Vick pleads not guilty; trial set for Nov. 26

[03EBZ06]

Vick pleads not guilty; trial set for Nov. 26 (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-2-123/Vick-pleads-not-guilty--trial-set-for-Nov--26.html) http://assets.espn.go.com/profile/i/trans/icon_report_hi.gif (http://myespn.go.com/profile/violation?ou=hashmarksadmin&at=7&vid=1185479814956)

July 26, 2007 3:56 PM


Posted by Mike Sando while the Mosley family welcomes its newest member

Michael Vick has pleaded not guilty in his felony dogfighting case. Trial has been set for Nov. 26. This according to ESPN broadcast reports. The Falcons have a Nov. 22 home game against Indianapolis, followed by a Dec. 2 road game against St. Louis.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-2-123/Vick-pleads-not-guilty--trial-set-for-Nov--26.html

[speedkilz88]

I guess he requested a speedy trial? Even though I wouldn't be surprised if the dates are moved even further, it always seems like lawyers are asking for delays.

[superpunk]

I think what you meant to say is that Vick's professional liar stood up in front of the judge and told him that Vick was innocent. :eek:

I won't tell you how to do your job, though.

[Doomsday101]

I guess he requested a speedy trial? Even though I wouldn't be surprised if the dates are moved even further, it always seems like lawyers are asking for delays.

This court is known for it's quickness.

[miamicowboy21]

This trial won't end before 2008. High profile cases rarely get solved quickly. This is going to drag out for a good while.

[Calvin2Tony2Emmitt2Julius]

It's good to see the real world. The news media is portraying this "The whole world Hates Vick",Mob rule,boil his nuts picture and If Our fair City Of Richmond is any indication, that's just not the case. Yes PETA was there, and yes the usual rent a Mob lackies were there but there were just as many people who support Vick.

Yea this is going to be interesting.

Court T.V 's rating are going to go through the roof. You knew the circus was coming to town for sure.

[Doomsday101]

It's good to see the real world. The news media is portraying this "The whole world Hates Vick",Mob rule,boil his nuts picture and If Our fair City Of Richmond is any indication, that's just not the case. Yes PETA was there, and yes the usual rent a Mob lackies were there but there were just as many people who support Vick.

Yea this is going to be interesting.I

Court T.V 's rating are going to go through the roof. You knew the cicus was coming to town for sure.

I doubt the Judge in this case will allow camera's

[Sam I Am]

This trial won't end before 2008. High profile cases rarely get solved quickly. This is going to drag out for a good while.

I just heard Al Cowlings just picked up another white Ford Bronco and he heading to Virginia.

[Doomsday101]

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - When Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick appears in federal court next week on dogfighting charges, he'll go before a judge not impressed by Vick's celebrity and in a court known nationwide for its speedy handling of cases.

Legal experts describe U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson as a tough but fair jurist who, in five years on the federal bench, has become known for handing down stiff sentences, for being prepared and for allowing both sides to show their cards.

"Trial lawyers love to appear in his court because he lets the lawyers try their case," defense attorney and former prosecutor William J. Dinkin of Richmond said. "Everyone is going to get their fair shake. He's a very evenhanded trial judge."

Vick's appearance July 26 along with three other defendants will be to enter pleas to charges of competitive dogfighting, procuring and training pit bulls for fighting, and conducting the enterprise across state lines. If convicted of both felony charges, the four face up to six years in prison, fines of up to $350,000 and restitution.

Hudson is "generally known as a hard sentencer," Dinkin said, and is not likely to treat Vick any differently because of his superstar status and $130 million contract.

"He's straight forward, a straight shooter," said Carl Tobias, a law professor at the University of Richmond. "You don't get any special perks because of who you are, and you don't get punished because you aren't somebody who is a public figure."

The Falcons will be conducting their first practice of training camp under a new coach while Vick is in court, and Hudson is unlikely to be influenced at all by that.

"I would not expect Judge Hudson to make any special allowances because Mr. Vick plays in the NFL," said defense lawyer Craig W. Sampson of Richmond, who has had several cases before Hudson. "Virginia courts, both state and federal, are generally very businesslike in the way they run their dockets."

That's especially true of the U.S. District Court in Richmond, which has become known as the "rocket docket" for getting its cases handled expediently.

"They really do move the cases along," Tobias said. "They're no-nonsense


I don't think this Judge is going to allow a bunch of stall tactics.

[Hoov]

I think what you meant to say is that Vick's professional liar stood up in front of the judge and told him that Vick was innocent. :eek:

I won't tell you how to do your job, though.

LMAO. :laugh2:

[tomson75]

Anyone that thinks that the "prepared statement" was actually comprised of "Micheal Vick's words" is mentally handicapped. Lawyers creep me out...except for pep and ogt, of course.

[Yeagermeister]

I think what you meant to say is that Vick's professional liar stood up in front of the judge and told him that Vick was innocent. :eek:

I won't tell you how to do your job, though.

You mean professional liar to the reformed professional liar. :D

[ThreeSportStar80]

I'm in Richmond as well, downtown is jammed...

[sago1]

Actually I understand his attorney gave up their rights to a speedy trial and even then they got the trial date set back only about 6 weeks to Nov 26. Otherwise this case would probably have been schedule for mid to late Oct.

[5Stars]

I'm in Richmond as well, downtown is jammed...


Did you get to see Vick? Did you shine his shoes?

:confused:

[Doomsday101]

Did you get to see Vick? Did you shine his shoes?

:confused:

He was wearing Hush Puppies. :laugh2:

[speedkilz88]

Yeah the "spring training" comment was pretty funny and made it obvious Vick didn't write it.

NFLNETWORK is actually saying that Vicks lawyers waived their right to a speedy trial. So they could have had it sooner. This court system does appear to be a nononsense one with little delays.

[Hoov]

You mean professional liar to the reformed professional liar. :D
Haha, clever yeag. It took me a second to get that.

[03EBZ06]

He was wearing Hush Puppies. :laugh2:
http://www.fototime.com/{BD6659DE-7B57-41BD-AC2C-001CE6C6B822}/picture.JPG

[5Stars]

He was wearing Hush Puppies. :laugh2:


:lmao2: :laugh2: :laugh1: Pretty good, Doomsday!

[ABQCOWBOY]

I just heard Al Cowlings just picked up another white Ford Bronco and he heading to Virginia.


:laugh2:

Guess he better fill up.

Too funny NYC.

[Yeagermeister]

Was he wearing a purple full length fur coat????? :D

[5Stars]

Was he wearing a purple full length fur coat????? :D


Yeah, purple dyed dog fur! He did stop to pee on the fire hydrant in front of the courthouse before he went in...

:eek:

[hank2k]

Im amazed at the number of people who think Vick cant beat this rap.

His lawyer got Jayson Williams acquitted of the major charges against him, despite an eyewitness who saw him shoot his limo driver in the face. The retrial on manslaughter ended hung with 8-4 in favor of acquittal.

Another Martin client, the corrupt mayor of Atlanta , Bill Campbell, faced 9 years on a variety of federal charges (racketeering, bribery) but all that stuck was tax evasion. And this was after a FIVE year federal investigation. How long did the Feds investigate Vick, 5 months? Less??

As soon as Vicks lawyers , private investigators, jury consultants, etc. get to work , we will begin hearing stories about these "corroborating witnesses" against Vick and how unreliable they are , how they're out to save their own necks by ratting out Vick , make a buck etc.

All it takes is one juror to say not guilty and they cant convict him.

That being said , I think he's guilty as sin.

[5Stars]

That being said , I think he's guilty as sin.


Guilty or not guilty, the damage is already done. He will never be the same after this...and that might be what he deserves!

[tomson75]

Im amazed at the number of people who think Vick cant beat this rap.

His lawyer got Jayson Williams acquitted of the major charges against him, despite an eyewitness who saw him shoot his limo driver in the face. The retrial on manslaughter ended hung with 8-4 in favor of acquittal.

Another Martin client, the corrupt mayor of Atlanta , Bill Campbell, faced 9 years on a variety of federal charges (racketeering, bribery) but all that stuck was tax evasion. And this was after a FIVE year federal investigation. How long did the Feds investigate Vick, 5 months? Less??

As soon as Vicks lawyers , private investigators, jury consultants, etc. get to work , we will begin hearing stories about these "corroborating witnesses" against Vick and how unreliable they are , how they're out to save their own necks by ratting out Vick , make a buck etc.

All it takes is one juror to say not guilty and they cant convict him.

That being said , I think he's guilty as sin.

True, but dead dogs are a bit harder to shove into a paper shredder than Campbell's reciepts. Just saying. ;)

[burmafrd]

Conviction rate is 95%. That Atlanta mayor was STILL CONVICTED. Maybe they only got him on one charge- but he went DOWN.
Besides- Iguess you have not heard that 2 years ago the Feds were investigating Vick but did not have enough to go to the Federal Grand Jury.
SO they have been on him for quite a while.
Another factor you have ignored- with as high a profile as this case is- MUCH higher then a mere mayor warrants- the Prosecuter will be VERY sure.

[burmafrd]

I did not see any reformed liars there. Only liars.

[5Stars]

I did not see any reformed liars there. Only liars.


Cool it, burmafrd...don't start this mess again!


:laugh2:

[burmafrd]

you're no fun.

[Vintage]

Cool it, burmafrd...don't start this mess again!


:laugh2:

Its ok. He's been getting beat on many different threads across many different forums today.

What's another thread/forum?

[burmafrd]

In your opinion vintage. Which don't mean squat.

[5Stars]

Its ok. He's been getting beat on many different threads across many different forums today.

What's another thread/forum?

Talking about "many different forums"? What happened to PT's crybaby post where he was saying that he was leaving because nobody liked him? Remember that thread...it got deleted for some reason. :confused:

I asked PT to give me the URL of the site that he is a supposedly mod at?

[hank2k]

Conviction rate is 95%.

Fairly meaningless stat given that 99.9 % of defendants cant afford Vicks level of lawyers.What is Vicks lawyers acquittal %?




That Atlanta mayor was STILL CONVICTED. Maybe they only got him on one charge- but he went DOWN.

That case was seen as a major loss for the Feds given the resources used to prosecute that Mayor. So possibly Vick ends up getting convicted for something lesser, does 6 months and walks. People are acting like his career is over. Ray Lewis faced a murder rap, plead out to obstruction and has been playing ever since.


Besides- Iguess you have not heard that 2 years ago the Feds were investigating Vick but did not have enough to go to the Federal Grand Jury.

You dont need much to get a grand jury indictment, given that the defense has no say in the "evidence" presented.



SO they have been on him for quite a while.


Really? Most of Vicks allegations against him were from things that happened well over 2 year ago so if they were "on" him , it wasnt much more than a sniff.


Another factor you have ignored- with as high a profile as this case is- MUCH higher then a mere mayor warrants- the Prosecuter will be VERY sure.

Sorry, but a publically elected official running his city like an organized crime family is much more likely to get the federal $$$$ behind the prosecution than some wanna be dog fight kingpin.

[5Stars]

you're no fun.

You're fun!


;)

[Wood]

I can careless which way the jury goes (its wouldn't suprise me if there is a hung jury) .....the damage is done and Atlanta will cut him and Peta, Human Society and every other society will be on this guys trail and nobody and I mean nobody will want to touch him....unless your Detroit and you need to sell some tickets. Vicks life as he knows it is gone. He certainly will regret putting those innocent dogs to death when all is said and done.

[hank2k]

True, but dead dogs are a bit harder to shove into a paper shredder than Campbell's reciepts. Just saying. ;)

True, but unless they have Vick on tape killing a dog, that can be explained any number of ways, not the least of which will be ..."it was those other dudes that did it."

and

"Man, Im a multi- multi- millionaire. What do I need to be fighting dogs for 1500 dollar purses for ?"

[5Stars]

I can careless which way the jury goes (its wouldn't suprise me if there is a hung jury) .....the damage is done and Atlanta will cut him and Peta, Human Society and every other society will be on this guys trail and nobody and I mean nobody will want to touch him....unless your Detroit and you need to sell some tickets. Vicks life as he knows it is gone. He certainly will regret putting those innocent dogs to death when all is said and done.


Guilty by association, even if not guilty, will ruin a persons life! It's his property, it's his cousin, his name is on the indictment, he's been watched for a few years, ect.

If an attorney gets him off, guilty or not guilty...it's over for Vick and his street cred gang.

Who would want to touch this guy? :confused:

[5Stars]

True, but unless they have Vick on tape killing a dog, that can be explained any number of ways, not the least of which will be ..."it was those other dudes that did it."


If he says that, he is guilty! Why? Because if he knows the "other dudes did it" then he knew what was going on!


:laugh2: Careful....

[hank2k]

If he says that, he is guilty! Why? Because if he knows the "other dudes did it" then he knew what was going on!


:laugh2: Careful....

Not really. Of course, hes not going to testify but his lawyers will imply that he was just funding a kennal and the other guys were doing the bad stuff to make a little coin on the side...without his knowledge.

And who's to say Vick wont pay them off to say its true and take the rap Greg Anderson style (ala Barry Bonds)?

[peplaw06]

If he says that, he is guilty! Why? Because if he knows the "other dudes did it" then he knew what was going on!


:laugh2: Careful....For the conspiracy part of the crime, they actually have to prove that Vick took some action(s) to further the crime. They don't have to prove he executed a dog or anything like that though. And the action can be something as simple as buying a dog and/or testing (or "rolling") it, or buying supplies/food, etc. That's why those actions he took were listed in the indictment.

But if all the prosecution can prove is that Vick "knew about it," not guilty.

[5Stars]

Not really. Of course, hes not going to testify but his lawyers will imply that he was just funding a kennal and the other guys were doing the bad stuff to make a little coin on the side...without his knowledge.

And who's to say Vick wont pay them off to say its true and take the rap Greg Anderson style (ala Barry Bonds)?


Oh...there will be all kinds of accusations going on in this mess, no doubt about it. And if Vick has to make someone else take the fall for this, then he's even a worse person for doing so. Also, if someone accepts money to take the fall, that tells you what kind of crowd that Vick hangs with.

[5Stars]

For the conspiracy part of the crime, they actually have to prove that Vick took some action(s) to further the crime. They don't have to prove he executed a dog or anything like that though. And the action can be something as simple as buying a dog and/or testing (or "rolling") it, or buying supplies/food, etc. That's why those actions he took were listed in the indictment.

But if all the prosecution can prove is that Vick "knew about it," not guilty.


Got it! Thanks, peplaw! Makes sense to me!

[ThreeSportStar80]

Did you get to see Vick? Did you shine his shoes?

:confused:


What are you talking about...:rolleyes:

[5Stars]

What are you talking about...:rolleyes:


Take a guess!


:laugh2:

[03EBZ06]

It will be interesting to see what other evidences the prosecutors have at their disposal, I can't see them pursueing Vick with only CWs, there has to be other corraborating evidences to support CWs testimony.

ESPN is reporting that there WILL be additional charges filed against Vick.

[tyke1doe]

For the conspiracy part of the crime, they actually have to prove that Vick took some action(s) to further the crime. They don't have to prove he executed a dog or anything like that though. And the action can be something as simple as buying a dog and/or testing (or "rolling") it, or buying supplies/food, etc. That's why those actions he took were listed in the indictment.

But if all the prosecution can prove is that Vick "knew about it," not guilty.

But Vick "knowing about it" is probably enough to end his football career.

[tyke1doe]

It will be interesting what other evidences the prosecutors have at their disposal, I can't see them pursueing Vick with only CWs, there has to be other corraborating evidences to suport CWs testimony.

Agreed. I suspect they have cell phone records. If I recall correctly, cell phone tower transmissions can be produced. Say Vick was alleged to be in New Jersey and he made a call shortly after a dog fight. If you have enough of those, you have some pretty damning circumstantial evidence.

I think the feds have more than they're sharing, which is usually the case. You don't go after a big fish like Vick without stronger evidence.

[Bob Sacamano]

But Vick "knowing about it" is probably enough to end his football career.

it's enough to get him suspended for at least 8 games

[peplaw06]

But Vick "knowing about it" is probably enough to end his football career.I think they have more than that. That said, I am 95% sure that if Vick is acquitted, he will play in the NFL again.

[Bob Sacamano]

I think they have more than that. That said, I am 95% sure that if Vick is acquitted, he will play in the NFL again.

oh definitely, but I'd move the percentage up to 100%

that's if he's totally exonerated and it's been shown that he wasn't around these guys

tall task though

[superpunk]

The worse of those two news items for Vick came from Asst. U.S. Attorney Michael Gill, who told Hudson that the federal government will be filing a "superceding indictment" by the end of next month. Although legal experts can disagree on what might come in the new indictment, the federal prosecutors in Richmond typically add charges in superceding indictments. It is unlikely they will eliminate charges.
The message from the government prosecutors to Vick and his three co-defendants (Purnell Peace, Quanis Phillips, and Tony Taylor) was not subtle. Here's the message: We've already charged you with serious crimes. You might want to consider a guilty plea. We are going to file more charges next month. That gives you a few weeks to think about the guilty plea. If you come and talk to us about pleading guilty and testifying for us, there will be no more charges against you. If you do not, the charges and the potential punishment will grow quickly.


Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Any professional liars care to speculate?

[peplaw06]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Any professional liars care to speculate?They're going to charge him with international war crimes... One of the breeds of dogs he was fighting originated in Spain. International trade violations, then you throw in making breeds from different countries fight each other. International war crimes.

I heard someone (who will go unnamed) is setting up the gallows as we speak.

Clearly this is just the speculation of a professional liar, so do with this information what you will.

[StanleySpadowski]

For the conspiracy part of the crime, they actually have to prove that Vick took some action(s) to further the crime. They don't have to prove he executed a dog or anything like that though. And the action can be something as simple as buying a dog and/or testing (or "rolling") it, or buying supplies/food, etc. That's why those actions he took were listed in the indictment.

But if all the prosecution can prove is that Vick "knew about it," not guilty.


I don't want to get in a legal argument with you, however "knew about it" would be enough for a conviction based solely on the irrefutable evidence that we know; Vick was the owner of the property. A public records deed transfer search shows us that.

Knowingly allowing illegal activity that violates the commerce clause on his property would hold up under the conspiracy charge in the indictment.

[silverbear]

In your opinion vintage. Which don't mean squat.

Naw, I think pretty much everybody reading these threads knows you've been beat like a rented mule...

They also know, or can surmise with a fair degree of accuracy, that you got reamed in court sometime in the not too distant past... I guess Judge Judy didn't buy your story...

[peplaw06]

I don't want to get in a legal argument with you, however "knew about it" would be enough for a conviction based solely on the irrefutable evidence that we know; Vick was the owner of the property. A public records deed transfer search shows us that.

Knowingly allowing illegal activity that violates the commerce clause on his property would hold up under the conspiracy charge in the indictment.

If Vick bought the house for that purpose, then that could be enough for conviction on conspiracy charges. But that's kind of hard to prove, unless they set up the operation right away. His simply being the owner is not enough to prove conspiracy. There has to be some overt action in furtherance of the conspiracy.

And I think you're misunderstanding how the commerce clause works. The commerce clause is the means by which Congress regulates interstate dealings. They can make certain actions illegal, a la gambling across interstate lines. Those illegal activities are federally prosecuted because they were passed under the Commerce clause.

A person cannot "violate the commerce clause." A person can commit a crime that is enacted under the commerce clause, but they just commit the crime.

The only way the commerce clause is violated is by a state enacting a law that cuts into Congress's Power under the Commerce Clause.

It's a very convoluted area of the law, and there's no way I can explain the way all of it works together, at least not without boring everyone, and a little help. I've forgotten a lot about the commerce clause, but what I've stated here are the basics.

[StanleySpadowski]

If Vick bought the house for that purpose, then that could be enough for conviction on conspiracy charges. But that's kind of hard to prove, unless they set up the operation right away. His simply being the owner is not enough to prove conspiracy. There has to be some overt action in furtherance of the conspiracy.

And I think you're misunderstanding how the commerce clause works. The commerce clause is the means by which Congress regulates interstate dealings. They can make certain actions illegal, a la gambling across interstate lines. Those illegal activities are federally prosecuted because they were passed under the Commerce clause.

A person cannot "violate the commerce clause." A person can commit a crime that is enacted under the commerce clause, but they just commit the crime.

The only way the commerce clause is violated is by a state enacting a law that cuts into Congress's Power under the Commerce Clause.

It's a very convoluted area of the law, and there's no way I can explain the way all of it works together, at least not without boring everyone, and a little help. I've forgotten a lot about the commerce clause, but what I've stated here are the basics.


I used the wrong wording with "violate" but I think you knew what I meant.


The purchase of the house is a key factor. Vick's own statement that "I'm never there", if taken as factual, could easily be used to show the intent of the purchase; as a base of operation for BadNewz Kennels. That's enough for conspiracy if BadNewz is shown to have engaged in an illegal activity that Vick knew about.

[peplaw06]

The purchase of the house is a key factor. Vick's own statement that "I'm never there", if taken as factual, could easily be used to show the intent of the purchase; as a base of operation for BadNewz Kennels. That's enough for conspiracy if BadNewz is shown to have engaged in an illegal activity that Vick knew about.
His saying, "I'm never there," could just as easily be evidence that he bought the house for his cousin. Then he could say his cousin set up the operation.

Bottom line, if you want to look solely at the purchase of the house as evidence of the conspiracy, the prosecution will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Vick bought the house with the intent of using it to stage the dogfighting operation, and that the conspiracy had been created before that was done.

You can't just say "Vick knew about the operation." That's just not enough. For conspiracy, you have to prove a common plan, and an overt action by each member of the conspiracy.

Him being the owner of the house alone will not be enough.

Probably a moot point, because the feds have more information, and if they can prove the allegations in the indictment, they have overt actions on Vick. But this "irrefutable evidence" -- that he is listed on the deed as the owner of the property -- alone will not do it.

[BlueStar22]

Memo to ESPN: There are 32 TEAMS IN TRAINING CAMP. Your entire 30 minute NFL Live show does NOT have to be about Micheal Vick! I hope the NFL Network isn't all Vick all the time.

[Garland powerplay]

That eyewitness on outside the lines a couple weeks ago is going to nuke them.

[tyke1doe]

His saying, "I'm never there," could just as easily be evidence that he bought the house for his cousin. Then he could say his cousin set up the operation.

Bottom line, if you want to look solely at the purchase of the house as evidence of the conspiracy, the prosecution will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Vick bought the house with the intent of using it to stage the dogfighting operation, and that the conspiracy had been created before that was done.

You can't just say "Vick knew about the operation." That's just not enough. For conspiracy, you have to prove a common plan, and an overt action by each member of the conspiracy.

Him being the owner of the house alone will not be enough.

Probably a moot point, because the feds have more information, and if they can prove the allegations in the indictment, they have overt actions on Vick. But this "irrefutable evidence" -- that he is listed on the deed as the owner of the property -- alone will not do it.

Good explanation, counselor. :)

[tyke1doe]

double post. :(

[Kangaroo]

Whats the over under on some of the lesser names rolling over and coping a plea and testifying against Vick

[silverbear]

Memo to ESPN: There are 32 TEAMS IN TRAINING CAMP. Your entire 30 minute NFL Live show does NOT have to be about Micheal Vick! I hope the NFL Network isn't all Vick all the time.

I dunno, I find it much more entertaining than all TO all the time...