ESPN: Vick indictment unlikely

[Angus]

Vick indictment seen unlikely in feds' dogfight probe
ESPN.com news services
Updated: July 7, 2007, 12:39 AM ET


SURRY, Va. -- Federal authorities have filed court documents outlining an alleged dogfighting operation at a property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, The Associated Press reported Friday.

Vick is not named in the documents.

Additionally, Vick is unlikely to be indicted in the dogfighting federal investigation, according to information gathered by the NFL and Atlanta Falcons, sources tell ESPN's Chris Mortensen. The authorities have told the Falcons and league that there has not been any evidence that can be tied to Vick with the alleged dogfighting ring, the sources said.

The law enforcement authorities have privately told league and team officials that at least three people are expected to be indicted but the identities of those individuals were unknown.

The documents filed in U.S. District Court in Richmond and obtained Friday by The Associated Press contain the address of the home that has been the center of the investigation. The filing comes on a day when federal agents searched Vick's property for a second time, using a backhoe to dig in an area about 10 feet wide by 20 feet wide.

A source close to the investigation, and with knowledge of much of the evidence, told ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli that the events of Friday were "very helpful in the overall and ongoing investigation into an alleged dogfighting ring at that property. ... Remember, this is an investigation into what has been considered an enterprise involving many people... From our standpoint, it never has focused on an individual and it still doesn't."

According to the documents, dog fights have been sponsored by "Bad Newz Kennels" at the property since at least 2002. For the events, participants and dogs traveled from South Carolina, North Carolina, Maryland, New York, Texas and other states.

Members of the venture also knowingly transported, delivered and received dogs for animal fighting, the documents state.

Fifty-four pit bulls were recovered from the property during searches in April, along with a "rape stand," used to hold dogs in place for mating; an electric treadmill modified for dogs; and a bloodied piece of carpeting, the documents said.

The property was used as the "main staging area for housing and training the pit bulls involved in the dog fighting venture," according to the filings.

The documents said the fights usually occurred late at night or in the early morning and would last several hours. The winning dog would win from "hundreds up to thousands of dollars," and participants and spectators also would place bets on the fight.

Before fights, the participating dogs of the same sex would be weighed and bathed, according to the filings. Opposing dogs would be washed to remove any poison or narcotic placed on the dog's coat that could affect the other dog's performance. Sometimes participants would not feed a dog before the fight to "make it more hungry for the other dog," the documents said.

Fights would end when one dog died or with the surrender of the losing dog, which was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution or some other method, according to the documents. The property has an above-ground swimming pool, and investigators were seen looking into the pool Friday.

During a June search of the property, investigators uncovered the graves of seven pit bulls that were killed by members of "Bad Newz Kennels" following sessions to test whether dogs would be good fighters, the documents said.

Members of "Bad Newz Kennels" also sponsored and exhibited fights in other parts of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Maryland, New Jersey and other states, the filings said.

Friday morning, a U.S. Department of Agriculture agent stationed at the gate on the southeastern Virginia property had no comment, ESPN's Kelly Naqi reported. The USDA is the federal agency with oversight over treatment of domestic animals and investigates dogfighting allegations.

The authorities arrived sometime after 6 a.m. ET. They finished their work at about 4:30 p.m. and declined to answer reporters' questions as they left.

Some of the investigators wore T-shirts reading: "Federal Agent USDA-OIG.''

An Associated Press reporter and photographer viewing the investigation from a helicopter could not clearly identify the evidence being collected.

State and federal investigators concentrated their search looking for dog carcasses allegedly buried somewhere behind the property, according to Naqi. At 1:30 p.m. ET, a backhoe pulled onto the property and began to maneuver by some black outhouses, located behind the main house, and headed further into the woods. Those black houses are where local investigators had found the items listed in the court documents, including the blood-stained carpeting and rape stand.

The property includes a metal gate at the entrance of the large white house and a fence around the perimeter, which obscured the work of investigators.

Corinne Geller, a spokesman for the Virginia State Police, said state authorities were working with federal investigators in an "assistance capacity."

On June 7, federal law enforcement officials descended on the property with a search warrant. More than a dozen vehicles went to the home early that day and investigators searched inside before turning their attention to the area where officials found dozens of dogs in late April and evidence that suggested the home was involved in a dogfighting operation.

Surry County officials had secured a search warrant in late May based on an informant's information to look for as many as 30 dog carcasses buried on the property. The warrant never was executed because Commonwealth's Attorney Gerald G. Poindexter said he had issues with the way it was worded.

The results of that search have remained sealed.

At the time, Poindexter expressed surprise at why the federal government was involved.

"What is foreign to me is the federal government getting into a dogfighting case," Poindexter said. "I know it's been done, but what's driving this? Is it this boy's celebrity? Would they have done this if it wasn't Michael Vick?"

A day later, "They launched a separate, independent federal investigation," Poindexter said of the government, which has had a representative involved in the local probe all along.

A search warrant affidavit said some of the dogs were in individual kennels and about 30 were tethered with "heavy logging-type chains" buried in the ground. The chains allowed the dogs to get close to each other, but not to have contact, one of myriad findings on the property that suggested a dogfighting operation.

Poindexter, on vacation in Louisiana, said by telephone he was unaware of Friday's search and was still pursuing what he called a parallel investigation. He said he assumed Surry County and federal officials eventually will share their evidence.

Vick initially said he had no idea the property might have been used in a criminal enterprise and blamed family members for taking advantage of his generosity. He also put the house up for sale and reportedly sold it quickly, although there is no record that the sale has closed. Vick has since declined to talk about the investigation.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2927560

[CrazyCowboy]

Good news for Vick

[jay cee]

Oh the humanity. How can we possibly survive if this guy does not go to jail.:mad:

[ThreeSportStar80]

:laugh2: Mike Vick will be playing this season....

[Cowboys22]

Just wait until those who get arrested start talking in order to get reduced sentences!

[5Stars]

:laugh2: Mike Vick will be playing this season....


Spreading herpes...too!! Yippiee!! Blowing blunts...having a great old time at the expense of his cousin...

Yeah, Ron Mexico HAS IT MADE IN THE SHADE!

:rolleyes:

[Jarv]

Just wait until those who get arrested start talking in order to get reduced sentences!

Hmmm...good point, of course they could be paid off. Do the time for me and I'll take care of you.

[ThreeSportStar80]

Spreading herpes...too!! Yippiee!! Blowing blunts...having a great old time at the expense of his cousin...

Yeah, Ron Mexico HAS IT MADE IN THE SHADE!

:rolleyes:

Where's the proof that he's got herpes? I wouldn't make blanket accusations without fact kiddo...

[peplaw06]

Where's the proof that he's got herpes? I wouldn't make blanket accusations without fact kiddo...You know he was sued for spreading herpes to a girl in 2003 right? And that she alleged that he used the alias Ron Mexico to get treatment for herpes?

[03EBZ06]

Does anyone know what happeded with that litigation? Did it ever go to civil trial or was it settled out of court?


A Georgia woman has filed a lawsuit against NFL star Michael Vick for negligence and battery. Sonya Elliot,26, claims that she had sex with Vick in 2003 and was infected with herpes simplex II.

According to Elliott, Vick admitted to knowing he had the disease and said that he didn't know how to tell her and that he didn't like talking about it. She also contends that he used the name "Ron Mexico" and other aliases when getting tested.

[Twyst]

You know he was sued for spreading herpes to a girl in 2003 right? And that she alleged that he used the alias Ron Mexico to get treatment for herpes?and settled the case out of court with a check and a big fat NDA

[peplaw06]

Does anyone know what happeded with that litigation? Did it ever go to civil trial or was it settled out of court?They settled it without going to court, but it was for an undisclosed amount.... hush money I'm sure.

[GimmeTheBall!]

So, you are saying there is a chance?

:laugh2:

Now, if only he could get unindicted for being a thug

:lmao2:

[5Stars]

Where's the proof that he's got herpes? I wouldn't make blanket accusations without fact kiddo...


:laugh2: My, oh, my! Now what, kiddo?

[big dog cowboy]

It was interesting to listen to "the huddle" on ESPN radio this afternoon. They were talking about this Vick situation and how the league would love to suspend Vick even if it were just for one game. They felt the league wanted to send a message to the rest of the league that any little involvement in any little situation could cause a suspension.

[zeromaster]

It was interesting to listen to "the huddle" on ESPN radio this afternoon. They were talking about this Vick situation and how the league would love to suspend Vick even if it were just for one game. They felt the league wanted to send a message to the rest of the league that any little involvement in any little situation could cause a suspension.
Much as I'd like to see the smugness knocked off of Ron Mexico's face, that's too slippery a slope to travel, legislating intent.

If MVick hasn't learned to clean up his act from this near-miss, he may just get sloppy enough to screw up later. At that point, they'll get their chance to make an example of him if the facts bear them out.

[jay cee]

Much as I'd like to see the smugness knocked off of Ron Mexico's face, that's too slippery a slope to travel, legislating intent.

If MVick hasn't learned to clean up his act from this near-miss, he may just get sloppy enough to screw up later. At that point, they'll get their chance to make an example of him if the facts bear them out.

I totally agree. If he can't learn his lesson from this one, there is no hope for him. He will screw up again.

I'm hoping he keeps it together from this point on, But I won't bet on him doing so.

[burmafrd]

What the FEDS could do would be to name Vick as an unindicted co-conspirator- that certainly has been done before. Wouldn't THAT open up a big can of worms!!!

[WoodysGirl]

What the FEDS could do would be to name Vick as an unindicted co-conspirator- that certainly has been done before. Wouldn't THAT open up a big can of worms!!!
unindicted co-conspirator? Doesn't seem like that's even possible.

Where has it been done before?

[peplaw06]

unindicted co-conspirator? Doesn't seem like that's even possible.

Where has it been done before?Basically an unindicted co-conspirator is someone who the prosecution thinks is involved in the case, but they don't pursue charges against them. It's really only relevant in that it gets in more evidence. The statements by the unindicted co-conspirator can sometimes get in as an exception to the hearsay rule. UBL was a UC in the Zaccarias Moussaoui indictment

It basically has no criminal implications for the UC. It's just so more evidence can come in against the accused. If this were to happen to Vick, it would have no effect on his criminal record.

That doesn't mean nothing would happen to him... who knows what the NFL would do?

[burmafrd]

But it would look VERY bad.

[burmafrd]

And since the NFL is always worried about bad publicity.....

[WoodysGirl]

Basically an unindicted co-conspirator is someone who the prosecution thinks is involved in the case, but they don't pursue charges against them. It's really only relevant in that it gets in more evidence. The statements by the unindicted co-conspirator can sometimes get in as an exception to the hearsay rule. UBL was a UC in the Zaccarias Moussaoui indictment

It basically has no criminal implications for the UC. It's just so more evidence can come in against the accused. If this were to happen to Vick, it would have no effect on his criminal record.

That doesn't mean nothing would happen to him... who knows what the NFL would do?
Ok, thanks.

In that case, the only ramifications for Vick would be yet another black eye for him and the league.

I've read that the league would like to suspend him, but if there are no charges, their hands are kinda tied.

[peplaw06]

Ok, thanks.

In that case, the only ramifications for Vick would be yet another black eye for him and the league.

I've read that the league would like to suspend him, but if there are no charges, their hands are kinda tied.or so we would think ;)

[burmafrd]

I could see Goodell fining Vick for bringing the League into public disrepute.
Or something like that. A suspension probably would not happen.

[deadrody]

I could see Goodell fining Vick for bringing the League into public disrepute.
Or something like that. A suspension probably would not happen.For doing.... WHAT, exactly ? Owning a property that someone else used to commit a crime.

The people that CONTINUE to be obsessed with this guy really need to get some form of life. The federal government opened it's own independent investigation in this case for the SOLE purpose of going after Vick and they found nothing.

The most pathetic part of this is considering the level of sophistication involved here. Dog fighting. These are common thugs, as you guys all seem giddy to point out. And yet they were able to cover their tracks so well that they cannot find a single shred of evidence to tie Mike Vick to dog fighting. Are you KIDDING me ?

Time to move on guys.

[adamknite]

For doing.... WHAT, exactly ? Owning a property that someone else used to commit a crime.

The people that CONTINUE to be obsessed with this guy really need to get some form of life. The federal government opened it's own independent investigation in this case for the SOLE purpose of going after Vick and they found nothing.

The most pathetic part of this is considering the level of sophistication involved here. Dog fighting. These are common thugs, as you guys all seem giddy to point out. And yet they were able to cover their tracks so well that they cannot find a single shred of evidence to tie Mike Vick to dog fighting. Are you KIDDING me ?

Time to move on guys.

Way to go. There wasn't an argument about it, but thanks to you there will probably be 12 pages of "Discussion" now. Congratulations on insulting everybody who's posted in the thread I hope it made your day better.

[sacase]

For doing.... WHAT, exactly ? Owning a property that someone else used to commit a crime.

The people that CONTINUE to be obsessed with this guy really need to get some form of life. The federal government opened it's own independent investigation in this case for the SOLE purpose of going after Vick and they found nothing.

The most pathetic part of this is considering the level of sophistication involved here. Dog fighting. These are common thugs, as you guys all seem giddy to point out. And yet they were able to cover their tracks so well that they cannot find a single shred of evidence to tie Mike Vick to dog fighting. Are you KIDDING me ?

Time to move on guys.

But that would ruin all of the conspiracy theories. They have to be obsessed over every "thug" in the NFL.

[Vintage]

For doing.... WHAT, exactly ? Owning a property that someone else used to commit a crime.

The people that CONTINUE to be obsessed with this guy really need to get some form of life. The federal government opened it's own independent investigation in this case for the SOLE purpose of going after Vick and they found nothing.

The most pathetic part of this is considering the level of sophistication involved here. Dog fighting. These are common thugs, as you guys all seem giddy to point out. And yet they were able to cover their tracks so well that they cannot find a single shred of evidence to tie Mike Vick to dog fighting. Are you KIDDING me ?

Time to move on guys.

They will have to move on.

[joseephuss]

For doing.... WHAT, exactly ? Owning a property that someone else used to commit a crime.

The people that CONTINUE to be obsessed with this guy really need to get some form of life. The federal government opened it's own independent investigation in this case for the SOLE purpose of going after Vick and they found nothing.

The most pathetic part of this is considering the level of sophistication involved here. Dog fighting. These are common thugs, as you guys all seem giddy to point out. And yet they were able to cover their tracks so well that they cannot find a single shred of evidence to tie Mike Vick to dog fighting. Are you KIDDING me ?

Time to move on guys.

Why do you think the sole purpose of the federal investigation was to go after Vick? That is quite an assumption on your part? How about it was just to find out who was involved and prosecute those people?

Dog fighting is not a sophisticated racket. These guys should easily be able to cover their tracks. Forget Michael Vick. It may be easy to prove dog fighting did occur, but to prove anyones involvement and the extent of that involvement is the difficult task.

Vick will not face any repercussions from the NFL. There is just nothing there.

[iceberg]

anyone remember when i said vick was a blatant liar about "never spending time on that property"? well, the *source* i had has threads dating back to 2002 when he said in talking to vicks possee they ADVERTISE vick is there with his 50 dogs, staying out of trouble, playing games... - so bare minimum he's a freaking liar.

this just in:
POSTED 1:06 p.m. EDT, July 9, 2007

VICK HANDLERS USED TO BRAG ABOUT "SECLUDED" PROPERTY

A source with knowledge of certain statements made in the past by members of Mike Vick's entourage tells us that Vick's handlers used to brag that the Falcons quarterback would never get in any trouble at bars or other places where NFL players find trouble (and/or vice-versa) because Vick spends most of his time in the offseason at a secluded property in rural Virginia where, among other things, he "mess[es] around with his 50 pit bulls."

Unless Vick owned another secluded property in rural Virginia, this information further contradicts Vick's "I never go there" claim, which was made on the heels of the disclosure in late April that more than 50 dogs had been removed from his Surry County home.

It also runs contrary to the media's inexplicable softening of Vick's position from "never" to "rarely."

While we're back on the topic, we'd forgotten that pictures on Vick's now-defunct K-9 Kennels web site showed dog cages that looked a lot like the row of pens behind the Surry County property. (Thanks to the reader who reminded us of that specific wrinkle.)

As we see it, then, there are three possible explanations:

1. Vick was operating a dog breeding and dog fighting operation out of the Surry County property, and claimed that he never went there as a knee-jerk reaction to the news that the place had been raided.

2. Vick was operating a dog breeding operation out of the Surry County property, and his family members and/or friends were secretly fighting the dogs without his knowledge.

3. Vick was operating a dog breeding operation out of some other location, and his family members and/or friends independently decided to breed dogs for the purpose of fighting them in Surry County, confident that Mike Vick would never show up unannounced and inspect the contents of the land, which included three black buildings that (if Vick built them) were installed for reasons completely unrelated to dog fighting and/or breeding.

Under the scientific principle established in the Fourteenth Century by Franciscan Friar William of Ockham, the simplest explanation is usually the most accurate one. In this specific case, the fact that a man who breeds pit bulls and who owns property in rural Virginia where pit bulls are being bred (and apparently more) knows that the pit bulls are being bred (and apparently more) makes much more sense than the notion that his family members were engaged in an elaborate ruse that could have blown up at any moment if Mike popped in for a visit.

Indeed, if Vick had no knowledge of or involvement in dog fighting and merely bred pit bulls because he loves them, the family members would have been risking his wrath if he were to find out that they had transformed his passion into a pastime that results in pain, mutilation, and (often) death.

So, to anyone out there who thinks we simply have it in for Vick, we ask you to set aside your own biases and apply common sense to the objective evidence.

------

that sounds SO familiar....

i really don't care what the court finds for vick and you can call that as "wrong" as you want to. guilty people walk free all the time (hi oj!) so it's no surprise it may happen again.

but if "innocent" why lie?

[AbeBeta]

Interesting stuff from PFT on the complaint -- the most interesting point they make is that nobody's names are mentioned in the complaint -- it isn't that Vick wasn't mention. The complaint is against the kennel. So it doesn't seem at all that Vick is even remotely out fo the woods.



SELECTED PASSAGES FROM THE VICK COMPLAINT

A copy of the federal complaint regarding the dog-fighting investigation at the Surry County, Virginia property owned by Falcons quarterback Mike Vick has been available for a few days, yet we haven't seen anyone weave many of the key passages from it into media reports regarding the issue.

We mention this because we received an e-mail from a member of the national media this morning who described some of the details as "frightening."

So here are some selected quotes from the document, which was filed by the feds in an effort to secure possession of the 54 dogs seized from the Vick property in April 2007.

Paragraph 9 of the document confirms that "[m]any of the [54] pit bulldogs recovered or observed in the search had scars and injuries consistent with injuries sustained in dog fighting." (Previously, there was a dispute -- fueled in part by Surry County prosecutor Gerald Poindexter -- regarding whether the dogs taken from the land were scarred or injured.)

Paragraph 10 lists the additional items recovered and observed in the initial search in April: "a blood-stained fighting area; animal training and breeding equipment, including a 'rape stand,' a 'break' or 'parting' stick, treadmills and 'slat mills;' assorted paperwork documenting involvement in animal fighting ventures; and performance enhancing pharmaceuticals commonly used to increase fighting potential in dogs trained for fighting, as well as to keep injured dogs fighting longer." We highlighted the reference to paperwork documenting involvement in animal fighting ventures because we hadn't previously seen this aspect of the seized property reported anywhere.

Paragraph 11 says that members and associates of "Bad Newz Kennels," which was operated out of the Vick property, sponsored and exhibited pit bull fights at the Vick property and in Blackstone, Virginia, in North Carolina, South Carolina, Maryland, New Jersey, and in other states.

Paragraph 12 says that dog fights have been sponsored on Vick's property since 2002, with dogs from South Carolina, North Carolina, Maryland, New York, Texas, and other states engaged in the "competition."

Paragraph 13 contains some of the details regarding the pre-fight preparations. "The two dogs participating in a particular fight had to be the same weight and sex. Before a fight would start, the participants would weigh and bathe the dogs. The fighting weight would be established before the fight, requiring the opponent dogs to measure within approximately one-half pound of the set weight. . . . The opposing dogs were washed before a fight to remove any poison or narcotic placed on the dog's coat -- if the opposing dog would bite the 'tainted' dog that was coated with poison or narcotic, this would affect the opposing dog's performance during the fight. The participants would sometimes stop feeding the fighting dog before the scheduled fights, in order to make it hungry for the other dog."

Paragraph 14 explains that the fights at the Vick property "generally occurred late at night or early in the morning, sometimes involving 2-3 separate matches, and would last several hours." The persons in attendance were "[g]enerally" limited to persons accompanying Bad Newz Kennels members and persons accompanying the members of opposing kennels. "For a particular dog fight, the opponents would establish a purse for the winning side, ranging from 100's up to 1,000's of dollars. Participants and spectators would also place side-bets on the fight, dependant on the ultimate outcome or certain events occurring during the course of the dog fight."

Paragraph 14 also contains some grisly details regarding the aftermath of the eventws. "The dog fight would last to the end, which would generally involve the death or surrender of the losing dog. At the end of the fight, the losing dog was sometimes put to death by drowning, strangulation, hanging, gun shot, electrocution, or some other method. The members of 'Bad Newz Kennels' would sometimes 'test' the pit bulls in their inventory, determining if a particular dog was 'game,' meaning that it would be a good fighter. Sometimes, the dogs deemed not to be good fighters would be put to death."

Though the media was quick to point out that Mike Vick's name appears nowhere in the complaint, no names are mentioned. Instead, the complaint refers in several places to the "members of 'Bad Newz Kennels,'" without identifying any of said members.

But we saw at least one hint in the complaint that suggests to us a belief by the feds that Vick is one of the members of Bad Newz Kennels. In paragraph 13, the complaint refers to the charging of admission fees for persons attending the fights. "If an admission fee was charged for a particular event," the complaint states, "the proceeds were generally used to supplement the funding of the 'Bad Newz Kennels' kennel operation."

The key word in that passage is "supplement." As we've previously noted, someone had to be paying for the care and feeding of 50-plus dogs. If, as has been reported elsewhere, none of the persons living in Vick's house were employed, where was the primary funding of the operation coming from?

[5Stars]

Vick got caught with his hand in the cookie jar...now we will see how he gets away with the Oreo...!

:cool:

[zeromaster]

For doing.... WHAT, exactly ? Owning a property that someone else used to commit a crime.

The people that CONTINUE to be obsessed with this guy really need to get some form of life. The federal government opened it's own independent investigation in this case for the SOLE purpose of going after Vick and they found nothing.

The most pathetic part of this is considering the level of sophistication involved here. Dog fighting. These are common thugs, as you guys all seem giddy to point out. And yet they were able to cover their tracks so well that they cannot find a single shred of evidence to tie Mike Vick to dog fighting. Are you KIDDING me ?

Time to move on guys.
In some circumstances, an absentee owner can bear a degree of responsibility for what goes on. Whether that comes into play here, due to state/federal laws, only time will tell. Did anyone mention before whether this property had been put up for sale prior to the on-site carnival of state and federal fuzz? If so, the timing of that is also interesting.

As for getting a life, the people so opposed to the discussion should also remember the venue: a message board. You're free to read or not read as you wish. But try stopping short of legislating behavior for the rest of the group, ok? Yeah it may be boring, but so is the offseason.:D

[fortdick]

Last May, a law went into effect that made it a felony under Fed Law to fight dogs. Vick'd case could be the first real test of the new law. The Feds might wish to make a statement here.

If the organization is as large as they suspect, don't be surprised if the go RICO on this one. It is usually a gang controlled business and if they can make a tie, the can call it racketeering.

THis could get a lot larger.

[Kilyin]

For doing.... WHAT, exactly ? Owning a property that someone else used to commit a crime.

The people that CONTINUE to be obsessed with this guy really need to get some form of life. The federal government opened it's own independent investigation in this case for the SOLE purpose of going after Vick and they found nothing.

The most pathetic part of this is considering the level of sophistication involved here. Dog fighting. These are common thugs, as you guys all seem giddy to point out. And yet they were able to cover their tracks so well that they cannot find a single shred of evidence to tie Mike Vick to dog fighting. Are you KIDDING me ?

Time to move on guys.

Seriously, are you retarded?

This whole investigation has been amateur at best. The 'investigation' literally took WEEKS to ever take place, and by then the 'well secured' crime scene had been 'broken into' and likely any really incriminating evidence removed.

But I guess these little inconvenient facts slipped your mind.

[AbeBeta]

Seriously, are you retarded?

This whole investigation has been amateur at best. The 'investigation' literally took WEEKS to ever take place, and by then the 'well secured' crime scene had been 'broken into' and likely any really incriminating evidence removed.

But I guess these little inconvenient facts slipped your mind.

Gotta agree here.

If there is anything Kilyin knows, it is retarded (but the preferred term is mentally challenged).

[5Stars]

Gotta agree here.

If there is anything Kilyin knows, it is retarded (but the preferred term is mentally challenged).


No...the preferred word is STUPID! Leave the handicapped out of this...

[Big Dakota]

No...the preferred word is STUPID! Leave the handicapped out of this...


I love that line from Eight Men Out. Lot's of Hap Felsh's running around here ;)

[5Stars]

I love that line from Eight Men Out. Lot's of Hap Felsh's running around here ;)


:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[DallasInDC]

ATLANTA -- For beleaguered Michael Vick, the events Friday represented more of a temporary reprieve -- with the emphasis definitely on temporary at this point -- than they did total redemption.



Although federal agents dug shallow troughs for hours Friday on the property Vick owns in Surry County, Va., combing for evidence of a dog fighting ring alleged to have operated there, the efforts weren't enough to shovel dirt on Vick's football livelihood or heap further suspicion upon his reputation. In a southeast Virginia backyard that could well have been a graveyard for Vick's career on the field and a requiem for his marketability off it, there were plenty of divots.



But none of the holes has grown into an abyss.



Which isn't to say that the quixotic quarterback is close to emerging from the deep public relations ravine that he has dug for himself this offseason.



As ESPN's Chris Mortensen and Kelly Naqi have reported, we now know there are indications Vick will not be named among the three people expected to be indicted in the federal probe. And courtesy of the sources ESPN.com has nurtured during the course of the long Vick soap opera, and who weighed in through much of the day and night Friday, it's also clear he is not out of the woods.



There were two words, ongoing investigation, employed so many times Friday by sources that they became a mantra, which should still reduce Vick to chills. If his angst is a little less pronounced now, Vick had better still keep his head on a swivel.



"Just because you've got a lot of links (lying) around doesn't mean you can call in a chain," one source said late Friday night. "But it also doesn't mean you abandon the notion of seeing if those links might someday become a chain."



Translation: The events of Friday aside, Vick remains on the radar screen of the Feds. Federal investigators tend to be incredibly thorough and dogged in their pursuit of the truth. And while the trail might be cold for now, if a scent of Michael Vick remains in the air, well, a final resolution of this case as it involves him is very much up in the air as well.



It should be noted that the source of the quote was one of the people who in late May told ESPN.com they felt there was sufficient evidence to bring a bill of indictment against Vick, but who questioned whether the quarterback could be successfully prosecuted.



Noted the same source earlier Friday afternoon: "Remember, this is an investigation into what has been considered an enterprise involving many people ... From our standpoint, it never has focused on one individual and it still doesn't."



From the standpoint of the public, however, Vick is this story.



Beyond the well-intentioned folks at PETA or the American Humane Society, how many people would have lent even a nanosecond's attention to the investigation in Surry County were a headliner's name not attached to it?



During the past three months of suspicion, rumor, innuendo and even the occasional snippet of fact, this city and its football franchise have wearily suffered through a phenomenon that has come to be called Vick Fatigue. But it is has done so with unwaveringly insufferable curiosity. Atlanta is known as "The City Too Busy to Hate." Yet the attention of the community, even those who don't hold Falcons season tickets, hasn't been so diverted in the past three months that it couldn't keep at least one eye trained in the direction of No. 7.



Arguably the most polarizing sports personality in the city's history,Vick has been an even more divisive presence this offseason, the rift often along racial lines. There are myriad fractionalized camps here. The "see-I-told-you-so legion" of critics who already have deemed Vick culpable in the court of public opinion. The cautious "let's-wait-until-all-the-facts-are-in" supporters. And the conspiracy theorists who believe there is a Mark Fuhrman element at work, even if the evidence they suggest might have been planted on his property hasn't yet born enough fruit to indict him.



The events Friday, in which it is believed that more dog carcasses were unearthed, neither merged nor eliminated any of those factions. Nor does the fact Vick will not be indicted, according to Chris Mortensen's sources, mean the Falcons' star is beyond suspicion. There are a lot of reasons that federal authorities boast a conviction rate of between 95-96 percent. The most significant one, though, is that the Feds rarely indict unless they know that there is sufficient evidence to convict.



For now, at least, they apparently haven't been able to turn the evidentiary links into a chain. And maybe they never will. Still, in late May, a confidential informant described Vick, in an compelling interview with Naqi, as "a heavyweight" in dog fighting circles. And it takes a haymaker, not a split decision, to bring down most heavyweights.



Whether such a knockout punch exists, whether law enforcement authorities can develop an uppercut as the investigation presses forward, remains to be seen.



Even after federal authorities took over the dog fighting investigation, there was always a question of how the tawdriness might affect Vick's status for the 2007 season. And there was a sense that, because of the timing involved, and the potential dilatory maneuvers that any savvy attorney would make to forestall court action, he probably could not be sanctioned during the upcoming season. That sense was enhanced Friday night.



And unless there is an unknown demerit on his NFL resume, Vick might well be beyond the reach of even the league's new and harsher personal conduct policy. The policy enacted by commissioner Roger Goodell is aimed at addressing repeat offenders, recidivists for whom the privilege of playing in the league isn't enough to preclude them from locating trouble, and Vick, despite some offensive behavior and undeniably bad judgments, doesn't have a known first offense.



So for now, Vick remains the presumptive Atlanta starter, as he has for the entire offseason. Minus, perhaps, some of the intense glare from the searing spotlight that always seems to accompany him.



As federal agents Friday paraded through the yard of Vick's property, Falcons owner Arthur Blank and general manager Rich McKay were on an African safari, and first-year head coach Bobby Petrino was in Montana for his parents' anniversary. Even from those far-flung venues, one could almost discern a collective sigh of relief.



But for an athlete whose calling card is derring-do play, being able to breathe a little easier should not be taken for granted.



Because even Friday's respite, as welcomed as it must have been for Vick and the Falcons' organization, isn't an excuse yet to exhale.


Len Pasquarelli is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2928795

[fortdick]

ATLANTA


Noted the same source earlier Friday afternoon: "Remember, this is an investigation into what has been considered an enterprise involving many people ... From our standpoint, it never has focused on one individual and it still doesn't."




The use of the word "enterprise" is critical. That word is straight out of the RICO Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act
RICO offenses and definitions

Racketeering activity means:

Any act or threat involving gambling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling), murder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder), kidnapping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping), arson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arson), robbery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbery), bribery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribery), extortion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion), dealing in obscene matter, or dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Substances_Act)), which is chargeable under State law and punishable by imprisonment for more than one year;
Any act which is indictable under a wide variety of specific provisions of title 18 of the United States Code relating to bribery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribery), counterfeiting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeiting), theft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft), embezzlement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embezzlement), fraud (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud), obscene matter, obstruction of justice, slavery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery), racketeering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeering), gambling, money laundering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering), commission of murder-for-hire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder-for-hire), etc.
Any act which is indictable under title 29, United States Code, section 186 (dealing with restrictions on payments and loans to labor organizations) or section 501 (c) (relating to embezzlement from union funds),
Any offense involving fraud connected with a case under title 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_in_the_United_States) (except a case under section 157 of this title), fraud in the sale of securities, or the felonious manufacture, importation, receiving, concealment, buying, selling, or otherwise dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act), punishable under any law of the United States,
Any act which is indictable under the Currency and Foreign Transactions Reporting Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_and_Foreign_Transactions_Reporting_Act),
Any act which is indictable under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 274 (relating to bringing in and harboring certain aliens), section 277 (relating to aiding or assisting certain aliens to enter the United States), or section 278 (relating to importation of alien for immoral purpose) if the act indictable under such section of such Act was committed for the purpose of financial gain, or
Any act that is indictable under any provision listed in section 2332b (g)(5)(B);Pattern of racketeering activity requires at least two acts of racketeering activity, one of which occurred after the effective date of this chapter and the last of which occurred within ten years (excluding any period of imprisonment) after the commission of a prior act of racketeering activity; The Supreme Court has instructed federal courts to follow the continuity plus relationship test in order to determine whether the facts of a specific case give rise to an established pattern. Predicate acts are related if they "have the same or similar purposes, results, participants, victims, or methods of commission, or otherwise are interrelated by distinguishing characteristics and are not isolated events." H.J. Inc. v. Northwestern Bell Telephone Co. Continuity is both a closed and open ended concept, referring to either a closed period of conduct, or to past conduct that by its nature projects into the future with a threat of repetition.

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/rico.htm

Regardless of whether the action is criminal or civil, a violation of RICO "requires proof of (1) the existence of an enterprise, (2) either a pattern of racketeering activity or the collection of an unlawful debt, and (3) that the enterprise be engaged in or affect interstate commerce." [150] Section 1961 defines several key terms, such as "racketeering activity," "enterprise," "pattern of racketeering activity" a nd "unlawful debt" as follows:
"Racketeering activity" generally means (1) any act or threat involving, among other things, gambling, which is a felony under state law, or (2) an act which is indictable under certain provisions of Title 18, such as the Wire Act, the Travel Act, the Interstate Transportation of Wagering Paraphernalia Act, and the Illegal Gambling Business Act. [151]·
"Enterprise" is defined to include "any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or other legal entity, and union or group of individuals associated in fact although not a legal entity." [152]·
"Pattern of racketeering activity" "requires at least two acts of racketeering activity, one of which occurred after the effective date of this chapter and the last of which occurred within ten years (excluding any period of imprisonment) after the commission of a prior act of racketeering activity." [153]·
"Unlawful debt" generally means a debt that is incurred or contracted in a gambling activity or business in violation of federal, state or local law or is unenforceable, in whole or part, due to usury laws. [154] Congress clearly intended that evidence proving the collection of an unlawful debt would substitute for a showing that two or more predicate offenses were engaged in forming a pattern of racketeering activity. [155]

[Big Dakota]

Gosh, this just isn't going away, is it. :shush:

[03EBZ06]

Gosh, this just isn't going away, is it. :shush:
Nope...."On-Going Investigation"

[jay cee]

Gosh, this just isn't going away, is it. :shush:

SHhhh, don't disturb their fantasies. It's all they have to hold on to right now.

[silverbear]

For doing.... WHAT, exactly ? Owning a property that someone else used to commit a crime.

The people that CONTINUE to be obsessed with this guy really need to get some form of life. The federal government opened it's own independent investigation in this case for the SOLE purpose of going after Vick and they found nothing.

The most pathetic part of this is considering the level of sophistication involved here. Dog fighting. These are common thugs, as you guys all seem giddy to point out. And yet they were able to cover their tracks so well that they cannot find a single shred of evidence to tie Mike Vick to dog fighting. Are you KIDDING me ?

Time to move on guys.

Care to amend that position now that he's been indicted??

Guess you feel pretty foolish right now, believing Mortenson's BS...

[silverbear]

They will have to move on.

Looks like we won't have to "move on" for a while, at least...

But the Vick defenders might have to find a place to hide from the ridicule headed their way...

[Big Dakota]

For doing.... WHAT, exactly ? Owning a property that someone else used to commit a crime.

The people that CONTINUE to be obsessed with this guy really need to get some form of life. The federal government opened it's own independent investigation in this case for the SOLE purpose of going after Vick and they found nothing.

The most pathetic part of this is considering the level of sophistication involved here. Dog fighting. These are common thugs, as you guys all seem giddy to point out. And yet they were able to cover their tracks so well that they cannot find a single shred of evidence to tie Mike Vick to dog fighting. Are you KIDDING me ?

Time to move on guys.

Yes, let's move on to a trial and a conviction then a cozy federal jail cell. :lmao2:

[Big Dakota]

:laugh2: Mike Vick will be playing this season....




http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0398165/Cheerleaders_y_ex.jpg (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0398165/Segal20in20glasses_y_ex.jpg.html?seq=2)

[LowTech]

oops



:o:

[CowboyMike]

This is ridiculous.

ESPN clearly has bias against the Cowboys.

But an idiot thug Michael Vick is their "media darling" and Mort here tried to bring him into a good light. Good thing the indictment made that crash and burn.

[Vintage]

Looks like we won't have to "move on" for a while, at least...

But the Vick defenders might have to find a place to hide from the ridicule headed their way...

Hide? Nah. I'm more likely to hide from what this season's results could be for this team.

And we weren't Vick defenders either.

I was on record saying I didn't think he'd be indicted. He got indicted. I was wrong. If he's guilty, I hope he gets convicted. If he's innocent, I hope nothing comes of this. I've already explained that to you many a time silverbear. We've discusses this in numerous threads. I would have thought you'd remember. That, or you are just overly excited I was wrong and can't wait to flame me. Either way, it doesn't really bother me.

[Doomsday101]

Vick is in a heap of trouble and the fallout may be even worse. Regardless of how some may feel about dog fighting there is no debate that this country is full of pet lovers and the public sentiments against Vick will be strong. Win or lose in this trail this is going to cost Vick big time. My personal feelings if found guilty they need to nail his hide to the wall.

[DanTanna]

I hope this doesn't screw up our Cleveland pick! :(

[joseephuss]

I hope this doesn't screw up our Cleveland pick! :(

It could help. Atlanta may be in need of a QB. If they end up with a higher draft slot, then they may use it on a QB. If not, they may want to move up to get one and be willing to trade. Options are good and Dallas should have a bunch come next draft.

[silverbear]

Hide? Nah. I'm more likely to hide from what this season's results could be for this team.

And we weren't Vick defenders either.

I didn't really have you in mind when I wrote that...