs to look at this again. The NFL's statement to the NYT doesn't even address the possibility of a false positive. Personally, I would like to hear from some experts in the field of toxicology and get their take on whether it was possible that Thomas' medications could have caused a false positive. If they say it couldn't, then suspend him. If they say it could have caused a false positive, I don't see how the league can suspend him in good faith.

If the NFL start excusing players for having positive tests and base them on combination of drugs then there will be a long line of players using steriods and find a couple other medication that will help get out of it. I am sure that the NFL didn't rely on one test only and we know that this has been going on for a couple of weeks now. Everyone needs to be held accountable for what they put in their body, medication schmedication...all excuses...take it like a man and serve your suspension.

[stealth]

Ok, I don't see where I disputed that. My take is that eventually, when enough ignorant people say "Hollis Thomas was taking steroids" and "Thomas and Merriman are juicing", etc, then everyone will start saying it. Just trying to set the record straight. Clenbuterol is not a steroid and has no anabolic effects.


it has mild anabolic effects not none. It is also useful when on a restricted calorie diet as it helps our bodies to use fat stores rather than the proteins stored in muscle. So in effect you can severely restrict your diet lose fat while gaining muscle mass, which otherwise wouldn't be possible. In that sense it is very similar to steriods in that it allows a gain of muscle mass and a reduction in body fat.

[Bungarian]

Yep - it is against the law to take. And it is usually taken with steriods.

[SaintSand]

If the NFL start excusing players for having positive tests and base them on combination of drugs then there will be a long line of players using steriods and find a couple other medication that will help get out of it.

I completely agree. I think that is why the NFL is sticking by its guns on this one even though there is "some" evidence that test could have been a false positive. Admitting that there could be false positives would cast suspicion on every test result.

At the same time, if someone takes two drugs that are legal, but the combination of them results in a false positive, then the player is being suspended because the test isn't good enough...not because he took a banned substance.

[SaintSand]

In response to NotReally's Dr. Wadler's quote, I found this...

Q: Will Clenbuterol show up on a drug test?
A: Only if you are being tested by a body that bans it. This is generally
international competition such as the Olympics. Employment, doctors physicals,
military does NOT test for this. The NCAA is reputed not to, however this is
unknown. It is best to get a prescription from a doctor for asthma medication.
Ventolin, Albuterol and the like trigger the same tests as Clenbuterol. With a
doctors prescription for one of these similar products, the Clen will be seen
as a false positive.http://www.basskilleronline.com/clenbuterol_nick.html

I don't know how reliable the information on this website is, but it calls into question Dr. Wadler's quote that he doesn't know of a proposition that has been put forth that a combination of drugs could give a false positive for clenbuterol. Someone out there is saying that it can, along with the doctor that prescribed it to Thomas.

Now I know it can be argued that Thomas used Clenbuterol and the other prescribed drugs are a mask, but he does have a severe case of asthma. So he isn't getting the asthma medications as a scam.

[faninjersey]

Oh KNOCK it off already!!! The guy used the stuff to give him a competitive advantage over his peers. You can't do that... he got caught... and is covering his tracks. End of story.

sheesh

[Pleading the Fif]

Oh KNOCK it off already!!! The guy used the stuff to give him a competitive advantage over his peers. You can't do that... he got caught... and is covering his tracks. End of story.

sheesh

Thank you, deus ex machina, but that's not the end of the story. There is a legitimate argument that he was using albuterol (which almost all asthmatics and children with reactive airway disease) and a resultant false positive showed up. Just because you "think" he was using it to gain a competitive advantage means nothing and adds nothing factual to the story.

[Pleading the Fif]

it has mild anabolic effects not none. It is also useful when on a restricted calorie diet as it helps our bodies to use fat stores rather than the proteins stored in muscle. So in effect you can severely restrict your diet lose fat while gaining muscle mass, which otherwise wouldn't be possible. In that sense it is very similar to steriods in that it allows a gain of muscle mass and a reduction in body fat.

What you are describing is not an anabolism. It's catabolism. Fat is burned as a result of using Clen. Anabolic properties of the drug have never been shown in humans. But believe what you will.

Also, steroids allow for a gain in muscle mass, not a reduction in body fat. Why do you think body builders use drugs like clen, ephedrine, and even caffeine to burn fat?

[stealth]

What you are describing is not an anabolism. It's catabolism. Fat is burned as a result of using Clen. Anabolic properties of the drug have never been shown in humans. But believe what you will.

Also, steroids allow for a gain in muscle mass, not a reduction in body fat. Why do you think body builders use drugs like clen, ephedrine, and even caffeine to burn fat?

believe what you will but it has shown to cause minimal muscle mass gains not none. and it's anti-catabolic and catabolic, but the definition you used is anti-catabolic. Its a very odd substance in its application and results, it has shown great gans in animals while showing minimal in humans. And steroids do increase muscle mass and at the same time allows a reduction in fat. Just not all of them. Ten years ago body builders thought clen gave them significant gains and it was hoped to be a drug test beating way to still use something to cheat muscle gains.

[SaintSand]

FWIW, one of the posters on a Saints board talked to someone in the know regarding NFL testing. From that conversation, it is pretty clear that Thomas tested positive. The tests are two fold. The first looks for a "class" of possible drugs, while the second test identifies the exact drug taken. The second test is so precise that it can even identify how the drug was taken....ingested, inhaled, etc. I believe that the medication that Thomas was taking would show up as a "false positive" on the first part of the test, it would not show up as false positive on the second part.

Looks like Thomas has earned this suspension. It is a shame, because I really thought highly of him. Hopefully, our back up will hold his own.

[zeromaster]

Looks like Thomas has earned this suspension. It is a shame, because I really thought highly of him. Hopefully, our back up will hold his own.

Just so long as he doesn't hold our own. Otherwise it will be thread city on missed calls again.
:D

BTW, I'm in agreement on the league needing to do a better policing job on these zebras. Call the rules, don't orchestrate the game.

[trueblue1687]

Haven't read through all the posts in this thread because it is a bit dated now (a day or two old:D ), but I do know that Clenbuterol and albuterol are kissing cousins so to speak. They are both medicines used in the treatment of asthma. Clenbuterol is also commonly used by athletes for just what the article says: fat burning (unlikely for Hollis) and increased energy. He would likely get a double benefit if he really suffers from asthma. And for those who argue "his doctor prescribed it, so it has to be ok" line, there is no real gray area in any legit drug policy anywhere. If you are prohibited from using a drug, that is the final say. Sort of like using pain pills and driving a school bus...but the doctor prescribed them to me:laugh2:

[speedkilz88]

Its also illegal in the u.s., tb.(except for horses)And Thomas was most likely taking it to lose weight and possibly make it into muscle, he's a fatty.

[trueblue1687]

Well, actually neither is the case. It sure won't turn fat into muscle (nothing will do that), and all it takes is a walk to sunny mexico ( some of you Texas guys knoW that:) ) and declare it upon entry, or import through one of ten thousand internet pharmacies....all perfectly legal. Quite dangerous, but legal. I don't think he wants to lose size, just gather more endurance.

[stealth]

Well, actually neither is the case. It sure won't turn fat into muscle (nothing will do that), and all it takes is a walk to sunny mexico ( some of you Texas guys knoW that:) ) and declare it upon entry, or import through one of ten thousand internet pharmacies....all perfectly legal. Quite dangerous, but legal. I don't think he wants to lose size, just gather more endurance.

you can't declare it

you gotta smuggle it if you wanna cross with it. They will confiscate it as a minimum

[zrinkill]

And the Saint Trolls start Crawdading .....

[SaintSand]

And the Saint Trolls start Crawdading .....

Please cite me to where I have trolled or "crawdaded". The only thing I did was put forth Thomas' position, the position of his doctor and said that I wanted more information because I was hearing that it could have been a false positive. Once I received information (from a Saints board, BTW) that demonstrated that the NFL's test really couldn't give out a false positive, I said that Thomas deserved his suspension...which is exactly what I said I would do in my first post on this thread.

Maybe you have a different definition of "crawdading" than I do.

[zrinkill]

Please cite me to where I have trolled or "crawdaded". The only thing I did was put forth Thomas' position, the position of his doctor and said that I wanted more information because I was hearing that it could have been a false positive. Once I received information (from a Saints board, BTW) that demonstrated that the NFL's test really couldn't give out a false positive, I said that Thomas deserved his suspension...which is exactly what I said I would do in my first post on this thread.

Maybe you have a different definition of "crawdading" than I do.

Yesterday the Saints trolls were saying he was innocent and his only crime was having Asthma .....

Today they are saying its a false test .....

Thats crawdading boy .....

I did not call you out by name by the way.

[SaintSand]

Yesterday the Saints trolls were saying he was innocent and his only crime was having Asthma .....

Today they are saying its a false test .....

Thats crawdading boy .....

I did not call you out by name by the way.

Actually, the two things are completely consistent. Thomas was saying that the test gave a "false positive" because of the asthma medicines he was taking gave the same signature as Clenbuterol. The case for Thomas never changed. So again, I don't see the crawdading....boy.;)

Heck, we just believed our player because (1) up to this point he has been a pretty good character guy (being one of the NFL's spokespersons on asthma and doing a lot of work with children with asthma), and (2) he is our best player at that position--and we want to win.

I know you didn't call me out by name, but I was the only one that came on here and specifically stated that I believed that Thomas should have been suspended. I thought you were saying I was crawdading--which I have definitely not done.

[EGG]

It's an little known fact that the late Johnny Cochran's favorite tactic was to populate the trial jury with Saints fans,,, :p:

[speedkilz88]

Well, actually neither is the case. It sure won't turn fat into muscle (nothing will do that), and all it takes is a walk to sunny mexico ( some of you Texas guys knoW that:) ) and declare it upon entry, or import through one of ten thousand internet pharmacies....all perfectly legal. Quite dangerous, but legal. I don't think he wants to lose size, just gather more endurance.Overweight DL do try to lose weight before training camp which is when he tested positive. And this drug is used because they can lose weight and has some ability to put on muscle. And as has been stated already, it is illegal when it comes to human consumption in the U.S., its only legal for vetenarian use on horses.

[Aikbach]

Both of Dallas' chief playoff adversaries are missing their best defensive run stopper. Tommie Harris may be out for the season now in Chicago reports have suggested.

[trueblue1687]

Overweight DL do try to lose weight before training camp which is when he tested positive. And this drug is used because they can lose weight and has some ability to put on muscle. And as has been stated already, it is illegal when it comes to human consumption in the U.S., its only legal for vetenarian use on horses.
Not to be argumentative, but pretty sure that it is not on the banned importation list of FDA because it is not a scheduled drug,it's just not marketed in US and I know of no uses for vet applications since it treats asthma. I haven't tried to import any, but know of several body builsders that regularly walk it across and always declare it....without so much as a hiccup.