Jerametrius Butler Released by Rams... signed by Skins

[ThreeSportStar80]

Butler released by Rams


Updated: June 6, 2007, 10:49 AM ET

Comment (http://myespn.go.com/conversation/story?id=2894989)
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Six-year veteran Jerametrius Butler (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5593), a once-ascending cornerback whose career progress was sidetracked by a 2005 knee injury, has been released by the St. Louis Rams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl), making him a free agent and able to sign with any other team.

http://espn.starwave.com/i/nfl/profiles/players/65x90/5593.jpg Butler


Depending on the state of his health, Butler, 28, could draw interest from around the league. The Rams did attempt to trade him during this year's draft, but found no serious suitors at the time, in part because of Butler's contract.
His deal with the Rams had three years remaining, at base salaries of $2 million (2007), $2.5 million (2008) and $3 million (2009). Butler will have to battle another recently released cornerback, Kelly Herndon (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6197) of Seattle, for attention in the free agent market.
A fifth-round choice in the 2001 draft, Butler moved into the starting lineup in 2003 and had four interceptions that season. In 2004, he posted five pickoffs. So convinced were the Rams that Butler possessed big-time potential that they matched a four-year, $15 million restricted free agent offer sheet to which Washington had signed the cornerback after the '03 season.
Butler's career began to spiral, however, when he suffered a season-ending knee injury in the team's 2005 training camp. After Butler rehabilitated the surgically-repaired knee, he sustained a serious hamstring injury last summer in camp.
As a result of the injuries, the former Kansas State standout has appeared in only six games over the past two seasons. The Rams' acquisitions of other cornerbacks through free agency and the draft knocked him well down the depth chart.
This spring, Butler stayed away from all of St. Louis' offseason conditioning sessions, all but severing his relationship with the team.
In 64 games, Butler had 207 tackles, nine interceptions, 24 passes defensed, one forced fumble and four fumble recoveries.
Senior writer Len Pasquarelli covers the NFL for ESPN.com.




http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2894989

I think the Cowboys should look at this guy before injuries he was a good cover corner, he could be a nice veteran addition at CB.

[DCBoysfan]

I dont see where he would fit with Dallas

[ThreeSportStar80]

Being that Dallas is pretty thin relative to game experience after Newman, Henry, Glenn.... I think he could be a player worth looking at.

[Vintage]

Being that Dallas is pretty thin relative to game experience after Newman, Henry, Glenn.... I think he could be a player worth looking at.

Is he THAT much of an upgrade over our 4th CB, Reeves to justify the salary he is going to want?

Probably not.

Someone will probably sign him as a nickle back. If he was better than Glenn, then yeah, I'd do it and then cut Glenn.

[AtlCB]

Is he THAT much of an upgrade over our 4th CB, Reeves to justify the salary he is going to want?

Probably not.

Someone will probably sign him as a nickle back. If he was better than Glenn, then yeah, I'd do it and then cut Glenn.
I seriously doubt Butler would command much. The Rams couldn't trade him with a $2M salary.

[ThreeSportStar80]

When teams go four wide you can never have too many good cover corners...

[ThreeSportStar80]

I seriously doubt Butler would command much. The Rams couldn't trade him with a $2M salary.

Yep, I agree....

[carphalen5150]

Considering that he has injury concerns I doubt he fetches much more than the minimum with some incentives. I would be all for bringing him for a looksee.

[ThreeSportStar80]

Considering that he has injury concerns I doubt he fetches much more than the minimum with some incentives. I would be all for bringing him for a looksee.

Wow we actually agree on something :laugh2:. How's it going dude?

[carphalen5150]

Wow we actually agree on something :laugh2:. How's it going dude?
Going great...Romo is inaccurate, but other than that, all is well.:p:

[ThreeSportStar80]

Going great...Romo is inaccurate, but other than that, all is well.:p:


:lmao: Cool!

[Chocolate Lab]

Washington will sign him and we'll hear from Skins fans how great he is. They'll claim that the previously studly but now washed-up and overrated Shawn Springs can now be released, as he "doesn't want to be a Redskin" and isn't worth the money he wants anyway.

Seriously.

[Mr Cowboy]

How come everytime a player from another team is cut, there is a multi page thread whether we should sign him or not?

[ThreeSportStar80]

I believe CB is a need for Dallas and veteran competition is a good thing. He's been a good DB in the NFL prior to injury, it's only a suggestion no harm in reasonable ideas....

[Yeagermeister]

Sign him now. He can't be any worse than Henry.

Signed,
EDuncan


:D

[AbeBeta]

Being that Dallas is pretty thin relative to game experience after Newman, Henry, Glenn.... I think he could be a player worth looking at.

Reeves has 44 games of experience. Butler has 63 but has only played 6 in the past 2 years.

[ThreeSportStar80]

Reeves has 44 games of experience. Butler has 63 but has only played 6 in the past 2 years.

Okay, I understand the injury part of it but the guy posted 4 INT's followed by 5 INT's before injuries hampered him. Just a little reasonable debate, could have been his conditioning with them...

[carphalen5150]

Why would anyone not want to bring a player in that would be a low risk money wise and could be a guy worth a look? Anyone remember Marc Columbo?

[AtlCB]

How come everytime a player from another team is cut, there is a multi page thread whether we should sign him or not?
It's the offseason and there's not much else to talk about.

[AbeBeta]

Why would anyone not want to bring a player in that would be a low risk money wise and could be a guy worth a look? Anyone remember Marc Columbo?

Could it be because we've got a decent 4th CB and two 7th round picks who are gunning to take his spot?

[carphalen5150]

Could it be because we've got a decent 4th CB and two 7th round picks who are gunning to take his spot?
I see...competition is bad. If you are doing your job as a GM you leave no stone unturned...complacency gets you nowhere.

[CrazyCowboy]

We better just pass on this player.......

[WoodysGirl]

Could it be because we've got a decent 4th CB and two 7th round picks who are gunning to take his spot?
Or the fact there are 9 cornerbacks on the roster already. Doubt the 'boys go more than 5 at the spot. Three of which are sewn up with the final two spots to be divided among the rest.

I just don't know that a guy coming off injuries need to be brought in.

[carphalen5150]

Or the fact there are 9 cornerbacks on the roster already. Three of which are sewn up with the final two spots to be divided among the rest.
Again...he is a low risk high reward guy like Columbo was.

Butler, Jones, Thomas are camp fodder and we will be real lucky to hit on either Ball or Brown. So it doesn't hurt to take a look at the player.

[zeromaster]

Jerametrius is at least worth an honorable mention on an all-name team somewhere. :rolleyes:

[sago1]

If the Cowboys film study on him before his injury (and if he really healthy) shows he a good starting CB, you'd better believe I bring him in at least for a physical. Glenn's 35 (and look at end of season as if he lost a step) & Henry is 31 and has injury concerns last 2 season. Behind Newman, Henry & Glenn, we've got very little. Brown has all the tangibles to become a good starting CB but he needs time to develop & Ball might not even make the team. As for Reeves, he's not a starter and never will be, nor will Nate Jones. Cowboys showed exactly what they thought of both Reeves and Jones when they only tendered minimum for them. If either legit starting calibre, he would have received high tender just like Crayton.

[ThreeSportStar80]

Why would anyone not want to bring a player in that would be a low risk money wise and could be a guy worth a look? Anyone remember Marc Columbo?

Apparently people forget quick...:laugh2:

[AtlCB]

Or the fact there are 9 cornerbacks on the roster already. Doubt the 'boys go more than 5 at the spot. Three of which are sewn up with the final two spots to be divided among the rest.

I just don't know that a guy coming off injuries need to be brought in.

The guy is worth a look. Let him compete for one of the three final spots. If he isn't back to his previous form, cut him.

[ThreeSportStar80]

If the Cowboys film study on him before his injury (and if he really healthy) shows he a good starting CB, you'd better believe I bring him in at least for a physical. Glenn's 35 (and look at end of season as if he lost a step) & Henry is 31 and has injury concerns last 2 season. Behind Newman, Henry & Glenn, we've got very little. Brown has all the tangibles to become a good starting CB but he needs time to develop & Ball might not even make the team. As for Reeves, he's not a starter and never will be, nor will Nate Jones. Cowboys showed exactly what they thought of both Reeves and Jones when they only tendered minimum for them. If either legit starting calibre, he would have received high tender just like Crayton.

It makes sense to me, I remember the guy when healthy as a pretty good DB... That was all I was basically pointing out.

[BouncingCheese]

Hey guys, did anything develop on our front from that 1st rounder from St. Louis who was released?

Bring him in for a look; it can only help us.

[AbeBeta]

I see...competition is bad. If you are doing your job as a GM you leave no stone unturned...complacency gets you nowhere.

There are only so many guys you can bring in to play a position. Otherwise you have too many people and you can't get a good look at any of them because you start to cut into the amount of practice you can see any of them having.

Competition is only good if the guys actually have a chance to compete.

[ThreeSportStar80]

Nate Jones and Reeves aren't worth much apparently or they would have pushed Aaron Glenn out of the NFL by now...

[AbeBeta]

Nate Jones and Reeves aren't worth much apparently or they would have pushed Aaron Glenn out of the NFL by now...

Yawn.

[MichaelWinicki]

When teams go four wide you can never have too many good cover corners...

Do you remember who the third corner was behind Kevin Smith and Larry Brown?

Or the third corner behind Deion and Larry Brown?

Or the third corner behind Deion and Kevin Smith?

I don't either...

The fact is I believe our top 3 corners match-up with just about any 3 corners in the NFL in my opinion.

The fourth guy?

I'd like to see how this kid from Cal-Poly does.

I say feh on the kid from the Rams.

[WoodysGirl]

There are only so many guys you can bring in to play a position. Otherwise you have too many people and you can't get a good look at any of them because you start to cut into the amount of practice you can see any of them having.

Competition is only good if the guys actually have a chance to compete.
~looking for hammer smiley~

[ThreeSportStar80]

We shall see.... at 28 I would give him a look, that's just my opinion.

[burmafrd]

Couldn't hurt to give him a tryout- but I bet someone is willing to spend money on him and they will grab him. I really cannot remember anything about him- he was a 5th rd pick- so was he really all that? So the Rams gave him a reasonably good sized deal. Cannot say that they have impressed me all that much with their ability to judge defensive talent. So to me he probably is not all that- but it never hurts to take a look.

[speedkilz88]

Do you remember who the third corner was behind Kevin Smith and Larry Brown?

Or the third corner behind Deion and Larry Brown?

Or the third corner behind Deion and Kevin Smith?

I don't either...

The fact is I believe our top 3 corners match-up with just about any 3 corners in the NFL in my opinion.

The fourth guy?

I'd like to see how this kid from Cal-Poly does.

I say feh on the kid from the Rams.The days of Darren Woodson playing the slot is over. They were lucky when Kevin Smith went down that Deion Sanders was available.

[ThreeSportStar80]

The days of Darren Woodson playing the slot is over. They were lucky when Kevin Smith went down that Deion Sanders was available.

And the NFL has grown over the years offensively and defenses have to adjust. Players are bigger, faster and stronger in today's NFL.

[Hailmary]

If we didn't sign Hamlin, I'd say definitelty bring him in and move Reeves to FS.

He's still worth looking at tho. As few have already mentioned, I don't think it would take a whole lot to improve over Reeves or Jones.

[silverbear]

Washington will sign him and we'll hear from Skins fans how great he is.

Naw, the Skins are set at cornerback, with all-World Fred Smoot and Pro Bowler In The Making David Macklin signed... Carlos Rogers is in jeopardy of losing his starting job...

At least, that's what they say over at Extremeskins... :D

[silverbear]

As for Reeves, he's not a starter and never will be, nor will Nate Jones. Cowboys showed exactly what they thought of both Reeves and Jones when they only tendered minimum for them.

The drafting of Brown and Ball said a lot, too...

If Butler is fully healthy, he's considerably better than either Reeves or Jones... I'm not down on those two, they're not bad for bottom of the roster fill-ins, but Butler would be an upgrade over both...

The key phrase here being "if Butler is fully healthy"... that's a BIG if...

[soccerbud]

he situation reminds me of bryant westbrook

a solid and well regarded corner back during his prime but is also plagued by injuries

[JonJon]

I think the Cowboys should look at this guy before injuries he was a good cover corner, he could be a nice veteran addition at CB.


Nah, I would much rather draft Georgia CB Paul Oliver in the supplemental draft. At least he has potential to be a #1 CB someday.

[kTXe]

Why would anyone not want to bring a player in that would be a low risk money wise and could be a guy worth a look? Anyone remember Marc Columbo?
Colombo had the kind of talent and upside that made him a first round pick. Butler...not so much.

[dogunwo]

No room at the inn.

[dogunwo]

The guy is worth a look. Let him compete for one of the three final spots. If he isn't back to his previous form, cut him.
You have to commit money to him to even go that route first. Don't think the Cowboys would, or should go there.

[AsthmaField]

He just signed with Washington, according to ExtremeSkins. Good call whoever said that earlier in this thread.

http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200384


Yeah, they were set prior to this. :laugh2:

[apickmans]

not a surprise signing at all. Once I saw he was released I figured we would go after him. We tried to sign him a few years ago but the rams matched our offer.

[DallasEast]

not a surprise signing at all. Once I saw he was released I figured we would go after him. We tried to sign him a few years ago but the rams matched our offer.You mean, "We tried to sign him a few years ago before the injuries started to affect his level of play but the rams matched our offer.", right?

[AsthmaField]

not a surprise signing at all. Once I saw he was released I figured we would go after him. We tried to sign him a few years ago but the rams matched our offer.


A whole lot of posters at ES seem surprised and are questioning why sign him...

[AsthmaField]

You mean, "We tried to sign him a few years ago before the injuries started to affect his level of play but the rams matched our offer.", right?


And now because his play has diminished so the Rams flat out cut him. ;)

[AsthmaField]

The Redskin fans have been saying ever since the draft that the reason they haven't gotten any DL this offseason is because they didn't need any. :eek:

They said the reason they only had 19 sacks all last season is because the LB's and the DB's sucked... and now that they have shored up the DB's and LB's... they'll get a lot of sacks this season. :rolleyes:

Then in that ES thread, a Redskins fan writes:


Another DB? Man, are we going to get a lot of sacks or what?!?!?! http://extremeskins.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif


And another:


Geez guys I only stated this months ago. It's part of the new-look Williams defense. it's called a 3-8.

DL

LB LB

DB DB DB DB

DB DB DB DB



:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[BouncingCheese]

Let the Redskins have them; they are 5.5 million dollars under the cap and they haven't signed any draft players... This is the best they can afford to do.. Even if he plays well, it won't matter; THEY HAVE A TERRIBLE DEFENSIVE LINE with no depth! You can't cover forever!

[apickmans]

Hey i never said i liked the signing. I have not seen a lot of him to be honest (prob cuz of the injuries). Its not like hes gonna be starting for us and playing a lot of minutes. Hopefully he stays healthy.

Btw Im all for that new 3-8 Defense. GW is gonna revolutionize a whole new scheme i tell ya

[DallasEast]

Geez guys I only stated this months ago. It's part of the new-look Williams defense. it's called a 3-8.

DL

LB LB

DB DB DB DB

DB DB DB DB



:lmao2:


...and yet, so true. :(



:lmao2:

[superpunk]

He just signed with Washington, according to ExtremeSkins. Good call whoever said that earlier in this thread.

http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200384


Yeah, they were set prior to this. :laugh2:

lol....."I wish we'd have used that money on Ken Hamlin."

owned.

I like that 3-8.

Almost as much as I like the fact that the Redskins are idiots. Last year they stockpile RBs (who didn't play, altho draft picks were surrendered), this year it's defensive backs, who won't play - and their pressure issue is ignored.

Great plan.

[AsthmaField]

lol....."I wish we'd have used that money on Ken Hamlin."

owned.

I like that 3-8.

Almost as much as I like the fact that the Redskins are idiots. Last year they stockpile RBs (who didn't play, altho draft picks were surrendered), this year it's defensive backs, who won't play - and their pressure issue is ignored.

Great plan.


Yep. As a Cowboy fan, I'm really glad that they didn't sign Hamlin and then pickup someone at #6 in the draft like Jamaall Anderson for the DL. I think that would have been much better for the Redskins. Luckily, they didn't think so.

[Green28]

A whole lot of posters at ES seem surprised and are questioning why sign him...

Butler was signed to compete for the 4th corner spot.

The top 3 corners are set in Washington: Springs, Rogers, Smoot.

Spots 4 and 5 are up for competition: Macklin, Butler, Jimoh, Westbrook.

[AdamJT13]

The top 3 corners are set in Washington: Springs, Rogers, Smoot.

A.k.a., the gimp, the simp and the shrimp.

[Vintage]

Looks like this signing is a direct result of us playing the Patriots this season. I was a little worried before... but now that I know we have Jeremiahetrius Butler... well lets just say that Randy Moss, Donte Stallworth, and Tom Brady are going to have a long day.


Best. Post. Ever.

[kTXe]

A.k.a., the gimp, the simp and the shrimp.
:lmao:

[AsthmaField]

Best. Post. Ever.


:laugh2:

Yep, they're set now.

Art's over there telling everyone why this is such a great move. What's the over/under on how many posters he bans?

[Yeagermeister]

The 3-8 looks like what Joe Lee Dunn was trying to run at Memphis last year :laugh2:

[theebs]

Its like they traded mike rumph who is awful for butler who is average.

butler may be a good fit if he is only playing in nickel and dime situations, that is to say that springs is healthy or even on the team.

[silverbear]

Let the Redskins have them; they are 5.5 million dollars under the cap and they haven't signed any draft players... This is the best they can afford to do.. Even if he plays well, it won't matter; THEY HAVE A TERRIBLE DEFENSIVE LINE with no depth! You can't cover forever!

As I said earlier, I read elsewhere (I think it was in the Washington Post) that the Skins were very interested in re-signing Chris Cooley before he becomes a free agent next offseason... but as you noted, they had 5.5 million under the cap, and that was before signing any of their draft picks... of course, they don't HAVE many draft picks to sign, but Laron Landry by himself is gonna eat up a chunk of that 5.5 mil... so even if Butler signed for league minimum (and you have to think they dangled somewhat more than that in front of him to get him to sign so quickly), they have just eaten up a lot of the money they'd need to sweeten the pot sufficiently to get Cooley's name on a new deal...

Verrrrry interesting... won't it be fun if Butler turns out to be done, and the Skins wind up screwing up and waving bye-bye to Cooley next offseason?? :D

[Vintage]

Butler ate up 550,000 or something like that.

That puts them down to 5 million.

So yeah, that 500K is probably not going to be a difference maker in the Cooley extension.....

[silverbear]

Butler was signed to compete for the 4th corner spot.

The top 3 corners are set in Washington: Springs, Rogers, Smoot.

Springs is 32, and has missed 22 games over the last 6 seasons... he's had 2 ints and 15 passes defensed in his last 24 games (covering 2 seasons)...

Smoot has missed 5 games the last 2 years himself, and has been in and out of the starting lineup for a really bad Minnesota pass defense that finished 22nd 2 years ago, dead last last year... he has recorded 3 ints and all of 11 passes defensed in his last 25 games...

Rogers, well, let's just say that this kid was bit BAD by the "sophomore jinx" last year... his 79 tackles is more a testimony to how often he gave up completions and made the tackle than it was to his abilities defending the run...

If those are your top 3 corners (and they are), no wonder the Skins were so quick to jump on Butler-- even if he does have MAJOR injury issues (missed all of 05, played 2 games in 06)... even when he was considered "good", his numbers weren't all that-- he had 4 ints in 03, but only 5 passes defensed... he followed that up with 5 ints the following season, but he did have 14 passes defensed, which isn't bad... OTOH, the Rams as a team only had 6 ints, which strongly suggests that Butler got those picks because he was the one they were throwing on most often... this is borne out by the number of tackles he had those 2 seasons, 71 in 03 and 79 in 04... those are some awfully high tackle totals for a cornerback... of those 150 tackles, only 13 were assisted, suggesting he wasn't racking up tackles supporting the run (which is hardly surprising, given that he's 5-10, 185 pounds)... instead, it appears that he was giving up a lot of completions along with those 9 ints...

And again, the guy's played 2 games the last 2 seasons, it's pretty silly to assume that you're getting the same player who got all that PR in 03 and 04...

Spots 4 and 5 are up for competition: Macklin, Butler, Jimoh, Westbrook.

Macklin was in and out of the starting lineup, battling with the immortal Eric Green (LOL), for the league's 30th ranked pass defense... he had 1 int and 4 passes defensed in 14 games last season... now, he WAS a bit more effective the previous 2 years, and I guess so long as you don't expect him to be more than a third corner, he won't be too hateful...

Jimoh is a stiff, always has been... the only thing he'll offer the Skins is special teams help... in 63 games played, he's still looking for his first int, and he has but 5 passes defensed in that time... if you guys have to use him for any extended period of time as a cornerback, you're in DEEP doo-doo... the Boys have 2 reserve corners on their roster who are superior to him, and it wouldn't shock me if neither of them made the 53 man roster this year (Nate Jones and Jacques Reeves)...

As for Westbrook, permit me a second to LOL at you... this guy is an undrafted rookie free agent, who played DIVISION III college football, at that noted football powerhouse, Salisbury University... the only way this kid stands a chance of making the team is if he can impress as a kick returner... I guess you're all excited because his brother is a good NFL running back, and of course the little brothers of good NFL running backs ALWAYS turn into stud NFL defensive backs... :D

Even if Butler is fully recovered, and that's a BIG "if", cornerback is still a weakness on the Skins' roster...

[silverbear]

A.k.a., the gimp, the simp and the shrimp.

ROTFL... c'mon, Adam, you bring the facts, I bring the smack... if you start doing my job, I'll be useless around here... :D

That said, this particular round of smack was right witty... you have potential if you ever do decide to play the flame game...

[5Stars]

ROTFL... c'mon, Adam, you bring the facts, I bring the smack... if you start doing my job, I'll be useless around here... :D

That said, this particular round of smack was right witty... you have potential if you ever do decide to play the flame game...


(see if you can get Adam to join the DVS)?
;)

[Angus]

KFFL:

Redskins | Butler signed
Thu, 7 Jun 2007 12:43:18 -0700
Gary Fitzgerald, of Redskins.com, reports the Washington Redskins (http://www.kffl.com/team/37/nfl) have signed unrestricted free-agent CB Jerametrius Butler (http://www.kffl.com/player/1737/nfl) (Rams). Terms of the contract were not disclosed.

[silverbear]

Butler ate up 550,000 or something like that.

That puts them down to 5 million.

So yeah, that 500K is probably not going to be a difference maker in the Cooley extension.....

Naw, if that's all he signed for, it won't pinch much...

The flip side is, why did he sign for vet minimum (with the rule of 51, that would work out to around a 750k contract for this year, which I believe is the veteran minimum) so very quickly?? That doesn't say a lot for the way he viewed his own worth on the open market...

Where did you find that info, Vintage?? The only official reports I can find are on NFL.com and KFFL, and they're not giving out any contract numbers...

[silverbear]

(see if you can get Adam to join the DVS)?
;)

If he'd join up, I'd give up being the Lord High Muckety-Muck, LOL...

[Bob Sacamano]

lol....."I wish we'd have used that money on Ken Hamlin."

owned.

I like that 3-8.

Almost as much as I like the fact that the Redskins are idiots. Last year they stockpile RBs (who didn't play, altho draft picks were surrendered), this year it's defensive backs, who won't play - and their pressure issue is ignored.

Great plan.

well according to some of the skin faithful, DBs are more important

[Bob Sacamano]

Naw, if that's all he signed for, it won't pinch much...

The flip side is, why did he sign for vet minimum (with the rule of 51, that would work out to around a 750k contract for this year, which I believe is the veteran minimum) so very quickly?? That doesn't say a lot for the way he viewed his own worth on the open market...

Where did you find that info, Vintage?? The only official reports I can find are on NFL.com and KFFL, and they're not giving out any contract numbers...

well Ken Hamlin signing for 2.5 mil for 1 year isn't that much better

[silverbear]

well Ken Hamlin signing for 2.5 mil for 1 year isn't that much better

I found that one strange, too... maybe they both have the same (lousy) agent??

[Bob Sacamano]

I found that one strange, too... maybe they both have the same (lousy) agent??

I don't think the agent really comes into play, I just think the market for his services dried up, or noone was willing to commit to him long-term, if you can't get the long-term deal you want, it would be best to just take a 1 year, blow-up, and get it the next year, or attempt to, which is what I think Hamlin is doing now

[Green28]

Springs is 32, and has missed 22 games over the last 6 seasons... he's had 2 ints and 15 passes defensed in his last 24 games (covering 2 seasons)...

Smoot has missed 5 games the last 2 years himself, and has been in and out of the starting lineup for a really bad Minnesota pass defense that finished 22nd 2 years ago, dead last last year... he has recorded 3 ints and all of 11 passes defensed in his last 25 games...

Rogers, well, let's just say that this kid was bit BAD by the "sophomore jinx" last year... his 79 tackles is more a testimony to how often he gave up completions and made the tackle than it was to his abilities defending the run...

If those are your top 3 corners (and they are), no wonder the Skins were so quick to jump on Butler-- even if he does have MAJOR injury issues (missed all of 05, played 2 games in 06)... even when he was considered "good", his numbers weren't all that-- he had 4 ints in 03, but only 5 passes defensed... he followed that up with 5 ints the following season, but he did have 14 passes defensed, which isn't bad... OTOH, the Rams as a team only had 6 ints, which strongly suggests that Butler got those picks because he was the one they were throwing on most often... this is borne out by the number of tackles he had those 2 seasons, 71 in 03 and 79 in 04... those are some awfully high tackle totals for a cornerback... of those 150 tackles, only 13 were assisted, suggesting he wasn't racking up tackles supporting the run (which is hardly surprising, given that he's 5-10, 185 pounds)... instead, it appears that he was giving up a lot of completions along with those 9 ints...

And again, the guy's played 2 games the last 2 seasons, it's pretty silly to assume that you're getting the same player who got all that PR in 03 and 04...



Macklin was in and out of the starting lineup, battling with the immortal Eric Green (LOL), for the league's 30th ranked pass defense... he had 1 int and 4 passes defensed in 14 games last season... now, he WAS a bit more effective the previous 2 years, and I guess so long as you don't expect him to be more than a third corner, he won't be too hateful...

Jimoh is a stiff, always has been... the only thing he'll offer the Skins is special teams help... in 63 games played, he's still looking for his first int, and he has but 5 passes defensed in that time... if you guys have to use him for any extended period of time as a cornerback, you're in DEEP doo-doo... the Boys have 2 reserve corners on their roster who are superior to him, and it wouldn't shock me if neither of them made the 53 man roster this year (Nate Jones and Jacques Reeves)...

As for Westbrook, permit me a second to LOL at you... this guy is an undrafted rookie free agent, who played DIVISION III college football, at that noted football powerhouse, Salisbury University... the only way this kid stands a chance of making the team is if he can impress as a kick returner... I guess you're all excited because his brother is a good NFL running back, and of course the little brothers of good NFL running backs ALWAYS turn into stud NFL defensive backs... :D

Even if Butler is fully recovered, and that's a BIG "if", cornerback is still a weakness on the Skins' roster...

My god, man! I just answered the question, 'why did they sign Butler?' He was signed to compete for the 4th CB spot.

[Green28]

Releasing Todd Collins adds 1.5M in cap space, I believe.

[firehawk350]

Releasing Todd Collins adds 1.5M in cap space, I believe.

Yeah, word out of Europe is Bramlet is tearing it up right now so I think that's the direction the Skins will head with #3 QB.

But cmon now, Jones and Reeves are complete scrubs and there's no way to tell who's more of a scrub Jimoh or Jones. They both won't last a second against anything better then a #4 receiver. Anyways, I noticed how there were a few boys fans who were all about "let's go get him for the vet min" and now that Washington signed him, it's the worst move ever.

[tomson75]

Yeah, word out of Europe is Bramlet is tearing it up right now so I think that's the direction the Skins will head with #3 QB.

Congratulations. Now you just have to find a #1 QB and you'll be set.

But cmon now, Jones and Reeves are complete scrubs and there's no way to tell who's more of a scrub Jimoh or Jones. They both won't last a second against anything better then a #4 receiver. Anyways, I noticed how there were a few boys fans who were all about "let's go get him for the vet min" and now that Washington signed him, it's the worst move ever.

Jones likely won't find a spot on this roster this year.

Reeves is not, by most accounts, a "complete scrub" as you have so eloquently stated. Most of the coaching staff believe he is a very capable #3 DB and wouldn't be too terribly alarmed if he were thrust into a starting role due to injury. Which, would probably make him a starter on your pathetic club.

We don't need this guy, as we actually use draft picks for things like this.
Your team sucks. Your post sucks. Try again.

[firehawk350]

Congratulations. Now you just have to find a #1 QB and you'll be set.

Oh okay, I'm so glad you have so much to add.



Jones likely won't find a spot on this roster this year.

Reeves is not, by most accounts, a "complete scrub" as you have so eloquently stated. Most of the coaching staff believe he is a very capable #3 DB and wouldn't be too terribly alarmed if he were thrust into a starting role due to injury. Which, would probably make him a starter on your pathetic club.

We don't need this guy, as we actually use draft picks for things like this.
Your team sucks. Your post sucks. Try again.

Oh, so somehow Reeves, who has the glowing stat line of 7 passes defensed and no INTs will somehow break the line-up? Yeah, that's right, good ol' Ade Jimoh, who is the long shot to make our roster has 5. The stat line is not much different. Yet, your relying on Reeves to bring up the nickel spot when old as sin Glenn finally has a heart attack on the field? I don't think you have much room to talk, as your oh-so-wondrous club was 26th in pass defense and is just getting older and older (Henry will be 31 in November, Glenn will be 35 in July).
And apparently you DON'T use draft picks for things like this. Who did you draft to help out the secondary?

[tomson75]

Oh okay, I'm so glad you have so much to add.

Sorry, I'll try and start calling people derogatory names like "scrubs" and whatnot...so as that I can be of more value to this board. :rolleyes:


Oh, so somehow Reeves, who has the glowing stat line of 7 passes defensed and no INTs will somehow break the line-up? Yeah, that's right, good ol' Ade Jimoh, who is the long shot to make our roster has 5. The stat line is not much different. Yet, your relying on Reeves to bring up the nickel spot when old as sin Glenn finally has a heart attack on the field? I don't think you have much room to talk, as your oh-so-wondrous club was 26th in pass defense and is just getting older and older (Henry will be 31 in November, Glenn will be 35 in July).
And apparently you DON'T use draft picks for things like this. Who did you draft to help out the secondary?

His stat line is a direct reflection of his snaps taken...not many. He hasn't been able to beat out anyone in the top three. I never said he wasn't where he deserved to be...I simply meant to inform you that just because he is our #4 guy, that doesn't necassarily mean that he is a "scrub." I'm not relying on him to actually do anything, in fact, because we still have three guys ahead of him. However, in the case that someone is injured, many people feel that he has the talent and ability to play. We wouldn't have to jump into the free agent pool and overpay some has-been to come in and play five games for us (see: your team).

Furthermore, we actually did draft players to help our secondary...you may have missed it as most skins fan did due to the fact that they usually don't watch the draft because, well, there is really no need for you to do so. Or you may not have been capable of comprehending the relationship, but we took Anthony Spencer with our first pick. Having a pass rush enhances any secondary's ability to defend the pass...although this too, may be a foriegn concept to you as of late.

Oh, and we took two project CB's on day two FWIW.

[Bob Sacamano]

firehawk, are you a pain-freak or something? please, explain to me what makes you keep coming on here, opening your mouth?

[firehawk350]

Sorry, I'll try and start calling people derogatory names like "scrubs" and whatnot...so as that I can be of more value to this board. :rolleyes:
Oh, I didn't know you were so sensitive.





His stat line is a direct reflection of his snaps taken...not many. He hasn't been able to beat out anyone in the top three. I never said he wasn't where he deserved to be...I simply meant to inform you that just because he is our #4 guy, that doesn't necassarily mean that he is a "scrub." I'm not relying on him to actually do anything, in fact, becasue we still have three guys ahead of him. However, in the case that someone is injured, many people feel that he has the talent and ability to play. We wouldn't have to jump into the free agent pool and overpay some has-been to come in and play five games for us (see: your team).

Yeah, they both play the same position (Jimoh and Reeves), #4 corner, so they should have similiar stat lines. And they do. So, now that Jimoh is fighting for a spot, which the odds are against him getting, don't you think that a player with a similiar stat line, in the same position, on a similiarly ranked pass defense will somehow not only make our squad, but beat out the top players? Tell me how this logic applies.

You do have 3 guys ahead of him, we have, right now, about 5 or 6 guys ahead of Jimoh, and most of them are much younger then two of your guys. Glenn is getting old like I said and has lost a step big time and will only continue to regress and Henry is a big question mark to begin with.

Overpaying??? The vet min on a guy who may be good enough to be a #2-3 CB??? If he doesn't show he can play up to something resembling his old form, we can cut him, no skin off our back. Very low risk, high reward.

Furthermore, we actually did draft players to help our secondary...you may have missed it as most skins fan did due to the fact that they usually don't watch the draft because, well, there is really no need for you to do so, or may not have been capable of comprehending...but we took Anthony Spencer with our first pick. Having a pass rush enhances any secondary's ability to defend the pass...although this too, may be a foriegn concept to you as of late.

Oh, and we took two project CB's on day two FWIW.

By your logic, anybody on the defense helps the secondary then... Yeah, we picked up a DE in the first so increased pressure... We picked up a NT who should demand double teams, so the LBs can get to the QB quicker and increase the pressure... I bet, using your logic, getting Davis also helps your secondary. He'll help in the run game, so the defense will be on the sideline longer, so the linemen will be rested and can eat up more blocks, allowing the LBs free reign to the QB, thus increasing the pressure you put on the QB.

[Bob Sacamano]

You do have 3 guys ahead of him, we have, right now, about 5 or 6 guys ahead of Jimoh, and most of them are much younger then two of your guys. Glenn is getting old like I said and has lost a step big time and will only continue to regress and Henry is a big question mark to begin with.

you only have 1 above-average corner, and he's injury prone and doesn't want to play for you anymore

average pass-rushers, average secondary=exposed

By your logic, anybody on the defense helps the secondary then... Yeah, we picked up a DE in the first so increased pressure...

an undrafted FA, we picked up one of the consensus top pass-rushers in a deep class

We picked up a NT who should demand double teams, so the LBs can get to the QB quicker and increase the pressure...

very wishful thinking

I bet, using your logic, getting Davis also helps your secondary. He'll help in the run game, so the defense will be on the sideline longer, so the linemen will be rested and can eat up more blocks, allowing the LBs free reign to the QB, thus increasing the pressure you put on the QB.

:confused:


btw, your D is playing in a scheme that has been exposed, while we're installing a new scheme that has proven very successful at getting to the passer, in every stop

[DallasEast]

Yet, your relying on Reeves to bring up the nickel spot when old as sin Glenn finally has a heart attack on the field? I don't think you have much room to talk, as your oh-so-wondrous club was 26th in pass defense and is just getting older and older (Henry will be 31 in November, Glenn will be 35 in July).:confused:

It's not necessarily about age. Darrell Green was still a very effective primary cornerback when he retired at age 42. Aaron Glenn is still a very effective nickel and backup cornerback at age (almost) 35.

:confused:And apparently you DON'T use draft picks for things like this. Who did you draft to help out the secondary?I know you guys don't have a lot to look forward to on NFL Draft Weekend every year, but you do know that other teams draft players that their fans actually know what positions they were selected for... right..?

:confused:

[firehawk350]

you only have 1 average corner, and he's injury prone and doesn't want to play for you anymore

Oh dear lord... You are a moron if you think Springs, when healthy is merely "average". You have one good corner who doesn't intercept anything.



an undrafted FA, we picked up one of the consensus top pass-rushers in a deep class
I wasn't talking about us, I was saying that using that logic, any move at all helps the secondary. To not touch your defense is the only way, in Tomlin's mind, to not help the secondary.

btw, your D is playing in a scheme that has been exposed, while we're installing a new scheme that has proven very successful at getting to the passer, in every stop

Actually dude, we're installing a new scheme. I don't know if you know, but San Diego's scheme has been good at sacks, but has never been a great one in terms of production.

[firehawk350]

:confused:

It's not necessarily about age. Darrell Green was still a very effective primary cornerback when he retired at age 42. Aaron Glenn is still a very effective nickel and backup cornerback at age (almost) 35.

This is where we disagree. You sit there and say that everything is good in Dallas' secondary but your secondary didn't do so well. So where's the weak link?

[Bob Sacamano]

Oh dear lord... You are a moron if you think Springs, when healthy is merely "average". You have one good corner who doesn't intercept anything.

we actually have one of the best corners in the entire league, who shutdowns his side of the field

btw, I edited average out of fairness, don't want to completely homer it up like you do

I wasn't talking about us, I was saying that using that logic, any move at all helps the secondary. To not touch your defense is the only way, in Tomlin's mind, to not help the secondary.

no, any GOOD move towards the front 7 helps the secondary

Actually dude, we're installing a new scheme. I don't know if you know, but San Diego's scheme has been good at sacks, but has never been a great one in terms of production.

you're not installing a new scheme, you're just tinkering w/ it, it's still the same, weak scheme that relies on your LBs and defensive backs to bring the heat, you're just getting rid of all the cover-2

[Bob Sacamano]

This is where we disagree. You sit there and say that everything is good in Dallas' secondary but your secondary didn't do so well. So where's the weak link?

the pass-rush and FS, which we addressed w/ 2 quality players, not to mention going to a 1-gap scheme and getting rid of the safeties playing deep, cover-2

[DallasEast]

This is where we disagree. You sit there and say that everything is good in Dallas' secondary but your secondary didn't do so well. So where's the weak link?Did you jump at my reply without noticing who the poster was first? "You sit there and say..."

:rolleyes:

You put down Glenn because of his age. I simply provided you with perspective.

Saaaay, what am I thinking now? :rolleyes:

[Bob Sacamano]

Did you jump at my reply without noticing who the poster was first? "You sit there and say..."

:rolleyes:

You put down Glenn because of his age. I simply provided you with perspective.

Saaaay, what am I thinking now? :rolleyes:

I'm telling you, this kid is a masochists

[firehawk350]

we actually have one of the best corners in the entire league, who shutdowns his side of the field

btw, I edited average out of fairness, don't want to completely homer it up like you do

That's fine, but I have never said anything about our team being so great. So I don't know how I "homer it up".



no, any GOOD move towards the front 7 helps the secondary

So, we're going to go ahead and declare Spencer an automatic success??? We're not even sure he's going to supplant Ellis.

you're not installing a new scheme, you're just tinkering w/ it, it's still the same, weak scheme that relies on your LBs and defensive backs to bring the heat, you're just getting rid of all the cover-2
Yes, moving from the cover-2 to the cover-1 IS installing a new scheme. Your just merely shifting from a 1-gap to a 2-gap and changing the look of the blitzes. A completely new scheme would be going to a 4-6.

[tomson75]

Oh, I didn't know you were so sensitive.


Oh yes, please, take it easy on me...I'm so hurt. :confused: :rolleyes:


Yeah, they both play the same position (Jimoh and Reeves), #4 corner, so they should have similiar stat lines. And they do. So, now that Jimoh is fighting for a spot, which the odds are against him getting, don't you think that a player with a similiar stat line, in the same position, on a similiarly ranked pass defense will somehow not only make our squad, but beat out the top players? Tell me how this logic applies.

How dense are you? When did I even mention Jimoh? Oh wait....I didn't.:rolleyes: You're trying to apply your befuddling logic to something that doesn't even exist here. I was simply addressing your oh so creative labeling patterns when you dubbed Reeves as a "scrub."

You do have 3 guys ahead of him, we have, right now, about 5 or 6 guys ahead of Jimoh, and most of them are much younger then two of your guys.

If you want to keep comparing two players that you've never even seen play, than by all means, continue...I'll do nothing to stand in your way.

Glenn is getting old like I said and has lost a step big time and will only continue to regress and Henry is a big question mark to begin with.

Well then its a good thing that we have Reeves and our other project guys...duh. Henry is an outstanding corner when healthy...but again, what are you even talking about here?

Overpaying??? The vet min on a guy who may be good enough to be a #2-3 CB??? If he doesn't show he can play up to something resembling his old form, we can cut him, no skin off our back. Very low risk, high reward.

I know this is a difficult concept to grasp, but try and keep up. I didn't even acknowledge Jimoh. I was referring to the tendencies your inept FO has towards overpaying overhyped and overrated players to play as band-aids in innapropriate schemes.


By your logic, anybody on the defense helps the secondary then... Yeah, we picked up a DE in the first so increased pressure... We picked up a NT who should demand double teams, so the LBs can get to the QB quicker and increase the pressure... I bet, using your logic, getting Davis also helps your secondary. He'll help in the run game, so the defense will be on the sideline longer, so the linemen will be rested and can eat up more blocks, allowing the LBs free reign to the QB, thus increasing the pressure you put on the QB.

Wow, I'm impressed you could figure that out by yourself. :rolleyes:

Apparently you missed the part where we drafted two corners.

[firehawk350]

the pass-rush and FS, which we addressed w/ 2 quality players, not to mention going to a 1-gap scheme and getting rid of the safeties playing deep, cover-2

Your relying on a concussion Hamlin to shore up the position, the one where there has been wondering if Watkins can take his spot?

[Bob Sacamano]

So, we're going to go ahead and declare Spencer an automatic success??? We're not even sure he's going to supplant Ellis.

getting a very good pass-rushing prospect is a good move

it could fail, or succeed, but you have to get him in here 1st

Yes, moving from the cover-2 to the cover-1 IS installing a new scheme. Your just merely shifting from a 1-gap to a 2-gap and changing the look of the blitzes. A completely new scheme would be going to a 4-6.

you're a genius, both Wade and Bill run a 3-4, but they are 2, different animals, a 2-gap, 3-4 is a read-and-react D, a one-gap, 3-4 is not, so...different schemes!

you do know a cover-2 and cover-1 are coverage schemes, right?

[Bob Sacamano]

Your relying on a concussion Hamlin to shore up the position, the one where there has been wondering if Watkins can take his spot?

LOL a concussion from 2 years ago, that is your rebuttal?

[tomson75]

LOL a concussion from 2 years ago, that is your rebuttal?

I had a beer last night with dinner....i better not drive to work monday.

[DallasEast]

I'm telling you, this kid is a masochists
http://diy.despair.com/output/poster17165183.jpg

[firehawk350]

Oh yes, please, take it easy on me...I'm so hurt. :confused: :rolleyes:

Small words, got it!



How dense are you? When did I even mention Jimoh? Oh wait....I didn't.:rolleyes: You're trying to apply your befuddling logic to something that doesn't even exist here. I was simply addressing your oh so creative labeling patterns when you dubbed Reeves as a "scrub."

Okay dude, let's get this all together. You said that Reeves could start on the Skins. And I countered by saying it's debatable that he's even better then Jimoh, who is a long shot to make the Skins, forget starting. Are you all brought up to speed here?



If you want to keep comparing two players that you've never even seen play, than by all means, continue...I'll do nothing to stand in your way.
Which two? Reeves and Jimoh? I've seen them both play and neither is great.


If Well then its a good thing that we have Reeves and our other project guys...duh. Henry is an outstanding corner when healthy...but again, what are you even talking about here?
Again your relying on Reeves to play nickel and he hasn't proven to be anything other then a bottom dweller on the depth chart. Henry, in 05 was good. I'll give you that, then he got that knee injury and hasn't been the same since. He's old (for a football player) and he may just have lost a step all together because of it. He was, in 06, at best, serviceable.

If I know this is a difficult concept to grasp, but try and keep up. I didn't even acknowledge Jimoh. I was referring to the tendencies your inept FO has towards overpaying overhyped and overrated players as band-aids in innapropriate schemes.

How does this apply to Butler? If we were to bring up every mistake of either franchise, we'd be here all day. But try to stay on subject please.


If Wow, I'm impressed you could figure that out by yourself. :rolleyes:

Apparently you missed the part where we drafted two corners.

Two corners in the 7th round. That's going to help big time!

[Bob Sacamano]

Two corners in the 7th round. That's going to help big time!

this is your guys' problem, you're so hung up on corners that you forgot that your front 7 can't apply pressure

but whatever, your loss, so is it going to be 10 or 11 this year?

[firehawk350]

getting a very good pass-rushing prospect is a good move

it could fail, or succeed, but you have to get him in here 1st

Yeah, your right, so let's stop this, he's going to turn our secondary into something animalistic then. Especially since he may not even get much playing time.



you're a genius, both Wade and Bill run a 3-4, but they are 2, different animals, a 2-gap, 3-4 is a read-and-react D, a one-gap, 3-4 is not, so...different schemes!

you do know a cover-2 and cover-1 are coverage schemes, right?

Okay, let me explain this to you in easy to understand concepts. Williams' cover-2 was predicated on having two safeties who can cover well. His entire defense is based on that. He was supposed to shore up the seam with an athletic MLB (look at Brian Urlacher for a good example). He's no longer doing this anymore, so his entire scheme has changed because his MLB doesn't have to cover deep middle.
The 1-gap vs. 2-gap has little, if anything, to do with coverage. The only difference is the linemen shooting a gap, rather then reacting. Though, saying that Marcus Spears or Canty will be any better in the 1-gap is reaching a bit.

[firehawk350]

this is your guys' problem, you're so hung up on corners that you forgot that your front 7 can't apply pressure

but whatever, your loss, so is it going to be 10 or 11 this year?

Hmmmm, we'll see about that. We'll see.

[firehawk350]

LOL a concussion from 2 years ago, that is your rebuttal?

Okay, if he was so great, why did he not get signed until April I believe? There wasn't exactly teams lining up to see him after all.

[firehawk350]

Did you jump at my reply without noticing who the poster was first? "You sit there and say..."

:rolleyes:

You put down Glenn because of his age. I simply provided you with perspective.

Saaaay, what am I thinking now? :rolleyes:

You compared Glenn to one of the best corners of all time. And, to top it off, Green was definitely the exception to the rule there.

Again, where is the weak link at if all is well in Dallas' secondary?

[tomson75]

Small words, got it!

Awww, you're cute. So witty. :clap2:

Okay dude, let's get this all together. You said that Reeves could start on the Skins. And I countered by saying it's debatable that he's even better then Jimoh, who is a long shot to make the Skins, forget starting. Are you all brought up to speed here?

Wow, you are dense. I'm not even aware of who Jimoh is, and was not comparing the two players. If, however, Jimoh is as good as Reeves, then he will not be your #4 or #5 guy, but rather a #2 or #3, as Reeves would indeed be...this is of course simply based on your professional analysis...:rolleyes:


Which two? Reeves and Jimoh? I've seen them both play and neither is great.

I'm sure that your analytical prowess is unmatched by any on this board, but for ****s and giggles, give us your unmatched insight into the strengths and weaknesses of these two players of whom you've seen take....oh, i don't know, 20? 30? snaps...


Again your relying on Reeves to play nickel and he hasn't proven to be anything other then a bottom dweller on the depth chart. Henry, in 05 was good. I'll give you that, then he got that knee injury and hasn't been the same since. He's old (for a football player) and he may just have lost a step all together because of it. He was, in 06, at best, serviceable.

Well, you're not completely dense. This is all true, but completely off topic.

How does this apply to Butler? If we were to bring up every mistake of either franchise, we'd be here all day. But try to stay on subject please.

:confused:

Two corners in the 7th round. That's going to help big time!

Hmmm....you're right, why even bother with the draft, no one has ever amounted to nothin' past the second round. Let's just follow the Snyder method.

[Bob Sacamano]

Okay, let me explain this to you in easy to understand concepts. Williams' cover-2 was predicated on having two safeties who can cover well. His entire defense is based on that. He was supposed to shore up the seam with an athletic MLB (look at Brian Urlacher for a good example). He's no longer doing this anymore, so his entire scheme has changed because his MLB doesn't have to cover deep middle.
The 1-gap vs. 2-gap has little, if anything, to do with coverage. The only difference is the linemen shooting a gap, rather then reacting. Though, saying that Marcus Spears or Canty will be any better in the 1-gap is reaching a bit.

you don't get it, coverage is what the defense runs, so changing your coverages is not changing your defensive scheme, so you're still employing a scheme that has been proven faulty, one that relies on your LBs and DBs to make plays, and for your front 4 to contain their gaps, and then look to apply the pressure

I'm talking about the scheme change which will allow Dallas to more effectively pressure the passer, which in turn is the defensive backfield's greatest weapon, so no matter how good your secondary is, it's going to get exposed if it's not protected by a pass-rush

again, you're being hung up on CBs when you should be concentrating on improving your pass-rush

[Bob Sacamano]

Okay, if he was so great, why did he not get signed until April I believe? There wasn't exactly teams lining up to see him after all.

Hamlin isn't "great", but last year was better for him than All-Pro Sean Taylor

[DallasEast]

You compared Glenn to one of the best corners of all time. And, to top it off, Green was definitely the exception to the rule there.

Again, where is the weak link at if all is well in Dallas' secondary?Damn, you are dense. Let's look at what I previously stated again:

"It's not necessarily about age. Darrell Green was still a very effective primary cornerback when he retired at age 42. Aaron Glenn is still a very effective nickel and backup cornerback at age (almost) 35."

Do you not understand the concepts "primary", "nickel" & "backup"?

Good grief. :rolleyes:

[Bob Sacamano]

Damn, you are dense. Let's look at what I previously stated again:

"It's not necessarily about age. Darrell Green was still a very effective primary cornerback when he retired at age 42. Aaron Glenn is still a very effective nickel and backup cornerback at age (almost) 35."

Do you not understand the concepts "primary", "nickel" & "backup"?

Good grief. :rolleyes:

he saw "Darrell Green" and "Jacque Reeves" and flipped out is my guess

[silverbear]

My god, man! I just answered the question, 'why did they sign Butler?' He was signed to compete for the 4th CB spot.

Excuse me for picking apart the Skins' corners, but I stand behind what I said...

[silverbear]

But cmon now, Jones and Reeves are complete scrubs and there's no way to tell who's more of a scrub Jimoh or Jones.

It's true enough that both are scrubs, but the stats clearly show that Jones is the better scrub... Jones has played 27 fewer games in the NFL, but has only 7 fewer tackles than Jimoh... neither has an interception, but Nate at least has a sack, while Jimoh does not...

Anyways, I noticed how there were a few boys fans who were all about "let's go get him for the vet min" and now that Washington signed him, it's the worst move ever.

I was in the "let's go get him" category, but only if he proved to be healthy... now that he's a Skin, naturally I hope he's not... the fact that he signed for vet minimum a day after he was released suggests he knew there weren't gonna be a lot of bidders for his services, which in turn suggests he doesn't know if he can pass a team's physical or not; did the Skins have time to give him a physical before they signed him, or did they pay nearly 600k for the proverbial pig in a poke??

[superpunk]

You don't often catch tomson75 in the troll-thumping threads - but I must say, Good job. :D

[silverbear]

Yeah, word out of Europe is Bramlet is tearing it up right now so I think that's the direction the Skins will head with #3 QB.

"Tearing it up"?? Looks like somebody's been swallowing the propaganda whole... time for a few facts, homer:

Bramlet has been good, but hardly great, for Hamburg this year... he ranks second (in a six team league) in quarterback rating (at 98.4), second in total yards gained passing, but 4th in completion percentage (at a hair under 60 per cent)... as a team, Hamburg ranks 3rd in total offense, 5th in number of first downs recorded, 3rd in the number of first downs gained via the pass, 4th in the percentage of their total offense that has been gained via the pass, and tied for last in 3rd down conversion percentage...

And again, these numbers are put up in a six team, inferior league... the league's best quarterback this year is JT O'Sullivan, a five year veteran who has gotten into exactly one game in those five years...

If I were you, rather than pinning my hopes on Bramlet, I'd be praying that Jordan Palmer proves to be worth a roster spot... that kid may have a future in the NFL (but I'm biased on this one, I also went to UTEP)...

[silverbear]

Oh, so somehow Reeves, who has the glowing stat line of 7 passes defensed and no INTs will somehow break the line-up? Yeah, that's right, good ol' Ade Jimoh, who is the long shot to make our roster has 5.

Two fewer passes defensed, in nineteen more games... let me repeat that, in NINETEEN more games...

How very disingenuous of you to omit that relevant little factoid...

Yet, your relying on Reeves to bring up the nickel spot when old as sin Glenn finally has a heart attack on the field?

Not if Courtney Brown lives up to his hype...

I don't think you have much room to talk, as your oh-so-wondrous club was 26th in pass defense and is just getting older and older (Henry will be 31 in November, Glenn will be 35 in July).

And yet, our oh-so-wondrous top 3 corners have combined to play in 92 of 96 possible games over the last 2 seasons, while your top 3 have combined to play in just 76 of 92...

Being younger doesn't matter much if you can't get those younger players ON THE FIELD, wouldn't you say??

And apparently you DON'T use draft picks for things like this. Who did you draft to help out the secondary?

Patrick Watkins in 2006, Courtney Brown and Alan Ball in 2006...

[silverbear]

Oh dear lord... You are a moron if you think Springs, when healthy is merely "average". You have one good corner who doesn't intercept anything.

Problem is, he's 32 now, and hasn't played a full 16 game schedule since 2000... in his last 6 seasons, he's played in 74 of a possible 96 games...

He's also had 2 ints and 15 passes defensed in 24 games covering the last 2 seasons... yeah, I'd call that "average"-- at best...

As for our one good corner, it's hard to intercept too many passes when the other team is avoiding you...

Actually dude, we're installing a new scheme. I don't know if you know, but San Diego's scheme has been good at sacks, but has never been a great one in terms of production.

Perhaps that's because, like the Skins, the Chargers don't have much in the way of DBs... this theory is supported by the fact the Chargers ranked 7th against the run in 2006, led the league against the run in 2005, and ranked 3rd against the run in 2004...

So, you have a team that gets a lot of sacks, and is very good against the run, but their overall defensive ranking is consistently middle of the pack... the conclusion is obvious, the problem lies in their cover guys...

[silverbear]

This is where we disagree. You sit there and say that everything is good in Dallas' secondary but your secondary didn't do so well.

And to address that deficiency, we brought in arguably the best free agent FS on the market (thus addressing our biggest hole in the secondary), then brought in a head coach whose specialty is rushing the passer, then drafted a coupla cornerbacks late in the draft, one of whom was considered a steal at the point he was drafted (Courtney Brown)...

[silverbear]

Your relying on a concussion Hamlin

LOL... "concussion Hamlin" has had exactly one problem with a concussion, and it took a guy taking a street sign to his head to give him that one... in his first two seasons, he played all 16 games, as he did again last year...

But hey, you go ahead and HOPE for Ken to get another concussion, I reckon that's all a Skins fan has left if he dreams of his team being a contender...

the one where there has been wondering if Watkins can take his spot?

The Cowboys are high on Watkins because:

1) He's very tall, and he can jump like a freakin' kangaroo...

2) He's fast...

IOW, the Cowboys think he's pretty good, and feel that all he needs is a little time to get ready for prime time... if he winds up beating out Hamlin, which I rather doubt, it will be less an indication that Hamlin's not that good than it will an indication that Watkins is...

[silverbear]

http://diy.despair.com/output/poster17165183.jpg

Actually, a masochist is somebody who likes pain, as in, he likes being hurt... he gets sexual gratification from it...

[dallasfaniac]

I think it was a good move by the Redskins but I have reservations like Silverbear. Something is fishy about signing at vet minimum days after hitting the market when there is the possibility that he would be a hot commodity if a team experienced injury in camp.

The fact that an injury riddled player signing at vet minimum would excite a team like the Redskins really speaks volumes to the state of their franchise. They have much bigger issues along the defensive line and there are players to be had. As much as they hate picks, they might as well send a first day pick to Jacksonville for Bobby McCray. He could play linebacker and rush on passing downs.

What firehawk needs to realize is when we are talking about bringing in Butler, it is truly to fight for 4th-5th CB slot. Realistically, Butler would possibly be vying for 2nd-5th on the Redskins.

[silverbear]

Okay, let me explain this to you in easy to understand concepts. Williams' cover-2 was predicated on having two safeties who can cover well. His entire defense is based on that.

If that's true, why did the Skins EVER throw all that money at Adam Archuleta?? Everybody knew he's a linebacker playing safety...

This suggests your management sucks when it comes to evaluating personnel... :D

Though, saying that Marcus Spears or Canty will be any better in the 1-gap is reaching a bit.

Not when that's basically the way they were used in college, when they had success...

[silverbear]

Okay, if he was so great, why did he not get signed until April I believe?

Do get your facts straight (unless you really ARE a masochist, and enjoy being made to look like a fool), he signed with the Cowboys on March 23rd... that was all of 3 weeks after free agency started...

[Jarv]

[SIZE=5]
As a result of the injuries, [B]the former Kansas State standout has appeared in only six games over the past two seasons. The Rams' acquisitions of other cornerbacks through free agency and the draft knocked him well down the depth chart.


Wade: Hey Tnew, your from K-State. What do you think of this guy ?

Tnew: He sucks....

[zeromaster]

firehawk, are you a pain-freak or something? please, explain to me what makes you keep coming on here, opening your mouth?
Happy hour? :p:

[Vintage]

The link at ExtremeSkins, someone reported he had signed for around 550K.

If you were wondering where that number came from, silverbear.

[AsthmaField]

Okay, let me explain this to you in easy to understand concepts. Williams' cover-2 was predicated on having two safeties who can cover well.

And, I suppose that Gregg Williams has changed things up so much that he felt compelled to use the 6th pick in the draft to get a cover safety to go in his new scheme? He's really changing things up. [/sarcasm]

I mean, if he changed things that much, then why is this year's defense still predicated on having two safeties that can cover well?

From what I've been reading over at ExtremeSkins Williams has, in the past, used the LB's and DB's to get pressure on the passer. That is exactly why the Redskin fans have been saying that getting Laron Landry and London Fletcher-Baker will help the pass rush. :rolleyes:

Anyway, if that's what he's done in the past, and everyone in Redskin land seems to think that their pressure will again come from the LB's and DB's... then what part of the scheme is changed? That, along with still needing two safeties who can cover wouldn't support your view that the scheme is changing.

Another thing is that when you talk about defensive scheme, most people start with saying a 3-4 or 4-3. That is the defensive line players and linebackers that are used to determine scheme. Nowhere really do you see anyone say their scheme is determined by their secondary... it is determined by their front 7.

So, in saying that you are changing schemes, are you simply saying that you are going to have a lot less cover two in your defense? If so, that is certainly a change in coverage... but I doubt anyone would really say that you're changing your defensive scheme. Changing defensive philosophy? Yes, as far as coverages go. Changing scheme? I don't think so, because nothing really will be different with your front 7.

You can run cover 2 out of a 3-4 or a 4-3. You can play man coverage out of a 3-4 or a 4-3. You can run a cover 3 out of a 3-4 or a 4-3. However, those teams still stay with their same defensive scheme... they just switch up the coverages. That sounds like what Washington is doing, to me.

I do realize that changing the coverage might change some things that your front 7 does... but that certainly wouldn't be a scheme change, I don't think... and considering Washington has done nothing at DL this offseason, I'd say you better hope Williams continues to get pressure from his LB's and DB's.

And you say that is a scheme change and we are still running the same thing in Dallas? Please.

With Dallas, they are changing the entire way the front 7 plays. The defensive line responibilities will change completely, for the most part. Last year, all three DL were playing two gap. They had to hold up the blocker, read the play, and then flow to the ball. It was a much more man-on-man philosophy than anything else. Just beat the guy in front of you.

This year, the DL will be, for the most part, choosing a gap and shooting through it at the snap of the ball. There will be a whole lot more line stunts. They won't have to control the blocker at the snap, but will instead immediately shoot the gap looking for the ball. The entire DL will play completely differently than they did last year. Even the NT will play one gap in a lot of situations. They all will use their athletic ability/speed much more and their strength/size much less.

The LB's will have different responsibilities as well. The ILB's will take on a guard much less often and will drop in to coverage differently, as well as blitz much, much more. They will flow to the ball, IOW instead of taking on blockers most of the time.

The outside LB's will still rush the QB like they did last season, but they'll do it much more. You won't see Demarcus Ware in coverage nearly as much this year... he'll be going after the QB most of the time. Again, flow to the ball.

If a Wade Phillips defense is working well, I think you'll see some blockers with no one to block because the guy they thought would be there will be shooting through a gap somewhere else. In Parcells defense, you never saw a blocker not on a defender. There was no doubt about who would block who when Parcells defense was on the field. No surprises for the OL at all. That was the reason offenses liked playing against it. Phillips will move everyone around constantly.

All the LB's will run to the ball much more. That's why Wade Phillips has had them all lose about 10-15 pounds... because what they'll be doing is completely different that what they've been doing in the past.

Phillips will use a wide variety of zone blitzes as well, which Parcells/Zimmer hardly ever did. You'll see a whole lot more of DE's dropping back in a zone and an ILB coming after the QB... or a SS coming... or a FS coming.

In other words... while Dallas still is in a 3-4, the resposibilities will be completely different for all of the front 7 players. They will play a number of different coverages out of that at different times.

So, while Washington is still playing a 4-3 and Dallas is still playing a 3-4, I think you'd have to say the team that is changing it's scheme the most, would be the team that has it's entire front 7 playing differently. The team that is having it's players change body weight in an effort to better fit the new scheme. Or, to make it easy, just look at which players are saying things like, "This new scheme much better fits my skill set".

I know several different Cowboy players have said they like the way they're being used in this new scheme. Has any Washington players said anything like that? Honest question... I really don't know.

Anyway, to sum this up: The scheme usually depends on what the front 7 players do in order to tell what it is... i.e., 3-4 or 4-3. No matter what the DB's play (cover 2, man to man, etc.), the scheme is determined by where the LB's and DL line up and how they are used. So, to say that changing coverages is changing schemes, seems to me to be much less than truthful.

[1fisher]

The 3-8 looks like what Joe Lee Dunn was trying to run at Memphis last year :laugh2:


Hey, take it easy on Joe Lee "I wear no socks" Dunn............:laugh2:

[Yeagermeister]

Hey, take it easy on Joe Lee "I wear no socks" Dunn............:laugh2:

What a defensive genius he is. A two man DL with players that weigh 270 soaking wet vs a SEC oline that averaged 320lbs :eek:

Tommy canning him was the best thing to happen all season for them.

[1fisher]

What a defensive genius he is. A two man DL with players that weigh 270 soaking wet vs a SEC oline that averaged 320lbs :eek:

Tommy canning him was the best thing to happen all season for them.

That's the truth!:bow:

[Yeagermeister]

That's the truth!:bow:

That 3 yr bowl game run was nice while it lasted.

[BouncingCheese]

If that's true, why did the Skins EVER throw all that money at Adam Archuleta?? Everybody knew he's a linebacker playing safety...

This suggests your management sucks when it comes to evaluating personnel... :D



Not when that's basically the way they were used in college, when they had success...

Greg Williams is also an ego maniac; they had a servicable FS in Ryan Clark and they let him go, even though his asking price was VERY reasonable.. Williams thinks he can turn **** into gold, and in Archuleta's case, a dime LB into an all-world safety.

[1fisher]

That 3 yr bowl game run was nice while it lasted.


reckon we'll ever see another?

[silverbear]

The link at ExtremeSkins, someone reported he had signed for around 550K.

If you were wondering where that number came from, silverbear.

Thanks, bud, I wasn't questioning your veracity... the Washington Post has reported it's actually for 595k, pretty close to what ES had... so keeping in mind the Rule of 51 that Adam is always reminding us about, he's probably not costing much more than an extra 300k against the Skins' salary cap...

[silverbear]

From what I've been reading over at ExtremeSkins Williams has, in the past, used the LB's and DB's to get pressure on the passer. That is exactly why the Redskin fans have been saying that getting Laron Landry and London Fletcher-Baker will help the pass rush. :rolleyes:

Makes sense, LF-B has been SUCH a fierce pass rusher in his NFL career... I mean, the guy has averaged ove THREE sacks per 16 games played (barely) over his NFL career-- 144 games played, 27.5 sacks... his single best season was 2000, when he had 5.5 sacks...

As for Landry, he had all of 8 sacks in 52 games played at LSU, 2 in his last two seasons... yeah, that ol' sack total is gonna just go through the roof with those two deadly blitzers on board... it might go all the way up to maybe 25 sacks... ROTFLMAO...

[silverbear]

Greg Williams is also an ego maniac; they had a servicable FS in Ryan Clark and they let him go, even though his asking price was VERY reasonable.. Williams thinks he can turn **** into gold, and in Archuleta's case, a dime LB into an all-world safety.

Letting Clark go was bone-headed, but are we sure Williams was behind that decision?? Other than that, I agree that Williams, and Skins fans, have a vastly exaggerated opinion of how good he is...

[AsthmaField]

Makes sense, LF-B has been SUCH a fierce pass rusher in his NFL career... I mean, the guy has averaged ove THREE sacks per 16 games played (barely) over his NFL career-- 144 games played, 27.5 sacks... his single best season was 2000, when he had 5.5 sacks...

As for Landry, he had all of 8 sacks in 52 games played at LSU, 2 in his last two seasons... yeah, that ol' sack total is gonna just go through the roof with those two deadly blitzers on board... it might go all the way up to maybe 25 sacks... ROTFLMAO...

No, no, no Silverbear... you don't get it. London F-B will cover the TE, the back and the slot receiver by himself... thus freeing up Marcus Washington to Blitz the QB. That's how he'll help with the sacks. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, they do think that the influx of CB's and Fletcher will allow for more man coverage freeing up some LB's to blitz. That with a much better coverage SS like Landry, he won't need as much help in coverage and so will also help free up other players. Not to mention that the better overall coverage will make the QB hold the ball longer, thus creating more sack opportunities.

Having watched them some last year, I don't think it was the QB getting the ball out quickly that kept Washington's sack total below 20 for the season. IMO, it was a just awful DL that lacked in overall talent and instincts, that was simply unable to get to the QB. Throw in a couple of injuries on the DL and, at the end of the day, presto!... clean QB jerseys all around.

Their line is terrible and to read Art's tripe about how we don't know as much as the coaches and they clearly didn't think Washington needed DL help... so therefore, they didn't need DL help!

I suppose it never occurred to him that it could be that:

1. They didn't really have much money to spend in free agency on a DL and so no help came from that area.

2. Even if they did have more money, other teams had SO much cap space, that even then they couldn't have competed.

3. Even if they did have as much as everyone else... besides A. Thomas, there just wasn't much on the free agent market for the DL.

4. They tried like heck to trade back from that #6 spot in the first round but was unable to and so was stuck with that pick. Then, since they had the #6 pick, the only defender really worth that spot was Landry and, they didn't want to reach at 6 so they took the S.

5. Since they didn't have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounder this year, they really couldn't get a DL until the 5th round on... and by that time, a DL wouldn't be able to come in and help them anyway, so they just went best available athlete again.

That sequence of events eventually let to Washington coming out of this offseason with absolutely no help at DL... which is of course the one place they absolutely had to have help. :cool:

Oh no though... Art could see right through that and knew that Gibbs and Co. had decided they were loaded at DL. :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:

Now most posters on ExtremeSkins are vomiting back up the same thing as Art was saying. "We didn't need DL because we get our pressure from the DB's and LB's." Of course they do! Just like any good 4-3 of the past... you don't need DL to be a dominant defense.

The funny thing is... you didn't read one post on ES anywhere before the draft saying that they got their pressure in Washington from the DB's and LB's. Not one. Now, it's the common theme there and the company line as to why they didn't acquire any DL help. Before the draft, they all wanted DE or DT and talked about how much they could help the team and what would happen next year when they again had a DL that is worth a crap.

It's truly comical.

One Redskin fan postin on ES had this scenario that he had wanted to happen, and I'm really glad that it didn't fall this way. Something like trade back to 18 or so from #6, get an additional 2nd and 3rd round pick and then choose Spencer for DE. Then they could have gotten a solid DT or DB in the second and then a good DB or DT in the third. That would have been a brilliant move and helped that team out much more.

Lucky for us... Snyder and Gibbs are idiots when it comes to the draft. :laugh2:

[silverbear]

No, no, no Silverbear... you don't get it. London F-B will cover the TE, the back and the slot receiver by himself... thus freeing up Marcus Washington to Blitz the QB. That's how he'll help with the sacks.

Suddenly, it all becomes clear... what BRILLIANCE...

Seriously though, they do think that the influx of CB's and Fletcher will allow for more man coverage freeing up some LB's to blitz. That with a much better coverage SS like Landry, he won't need as much help in coverage and so will also help free up other players. Not to mention that the better overall coverage will make the QB hold the ball longer, thus creating more sack opportunities.

And while there is some element of truth to that, we need to remember that the Skins got all of 19 sacks last year... improving the coverage a little isn't gonna magically double that total... adding a dangerous pass rusher or two would have been a lot more effective, I think...

Their line is terrible and to read Art's tripe about how we don't know as much as the coaches and they clearly didn't think Washington needed DL help... so therefore, they didn't need DL help!

Art's a tool... he cares more about the access the Skins let him have than he does analyzing the team honestly... as a result, he's little better than a semi-official propagandist for the organization...

I am constantly amazed that extremeskins is so wildly popular among Skins fans, it is by far the worst website dedicated to the Skins out there... even if the Skins do throw them bones in the form of exclusive interviews and such, you still can't count on getting any decent football analysis from that board... those who try to provide such analysis generally find themselves banned pretty quick...

That sequence of events eventually let to Washington coming out of this offseason with absolutely no help at DL... which is of course the one place they absolutely had to have help. :cool:

Yup, Art woofs about how the Skins' brain trust (or is that brain rust?) is infallible, even when they fail to address the single most obvious, most glaring weakness on their roster...

Now most posters on ExtremeSkins are vomiting back up the same thing as Art was saying. "We didn't need DL because we get our pressure from the DB's and LB's." Of course they do! Just like any good 4-3 of the past... you don't need DL to be a dominant defense.

Here's an argument to lay on them-- for the last 4 years, the better their RUN defense has been, the better their sack totals have been:

2003-- 27th in run defense, 27th in sacks, with 27... lots of 27s there...

2004-- 2nd in run defense, 10th in sacks, with 40...

2005-- 13th in run defense, 21st in sacks, with 35...

2006-- 27th in run defense, 32nd in sacks, with 19...

If you think about it, this makes some sense; a good run defense causes opponents to throw on you more often, giving you more sack opportunities...

Now, what have the Skins done to improve that 27th ranked run defense this offseason?? Fletcher-Baker will help some, but the DL is still weak against the run, and will Rocky McIntosh, all 230 pounds of him, be an upgrade at LB?? If so, why didn't the Skins stick him in the lineup last season, when they couldn't stop anybody??

He can chase plays pretty well, but the scouting report on him coming out of college is that he's rather weak at the point of attack... and working from memory here, it seems to me that when the Skins got gashed by the running game, it was mostly between the tackles... in fact, most of the Skins' LBs last year were stronger at chasing down the outside runs than they were at stuffing plays up the middle...

I expect the Skins to be fairly easy to run against again this year, and if recent history is any indicator, that will again lead to rather anemic sack totals...

[skinsngibbs4life]

Yep. As a Cowboy fan, I'm really glad that they didn't sign Hamlin and then pickup someone at #6 in the draft like Jamaall Anderson for the DL. I think that would have been much better for the Redskins. Luckily, they didn't think so.

oh please, you just would have thought up some other excuse if the redskins did that.

[AsthmaField]

oh please, you just would have thought up some other excuse if the redskins did that.


All smack aside... I think that would have been a much, much better move.

Get Hamlin, who by all accounts didn't play bad at all last year. He was in a secondary that fell apart, but his individual play wasn't that bad at all. He's a huge hitter who provides a physical presence and yet is fast enough to cover. Plus, he's very smart and can make all the secondary calls like he did in college and at Seattle. He's exactly the type of calming influence that Taylor needs next to him. IMO, he'll do as well as Landry... at least for this coming season if not more.

Then, get a guy in Jamaall Anderson, who, while he may not have been quite the highest rated player at #6 (He went at #9 didn't he?), would have been exactly what that DL needed. A strongside DE to go opposite Andre Carter who is very good against the run and yet very good as a pass rusher as well. I was a little concerned about the Skins getting him.

That way, your SS hole is filled very well and your strongside DE hole is filled very well.

Are you trying to say that the Skins defense would be better with Landry at SS and Daniels at DE? Better than Hamlin at SS and Anderson at DE?

I don't know about other Cowboy fans... but I'm much, much happier seeing Landry/Daniels than I would be seeing Hamlin/Anderson in a Redskins uniform.

Of course the truly scary thing would have been if the Skins would have signed Hamlin and then traded back from #6 to around 20 and picked up something like a second and a third. That would likely have ended up with something like: Put Hamlin at SS and then draft Anthony Spencer to play DE. Then in the second round taken the best DT available and then maybe gone DB in the third. That would have been a great, great move for Washington, but luckily for us it didn't turn out that way.

I'm sure Washington got some offers for that #6 pick but they weren't good enough for Snyder/Gibbs. However, they needed DL help so badly and had no other picks that I'd rather have lost a little value in trading the 6th pick and gotten DL help and a second and third than I would have to sit pat and take the best safety available.

They were dead set against trading #6 for anything less than top value though. I'm just glad it fell the way it did for the Skins. It couldn't have been a better scenario for Cowboy fans, than the way it actually played out.

[Vintage]

oh please, you just would have thought up some other excuse if the redskins did that.

I was hoping you guys wouldn't draft Anderson or Okoye in the draft.

I was hoping you guys would take Landry or someone else.

I have no clue if Anderson or Okoye will turn out to be great players or not. I just didn't want you guys to get someone who could rush the passer. And I had been saying this to many of my friends back up on campus since well before the draft.

I bet Landry has a good career for you guys. But I'd rather see you guys with a great S than a great DE or great DT.



EDIT: Asthma, Jamaal Anderson went #8 to the Falcons. I know this because my friend is a Falcons fan and wanted Landry at 8. And when the Redskins pick came up, I was praying for Landry to be taken and not Anderson.....and he got pissed at me for rooting for Landry to be taken instead of Anderson. He wasn't disappointed with Anderson....he just really wanted Landry.

[AsthmaField]

EDIT: Asthma, Jamaal Anderson went #8 to the Falcons. I know this because my friend is a Falcons fan and wanted Landry at 8. And when the Redskins pick came up, I was praying for Landry to be taken and not Anderson.....and he got pissed at me for rooting for Landry to be taken instead of Anderson. He wasn't disappointed with Anderson....he just really wanted Landry.

Cool. Thanks man. I wasn't sure if Anderson went at 8 or 9. He might have been a tad of a reach at 6 for Washington, but I'd MUCH rather see them with Landry than with Anderson. Anderson will be a very good strongside DE, IMO and would have been just what the doctor ordered for Gregg Williams.

I was thrilled when Washington didn't trade, didn't take a DL and simply took a safety, instead.

They are likely to have a hole at LG too with Dockery leaving. Wade, who will take his spot, has been a journeyman at tackle so far in his career and the likelyhood of him playing anywhere near to Dockery's level is highly unlikely.

If Washington has a weak OL and a weak DL, they're in for a looooong season, IMO.

[Vintage]

Cool. Thanks man. I wasn't sure if Anderson went at 8 or 9. He might have been a tad of a reach at 6 for Washington, but I'd MUCH rather see them with Landry than with Anderson. Anderson will be a very good strongside DE, IMO and would have been just what the doctor ordered for Gregg Williams.

I was thrilled when Washington didn't trade, didn't take a DL and simply took a safety, instead.

They are likely to have a hole at LG too with Dockery leaving. Wade, who will take his spot, has been a journeyman at tackle so far in his career and the likelyhood of him playing anywhere near to Dockery's level is highly unlikely.

If Washington has a weak OL and a weak DL, they're in for a looooong season, IMO.


Same. The only trade I wanted to see them make was for Briggs. But then again, I didn't want to see Chicago get a chance at a blue chip prospect.

Though, in the end, that's exactly what they got with Olson at TE. Someone who should help that offense stretch the field and grow with Grossman (or another QB).

[AsthmaField]

Same. The only trade I wanted to see them make was for Briggs. But then again, I didn't want to see Chicago get a chance at a blue chip prospect.

Though, in the end, that's exactly what they got with Olson at TE. Someone who should help that offense stretch the field and grow with Grossman (or another QB).


I wanted to see them trade for Briggs too. He's a decent LB, but that's all he is, IMO. Plus, as you know, 4-3 OLB's simply don't make much of an impact. It is the DE's, DT's and CB's that are the big play guys in a 4-3.

I figured I'd rather see them with an OLB prospect like Briggs instead of a good young blue chip DL prospect like Okoye or Anderson.

Turns out, I didn't have to worry anyway... the dummies took a safety at 6. :)

That's even better IMO because he plays even further from the line of scrimmage than a LB does. Of course, I do think Landry will be a good one... but like I said, I'd rather them have a good, young safety than a good, young DL anyday.