Vick Poll

[fortdick]

OK, let's do some sampling here. We are an unbiased focus group (Falcon fans would not be) and we should represdent a cross section of NFL fans, so statistically speaking, the numbers should be a fair indictment.

[DallasEast]

This really should have been a public poll. ;)

[Bob Sacamano]

where's

kill him

??

they should set a pack of wild dogs on his arse

[CrazyCowboy]

Right now he is innocent.

[JakeCamp12]

If I were Arthur Blank, he would be gone already. I would rather lose then have a low life scum like Vick on my team. Seeing some of the video of this type of thing on CNN made me almost puke in my living room. I hope karma comes back to bite him in his arse...:shoot3:

[big dog cowboy]

Do nothing now, then suspend him for life when he is found guilty. Make him clean dog kennels every day in jail.

[Wood]

I agree ....where is the option for putting vick in a room with the dogs that were not killed and having him attacked. If he doesn't perform up to our expectations....we get to body slam him.

[Ky31]

Due process is due process, however if he is found guilty he should be banned for life. The clip that was shown on espn was one of the most horrifying things I have ever seen. Just on the fact alone that he would hang out with people of this nature, let alone partake in something like this, I would not be able to cut his a-- from my football team fast enough.

[Crown Royal]

I said wait because at this point we aren't aware of how severely he was involved. If he owned the house and maybe knew about it but didn't do anything, then 8 games. If he bred dogs and was deep into it and cut their legs off and used them as carpets, then for longer.

What do the NFL bylaws say about lifetime bans?

[Billy Bullocks]

Based on the fact that there is pretty strong evidence and the whole issue is giving the NFL a HUGE black eye, I would say, suspend him at LEAST 8 games. If you are throwing Tank and Pacman out for being idiots, don't change it up for Vick because of his merchandise power.

If he goes to Jail, Goodell doesn't have to worry about suspending him. I have a feeling he gets no jail time somehow. That's how America works.

[Benni]

I miss an option like; suspension not needed, which ever team hires him will go down automaticly...

I really can't see any franchise that can support a player with that kind of background (grounded he's guilty). I'm just glad Jerry is smart enough to never consider hiring the guy.

EDIT: I don't care if he goes to jail or not. If it's just half true, then my meaning stands.

[ThreeSportStar80]

Innocent until proven guilty... That's what's wrong with America now, people convict folks before anything goes to court.

[Big Dakota]

I say hold off. With the Rocket Docket, his fate will be sealed by the end of the year. Then the commish can put the HAMMER to his head. If they can't convict him, he still get's suspended for dragging the NFL and the Falcons through the mud. Either way, he will pay.

[StanleySpadowski]

The NFL should suspend Vick, not for the dogfighting allegations (at least right now), but rather for associating with known gamblers. Win/win for the Falcons, the NFL, fans and even in some ways Vick himself.

[Big Dakota]

Maybe the NFL owners should think about giving themselves some kind of a discount on the cap hit when guys run afoul of the law and have to be cut?

[flashback]

Suspend him until his current legal troubles are over. Even if he's exonerated, the Falcons would be stupid to let him QB this franchise when they have no idea how much practice/prep time he'll miss if he's up in Virginia 2 or 3 days a week during the season.

The Falcons will probably have to move on without Mike Vick after this year.

One other thing: I agree that he's innocent until proven guilty, but any of our employers could ****-can our quicker than you can say "I need Thursday afternoon off" if it was any one of us. The Falcons or the NFL are well within their rights to give him 2 or 4 or 6 months off.

[TheSkaven]

What do the NFL bylaws say about lifetime bans?After the NFL suspends a player, the player is not automatically reinstated after the period expires. The case is reviewed. Therefore, in theory any suspension could be indefinite.

[GimmeTheBall!]

OK, let's do some sampling here. We are an unbiased focus group (Falcon fans would not be) and we should represdent a cross section of NFL fans, so statistically speaking, the numbers should be a fair indictment.

Yes, I think we are normal and practical bunch, representative of the cross section of the NFL
Please proceed

[GimmeTheBall!]

OK, let's do some sampling here. We are an unbiased focus group (Falcon fans would not be) and we should represdent a cross section of NFL fans, so statistically speaking, the numbers should be a fair indictment.


I say delay the hammer until the legal process is done

Then suspend if there is any legal sanction

But if the Falcans are smart they will keep him in camp and start him

His court case, if the NFL awaits the courts and his lawyers delay, wouldn't begin until spring

[SuspectCorner]

A basic tenet put in place by our slave-owning, yet somehow, miraculously, forward-thinking (there must have been some Divine intervention taking place here - cuz these are a bunch of Bubba's - they just happen to have been born and bred north of the Mason-Dixon Line 'sall) forefathers .... INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

We should fry no QB before his time.

[Rampage]

do nothing until the judge says he is guilty or innocent. if guilty, ban him for life

[blindzebra]

They should suspend him tomorrow for a year.

Waiting serves no purpose since his career is all but over at that point anyway since he's facing at least 6 years.

The story alone is an embarrassment to the league.

The fact he lied to the Commish doesn't help.

The factor of superstar versus common player works against him as well.

[arglebargle]

Due process really only applies in the courts. The NFL can decide this deserves a suspension at any point. It may be challenged, but that's not the point.

I don't think that Goodell wants this issue to be slime-ing up the NFL all through the next season. And Atlanta is looking at having a very distracted, and disliked QB. I can only imagine what the opposing fans are going to do with this when Vick steps in to their stadiums....

Anyone know when the first court procedings are going to take place?

[blindzebra]

Due process really only applies in the courts. The NFL can decide this deserves a suspension at any point. It may be challenged, but that's not the point.

I don't think that Goodell wants this issue to be slime-ing up the NFL all through the next season. And Atlanta is looking at having a very distracted, and disliked QB. I can only imagine what the opposing fans are going to do with this when Vick steps in to their stadiums....

Anyone know when the first court procedings are going to take place?

I believe his arraignment is July 26th.

[nathanlt]

Given that an indictment is a statement that there is enough evidence to prosecute, I'd say Vick's association has already cast a negative light on the image of the NFL. At this point, he has already walked into a situation where, at the very best, he was negligent in knowing what permanent structures were built on his property. Very incriminating, indeed.

In the court of public opinion, there is considerable room for backlash against the pocketbooks of the NFL and the Falcons franchise. That could drive some punishment in the short term before the NFL ever finds out what the verdict is at the end of the trial.

On a side note, a Falcons - Browns matchup would be much more interesting if Vick were playing, due to the whole dog pound thing, but the 2007 schedule does not allow for that, and the case would be solved before the 2008 schedule comes out.

Talk about the nation unified behind the Browns winning one!!! Of course every Dallas fan would take an 0-16 Browns season in a heartbeat.

Back to the main topic, though a short term suspension is possible simply for terrible judgement, a season suspension is not out of the question. That will be a distraction for the whole year to a Falcons team who already is working with a new coach.

It's a tough call, but I say a season long suspension is most likely. Vick should bow out this year because his very presence is a distraction to the team. It's an interesting topic, and could be speculated all year long.

[McCordsville Cowboy]

I guess Marcus stomping on Louisville players, partying with underage girls and toting Gats through a McDonalds drive through is not gangsta enough for the Vick name....

[burmafrd]

as an aside. Less then 1/3 of the founding fathers that were at the Constituitional Convention owned slaves. Many of those most involved with the actual work of constructing the Constituition were not slave owners.
Its a common misconception that some have tried hard to perpetuate due to their own agenda.

[sago1]

You all continue to forget a few basic things. Just like driving a car is not a right, but a privilege, playing in the NFL is not a right but a privlege. All players' contract include a phrase on player conduct "if it's detrimental to the game and the NFL". Also the new CBA includes a statement which gives the Commissioner the right to suspend a player whether he's convicted or not.

This indictment includes allegations of dogfighting across state lines, gambling, etc. (don't know if income tax evasion is included but if he won & didn't declare it on his taxes, then they have him on that as well) and it has been going on since 2001 and continued thru April 2007. Understand the 18 page indictment includes such details as he personally ordered the execution of several dogs, even took a trip to another state with his $23,000 in hand to pay off a debt to the winner of the dogfight, etc. Even has the name of the dogs, etc. In other words a lot of details and you can bet the feds know a lot more.

This is more then just a nightmare for the NFL and the Falcons. Last night CNN, Fox (O'Reilly), and MSNBC all carried segments re Vick & showed a clip about what happened at Vicks' VA house, etc. So it's not just a nightmare in the USA but rest of the world will get to see an NFL star screw up as well.
What kind of reception will Vick (and the Falcons) get when the team runs out onto the field particularly at away games? You can bet it won't be the usual boos and what/how many anti-Vick demonstrations will there be, how much of a distraction will Vick invariably become as the media turns a big spotlight on him to the detriment of football, etc. You can also bet opponents aren't going to treat him gently nor even other players on the team when they play him. How do these players explain to their children (particular to the smaller children) when their children here/see on television that Michael Vicks kills puppies & dogs. Besides we can to see Vick stand up in court to face charges and then we will get to see a federal trial in the fast paced & conservative 4th district/judicial court with all the details. The feds are out for blood because this is not a 1 time dogfight but going on since 2001 when Vick drafted until April 2007. Vick will be made an example cause he's the major prominent person they've ever been able to get evidence on.

BTW: Understand dogfighting is really becoming an underground major problem. It's not just the dogfighting alone as bad as that is but apparently drug use/sales is routine at such activities along with gambling, etc. In some cases even the execution of the dog that lost is part of the social activities in such a dogfight which the fans sit and watch after the dogfight itself. This whole Vick problem will be an issue the entire season and I really question how much the NFL can tolerant before action is taken by the Commish.

[fiveandcounting]

Innocent until proven guilty... That's what's wrong with America now, people convict folks before anything goes to court.


True, but the NFL already offically does "convict" people through suspensions before being found guilty. How can they change now?

[lspain1]

I don't think the NFL acts until the verdict is in. That said, I also don't believe the Falcons can use Vick at all this season....I think they send him home until this gets sorted out.

[fortdick]

What surprises me is the numbers. 83 people want him suspended for some length of time, but the surprising part is 66 feel the NFL should do nothing until after the trial.

44% think he should be allowed to play.

weird.

[deadrody]

Maybe the NFL owners should think about giving themselves some kind of a discount on the cap hit when guys run afoul of the law and have to be cut?Bad idea. That just gives teams an incentive to take risks on guys with questionable character.

[Stautner]

I don't quite fit into any of the poll categories.

I think the NFL should step back from the situation a little and not immediately succumb to the public outcry.

They need to look at the situation VERY closely, take some time, and be VERY sure that they have enough verifyable evidence at their disposal to take action.

Unlike many, I disagree with the notion that anyone accused of something should immediately be suspended. I believe that rather than act on emotion and public outcry they have to do everything possible in this situation to feel comfortable that their is plenty of verifyable evidence before acting.

If, however, they reach that conclusion, they should suspend him for at least a year.

One possible short term solution would to put him on a temporary suspension from playing in games, but allow him to workout with the team and prepare for the season while the NFL investigates the matter further. That would be kind of a token suspension, but that way they can at least take some action while taking the time to make sure they cover all their bases before taking a more decisive action.

[03EBZ06]

What surprises me is the numbers. 83 people want him suspended for some length of time, but the surprising part is 66 feel the NFL should do nothing until after the trial.

44% think he should be allowed to play.

weird.
Sounds about right, considering all the difference of opinion on this site and various other boards regarding Vick, his alleged actions, and dog fighting itself.

[fortdick]

Sounds about right, considering all the difference of opinion on this site and various other boards regarding Vick, his alleged actions, and dog fighting itself.

I can understand about wanting to wait until the legal process is done with it, but I can't understand anyone that would be supportive of dog fighting. It is plain out cruel.

[03EBZ06]

I can understand about wanting to wait until the legal process is done with it, but I can't understand anyone that would be supportive of dog fighting. It is plain out cruel.
I can't either but that is nature of some people. There are some strange and sick people out there.

[5Stars]

I want Vick to play this whole year. I want him to suffer and be miserable during every game he plays this year. I want him out in public so the fans can make their thoughts known to Mr. Mexico!

Let him play...yeah, let him play the whole season!

:cool:

[jazzcat22]

Wait and see what the courts decide. How could it be anything else at this point.

However, IF he is found guilty. It should be suspension for life.

If it is true, they shot and tortured and killed dogs for losing. Maybe the judge should give this sentence.

The owner of the Falcons is hereby ordered to shoot and kill Mike Vick, if he loses a ballgame.

[cc cowboy]

Right now he is innocent.

So is Pacman ... I didn't see people maiking this apology for him. I for one am glad pacman was suspended and think Vick should be as well. If you support Goodell's suspension policies, yo have to support them across the board. It does not matter if the player's name is Vick, Pacman, Brady or even Romo.

I am sure that i would be let go from my company if I was indicted on felony charges and had to miss alot of work to go to trial.

[cc cowboy]

I can understand about wanting to wait until the legal process is done with it, but I can't understand anyone that would be supportive of dog fighting. It is plain out cruel.

I take it that you are not an MMA fan.

[Stautner]

So is Pacman ... I didn't see people maiking this apology for him. I for one am glad pacman was suspended and think Vick should be as well. If you support Goodell's suspension policies, yo have to support them across the board. It does not matter if the player's name is Vick, Pacman, Brady or even Romo.

I am sure that i would be let go from my company if I was indicted on felony charges and had to miss alot of work to go to trial.

Again, Pacman has had 5-6 run in's with the law in ONE YEAR ..... and the ONLY YEAR he has been in the NFL (if he plays 4 more yars he could reach 30 scraps with the law, and he will still be a young man - plenty of time to expand the record) .......... and he has admitted to wrongdoing in the past.

Having that kind of history is what makes his case different.

[CoCo]

Again, Pacman has had 5-6 run in's with the law in ONE YEAR ..... and the ONLY YEAR he has been in the NFL (if he plays 4 more yars he could reach 30 scraps with the law, and he will still be a young man - plenty of time to expand the record) .......... and he has admitted to wrongdoing in the past.

Having that kind of history is what makes his case different.

I don't follow these stories closely like many do. I'm typically not very well informed on them so I don't know many details on Pac-Man or Vick, what's fact and what's hyperbole.

While PacMan indeed has been a regular customer of the police, and he allegedly was a principal in the incident which has crippled the bar owner, I'm not sure I consider his collective offenses to be a greater black eye for the NFL than the allegations surrounding Vick.

And with sufficient evidence existing to indict Vick, and if Goodell's first concern is indeed image of the league, what in the world is he waiting for? Nothing good comes from Vick being associated with the Falcons or NFL right now. Even if the guy is ultimately not convicted its going to be a circus and major distraction while the process plays out. Again, if Goodell's concern is for league image, Vick should be suspended in short order. If the NFL wants to wait for the arraignment or do a bit more investigating on their own, fine. But Vick should be suspended sooner rather than later for the good of the league.

How much moreso should the Falcons feel this way. I don't know all the cap ramifications of the different options available but I suspect the Falcons are going to want Vick away from the team sooner rather than later.

This can all be written off to league image & distraction without prematurely "convicting" the guy. Frankly, even if Vick is only the owner of the property and not involved, and is a stand up guy, he should undertand being suspended while this mess is sorted out.

[Stautner]

I don't follow these stories closely like many do. I'm typically not very well informed on them so I don't know many details on Pac-Man or Vick, what's fact and what's hyperbole.

While PacMan indeed has been a regular customer of the police, and he allegedly was a principal in the incident which has crippled the bar owner, I'm not sure I consider his collective offenses to be a greater black eye for the NFL than the allegations surrounding Vick.

And with sufficient evidence existing to indict Vick, and if Goodell's first concern is indeed image of the league, what in the world is he waiting for? Nothing good comes from Vick being associated with the Falcons or NFL right now. Even if the guy is ultimately not convicted its going to be a circus and major distraction while the process plays out. Again, if Goodell's concern is for league image, Vick should be suspended in short order. If the NFL wants to wait for the arraignment or do a bit more investigating on their own, fine. But Vick should be suspended sooner rather than later for the good of the league.

How much moreso should the Falcons feel this way. I don't know all the cap ramifications of the different options available but I suspect the Falcons are going to want Vick away from the team sooner rather than later.

This can all be written off to league image & distraction without prematurely "convicting" the guy. Frankly, even if Vick is only the owner of the property and not involved, and is a stand up guy, he should undertand being suspended while this mess is sorted out.


As has been mentioned - the point isn't that Pacman's offenses have been worse, it's that he has exhausted his credibility with the league. Plus he has admitted to wrongdoing in the past.

While the allegations against Vick are worse, Vick has nether admitted anything or have had anything proven against him, and he doesn't suffer from the same loss of credibility that a habitual lawbreaker like Pacman does.

He's probably guilty, and as the evidence comes in the NFL may determine they have seen enough to justify taking action at some point, but this is not an immediate action no-brainer like with Pacman.

[CoCo]

As has been mentioned - the point isn't that Pacman's offenses have been worse, it's that he has exhausted his credibility with the league. Plus he has admitted to wrongdoing in the past.

While the allegations against Vick are worse, Vick has nether admitted anything or have had anything proven against him, and he doesn't suffer from the same loss of credibility that a habitual lawbreaker like Pacman does.

He's probably guilty, and as the evidence comes in the NFL may determine they have seen enough to justify taking action at some point, but this is not an immediate action no-brainer like with Pacman.

I'm just sayin that to the average NFL fan, and even non-NFL fan, which player do you think gives the league a bigger black-eye right now?

Which player would get the most focus by being in camp, playing in a game, showing up as a topic on pre-game shows for all the wrong reasons, etc?

For me, the answer is clearly Michael Vick.

[AtlCB]

I want Vick to play this whole year. I want him to suffer and be miserable during every game he plays this year. I want him out in public so the fans can make their thoughts known to Mr. Mexico!

Let him play...yeah, let him play the whole season!

:cool:I predict Vick will get booed in Atlanta. You should hear talk radio over here. The fans are pissed!

[AtlCB]

As has been mentioned - the point isn't that Pacman's offenses have been worse, it's that he has exhausted his credibility with the league. Plus he has admitted to wrongdoing in the past.

While the allegations against Vick are worse, Vick has nether admitted anything or have had anything proven against him, and he doesn't suffer from the same loss of credibility that a habitual lawbreaker like Pacman does.

He's probably guilty, and as the evidence comes in the NFL may determine they have seen enough to justify taking action at some point, but this is not an immediate action no-brainer like with Pacman.

Vick gets a pass, because he's a liar?

[CoCo]

I might also feel that PacMan Jones, by virtue of at least partial honesty and recognition of his shortcomings has more credibility than Michael Vick does.

I'm not adamant about all this. Not suggesting Goodell is out to lunch. Just based on what I know, I'm not sure why he's waiting to put Mike in timeout. But Goodell obviously understands it all much better than I.

[Sam I Am]

Where is the Suspend Vick for Life if the courts convict him? So, I just say just let him fight with the dogs.

[Stautner]

Vick gets a pass, because he's a liar?


Come on - are you uneducated or live in an igloo with no access to the real world?

The clear point is that PROOF is required ........ and if it's proven that he is lying then the hammer should come down on him ........ HARD.

It's funny how people let emotions get in the way of logic.

Or do you not believe in the principles of American justice ......... do you believe that people aren't entitled to due process and that the mere accusation of wrongdoing is sufficient to condemn a person?

If that's the case, I accuse you of murder ...... now turn yourself in to death row and let's get on with the execution.

[AtlCB]

Come on - are you uneducated or live in an igloo with no access to the real world?
that was mature :rolleyes:

The clear point is that PROOF is required ........ and if it's proven that he is lying then the hammer should come down on him ........ HARD.

It's funny how people let emotions get in the way of logic.

Or do you not believe in the principles of American justice ......... do you believe that people aren't entitled to due process and that the mere accusation of wrongdoing is sufficient to condemn a person?

If that's the case, I accuse you of murder ...... now turn yourself in to death row and let's get on with the execution.
I'm not saying he should be executed; I just believe he should be suspended. He has just been indicted by the Feds! Do you really believe they have no proof? Goodell has been suspending players before they have actually been convicted.

A person needs to be convicted or plead guilty to receive punishment from the government. A person does not have to be convicted to be fired or suspended from their job.

[Stautner]

that was mature :rolleyes:


I'm not saying he should be executed; I just believe he should be suspended. He has just been indicted by the Feds! Do you really believe they have no proof? Goodell has been suspending players before they have actually been convicted.

A person needs to be convicted or plead guilty to receive punishment from the government. A person does not have to be convicted to be fired or suspended from their job.

Okay -that wasn't so mature.

But don't take the execution thing literally - that was an analogy.

The point was not that a player has to be convicted of a crime - I've never said that - but he does have to have more than a mere accusation.

The league investigates these things, then if it's determined that there is sufficient evidence to believe that Vick has done something improper, THEN they act.

Like I said, if there is evidence that he is lying, then he shoul be punished, but just a gut feeling or personal feeling about Vick doesn't cut it.

That's why Pacman is different - he has proved over and over and ove again he is untrustworthy - he has no more credibility.

[joseephuss]

I vote wait and see how things play out. They don't have to wait until a final verdict, but until things at least really get started. What if Vick was suspended tomorrow, but next week the case was dropped? Give it some time. I know the NFL and Goodell have the right to suspend him if they see this as a black eye. I don't question that they have the power. Having it and using it are different.

And waiting does not mean giving Vick preferential treatment. The league waited to suspend Pacman, Henry and Tank. Their cases(the ones they were suspended for) were around for a year. Goodell may not have waited for final verdicts in each case, but he did get a good feel on how those pending cases were going to end up. It is too early to tell what will happen with Vick.

I saw a poster mention Pacman's Las Vegas incident. Pacman was not suspended for that. Depending on how that case plays out, he could be seeing more suspension time. Each case is different and each back story is different. Waiting may provide the NFL with it best case to give Vick the harshest penalty and longest suspension.

I think Vick is guilty of something. To what extent I don't know. I think he will face a suspension.

[joseephuss]

that was mature :rolleyes:


I'm not saying he should be executed; I just believe he should be suspended. He has just been indicted by the Feds! Do you really believe they have no proof? Goodell has been suspending players before they have actually been convicted.

A person needs to be convicted or plead guilty to receive punishment from the government. A person does not have to be convicted to be fired or suspended from their job.

Goodell is not blindly handing out suspensions.

Pacman had already been found guilty in one marijunana possession case. He broke an NFL rule for not reporting two of his arrests. Sure he had some pending cases, but Goodell had a good idea how they would end.

Henry already had guilty pleas in a case as well.

Tank Johnson had already served jail time.

None of their suspensions were based solely on just being arrested or indicted. There was more substance to that.

[Stautner]

Goodell is not blindly handing out suspensions.

Pacman had already been found guilty in one marijunana possession case. He broke an NFL rule for not reporting two of his arrests. Sure he had some pending cases, but Goodell had a good idea how they would end.

Henry already had guilty pleas in a case as well.

Tank Johnson had already served jail time.

None of their suspensions were based solely on just being arrested or indicted. There was more substance to that.

This point is so obvious I am amazed people don't see it.

I think it's just that they are so blinded by the nature of what Vick is accused of that they don't see it.

[jimmy40]

I miss an option like; suspension not needed, which ever team hires him will go down automaticly...

I really can't see any franchise that can support a player with that kind of background (grounded he's guilty). I'm just glad Jerry is smart enough to never consider hiring the guy.

EDIT: I don't care if he goes to jail or not. If it's just half true, then my meaning stands.Teams support players that beat the hell out of women. Where's the outrage for that?

[03EBZ06]

I think most of us believe Goodell will wait and see how the trial pans out before he takes an action, if needed.

So the question is what should Falcons do?

Do they keep quite and let Vick come to TC and play the regular season and deal with the media circus and just accept negative publicity?

Or

Do they separated themselves from Vick by suspending Vick and deal with a terrible season with whatever QB they pick to start?

Either way, they are in a terrible situation but which one is worst of two evil? What will they do?

[5Stars]

Either way, they are in a terrible situation but which one is worst of two evil? What will they do?


IMO, It would be better for Vick if he just took a vacation this year to set things right...that's what the Falcons should do, or release him?

Because if he has to play in these staidums this year...not good!

The best thing for Vick and the Falcons is for him to sit this year..get it right.

[5Stars]

Teams support players that beat the hell out of women. Where's the outrage for that?


Different thing, my friend.

Hurt me once? Shame on you.. Hurt me twice...shame on me! That applies to boys and girls.


Dogs don't get that choice to walk away like we can.

;)

[03EBZ06]

IMO, It would be better for Vick if he just took a vacation this year to set things right...that's what the Falcons should do, or release him?

Because if he has to play in these staidums this year...not good!

The best thing for Vick and the Falcons is for him to sit this year..get it right.
Yup, if I was Blank, this approach is what I'd take. But he have a tough decision to make, hope it's the right one.

[Stautner]

Different thing, my friend.

Hurt me once? Shame on you.. Hurt me twice...shame on me! That applies to boys and girls.


Dogs don't get that choice to walk away like we can.

;)


This explains a lot of your hostility for me - your love of animals blinds you to reality.

I love animals too - have always owned them and loved them - but lets face a little reality........

Just because a woman can walk away from spousal abouse doesn't make it any more right for the man to do it, and it doesn't make the man a better person that deserves the support of his teammates.

You are essentially blaming the woman if a man beats her a second time and saying the team should support the player because the woman should have known he would do it.

[joseephuss]

I think most of us believe Goodell will wait and see how the trial pans out before he takes an action, if needed.

So the question is what should Falcons do?

Do they keep quite and let Vick come to TC and play the regular season and deal with the media circus and just accept negative publicity?

Or

Do they separated themselves from Vick by suspending Vick and deal with a terrible season with whatever QB they pick to start?

Either way, they are in a terrible situation but which one is worst of two evil? What will they do?

I think those are some good questions that Atlanta will be asking. They may even develop some answers pretty quickly if there indeed is a fan backlash.