this is why Jim Mora is stupid

[dbair1967]

"Absolutely, there is zero percent chance of that happening. Zero," Mora said, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. "Let me ask you this, would you pull Michael Jordan? Well, I won't pull Mike Vick. I absolutely will not pull Mike Vick. He could be 0-for-100, and he's going to throw pass number 101."

Comparing the loser Vick with the greatest basketball player, maybe greatest sports player in history shows what a true buffoon Mora is. Jordan not only was the greatest scorer of all time, he was a solid free throw shooter, a great defensive player, a good passer and an ultra competitive player who would play through injuries, point? Jordan worked his rear off on the little things as well as the big things...the hype machine Vick is a one dimensional primadonna who doesnt work hard and certainly isnt polished in all areas of being an NFL QB...

I said after watching Matt Schaub for a few games the Turd Bird organization had their worst nightmare, that Vick would suck and somebody behind him would be better...when there was only Doug Johnson and Kurt Kittner there, nobody would say much...but Schaub is a real QB prospect...

David

[dbair1967]

Oh and one mroe thing...depsite being really atrocious in the preseason and giving ZERO hint that he'd even be a marginal player this yr, the Atlanta Journal this Sunday ran a cover page with the hype machine taking off his shirt to reveal a superman uniform

I hope he throws 5 picks and gets sacked 10 times this week in SF, despite the fact I hate the Niners with a passion

David

[Doomsday101]

I'm impressed with Vick running the ball but he is not a RB he is a QB and his passing skills are not that good. yes Atlanta won with him and did so because he of his ability to run not because of his passing skills

[Danny White]

"Absolutely, there is zero percent chance of that happening. Zero," Mora said, according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. "Let me ask you this, would you pull Michael Jordan? Well, I won't pull Mike Vick. I absolutely will not pull Mike Vick. He could be 0-for-100, and he's going to throw pass number 101."

Comparing the loser Vick with the greatest basketball player, maybe greatest sports player in history shows what a true buffoon Mora is. Jordan not only was the greatest scorer of all time, he was a solid free throw shooter, a great defensive player, a good passer and an ultra competitive player who would play through injuries, point? Jordan worked his rear off on the little things as well as the big things...the hype machine Vick is a one dimensional primadonna who doesnt work hard and certainly isnt polished in all areas of being an NFL QB...

I said after watching Matt Schaub for a few games the Turd Bird organization had their worst nightmare, that Vick would suck and somebody behind him would be better...when there was only Doug Johnson and Kurt Kittner there, nobody would say much...but Schaub is a real QB prospect...

David

What else is Mora supposed to say at this point? ATL has tied their whole future/marketing efforts to Vick. Plus, Mora's just happy to have been given a chance... he has a lot of others to answer to.

If/when Vick really flops in the regular season, I'm sure the whole organization will come to a point where they have to re-evaluate. But they're not going to pull that trigger before they have to.

[Tio]

I'm impressed with Vick running the ball but he is not a RB he is a QB and his passing skills are not that good. yes Atlanta won with him and did so because he of his ability to run not because of his passing skillsCommon misconception. WHen vick is using good mechanics, he has one of the best arms in the leagues

[Doomsday101]

Common misconception. WHen vick is using good mechanics, he has one of the best arms in the leagues

Vick has a strong arm I don't doubt that but I have watched him play on many occations and he leaves the pocket way too soon always looking to run the ball. he is a QB not a RB and unless he learns how to buy time behind the line of scrimmage and find his targets he will not last very long in this league as a runner. Sorry I'm just not impressed with him as a QB but I'm impressed with his athletic ability.

[Eddie]

What is Mora supposed to say??? Vick's his vet QB. No sane coach would start a green 6th round rookie QB (Matt Schaub) ... regardless of how "amazing" he played in pre-season.

Vick is Mora's best option. He has NO choice!!! Granted, he's taken no snaps in the preseason, but I guarantee, he's been studying 24-7. He may be abit rusty and I presume he's going to run ALOT.

This is the same situation as we have ... no way we start a rookie QB. No matter how poorly VT played in preseason.

[dbair1967]

Common misconception. WHen vick is using good mechanics, he has one of the best arms in the leagues

having a good arm has nothing to do wit overall passing skill..he has big arm but has ZERO QB'ing skill

David

[Chocolate Lab]

What is Mora supposed to say? As if he's somehow compelled to compare Vick to one of the best athletes ever?

Well, wait... Arthur Blank might *have* compelled Mora to say those things... I wouldn't be surprised if Blank wrote "Must extoll Mike Vick at every turn" into his contract. :)

Somehow I don't think Parcells would feed a young player cheese like this, do you? And rightly so. This nonsense might sink that entire franchise for years.

[Charles]

having a good arm has nothing to do wit overall passing skill..he has big arm but has ZERO QB'ing skill

David
But he was still able to lead his team into the play-offs and get a stunning win at Lambeau Field in the Wild Card in his 2nd year in the NFL.

His zero abilities at the Qb position but his presence elevated the 23rd ranked scoring offense to 5th overall in 2002. He made the ProBowl in his 2nd year, but he has zero QB skills!!!..

It's funny how these things work :eek:

[Waffle]

Oh and one mroe thing...depsite being really atrocious in the preseason and giving ZERO hint that he'd even be a marginal player this yr, the Atlanta Journal this Sunday ran a cover page with the hype machine taking off his shirt to reveal a superman uniform

I hope he throws 5 picks and gets sacked 10 times this week in SF, despite the fact I hate the Niners with a passion

David

Can you imagine Parcells saying this? It makes me laugh how the Falcons just coddle this guy. I wonder if Mora, being the rookie head coach and all, has to bring Vick water during practice?

[dbair1967]

What is Mora supposed to say??? Vick's his vet QB. No sane coach would start a green 6th round rookie QB (Matt Schaub) ... regardless of how "amazing" he played in pre-season.

Vick is Mora's best option. He has NO choice!!! Granted, he's taken no snaps in the preseason, but I guarantee, he's been studying 24-7. He may be abit rusty and I presume he's going to run ALOT.

This is the same situation as we have ... no way we start a rookie QB. No matter how poorly VT played in preseason.

Schaub was actually a 3rd rd pick...

I guess we'll see, I have NO doubt they wont replace Vick, owner Arthur Blank "look" will ensure that his hype machine baby is the QB even if the Falcons are 0-12 and Vick has a QB rating of 40...my point was its a nightmare situation for them, because I firmly believe Vick will stink...ultimate he will cost Mora his job because Blank will be looking for a scape-goat

David

[Danny White]

What is Mora supposed to say? As if he's somehow compelled to compare Vick to one of the best athletes ever?

Well, wait... Arthur Blank might *have* compelled Mora to say those things... I wouldn't be surprised if Blank wrote "Must extoll Mike Vick at every turn" into his contract. :)

Somehow I don't think Parcells would feed a young player cheese like this, do you? And rightly so. This nonsense might sink that entire franchise for years.

Again, I think it's all a part of the marketing scheme. He's being sold as the MJ of football to the season ticket holders, and he's a huge draw. They need to let the fans know he's going to play.

[dbair1967]

But he was still able to lead his team into the play-offs and get a stunning win at Lambeau Field in the Wild Card in his 2nd year in the NFL.

His zero abilities at the Qb position but his presence elevated the 23rd ranked Falcons offense to 5th overall in 2002. He made the ProBowl in his 2nd year, but he has zero QB skills!!!..

It's funny how these things work :eek:

he made the probowl because of some highlight film runs, he should have never been in that game...and yeah they won at Green Bay in the playoffs, but it was more because of what Brett Favre did (negative, he had 4 or 5 turnovers) than anything Vick did that day...

Dan Reeves did a great job covering up this guys weaknesses and for whatever reason got run for it. Vick IS a poor passer, and will prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt this season...

David

[jterrell]

Vick is their franchise player.

We aren't pulling RW because he gets beat deep. He did and we didn't.

Mora was hitching himself to Vick's wagon when he signed on as coach.

Vick was in the championship game with less help than McNabb as a pup. Vick will struggle to get this system because it is brand new to him and he will struggle to regain confidence taking hits. He will also remain the starter because long term thats whats best for the team. Schaub wouldn't start 3 games before Mora lost his job unless Vick was injured.

[dbair1967]

Vick is their franchise player.

We aren't pulling RW because he gets beat deep. He did and we didn't.

Mora was hitching himself to Vick's wagon when he signed on as coach.

Vick was in the championship game with less help than McNabb as a pup. Vick will struggle to get this system because it is brand new to him and he will struggle to regain confidence taking hits. He will also remain the starter because long term thats whats best for the team. Schaub wouldn't start 3 games before Mora lost his job unless Vick was injured.

what championship game? the Falcons didnt make it to the NFC Championship game that one yr with Vick in the playoffs, they got beat at Philly in 2nd rd

and if your referring to Va Tech vs FSU, that was a LOADED Va Tech team

David

[dbair1967]

What is Mora supposed to say? As if he's somehow compelled to compare Vick to one of the best athletes ever?

Well, wait... Arthur Blank might *have* compelled Mora to say those things... I wouldn't be surprised if Blank wrote "Must extoll Mike Vick at every turn" into his contract. :)

Somehow I don't think Parcells would feed a young player cheese like this, do you? And rightly so. This nonsense might sink that entire franchise for years.

totally agree with you and another post basically saying the same thing...Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Belichick, Joe Gibbs....none of these guys would put up with Vick's non-sense, and if an owner tried to make them do otherwise they'd quit and go someplace else and win

Mora is definitely a puppet for Blank, w/o question.

David

[Smashmouth24]

Vick is their franchise player.

We aren't pulling RW because he gets beat deep. He did and we didn't.

Mora was hitching himself to Vick's wagon when he signed on as coach.

Vick was in the championship game with less help than McNabb as a pup. Vick will struggle to get this system because it is brand new to him and he will struggle to regain confidence taking hits. He will also remain the starter because long term thats whats best for the team. Schaub wouldn't start 3 games before Mora lost his job unless Vick was injured.

He didn't get to a championship game. And he played in a run-heavy offense with Warrick Dunn and TJ Duckett, with Crumpler and Finneran to throw to. McNabb played in a pass-heavy offense with Darnell Autry and Chris Warren, with Charles Johnson and Chad Lewis to throw to.

[Charles]

he made the probowl because of some highlight film runs, he should have never been in that game...and yeah they won at Green Bay in the playoffs, but it was more because of what Brett Favre did (negative, he had 4 or 5 turnovers) than anything Vick did that day...

Dan Reeves did a great job covering up this guys weaknesses and for whatever reason got run for it. Vick IS a poor passer, and will prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt this season...

David
Matt Schaub..................same rhetoric I heard when Doug Johnson was having Pro-Bowl performances in the preseason.

Vick rushed for 700 plus yards from the QB position and had 8 russhing TDs to go with his 16 passing TDS. The offense went from 23rd overall in scoring to 5th. The offense aka Vick carried the team. His best Wr was Finnerin(sp) and Dunn was the featured RB.

You may not like his style, but Vick has won and gotten the job done every where he has played QB. Out of the 25 QBs with supposedly better QB skills drafted in the 1st Rd in the past 6-8 seasons only 5 have had similar success.

Your argument or predictions have a very weak foundation. I guess we'll see sooner or later..

[Doomsday101]

Matt Schaub..................same rhetoric I heard when Doug Johnson was having Pro-Bowl performances in the preseason.

Vick rushed for 700 plus yards from the QB position and had 8 russhing TDs to go with his 16 passing TDS. The offense went from 23rd overall in scoring to 5th. The offense aka Vick carried the team. His best Wr was Finnerin(sp) and Dunn was the featured RB.

You may not like his style, but Vick has won and gotten the job done every where he has played QB. Out of the 25 QBs with supposedly better QB skills drafted in the 1st Rd in the past 6-8 seasons only 5 have had similar success.

Your argument or predictions have a very weak foundation. I guess we'll see sooner or later..

Well if he keeps running then Atlanta may as well warm a spot on the bench for him because this is not college football where you will survive as a runner at the QB position.

[dbair1967]

Matt Schaub..................same rhetoric I heard when Doug Johnson was having Pro-Bowl performances in the preseason.

Vick rushed for 700 plus yards from the QB position and had 8 russhing TDs to go with his 16 passing TDS. The offense went from 23rd overall in scoring to 5th. The offense aka Vick carried the team. His best Wr was Finnerin(sp) and Dunn was the featured RB.

You may not like his style, but Vick has won and gotten the job done every where he has played QB. Out of the 25 QBs with supposedly better QB skills drafted in the 1st Rd in the past 6-8 seasons only 5 have had similar success.

Your argument or predictions have a very weak foundation. I guess we'll see sooner or later..

nobody ever thought of Doug Johnson as a probowl type QB, and nobody that has actually seen both (Johnson and Schaub) play would ever confuse the two...one is a true NFL prospect, the otehr isnt.

I guess we will see on Vick...but the guy is barely completing 50% of his passes for his career...he has a low yds per attempt and in the preseason this yr he looked like a class A high schooler on the field against the pro teams he faced...Reeves' offense totally masked this guys glaring weaknesses, Greg Knapp's offense wont because its predicated on quality QB play in terms of throwing with accruacy and making quick reads...

David

[Darpagar]

All this discussion about how good Vick is might be pointless. The way he runs the ball, he will probably go down with an injury early this season, and the next, and the next....

The world may never know how good he can be.

[Charles]

Well if he keeps running then Atlanta may as well warm a spot on the bench for him because this is not college football where you will survive as a runner at the QB position.

The common misconception is that Vick rans were mostly designed.

Vick ran because the O-line made Chandler into a human punching bag. Vick ran because Willie Jackson and Shawn Jefferson and Finneran were average WRs. Peerless Price came at a Price. Vick ran because Dunn and Ducket weren't a threat behind a below average O-line. Alge Crumpler was the best Wr on the team and he plays the TE position.

Vick ran out of necessasity. He was so good he account for a 1/3rd of the Falcons rushing TDs. He was the 2nd leading rusher in on the team. It'll be hard to convince any football fan that Reeves designed an offense that featured vick as the back-up RB.

[Sportsbabe]

Oh and one mroe thing...depsite being really atrocious in the preseason and giving ZERO hint that he'd even be a marginal player this yr, the Atlanta Journal this Sunday ran a cover page with the hype machine taking off his shirt to reveal a superman uniform

I hope he throws 5 picks and gets sacked 10 times this week in SF, despite the fact I hate the Niners with a passion

David

I'm feeling you David. Nothing against Vick, but this is ludicrous!!! Anybody who is not performing up to expectations should be dealt with. I too believe that the hype surrounding Vick is sickening. He can run. OK. But he's a QB. He hasn't wowed me with his passing abilities. Let's get real.

Oh yeah, and David, is it difficult carrying that "set" around? You're my hero ;)

[dbair1967]

The common misconception is that Vick rans were mostly designed.

Vick ran because the O-line made Chandler into a human punching bag. Vick ran because Willie Jackson and Shawn Jefferson and Finneran were average WRs. Peerless Price came at a Price. Vick ran because Dunn and Ducket weren't a threat behind a below average O-line. Alge Crumpler was the best Wr on the team and he plays the TE position.

Vick ran out of necessasity. He was so good he account for a 1/3rd of the Falcons rushing TDs. He was the 2nd leading rusher in on the team. It'll be hard to convince any football fan that Reeves designed an offense that featured vick as the back-up RB.

OK, its blatantly obvious you are a Vick homer at all costs...we'll agree to disagree on how good a QB is he, I think his passing numbers speak for thsemselves, so does what I see with my own eyes...the guys a glorified RB...

if he stays healthy for more than a handful of plays this yr (because Vick can only play if Vick is a 110%), we can discuss his awful QB stats after the season and see whats what then

David

[InmanRoshi]

Run, pass ... who gives a frick, he wins football games. He pretty much took Virginia Tech to the championship game by himself, and almost won the championship game single handedly against a vastly suprerior Florida State. He took an absolutely atrocious team of mediocre teammates and took them to the 2nd round of the playoffs in his first full season as a starter in the NFL as a 22 year old kid. When he got injured last year, they went back to being an atrocious football team, until he returned, in which they immediately won 3 of their last 4 games.

[Charles]

nobody ever thought of Doug Johnson as a probowl type QB, and nobody that has actually seen both (Johnson and Schaub) play would ever confuse the two...one is a true NFL prospect, the otehr isnt.

I guess we will see on Vick...but the guy is barely completing 50% of his passes for his career...he has a low yds per attempt and in the preseason this yr he looked like a class A high schooler on the field against the pro teams he faced...Reeves' offense totally masked this guys glaring weaknesses, Greg Knapp's offense wont because its predicated on quality QB play in terms of throwing with accruacy and making quick reads...

David
I agree only time will tell if Vick is a flash in the pan or a playmaking QB.

This season he's off to a horrendous start.

[Aikmaniac]

I'm impressed with Vick running the ball but he is not a RB he is a QB and his passing skills are not that good. yes Atlanta won with him and did so because he of his ability to run not because of his passing skills

Ok...? Didn't they still win?

[Sportsbabe]

What else is Mora supposed to say at this point?

I would hope he would man-up and say something that makes more sense. They are gonna continue their losing tradition if they don't change their philosophy. But, if the truth be told, The Cowboys are #1 and everybody else is fighting for last place. I hope they all go 2 & 14. :D

[dbair1967]

Run, pass ... who gives a frick, he wins football games. He pretty much took Virginia Tech to the championship game by himself, and almost won the championship game single handedly against a vastly suprerior Florida State. He took an absolutely atrocious team of mediocre teammates and took them to the 2nd round of the playoffs in his first full season as a starter in the NFL as a 22 year old kid. When he got injured last year, they went back to being an atrocious football team, until he returned, in which they immediately won 3 of their last 4 games.


LOL

David

[TheSkaven]

Oh and one mroe thing...depsite being really atrocious in the preseason and giving ZERO hint that he'd even be a marginal player this yr, the Atlanta Journal this Sunday ran a cover page with the hype machine taking off his shirt to reveal a superman uniform

I hope he throws 5 picks and gets sacked 10 times this week in SF, despite the fact I hate the Niners with a passion
C'mon David the guy is a superstar. I'd obviously take him here in a heartbeat. He's really not a good fit for the WCO, which despite what Mora says that is what they are going to run in Atlanta. I can't root against the guy, he's just too exciting to watch.

Maybe if he performs badly this season we can trade Atlanta Coakley for Vick. :) (sorry it had to be said)

[Charles]

Run, pass ... who gives a frick, he wins football games. He pretty much took Virginia Tech to the championship game by himself, and almost won the championship game single handedly against a vastly suprerior Florida State. He took an absolutely atrocious team of mediocre teammates and took them to the 2nd round of the playoffs in his first full season as a starter in the NFL as a 22 year old kid. When he got injured last year, they went back to being an atrocious football team, until he returned, in which they immediately won 3 of their last 4 games.
Of course if you state FACTUAL information that goes against anothers opinion you are labelled a homer. :D

[Sportsbabe]

Can you imagine Parcells saying this? It makes me laugh how the Falcons just coddle this guy. I wonder if Mora, being the rookie head coach and all, has to bring Vick water during practice?

Good one. And people complain about football not being like it was in the good ole days. Exhibit 1.

[dbair1967]

Of course if you state FACTUAL information that goes against anothers opinion you are labelled a homer. :D

you mean the factual information that he left out about Va Tech having one of the best defenses in the nation that yr? the factual info that he left out about being loaded at RB, OL and WR? The factual info he left out about Va Tech's special teams being some of the best ever?

the factual info he left out about the Falcons defense being at the top of the league in sacks and turnovers forced? the factual info that he left out about Dan Reeves beign a great coach?

David

[Yeagermeister]

IMO Vick is rb who can throw the ball...don't believe the hype

[dbair1967]

C'mon David the guy is a superstar. I'd obviously take him here in a heartbeat. He's really not a good fit for the WCO, which despite what Mora says that is what they are going to run in Atlanta. I can't root against the guy, he's just too exciting to watch.

Maybe if he performs badly this season we can trade Atlanta Coakley for Vick. :) (sorry it had to be said)

He's not a superstar...he's alot of hype right now...he's a tremendous scrambler that makes more plays than just about any QB in recent memory with his legs, but he is not a good QB...maybe he will be one day, my opinion from what I've seen so far is he wont

and its easy to root against somebody thats a punk, which Vick is

David

[InmanRoshi]

Of course if you state FACTUAL information that goes against anothers opinion you are labelled a homer. :D

And of course when people can't dispute a single one of your points and are left to "LOL's" or smiley faces, you know you've pretty much obliterated him in the discussion.

[TheSkaven]

He's not a superstar...he's alot of hype right now...he's a tremendous scrambler that makes more plays than just about any QB in recent memory with his legs, but he is not a good QB...maybe he will be one day, my opinion from what I've seen so far is he wont

and its easy to root against somebody thats a punk, which Vick is
Do you live in Georgia? Maybe you are getting killed with more hype than the rest of us. I know it's that way here, as much as the rest of you hate the Eagles, being in the Philadelphia suburbs and having to listen to the 16-0 talk day in and day out makes me nauseous.

From my perspective, Vick carries that team. They were 3-1 with him last year and 1-11 without him. He can make plays with his feet but he has a cannon for an arm. I'm not sure I would call him the Michael Jordan of football, but I'd take him over any QB in the league save Manning.

[Sportsbabe]

...and its easy to root against somebody thats a punk, which Vick is

Enlighten me on this. I haven't heard this rap on him before.

[Aikmaniac]

Do you live in Georgia? Maybe you are getting killed with more hype than the rest of us. I know it's that way here, as much as the rest of you hate the Eagles, being in the Philadelphia suburbs and having to listen to the 16-0 talk day in and day out makes me nauseous.

From my perspective, Vick carries that team. They were 3-1 with him last year and 1-11 without him. He can make plays with his feet but he has a cannon for an arm. I'm not sure I would call him the Michael Jordan of football, but I'd take him over any QB in the league save Manning.


Exactly. The reason Vick gets hype is because he is a gifted athlete who can change a game by himself.

Sure, we all hear a lot about him, but you have to give the guy credit. He is amazing and is pure entertainment to watch.

[Everlastingxxx]

"Let me ask you this, would you pull Michael Jordan?

Vick has the effect of a Michael Jordan, he is a playmaker and the difference maker for the Falcons, much like Jordan was for the Bulls. Take Vick or Jordan out of the team, and you have a very slim chance to win. Pretty simple comparison...if you dont believe it, look at last year when Vick went down.


Vick ...who doesnt work hard...

How do you know this? Surely coming back from a broken leg is hard rehab work.

...after watching Matt Schaub for a few games the Turd Bird organization had their worst nightmare.....but Schaub is a real QB prospect...

A nightmare that you have a decent backup QB? lol, Oh the horror! This was preseason, now the real games begin, lets see what Vick can do in a game that actually means something. Its funny how much some folks hate and love Vick.

[dbair1967]

And of course when people can't dispute a single one of your points and are left to "LOL's" or smiley faces, you know you've pretty much obliterated him in the discussion.

no, you obviously missed my response to him...

but anyone that argues that Vick is a one my team (as you and he suggested) honestly have bought into the ESPN scramble highlights and this idea that nobody can stop him and he's a one man wrecking crew, when nothign could be further from the truth

David

[dbair1967]

Do you live in Georgia? Maybe you are getting killed with more hype than the rest of us. I know it's that way here, as much as the rest of you hate the Eagles, being in the Philadelphia suburbs and having to listen to the 16-0 talk day in and day out makes me nauseous.

From my perspective, Vick carries that team. They were 3-1 with him last year and 1-11 without him. He can make plays with his feet but he has a cannon for an arm. I'm not sure I would call him the Michael Jordan of football, but I'd take him over any QB in the league save Manning.

I do live in Atlanta...and actually alot of the locals here are turning on him because of his percieved punk attitude, the idea that he doesnt need to work etc etc

David

[crazylegs]

Why all the hoop-la over Vick in Cowboys land, really who the hell cares? :confused:

[dbair1967]

Enlighten me on this. I haven't heard this rap on him before.

it's there..he definitely has a punk attitude

David

[Charles]

you mean the factual information that he left out about Va Tech having one of the best defenses in the nation that yr? the factual info that he left out about being loaded at RB, OL and WR? The factual info he left out about Va Tech's special teams being some of the best ever?
But coincidentally Michael Vick's Jersey is the only one that has been retired by the Virginia Tech along side Bruce Smiths, Jim Pyne and Frank Beamers.

The best o-lineman on that team and only O-lineman to get drafted was some kid named Matt Lehr.

Michael Vick was to Virginia Tech what Manning was to the Vols or Elway to the Cardinals or Leftwich and Pennington to Marshall evert other player on those teams come in a distant 2nd.


the factual info he left out about the Falcons defense being at the top of the league in sacks and turnovers forced? the factual info that he left out about Dan Reeves beign a great coach?

David

SO what happened the year after in 2003????

[BrAinPaiNt]

But coincidentally Michael Vick's Jersey is the only one that has been retired by the Virginia Tech along side Bruce Smiths, Jim Pyne and Frank Beamers.

The best o-lineman on that team and only O-lineman to get drafted was some kid named Matt Lehr.

Michael Vick was to Virginia Tech what Manning was to the Vols or Elway to the Cardinals or Leftwich and Pennington to Marshall evert other player on those teams come in a distant 2nd.



SO what happened the year after in 2003????


Just to correct you on something and then i will move this to the NFL section where it belongs.

Randy Moss was NOT a DISTANT 2nd to Pennington. If anything Pennington was a close 2nd to Moss at best.

Furthermore Leftwich had two pretty good WRs to go along him as well in Darius Watts (who was drafted in the 2nd round this year by the Broncos and has been impressing them) and Josh Davis who is still in school.

Ok just wanted to point that out. :cool:

[Eddie]

Seems like there's alot of anti-Vick sentiment around here. I wonder why???

Look around the league and ask how many coaches would trade their starting QB for Vick straight up? I have a feeling the answer is in the 30's ...

But for some reason, I wonder what kind of backlash we'd get if Vick became a Cowboy.

[dbair1967]

But coincidentally Michael Vick's Jersey is the only one that has been retired by the Virginia Tech along side Bruce Smiths, Jim Pyne and Frank Beamers.

The best o-lineman on that team and only O-lineman to get drafted was some kid named Matt Lehr.

Michael Vick was to Virginia Tech what Manning was to the Vols or Elway to the Cardinals or Leftwich and Pennington to Marshall evert other player on those teams come in a distant 2nd.



SO what happened the year after in 2003????

people figured out Wade Phillip's defense...he did an amazing smoke and mirrors job in 02...the Falcons lost alot and lost badly last yr because #1, their defense couldnt stop anyone...the Falcons had 39 takeaways and 47 sacks, and finished near the top of the league it pts allowed

by the way, the great 02 playoff season you and some others keep referring to. Their best win during the regular season was at the Giants (a playoff team) with Doug Johnson at QB...they beat one team with a winning record (New Orleans, which didnt make the playoffs) with Vick at QB...they did tie Pittsburgh and then did win at Green bay in the playoffs, with Vick throwing for a grand total of 117 yds...by the way, the week before the playoff game Green Bay had a chance to wrap up home field advantage but were DRUBBED at the Jets 42-17, indicating green bay was never that god a team to begin with, and they played liek it the following week in losing at home to Atlanta...Favre completed less than half his passes, and threw a couple picks, I think he also lost a fumble or two that day...

David

[dbair1967]

Seems like there's alot of anti-Vick sentiment around here. I wonder why???

Look around the league and ask how many coaches would trade their starting QB for Vick straight up? I have a feeling the answer is in the 30's ...

But for some reason, I wonder what kind of backlash we'd get if Vick became a Cowboy.

that might be true now, though I think after he plays poorly this yr that number will dramtically change

David

[Charles]

Just to correct you on something and then i will move this to the NFL section where it belongs.

Randy Moss was NOT a DISTANT 2nd to Pennington. If anything Pennington was a close 2nd to Moss at best.

Furthermore Leftwich had two pretty good WRs to go along him as well in Darius Watts (who was drafted in the 2nd round this year by the Broncos and has been impressing them) and Josh Davis who is still in school.

Ok just wanted to point that out. :cool:
Moss was a great Wr for Marshall, but he didn't command and get the respect from teammates, fans and the football community the way Vick, Pennington and Leftwich did.

There are reasons why even after having great success at Marshall, Moss still dropped in the draft. His of field problems at Marshall are legendary.

Trust me on this one BP Moss's dirty laundry at Marshall makes his problems at Florida State look like child play.

[InmanRoshi]

Its pretty crazy how Wade Phillips' defense, who has been in the legue for a decade, couldn't be figured out when Vick was the starter the entire year in 2002, then suddenly figured when Vick was out early in the year in 2003, then suddenly not figured out again for the final 4 games of the season when ... coincidentally enough ... Vick was healthy again.

Wow, just some amazing and uncanny coincidences there.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Moss was a great Wr for Marshall, but he didn't command and get the respect from teammates, fans and the football community the way Vick, Pennington and Leftwich did.

There are reasons why even after having great success at Marshall, Moss still dropped in the draft. His of field problems at Marshall are legendary.

Trust me on this one BP Moss's dirty laundry at Marshall makes his problems at Florida State look like child play.


Trust me MOSS put Marshall on the Map...people knew Moss before they ever heard of Pennington on a national scale.

Gee I think I would know this as I only live a few hours from Marshall and was watching them before they jumped to Div IA Football and into the Mac.

So ...Trust me on this one.

Chad is a great player, smart player and a Hell of a Leader...But Moss put Marshall on the Map...and is flat out the better athlete.

[Charles]

that might be true now, though I think after he plays poorly this yr that number will dramtically change

David
We'll see........... He could easily fluke his way into the ProBowl again. Who knows. If a pot head could play QB on a DallasCowboys play-off team against supposedly the hardest schedule at the time then I believe anyhting is possible. :)

[Sportsbabe]

it's there..he definitely has a punk attitude

David

I thought you had some evidence. It's just your opinion that he's a punk. OK. I was with you on the hype & his QB skills, but I don't ever promote calling somebody out of their name. If he has an attitude problem then their should be some documented evidence.

[Charles]

Trust me MOSS put Marshall on the Map...people knew Moss before they ever heard of Pennington on a national scale.

Gee I think I would know this as I only live a few hours from Marshall and was watching them before they jumped to Div IA Football and into the Mac.

So ...Trust me on this one.

Chad is a great player, smart player and a Hell of a Leader...But Moss put Marshall on the Map...and is flat out the better athlete.

Thanks for making my point!!!.

Vick is to Tech what Chad was to Marshall, what Elway was to Stanford, what Manning was to Tennesse, great player, smart player and great leader.

Randy Moss whilst at Marshall was lacking in 2 out of those 3 areas.

I agree Moss put Marshall on the map Nationally with his highlight catches, but guys like us who live in the area or have many friends or co-workers from the area hear through the grape vine about players. We know about them before they are on the cover of the National magazines.

I made trips to W.Va from DC/MD area to watch Jason Williams and Moss play high school basketball. The same way I watched Leftwich play high school football at HD woodson or the No.1 high school prospect in 2004 Derrick Williams play at Roosevelt High school 3 lights down the street from my apartment.

Those from the area know that even though Moss was the best athlete, Chad and Leftwich meant more to the team and the University.

Moss was a great athlete, but he WAS a distant 2nd to Chad and Leftwich in respect to what Manning, Elway, Chad or Leftwich meant to their respective alumnis.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Thanks for making my point!!!.

Vick is to Tech what Chad was to Marshall, what Elway was to Stanford, what Manning was to Tennesse, great player, smart player and great leader.

Randy Moss whilst at Marshall was lacking in 2 out of those 3 areas.

I agree Moss put Marshall on the map Nationally with his highlight catches, but guys like us who live in the area or have many friends or co-workers from the area hear through the grape vine about players. We know about them before they are on the cover of the National magazines.

I made trips to W.Va from DC/MD area to watch Jason Williams and Moss play high school basketball. The same way I watched Leftwich play high school football at HD woodson or the No.1 high school prospect in 2004 Derrick Williams play at Roosevelt High school 3 lights down the street from my apartment.

Those from the area know that even though Moss was the best athlete, Chad and Leftwich meant more to the team and the University.

Moss was a great athlete, but he WAS a distant 2nd to Chad and Leftwich in respect to what Manning, Elway, Chad or Leftwich meant to their respective alumnis.


Actually you are partially right and partially wrong.

Moss was more important to Marshall because he put Marshall on the map and helped them go out and win the Mac title when they first moved to the Mac.

Furthermore Pennington was asked to, and did, redshirt his first year because the team felt they had a better chance with Moss starting with Eric Kresser at QB.

Also Moss put marshall on the map and the big thing that was questioned ,when he decided to leave and go pro, by the media was....Will Pennington be able to do as well without Moss.

Also you said you Watched Moss and Williams play...then you are also aware that even though they played on the same team, and even though Williams went on to the NBA....Moss was the one that won West Virginia's Mr Basketball title instead of Williams....which further goes to show the respect he garned for his skills.

Another thing, Moss rarely if ever stayed out of a game unless the coaches forced him to do so at Marshall...even though he had some injuries that many would have sat out with....he did this and the coaches let him do this because he could handle it and they knew what he meant to the team.

Furthermore it was the production of Moss and the system at marshall was instrumental in getting better recruits to Marshall especially in the WR department.

Moss again was a finalist for the Heisman BEFORE Pennington.

Also your original post that I replied to did not contain anything about leadership itself....my take was that it showed that the player was so talented that it help make the team what it was.

Either way Moss was never and will never (for those who follow marshall) be considered a distant 2nd to Pennington...as once again Moss put marshall on the map.

Moss only went to marshall because his FSU gig fell through because of his troubles so he went to Marshall as they were not in the Div1A which meant he did not have to sit out a year....prior to Moss coming not too many people ever even heard of Marshall.

Once Moss started making plays and putting up huge numbers (even with Eric Kresser starting while Chad Red Shirted) the nation started taking notice.

[Charles]

Actually you are partially right and partially wrong.

Moss was more important to Marshall because he put Marshall on the map and helped them go out and win the Mac title when they first moved to the Mac.

Furthermore Pennington was asked to, and did, redshirt his first year because the team felt they had a better chance with Moss starting with Eric Kresser at QB.

Also Moss put marshall on the map and the big thing that was questioned ,when he decided to leave and go pro, by the media was....Will Pennington be able to do as well without Moss.

Also you said you Watched Moss and Williams play...then you are also aware that even though they played on the same team, and even though Williams went on to the NBA....Moss was the one that won West Virginia's Mr Basketball title instead of Williams....which further goes to show the respect he garned for his skills.

Another thing, Moss rarely if ever stayed out of a game unless the coaches forced him to do so at Marshall...even though he had some injuries that many would have sat out with....he did this and the coaches let him do this because he could handle it and they knew what he meant to the team.

Furthermore it was the production of Moss and the system at marshall was instrumental in getting better recruits to Marshall especially in the WR department.

Moss again was a finalist for the Heisman BEFORE Pennington.

Also your original post that I replied to did not contain anything about leadership itself....my take was that it showed that the player was so talented that it help make the team what it was.

Either way Moss was never and will never (for those who follow marshall) be considered a distant 2nd to Pennington...as once again Moss put marshall on the map.

Moss only went to marshall because his FSU gig fell through because of his troubles so he went to Marshall as they were not in the Div1A which meant he did not have to sit out a year....prior to Moss coming not too many people ever even heard of Marshall.

Once Moss started making plays and putting up huge numbers (even with Eric Kresser starting while Chad Red Shirted) the nation started taking notice.

BP look at the premise again: Michael Vick was to Virginia Tech what Manning was to the Vols or Elway to the Cardinals or Leftwich and Pennington to Marshall

What made those players really special, not only were they great players like Moss, they were also smart players, they were also great leaders on their football. Moss was seriously lacking in leadership and smartness category. He would have never ended up in Marshall if he was a smart and took care of his business as a collegiate athlete. He would have never dropped in the draft if he showed minimum leadership qualities. This is the same guy who stated he takes plays off hours before picking up a hefty pay check.

I love Moss the player, but he has never proven to be a consumate professional on any level until last year in the off-season when he bought into Mike Tice system. If it wasn't for Chris Carter's influence early in those 1st couple of seasons I believe his rap sheet would have been longer.

For these reasons I believe Moss is a distant 2nd. He might resonate louder with the National fans because he made spectacular catches and was very productive. He did attract recruits to Marshall and get the school National exposure, butin respect to being a team leader and smart player for Marshall university, Moss comes in a distant 2nd when compared to the likes or Chad or Byron, Elway or Manning for their respective schools.

[jobberone]

But he was still able to lead his team into the play-offs and get a stunning win at Lambeau Field in the Wild Card in his 2nd year in the NFL.

His zero abilities at the Qb position but his presence elevated the 23rd ranked scoring offense to 5th overall in 2002. He made the ProBowl in his 2nd year, but he has zero QB skills!!!..

It's funny how these things work :eek:

I'm not sure he is a Parcells type QB but I bet you Bill would try to coach him up.

When (if) he learns he'll survive longer and do more damage throwing the ball he will be one of the best QBs in the league.

I wouldn't take his ability to run away from him but I would try to make him use it more to his advantage.

Send him this way.

Sup Q. You still posting on the "other" board or is that someone else?

[Charles]

I'm not sure he is a Parcells type QB but I bet you Bill would try to coach him up.

When (if) he learns he'll survive longer and do more damage throwing the ball he will be one of the best QBs in the league.

I wouldn't take his ability to run away from him but I would try to make him use it more to his advantage.

Send him this way.

Sup Q. You still posting on the "other" board or is that someone else?
Hey j

I'd take Vick too in a Newyork minute. I bet a Vick Vs. Henson thread could garner 200 replies ;).

Nope I haven't been posting any where else lately. I don't even have the time to post here as much as I used too. It gotta be someone else using "Qcard". I dropped the handle after everyone's favorite whipping boy got cut.

I am working a 9-5 and going to school in the evenings. My daughter is 3 now so I don't even have time on the weekends to post.

[dbair1967]

Its pretty crazy how Wade Phillips' defense, who has been in the legue for a decade, couldn't be figured out when Vick was the starter the entire year in 2002, then suddenly figured when Vick was out early in the year in 2003, then suddenly not figured out again for the final 4 games of the season when ... coincidentally enough ... Vick was healthy again.

Wow, just some amazing and uncanny coincidences there.

I'm just going to leave this alone...like I said, after he sux this yr we can have this discussion again

David

[jobberone]

Hey j

I'd take Vick too in a Newyork minute. I bet a Vick Vs. Henson thread could garner 200 replies ;).

Nope I haven't been posting any where else lately. I don't even have the time to post here as much as I used too. It gotta be someone else using "Qcard". I dropped the handle after everyone's favorite whipping boy got cut.

I am working a 9-5 and going to school in the evenings. My daughter is 3 now so I don't even have time on the weekends to post.

Not sure why anyone could have a debate over Vick and Henson right now but you're right. I bet you there would be a lot of noise over who was the future of the team and whatever.

Hope the school is going well and I can't believe your daughter is three. I still remember when she was born from "that other board".

Glad you are here. And glad you're raising that kid up right! She'll be wanting your keys before you know it so enjoy the next few years. :D

[jcollins28]

Where is Rush Limbaugh? I wonder what he thinks of Vick?

[LaTunaNostra]

Let me throw some coals on the fire. :D
___________________________________________

Vick won't get quick hook, Mora says By MATT WINKELJOHN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 9/8/04


Flowery Branch -- Michael Vick didn't look much like himself in the Falcons' preseason, but even if he's sub-par when Atlanta opens the regular season Sunday at San Francisco, he's not going anywhere other than back on the field.

Coach Jim Mora said No. 7 will not get the hook. The coach, in fact, seemed surprised by the question.

"Absolutely, there is zero percent chance of that happening. Zero," Mora said, chuckling while forming a "0" with his thumb and forefinger. "Let me ask you this, would you pull Michael Jordan? Well, I won't pull Mike Vick. I absolutely will not pull Mike Vick. He could be 0-for-100, and he's going to throw pass number 101."

In 29 snaps, Vick rarely appeared comfortable in a new offensive system, completing five of 12 passes for 35 yards and an interception, also losing a fumble.

In a league where two-time MVP Kurt Warner can lose his job to former Falcons practice squad quarterback Marc Bulger, how crazy can this question be after Vick mustered a preseason passer rating of 14.6 to backup Matt Schaub's 99.7?

His shortage of playing time and lack of effectiveness have created a buzz, and a national football reporter said on the radio Tuesday that Vick would be the NFL's least-prepared starting quarterback this week.

He and his best friend, injured safety Keion Carpenter, chatted about this.

"We just laugh at that, use it as motivation," Vick said. "It fuels my fire, and I like to show and prove. I know what I can do. Why shouldn't people be confident? Last year, I did everything I could to come back [from a broken right fibula] . . . and I come out this year and don't play [much] in the preseason, and people start dogging me."

A few things have driven the chatter, including the feeling that Vick and his coaches have been pre-occupied, even obsessed, by the prospect of re-injury.

"I thought about avoiding injury [in the preseason]," Vick said. "I had a bad experience last year, and I was just trying to protect myself. I guess I just got my mind set [that] preseason games don't count. It's hard for me to get up for a preseason game."

Offensive coordinator Greg Knapp said, "Our first priority [this summer] was making sure Mike stayed healthy."

Mora's apparently tired of being asked if Vick fits in a West Coast offensive scheme. Wednesday, he tried to put some distance between that question, or even change it.

"We don't run the West Coast offense," Mora said. "We're going to put an end to that right now. It's not the West Coast offense because we're not in the West, and it's a completely different scheme than what you would think of a West Coast scheme. Now, maybe the verbiage is the same, but . . . the running game is completely different.

"The play-action pass game is completely different. The movement game [where Vick throws on the run] is completely different. There are some elements of the dropback game that are the same, but other than that, it's not the West Coast offense."

http://www.ajc.com/falcons/content/sports/falcons/0904/09falcons.html

[Charles]

I'm just going to leave this alone...like I said, after he sux this yr we can have this discussion again

David
It's been to weeks.

Matt Schaub still looks like a solid back-up ;)

[Charles]

I'm just going to leave this alone...like I said, after he sux this yr we can have this discussion again

David
Well its been 3 months and some change. Vick has suxed his way to a 11-3 record.

How'd you like that crow served?