Our secondary

[SMCowboy]

Everyone is talking about how bad our secondary is and has been. But, while they have no been great, they have not been all that bad. We held Culpepper to only 242 yrd passing. And limited Moss to only 4 catches for only 27 yrds.

I am not saying that they played great either, but we have to keep in mind who was on the other side also. Anyone who thought we would shut down the Vikings, or even thought it was reasonable to hold the Vikings to under 300 yrds total O was diliusional. We are playing the best O in football after all.

[Catch-22]

and 5 TD passes :rolleyes:

[Rack Bauer]

Everyone is talking about how bad our secondary is and has been. But, while they have no been great, they have not been all that bad. We held Culpepper to only 242 yrd passing. And limited Moss to only 4 catches for only 27 yrds.

I am not saying that they played great either, but we have to keep in mind who was on the other side also. Anyone who thought we would shut down the Vikings, or even thought it was reasonable to hold the Vikings to under 300 yrds total O was diliusional. We are playing the best O in football after all.


I don't care about our secondary. We can have 6 Deions back there, but if our pass rush continues to be NON existent they will get burned. Did we even know Culpepper down today (runs not included)?

[Sarge]

and 5 TD passes :rolleyes:

Nothing to worry about there?

:rolleyes:

[blindzebra]

I don't care about our secondary. We can have 6 Deions back there, but if our pass rush continues to be NON existent they will get burned. Did we even know Culpepper down today (runs not included)?

We actually got credit for two sacks. :p

[Gaede]

Dixon didn't play that bad. I think Hunter did, Reeves surprisingly got a lot of playing time and didn't get burnt once

Pass rush wasn't there though, and our D-line got pushed around

[CowboysNumeroUno]

Today, it didnt matter whether we had a pass rush, Culpepper wouldn't allow a sack.

BTW

Where was B. Thorton? I didnt see him at all.

[Silverstar]

Our front 4 got swallowed by their mammoth OL.

Let's just hope Carson can add something when returns next week.

[Champsheart]

Our secondary played OK.

Our front 7 is what failed us.
Once we started getting ripped in the short middle by the backs, TE's, and Culpepper started running for first downs it was over.
Not to mention horrible takling and getting gashed by the run.
Minnesota has way to much when Culpepper has all day.
I fault the play of the front 7. Our game plan dictated they played well, and they came up way short.

[LatinG187]

I would love it if Dallas drafts this guy next year :D

Antrel Rolle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/LatinG187/Miami%20Hurricanes/Rolle.jpg

Unless our other corners manage to show something this season,I would really try to make a run for Antrel Rolle.But we still got the rest of the season to improve and hopefully when D.Wood comes back he'll be ready to make a big impact.To be honest our whole Defense needs to step up,not just the secondary.

[Rack Bauer]

Today, it didnt matter whether we had a pass rush, Culpepper wouldn't allow a sack.


You've got to be kdding me. He didn't "Allow" a sack? He didn't have to work hard at it either cuz no one got near him.

[Rack Bauer]

I would love it if Dallas drafts this guy next year :D

Antrel Rolle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v431/LatinG187/Miami%20Hurricanes/Rolle.jpg

Unless our other corners manage to show something this season,I would really try to make a run for Antrel Rolle.But we still got the rest of the season to improve and hopefully when D.Wood comes back he'll be ready to make a big impact.To be honest our whole Defense needs to step up,not just the secondary.


This would be a STUPID draft pick.

Or is he capable of covering for like 7 seconds every play? We need a pass rush, not another multimillionaire in the secondary.

[Cbz40]

Give the Vike and Moss some credit..........we were so worried about Moss it took us out of our normal defensive style of play. But that's what Moss will do to you.

On the other hand our no pressur front 4 still looks like it did last season.

[lwehlers]

This would be a STUPID draft pick.

Or is he capable of covering for like 7 seconds every play? We need a pass rush, not another multimillionaire in the secondary.

now i totally agree with this statement. our defense will not be playoff ready until we get someone who can get pressure on the qb. also i do not think that hunter played awlful it is just when culpepper can stand all day and wait for someone to get open our defense is not going to stop anyone. one bright side this will probaly be other then the eagles the best offensive football team we will play this year. now that does not make me feel any better about how bad this team played today.

[Dallas]

Terrible showing all around by the D. No matter how we matched up with the guys Culpepper was always finding another of his guys open. This frustrated me to no end. Its like Zimmer didnt even gameplan the Vikes. One other thing. I was very dissapointed we showed up having Hunter man that side of the field. Everytime I saw him on Moss he was either tugging his jersey or obviously interfering somehow. I cant believe we didnt get more PI calls on him.

The DLINE had ZERO push and ZERO pressure. Smith was running over them all day long. Even when they stacked Asmith up in the backfield he still cut out for 10 yrds. Im hoarse from screaming at the tv all day.

Its going to be a long year if things keep going this way. Did Thornton ever make the field?

Best showing for Dallas in the game was the WR and VT and Reshard Lee. I just love this kid. Hats off to Tglenn and Key and AB. Those guys showed up to play. Bryant really came on in this game. Keep it coming AB. The OL did a great job until Tucker/Adams started piling up the penalties.


Next week....Lets hope the D can somehow be addressed.

[SMCowboy]

After the 2nd quater, you could tell our DE's and LB's got scared of attacking Culpepper after he beat them so bad with his legs. I remember a coule of times that we had Culpepper outside the pocket and had DE's open and they were afraid to attack because of what he did to us with his legs in the 2nd quarter.

Not to mention, the Vikings do probally have the best OL in all of football, and an already short handed DL was expecially short handed missing Leo Carson, our second best DT.

[SMCowboy]

now i totally agree with this statement. our defense will not be playoff ready until we get someone who can get pressure on the qb. also i do not think that hunter played awlful it is just when culpepper can stand all day and wait for someone to get open our defense is not going to stop anyone. one bright side this will probaly be other then the eagles the best offensive football team we will play this year. now that does not make me feel any better about how bad this team played today.

lwehlers, this is hand down the best offense we will see this year. Heck, this is most likely hands down the best offense in ALL of football.

[Nors]

Everyone is talking about how bad our secondary is and has been. But, while they have no been great, they have not been all that bad. We held Culpepper to only 242 yrd passing. And limited Moss to only 4 catches for only 27 yrds.

I am not saying that they played great either, but we have to keep in mind who was on the other side also. Anyone who thought we would shut down the Vikings, or even thought it was reasonable to hold the Vikings to under 300 yrds total O was diliusional. We are playing the best O in football after all.

We gave up 5 passing TD's and in excess of 425 yards. Caused ZERO tunovers. Thats about as inept a defensive/secondary performance as we could have seen.


Moss had 2 TD's and caused a long PI call on our vaunted secondary.

[ABQCOWBOY]

lwehlers, this is hand down the best offense we will see this year. Heck, this is most likely hands down the best offense in ALL of football.


The defensive backfield played pretty well today considering the circumstances. Of all the DBs, Newman probably got burned the most. What's that tell you?

I hope we can finally put it to rest on the best defense in the NFL last year, on the fact that we did in fact play many good teams at the right time and that we don't need another high draft pick in the secondary. Our defense will always be handled like this until we can get pressure with the front four and stop the run. Simple as that.

[Rack Bauer]

We gave up 5 passing TD's and in excess of 425 yards. Caused ZERO tunovers. Thats about as inept a defensive/secondary performance as we could have seen.


Moss had 2 TD's and caused a long PI call on our vaunted secondary.



C'mon, Nors, you aren't that simple minded. You're just purposelly ignorning that fact that we had NO PASS RUSH so that you can get back on the "We should of traded for Ty Law" tirade. Law woulnd't of made much of a difference. Even he can't cover forever. We need a pass rusher more then anything.

[Rack Bauer]

The defensive backfield played pretty well today considering the circumstances. Of all the DBs, Newman probably got burned the most. What's that tell you?

I hope we can finally put it to rest on the best defense in the NFL last year, on the fact that we did in fact play many good teams at the right time and that we don't need another high draft pick in the secondary. Our defense will always be handled like this until we can get pressure with the front four and stop the run. Simple as that.



Exactly. Great post. We could trade for Ty Law, Mike McKenzie, AND Chris McAllister, but if our pass rush doesn't improve DRASTICALLY it wouldn't make a difference.

[lwehlers]

lwehlers, this is hand down the best offense we will see this year. Heck, this is most likely hands down the best offense in ALL of football.

now i agree this is the best offense in the nfc. i do not agree that this is the best offense in football. i think the patriots, colts and chiefs and the vikings are best offenses in the league. i am just glad that we will not have to play all of those other teams. the eagles and seahawks are the best offenses we will face the rest of the year. lets just hope we can win atleast one game between those teams.

[ABQCOWBOY]

We gave up 5 passing TD's and in excess of 425 yards. Caused ZERO tunovers. Thats about as inept a defensive/secondary performance as we could have seen.


Moss had 2 TD's and caused a long PI call on our vaunted secondary.

OMG! This is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. Watch the game again. We got beat up front. No pressure, no containment and a complete inability to stop the run. Newman got beat on a push off and a quick slant. 5-10 against 6-4, bound to happen. Hunter got beat on a very nice, stretched out pass, the list goes on. those guys got hung out to try. No pressure means you have all day to throw. The issue here was not the secondary. It was no rush and poor run defense.

[AdamJT13]

and 5 TD passes

With three of those being 3 yards or less and another being by a running back against a linebacker. Campbell's catch was the only one that was a bad play by the secondary. Take away that play and Dixon's interference, and I'd be pretty happy with how our secondary played.

[MichaelWinicki]

We gave up 5 passing TD's and in excess of 425 yards. Caused ZERO tunovers. Thats about as inept a defensive/secondary performance as we could have seen.


Moss had 2 TD's and caused a long PI call on our vaunted secondary.


I agree Nors it was inept.

[Nors]

With three of those being 3 yards or less and another being by a running back against a linebacker. Campbell's catch was the only one that was a bad play by the secondary. Take away that play and Dixon's interference, and I'd be pretty happy with how our secondary played.

I'm not happy with that performance. 5 TD passes given up? What about the Pass Interception calls that set up "short" TD passes?

[LaTunaNostra]

OMG! This is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. Watch the game again. We got beat up front. No pressure, no containment and a complete inability to stop the run. Newman got beat on a push off and a quick slant. 5-10 against 6-4, bound to happen. Hunter got beat on a very nice, stretched out pass, the list goes on. those guys got hung out to try. No pressure means you have all day to throw. The issue here was not the secondary. It was no rush and poor run defense.
And let's not forget the clownish misreading of Culpepper, or the "hesitations" like Coakley's.

No one on D played well. But imho, the backers had a specially awful day.

Nors, I don't think Chad Eaton's got much left either.

[Nors]

PASSING ATT CMP YDS SK/YD TD LG IN RT
D.Culpepper 23 17 242 2/0 5 63 0 147.1
R.Moss 1 1 37 0/0 0 37 0 118.8

Total 24 18 279 2/0 5 63 0 152.6


Not sure but is that near the highest QB rating possible?
I know, secondary played fine. :rolleyes:

Dallas dropped the ball at CB this offseason. UDFA CB Nate Jones dressed over 4th rounder Thornton! Winfield? Law?

[Nors]

And let's not forget the clownish misreading of Culpepper, or the "hesitations" like Coakley's.

No one on D played well. But imho, the backers had a specially awful day.

Nors, I don't think Chad Eaton's got much left either.

Chad is a multiple people eater, he's fine. In fact he didn't play as much as I hoped. We need to get Shanle, Ogbogu, Thornton, Nate Jones on the field more. Keith Davis had a good game actually!

Our DE's did nothing, Our LB's were abused and our secondary was sad.

My boy Erik Coleman made the pick prime time - I think he's all that.
He'd be sweet in our secondary. He's a playmaker.

We are not using Roy right. Travesty.

[Nors]

And let's not forget the clownish misreading of Culpepper, or the "hesitations" like Coakley's.

No one on D played well. But imho, the backers had a specially awful day.

Nors, I don't think Chad Eaton's got much left either.

Does anybody make a diving catch better than Terry Glenn?

[LaTunaNostra]

Chad is a multiple people eater, he's fine. In fact he didn't play as much as I hoped. We need to get Shanle, Ogbogu, Thornton, Nate Jones on the field more. Keith Davis had a good game actually!

Our DE's did nothing, Our LB's were abused and our secondary was sad.

My boy Erik Coleman made the pick prime time - I think he's all that.
He'd be sweet in our secondary. He's a playmaker.

We are not using Roy right. Travesty.

Erik Coleman got beat BAD on a TD by Chad Johnson today.

Stop making it sound like he's perfect, Nors. He's like any young player - gonna blow some assignments and look raw. But unlike Pete Hunter, you seem to be able to give him the benefit of that doubt.

[Nors]

Erik Coleman got beat BAD on a TD by Chad Johnson today.

Stop making it sound like he's perfect, Nors. He's like any young player - gonna blow some assignments and look raw. But unlike Pete Hunter, you seem to be able to give him the benefit of that doubt.

Parcells 101 - YOU GET BEAT COME BACK AND MAKE A PLAY.

Coleman the Rookie came back and made a game impacting turnover. That is stellar.


Hunter, the 3rd year Corner made no plays. Parcells 102 on 3rd years players that don't show something?

[jimmy40]

Does anybody make a diving catch better than Terry Glenn?Lord knows he got plenty of practice last year.

[Nors]

Lord knows he got plenty of practice last year.


Imagine if Carter underthrew a wide open Bryant behind secondary like VT did tonight? happens.

[jimmy40]

Imagine if Carter underthrew a wide open Bryant behind secondary like VT did tonight? happens.
He wouldn't have stayed in the pocket long enough to throw the pass.

[lspain1]

I'll chime in on this and say that our pass rush was non-existent all game. When we blitzed the middle of the field looked empty (except for Vikings going for big gains). We made Minnesota look awesome today. We'll see if others can do better.

[Nors]

He wouldn't have stayed in the pocket long enough to throw the pass.
Last year = 10-6

0-1 this year and over 400 yards given up.

[EveryoneElse]

Last year = 10-6

0-1 this year and over 400 yards given up.

We started 0-1 last year against the Vickless Falcons.

[Rack Bauer]

We started 0-1 last year against the Vickless Falcons.


We had a lesser RB, OL, and WR core last year too.

[EveryoneElse]

We had a lesser RB, OL, and WR core last year too.


We also had a lesser QB, punter, and we had Ekuban too.

[btcutter]

After the 2nd quater, you could tell our DE's and LB's got scared of attacking Culpepper after he beat them so bad with his legs. I remember a coule of times that we had Culpepper outside the pocket and had DE's open and they were afraid to attack because of what he did to us with his legs in the 2nd quarter.

Not to mention, the Vikings do probally have the best OL in all of football, and an already short handed DL was expecially short handed missing Leo Carson, our second best DT.

Our DL is where the problem lie. No pass rush and can't stop the run. They start to "play" the run first which allow the OL to set and make it even harder to passrush after. Culpepper had all day to throw and didn't even break a sweat.

I actullay thought our secondary did ok. They covered well enough to force Culpepper to run on several occasions but our front 7 simple can't contain and tackle.

btw...give Bradie more PT....he's a player!

[Boy's fan in Giant land]

Yes, our D got tore up today. Against one of the top offenses in the league in their house. They averaged over 400 yds./game (422 I believe) throughout the preseason. Had I come in here shortly after the game, I'd have been spitting fire. I've calmed down somewhat now.

Only 5 or so teams in the entire league would have fared any better than we did today. Our defense will come together. Our offense gave us ALOT to look forward to. It's only the FIRST game people. We started this way last year and look where we ended up. Someone said earlier (Sarge?) that the "season is not a sprint, it's a marathon." That was sage advice. Let's put this behind us.

[AdamJT13]

I'm not happy with that performance. 5 TD passes given up?

The secondary gave up only one TD pass of longer than 3 yards. I don't blame a secondary for giving up 1-yard or 3-yard TD passes, just as I wouldn't blame the run defense for giving up 1-yard or 3-yard TD runs. At that point, the bigger blame goes to how the opponent got that far, not how they got the last 3 yards.

What about the Pass Interception calls that set up "short" TD passes?

I already commented on Dixon's interference. That was the secondary's worst play of the game. The other PI came on a pass from the 6-yard line, so it didn't really change much.

Really, it's not like Minnesota's wide receivers were running free for 20-yard gains all game long. Culpepper completed only nine passes to wide receivers, for only 84 yards -- and 44 of that came on one play. Those same three receivers averaged 163 yards per game and almost 16 yards per catch last season.

[HowAboutThemCowboys]

The D-line was bad, but our DB's continue to show poor technique. ie.... not turning around and playing the ball.

[Aikmaniac]

Did the D blitz at all? I didn't get to see the game since I'm in Tampa.

If the DL didn't get any pressure, you have to blitz.

[slick325]

We could have Haley, Sapp, Glover and Strahan as a front four and they couldn't hide a weak corner from an opposing offensive coordinator. I would just go max protection and put my best wideout up against Hunter or Reeves or Thornton and play pitch and catch all the way down the field. A pass rush is VERY important. I reiterate, VERY important. However, in the NFL you can never have enough high quality cover men.

[ABQCOWBOY]

We could have Haley, Sapp, Glover and Strahan as a front four and they couldn't hide a weak corner from an opposing offensive coordinator. I would just go max protection and put my best wideout up against Hunter or Reeves or Thornton and play pitch and catch all the way down the field. A pass rush is VERY important. I reiterate, VERY important. However, in the NFL you can never have enough high quality cover men.

I agree, but not at the expense of a decent pass rush. Your statement is true to a point. However, when a QB has the kind of time Culpepper had yesterday, it doesn't matter who's covering. It could be the best DB in the league and he's going to get beat. All you have to do is look at Newman's game yesterday and this proves out.

[OldButDeadly]

My whole thing with this secondary is:

What has anyone seen of Hunter that makes you think he MAY be great one day???

I see no glimmer...All I ever hear is "Man he is physically gifted"...whatever...

This could be a VERY long season with this secondary....

Kev

[ABQCOWBOY]

My whole thing with this secondary is:

What has anyone seen of Hunter that makes you think he MAY be great one day???

I see no glimmer...All I ever hear is "Man he is physically gifted"...whatever...

This could be a VERY long season with this secondary....

Kev

Well, I think this has some merrit but honetly, Hunter's play or really the secondary's play as a whole yesterday didn't get us beat. Our inability to pressure the passer, stop the run (especially on third down) and our complete lack of containment on Culpepper cost us this game.

While we may have issues in our defensive secondary, yesterday is not an indicator of that IMO. I thought they did a good job considering.

[slick325]

I agree, but not at the expense of a decent pass rush. Your statement is true to a point. However, when a QB has the kind of time Culpepper had yesterday, it doesn't matter who's covering. It could be the best DB in the league and he's going to get beat. All you have to do is look at Newman's game yesterday and this proves out.

I agree about getting pressure would cause the QB to make poor decisions and shorten the time a CB has to cover. However, when you have two cover corners you can blitz safeties, MLB's, OLB's or even Rowdy from time to time. Just look at the Ravens Super Bowl team. They brought OLB's and safeties at will because they had Starks and McAlister out there. Look at the NFC East's division champ the last few years, how many times could Jim Johnson blitz Dallas and everyone else into oblivion because of Taylor and Vincent one on one on the outside. Look at Miami, Taylor and Ogunleye were afforded double moves even triple moves against OL because Madison and Surtain threw the timing of a route off with press coverage. The Dolphins blitz alot too. The Bears vaunted 46 defense and the Eagles Gang green Defense had big time corner play as well.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree about getting pressure would cause the QB to make poor decisions and shorten the time a CB has to cover. However, when you have two cover corners you can blitz safeties, MLB's, OLB's or even Rowdy from time to time. Just look at the Ravens Super Bowl team. They brought OLB's and safeties at will because they had Starks and McAlister out there. Look at the NFC East's division champ the last few years, how many times could Jim Johnson blitz Dallas and everyone else into oblivion because of Taylor and Vincent one on one on the outside. Look at Miami, Taylor and Ogunleye were afforded double moves even triple moves against OL because Madison and Surtain threw the timing of a route off with press coverage. The Dolphins blitz alot too. The Bears vaunted 46 defense and the Eagles Gang green Defense had big time corner play as well.

The Eagles have never won the Super Bowl. That should tell you something. When Baltimore won, they had a dominating DLine. Siragusa, McCrary, Burnett and Sam Adams were formidable to say the least. That team didn't have to blitz to create pressure. The reason they blitzed was to create confusion but basically, they could still get pressure with just 4 guys. Blitzing is not the way to get pressure. If you blitz, you give something else up. Why do that if you don't have to? It starts up front. If you can't create pressure there, then your basing your defensive stratigy on a flawed foundation. Great teams don't live by the Blitz. They use it in certain situations but they control the line of scrimage with base defense through superior play and good technique.

[slick325]

The Eagles have never won the Super Bowl. That should tell you something. When Baltimore won, they had a dominating DLine. Siragusa, McCrary, Burnett and Sam Adams were formidable to say the least. That team didn't have to blitz to create pressure. The reason they blitzed was to create confusion but basically, they could still get pressure with just 4 guys. Blitzing is not the way to get pressure. If you blitz, you give something else up. Why do that if you don't have to? It starts up front. If you can't create pressure there, then your basing your defensive stratigy on a flawed foundation. Great teams don't live by the Blitz. They use it in certain situations but they control the line of scrimage with base defense through superior play and good technique.

Good post ABQ.

I wholeheartedly agree with you in reference to our needs on the DL and it all starting upfornt. I just feel that the way we were comprised we would make a bigger leap forward on D if we had a good corner next to TNew and add a RDE as the last piece next offseason. Our current DL can be average or slightly above average if Glover, Ellis and Wiley play to their potential. I don't feel the same about the secondary as it is currently made up.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Good post ABQ.

I wholeheartedly agree with you in reference to our needs on the DL and it all starting upfornt. I just feel that the way we were comprised we would make a bigger leap forward on D if we had a good corner next to TNew and add a RDE as the last piece next offseason. Our current DL can be average or slightly above average if Glover, Ellis and Wiley play to their potential. I don't feel the same about the secondary as it is currently made up.


See, to me, it's exactly opposite. I look at our DL and I see glaring weakness at Pass Rush DE and DT. I think we need a minimum of two strong DLs if were going to compete.

Conversly, at CB, I think we have a fine CB in Newman. I think FS is critical and a decent RCB could make us complete. Just seems to me that until we address the DL, were waisting great talent in the secondary. Those guys could be all world but they'll look like all NAIA conference unless we get them help up front. That's just my opinion.

[slick325]

See, to me, it's exactly opposite. I look at our DL and I see glaring weakness at Pass Rush DE and DT. I think we need a minimum of two strong DLs if were going to compete.

Conversly, at CB, I think we have a fine CB in Newman. I think FS is critical and a decent RCB could make us complete. Just seems to me that until we address the DL, were waisting great talent in the secondary. Those guys could be all world but they'll look like all NAIA conference unless we get them help up front. That's just my opinion.

I am already on record as next seasons Nors when it comes to getting John Abraham to Dallas. If we don't the Skins will. I also think we should draft a DT with a 1st next year. Then we will be much better with two holes in the secondary. If we use a pick to get Abraham and a pick on a DT then we only have a 2nd rounder to address the FS or RCB or OLB. Free agency may be thin in the corner department next season unless Baltimore and Oakland lose their minds and let McAlister and Woodson walk. So by not doing what should have been done this offseason, we may be right back here a year from now.