Bonds Did It

[Hostile]

Thank goodness it's over.

[big dog cowboy]

Who cares?

Thank God it's over.

[dargonking999]

Umm Bonds did what exactly?

;)

[Nav22]

Woo hoo! You're the man, Barry!

(Actually I hate baseball with a passion, and am thrilled that their most hallowed record is now a complete sham)

[Hostile]

I watched Hank break Babe's record in 1974. I watched this tonight. I hope I live long enough to see A-rod break this one. No matter what you think of the guy, he's one hell of a ball player.

[CATCH17]

Man if my boy Ken Griffey wouldve stayed healthy hed be sittin on 750+ easy

[Dallas]

(Actually I hate baseball with a passion, and am thrilled that their most hallowed record is now a complete sham)


Rediculous isn't it?


I to am glad it's over. What a joke. I used to love Baseball growing up as a kid. This is just one of the many many reasons why I stopped following MLB anymore.

[Dallas]

Man if my boy Ken Griffey wouldve stayed healthy hed be sittin on 750+ easy

Ken should have NEVER left Seattle. Ever ever ever.....

[smarta5150]

Man if my boy Ken Griffey wouldve stayed healthy hed be sittin on 750+ easy

I am with you.

What a shame he became Mr Glass :mad:

[smarta5150]

Ken should have NEVER left Seattle. Ever ever ever.....

I am a Mariner fan because of him.

[Hostile]

Man if my boy Ken Griffey wouldve stayed healthy hed be sittin on 750+ easyIf Willie Mays hadn't been hitting in the old Candlestick park he'd have had 800. Hank Aaron once said that park robbed Willie of 150 Home runs.

[Rampage]

If Willie Mays hadn't been hitting in the old Candlestick park he'd have had 800. Hank Aaron once said that park robbed Willie of 150 Home runs.
you could also make that arguement for babe ruth.

[Hostile]

you could also make that arguement for babe ruth.
You have to wonder how many Babe could hit in today's ballparks.

Imagine how many Ted Williams might have hit if he had not left baseball for WWII and the Korean War.

[Big Dakota]

The funny thing to me is the commish wasn't there. :lmao: This thing is a total sham, as you guys have said. I got more excited watching Chad Johnson beat a horse in a race when he had a 3/4 head start. Poor MLB, drug through the mud in what should be one of their finest hours. Then people gripe about the NFL's new commish and say he's being overzealous. When is a good time to step in and head of trouble? Before things get out of hand, or after all is said and done like MLB is trying to do with it's roid "investigation"? Too little too late Bud. Too bad MLB didn't have a judge Landis or a Roger Goodell. The best MLB can to now is try and prove Baroid did what they think he did and besmirch his name and his records, or maybe even take away his records and ban him from the hall. What a shame this whole thing is when they could have just cleaned it up 25-30 years ago.

[Nav22]

Baseball's crap anyways. Football, basketball, and soccer are all infinitely more exciting to watch.

[Yeagermeister]

Thank goodness it's over.

I agree......no he can go away

[BrAinPaiNt]

I am just glad it is over as I do not like baseball nor Barry Bonds and his juiced stats.

I am glad it happened now instead of when the Football season gets underway.

It is bad enough watching sportscenter in the morning to get a general idea of how things are going in the world of sports...but it sucks when most of it is baseball news. I love when the NFL season rolls around so i can see some info I want to see. Hate when baseball cuts into it and it would have if Bonds did not get it now.

[sago1]

I used to love baseball when I was much younger and actually went to the games. Watching a baseball game in person is very different and brings back memories of when we were young and actually were playing the game.

Unfortunately baseball is not interesting to watch on TV and the steriod problem is comething that should have been addressed/resolve by Selig 2 or 3years ago. Our Commish is doing the right thing now rather then trying to ignore it or hide form it. Look how right now most aren't talking about Michael Vick cause he's out of the public eye when he was ordered not to attend the Falcons' TC. If you were there, the media would be all over it and it would be on the news every night.

Baseball needs the same kind of drug/steriod program as we have with teeth in it. The Bonds problem probalby would have been resolved. BTW: I know Hank Aaron didn't attend the game & I thought he'd have nothing to say about it. But while turning the channel I came across the game and they had Aaron up on the baseball board congratulating Bonds, etc. Was stunned to say the least.

[CATCH17]

I am a Mariner fan because of him.

Same here.

[Hostile]

I still love baseball personally. I won't try and change anyone's mind about the game though. I'm not a soccer fan after all. That's their tactic.

[ConcordCowboy]

I feel bad for Aaron that a cheater broke his record.

As far as baseball...I used to be a fan but over the years I've just stopped watching it.

There's just something very exciting about a game when I can get up go to the bathroom...stop and get a beer and hot dog walk back to my seat, eat my hot dog...drink my beer and the same batter is still fouling off pitches.

[joseephuss]

you could also make that arguement for babe ruth.

You can? Yankee stadium has a short right porch of 314' down the line and 353' to around the bullpen. It was actually shorter when it was first built. It was 295' down the line and 350' to around the bullpen. That is where a left handed hitter would hit most of their home runs. Ruth hit them everywhere in the park, but he mostly pulled his HRs. The original Yankee stadium had a huge center field, but that park was built for Babe Ruth and left handed power hitters.

Fenway Park is the same way and Ruth spent a few years there. He then played a few years in the Polo Grounds(prior to Yankee stadium being built), which also had a short right porch.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I have been a Baseball fan since I was a kid. I to remember watching Hank break The Babe's record. I remember a great many things about baseball that were memerable to me. It was great fun as a kid to play and even to watch the Big Leagues on TV. Back then, you didn't have cable so you only saw a couple games a week. Some of the best memories of my life are about baseball. Last night, I played Video Games with my oldest boy. He's going off to College soon and he was home, which is rare these days. I knew that game was on. I don't even like Video Games but last night that's what I did. I'm happy it's over. I congradulate Bonds for breaking the record. I look forward to his retirement, I hope the day comes that sports can find a way to test for drugs effectively but most of all, I look forward to seeing somebody break Bonds record.

[joseephuss]

I don't like Bonds. Not because of steroids, but because he is a jerk. He was a jerk before steroids and is one now. I didn't like him when he was a skinny Pirate.

I can appreciate his accomplishments. Just like his jerkitude he was good before steroids and is good now. Someone mentioned Griffey's sweet swing. It looks great, but Bonds probably has a perfect swing. It is short and compact. It is an amazing accomplishment and one I didn't think I would see. Even with steroids, it is still amazing that he accumulated 756. There is a lot of skill and luck involved to hit that many to go along with the steroids. And look at how many times he walked.

Steroids taints the record. I don't care that much about it having an asterisk because baseball is the one sport that involves so much more cheating or pushing the rules than the other sports. They also have that huge non-list of unwritten rules. When a guy like Gaylord Perry brags about his spit ball and people cheer him, I just don't see too much difference in steroid use. And steroids is not as bad as cocaine or other illicit drug. The purpose is to play their best. That is one plus from a bad thing.

If Bonds was a nice guy I don't think this issue is quite as big as it is today. It would be discussed and debated, but there is a genuine hatred and anger in some circles because it is Bonds. I think that would be there even if Bonds hit them legitimately. The guy is just unlikeable and add in steroids and it makes the situation worse.

[WoodysGirl]

Bonds Home Run King
Barry Bonds breaking Hank Aaron's all time home run record is fine by me.

I'm not upset because baseball allowed players to use steroids and helped create the problem.

I don't think Bonds is on the juice now. I do believe he used steroids in his career.

I'm also one of those who think he was a sure fire Hall of Famer before he started that stuff.

Is he a Hall of Famer now?

Great question. If Mark McGwire gets voted in, then Bonds, Sammy Sosa, and Raffy Palmeiro should all go in as well. If you let one juicer get in, then let 'em all in. If you keep one out, then keep 'em all out.

Juice or no juice, I think Bonds is one of the ten best players in MLB history. The guy is an amazing talent. He used all five tools in his career.



Newy Scruggs
www.newdawg.com
Posted at 7:01 AM

[ABQCOWBOY]

You can? Yankee stadium has a short right porch of 314' down the line and 353' to around the bullpen. It was actually shorter when it was first built. It was 295' down the line and 350' to around the bullpen. That is where a left handed hitter would hit most of their home runs. Ruth hit them everywhere in the park, but he mostly pulled his HRs. The original Yankee stadium had a huge center field, but that park was built for Babe Ruth and left handed power hitters.

Fenway Park is the same way and Ruth spent a few years there. He then played a few years in the Polo Grounds(prior to Yankee stadium being built), which also had a short right porch.

I don't know that I'd say the Polo Grounds were short, per say. Down the line is was pretty shallow but LC, C and RC were a long way.

280 Down the left field line, 447 to LCF, 480 to CF, 440 to RCF and 258 down the right field line. I mean, unless you were a dead pull hitter down the line, The Polo Grounds didn't do you any favors.

When The Babe played at the old Yankee Stadium, it was 280.58 down the Left Field line, 395 to short LCF, 415 to Straight away LF, 500 to the gap in LCF, 487 to straight away CF, 429 to the deepest part of RCF, 350 to the Gap in RCF, 344 to short RF and 294.75 down the Right Field Line. That was a pretty big park. Today, Yankee Stadium is 318 Down the LF Line, 399 to striaght away LF, 408 to straight away CF, 385 to straight away RF and 314 dow the RFL.

[CowboyJeff]

Here's why Babe is the greatest of all time:


Batting Average (.342 career):
In the Top 3 in the AL for 6 seasons.
Tenth highest career Batting Average.
Runs (2,174 career):
#1 in the AL for 8 seasons.
Third on the career Runs leader board behind Rickey Henderson and Ty Cobb.
RBIs - Runs Batted In (2,213 career):
# 1 for 6 seasons; in the Top 3 for 11 seasons.
Second only to Hank Aaron in career RBIs.
On-Base % - Percent of times a player reaches base when at bat (.474 career):
#1 in on-base % in the AL for 10 seasons.
Second only to Ted Williams in career On-Base %.
Slugging % - Total bases reached per at bat (.690 career):
#1 in the AL for 13 seasons.
Remains #1 today in career Slugging %.
OPS - On-Base Plus Slugging (1.164 career):
#1 in the AL for 13 seasons.
Remains #1 today in career OPS.
Total Bases (5,793 career):
#1 in the AL for 6 seasons; in the Top 3 for 11 seasons.
Fifth on the career Total Bases list.
Bases on Balls (2,062 career):
#1 in the AL for 11 seasons.
Third on the career Bases on Balls list.
Runs Created* (2,756 career):
#1 in the AL for 9 seasons.
Remains #1 today in the career total Runs Created.

ERA - Earned Run Average (2.28 career):

#1 in ERA in the American League (AL) in 1916.
15th overall for career ERA.Wins (65 career):

Top 3 in the AL in 2 of his 5 full seasons as a pitcher.
Won the most games of any left-handed pitcher in the Majors from 1915-17.Win/Loss% (.671 career):

12th on the list for best career win/loss percentage.Strikeouts:

Top 5 in the AL in 2 of his 5 full seasons as a pitcher.Shutouts:

#1 in the AL in 1916.
And he did this not by taking steroids, but by chowing-down on hot dogs and beer while waking up in dumpsters outside of whore houses!!!!

[joseephuss]

Bonds Home Run King
Barry Bonds breaking Hank Aaron's all time home run record is fine by me.

I'm not upset because baseball allowed players to use steroids and helped create the problem.

I don't think Bonds is on the juice now. I do believe he used steroids in his career.

I'm also one of those who think he was a sure fire Hall of Famer before he started that stuff.

Is he a Hall of Famer now?

Great question. If Mark McGwire gets voted in, then Bonds, Sammy Sosa, and Raffy Palmeiro should all go in as well. If you let one juicer get in, then let 'em all in. If you keep one out, then keep 'em all out.

Juice or no juice, I think Bonds is one of the ten best players in MLB history. The guy is an amazing talent. He used all five tools in his career.



Newy Scruggs
www.newdawg.com
Posted at 7:01 AM

He never had a great arm. A good arm, but nothing special. Sometimes that arm looked down right horrible actually.

I agree in that if they let one steroids guy in, then they should all get in if qualified. If you forget about steroids are Sosa or McGwire Hall of Famers? I think it is debatable. There are guys that you don't hesitate and say they are HoFers, but I think there is a pause with both those guys. Sosa has the edge in numbers in hits, HRs, RBIs and batting average.

[joseephuss]

Here's why Babe is the greatest of all time:

Batting Average (.342 career):
In the Top 3 in the AL for 6 seasons.
Tenth highest career Batting Average.
Runs (2,174 career):
#1 in the AL for 8 seasons.
Third on the career Runs leader board behind Rickey Henderson and Ty Cobb.
RBIs - Runs Batted In (2,213 career):
# 1 for 6 seasons; in the Top 3 for 11 seasons.
Second only to Hank Aaron in career RBIs.
On-Base % - Percent of times a player reaches base when at bat (.474 career):
#1 in on-base % in the AL for 10 seasons.
Second only to Ted Williams in career On-Base %.
Slugging % - Total bases reached per at bat (.690 career):
#1 in the AL for 13 seasons.
Remains #1 today in career Slugging %.
OPS - On-Base Plus Slugging (1.164 career):
#1 in the AL for 13 seasons.
Remains #1 today in career OPS.
Total Bases (5,793 career):
#1 in the AL for 6 seasons; in the Top 3 for 11 seasons.
Fifth on the career Total Bases list.
Bases on Balls (2,062 career):
#1 in the AL for 11 seasons.
Third on the career Bases on Balls list.
Runs Created* (2,756 career):
#1 in the AL for 9 seasons.
Remains #1 today in the career total Runs Created.


And he did this not by taking steroids, but by chowing-down on hot dogs and beer while waking up in dumpsters outside of whore houses!!!!

Babe is great. There are also things that you have to consider when you evaluate what he did.

There were fewer games played in a season. Those few extra games a year can wear a player down.

There were no night games.

There was no extensive traveling. No teams west of the Mississippi. Even by train, it was not as bad as flying to the west coast.

There were no African-American or Latin American players.

There was no pitching specialization. Pitchers threw a lot of innings. If you didn't get them early, they could get tired and you could get them late in a game. And how about late in a season when a pitcher has thrown a lot of innings?

I won't question that Babe is one of the greats. I think Willie Mays is the greatest. It is just hard to compare players when they play in different eras, different ball parks and with different teams.

[CowboyJeff]

Babe is great. There are also things that you have to consider when you evaluate what he did.

There were fewer games played in a season. Those few extra games a year can wear a player down.

There were no night games.

There was no extensive traveling. No teams west of the Mississippi. Even by train, it was not as bad as flying to the west coast.

There were no African-American or Latin American players.

There was no pitching specialization. Pitchers threw a lot of innings. If you didn't get them early, they could get tired and you could get them late in a game. And how about late in a season when a pitcher has thrown a lot of innings?

I won't question that Babe is one of the greats. I think Willie Mays is the greatest. It is just hard to compare players when they play in different eras, different ball parks and with different teams.

actually, scratch that - Josh Gibson in the negro leagues was probably the best home run hitter of all time.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Someone mentioned Griffey's sweet swing. It looks great, but Bonds probably has a perfect swing. It is short and compact.


Before 92-93 he was a line drive hitter. His swing was short and compact but it was not a HR swing. You look at his stats and they prove it out. Griffey has a natural HR swing. It is not as efficiant but because of his superior ability, IMO, it is better. Compare the two players side by side and you will see that Griffey's production was better then Bonds. In the mid 90s, you started seeing Bonds line drives leave the yard. That was simple strength. His swing really didn't change much. He was simply stronger and those balls started leaving the park because of it. You also start seeing his Stolen Base numbers decline. With Griffey, that swing is a natural long ball cut. To me, if your just talking about a guy who is going to hit dingers, there is no question, Griffey has the better swing. JMO but the numbers will bare this out, IMO, if you just look at what both players did at a young age. Take out Griffey's injury seasons and Bonds later seasons where he is suspected of juicing.

[CowboyJeff]

Before 92-93 he was a line drive hitter. His swing was short and compact but it was not a HR swing. You look at his stats and they prove it out. Griffey has a natural HR swing. It is not as efficiant but because of his superior ability, IMO, it is better. Compare the two players side by side and you will see that Griffey's production was better then Bonds. In the mid 90s, you started seeing Bonds line drives leave the yard. That was simple strength. His swing really didn't change much. He was simply stronger and those balls started leaving the park because of it. You also start seeing his Stolen Base numbers decline. With Griffey, that swing is a natural long ball cut. To me, if your just talking about a guy who is going to hit dingers, there is no question, Griffey has the better swing. JMO but the numbers will bare this out, IMO, if you just look at what both players did at a young age. Take out Griffey's injury seasons and Bonds later seasons where he is suspected of juicing.

Hmmm....I better start taking some of that "flakseed oil." ;)

[joseephuss]

actually, scratch that - Josh Gibson in the negro leagues was probably the best home run hitter of all time.

I think he should get consideration. It would have been great if he and Ruth could have played in the same league. While Ruth did not get to face the great players of the Negro Leagues, Gibson did not get to face the great players of the American League or the National League.

[CowboyJeff]

I think he should get consideration. It would have been great if he and Ruth could have played in the same league. While Ruth did not get to face the great players of the Negro Leagues, Gibson did not get to face the great players of the American League or the National League.

anyone know who hit the longest home run in Yankee Stadium history? (no Bonds-ing)

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think he should get consideration. It would have been great if he and Ruth could have played in the same league. While Ruth did not get to face the great players of the Negro Leagues, Gibson did not get to face the great players of the American League or the National League.


This is a very good point. In the Major's, there were no bad ball players. Only better ones. Gibson played against a lot of teams that were not nearly as talented. This is not to say that he wasnt' a great player because clearly he was. He also saw some very good players in his time in the Negro leages. He faced guys like Satchel Page, Judy Johnson, John Henry Lloyd, Willie Foster, just to name a few. However, we will never know who was better only because the compatition was not he same between both leagues. Unfortunate really.

[joseephuss]

anyone know who hit the longest home run in Yankee Stadium history? (no Bonds-ing)

I doubt if anyone truly knows. Maybe Mickey Mantle or Reggie Jackson.

[WoodysGirl]

N.Y. fan emerges from bleacher bedlam holding lucky ball

By JASON DEAREN, Associated Press Writer
August 8, 2007

WATCH VIDEO: Barry Bonds' home run number 756 hit Aug. 7 in San Francisco. (Getty)




SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- With the crack of the bat a brief stillness settled over the right-center field bleachers at AT&T Park as Barry Bonds' record-breaking homer rocketed toward the crowd.

Then the scrum was on.

As the specially marked baseball landed a few rows up in the fifth inning Tuesday night, dozens of fans wrestled for it and the promise of riches it carried. Suddenly, the metal bleachers vibrated with energy. Grunts, cheers and the cries of frightened children broke the silence as parents sought to shield their youngsters from the chaos.

In the middle of it all was 22-year-old New Yorker Matt Murphy, who emerged from beneath the pile holding the ball Bonds hit for career home run No. 756. His face was bloodied and his clothes stretched and torn from his battle in the bleachers.

A team of San Francisco police officers moved in, extracted Murphy from the crowd, and quickly led him through a tunnel and into a secure room.

As he high-fived other fans, Murphy, wearing a New York Mets jersey and cap, slid the ball into the back pocket of his plaid Bermuda shorts.

Reporters screamed questions, but all he managed to say was, "I'm Matt Murphy from Queens, N.Y."

"I just hope he didn't get hurt," Bonds said after the game, which the Giants lost 8-6 to the Washington Nationals. He said he had no interest in getting the ball back for himself.

"I don't want the ball," Bonds said. "I've never believed a home run ball belonged to the player. If he caught it, it's his."

Murphy and a friend were en route to Australia and in San Francisco for a one-day layover, a Giants spokesman said. They purchased tickets just before the game.

He and the friend, dressed in New York Yankees regalia, were razzed by nearby Giants fans. "Hey, this isn't New York!" one shouted. Murphy and his friend just laughed it off before settling into their seats.

Murphy declined to make himself available to the media.

Baseball memorabilia experts have pegged the ball's value at $400,000 to $500,000. That's well below the $3.3 million fetched by Mark McGwire's 70th home run ball in 1998.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I doubt if anyone truly knows. Maybe Mickey Mantle or Reggie Jackson.


There is a story about Josh Gibson hitting one out of Yankee Stadium but it can not be substantiated. It has been researched and there is no record of a HR that was hit and left the park. The longest recoreded HR by Josh Gibson, in Yankee Stadium is 430 feet. Some say it was Micky Mantle who hit one off the Facade on the roof in right field. It's said that the ball was still rising when it hit. Estimated distance is something like 620 feet. However, I think it might have been Jimmie Foxx who hit the longest shot in Yankee Stadium. He too hit a ball of the facade on the roof of Yankee Stadium but he hit his to Left Field as opposed to Right Field. Everybody knows that Left Field was much deeper in those days. It is said that he hit his just 3 feet shy of leaving the park, according to reports filed of the Home Run.

Who knows?

[gazmc_06]

all hail Barry, I am a huge Barry fan and very happy to see him get this record...congrats Barry.

[Bob Sacamano]

good

now I hope he chokes to death

[Big Dakota]

good

now I hope he chokes to death


Can we get a few festering boils first??:D

[locked&loaded]

i dont know if it was mentioned but what does everyone things about the so called mechanical device in his elbow pad.

[CowboyJeff]

I doubt if anyone truly knows. Maybe Mickey Mantle or Reggie Jackson.

Per the tour director of the Yankee Stadium tour I took back in May 2007, it was Josh Gibson. He said it was a mammoth shot that left the stadium. Truth? Fiction? Who knows.....

[joseephuss]

i dont know if it was mentioned but what does everyone things about the so called mechanical device in his elbow pad.

I haven't heard of a mechanical device in his elbow pad.

I know they talk about the armor he wears and how it can be an unfair advantage for him or any player that puts on so much padding. I thought MLB was looking at changing the rules that limited how much protection they could wear. It doesn't seem to have changed most players attire.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Per the tour director of the Yankee Stadium tour I took back in May 2007, it was Josh Gibson. He said it was a mammoth shot that left the stadium. Truth? Fiction? Who knows.....


No record of it in the history books. Could of happened but you would figure that there would be some record of something like that somewhere. Nothing ever reported on it. Who knows?

[CowboyJeff]

No record of it in the history books. Could of happened but you would figure that there would be some record of something like that somewhere. Nothing ever reported on it. Who knows?

If it's true, I wonder if it wasn't properly documented for a reason. Think about it: Here's a black baseball player in the 1930s hitting a baseball farther than any white baseball player. That's pretty much heresy back then.

[locked&loaded]

I haven't heard of a mechanical device in his elbow pad.

I know they talk about the armor he wears and how it can be an unfair advantage for him or any player that puts on so much padding. I thought MLB was looking at changing the rules that limited how much protection they could wear. It doesn't seem to have changed most players attire.


http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003621797

[Rampage]

he just hit 757 tonight

[StanleySpadowski]

I'm really mixed about this record. I'm a baseball fan first before any other sport.

I knew Barry Bonds in the early 90s and can tell you the person I knew then isn't he one portryayed in the media today but can also tell you that he's changed.


Once upon a time, ball players were like sailors, a girl in every port. They played ball, answered the media questions then went about their lives. Bonds saw this growing up in the game. If Bobby walked into a bar, everybody there lined up to buy him a drink and when he left with a girl, everyone went home and bragged that they drank with a ball player. Barry walks into a bar and everyone's looking for an autograph they can sell on ebay. If he leaves with a girl, it's in the paper the next morning complete with pictures thanks to cell phone cameras.

Barry is much more jaded today.


We all know that Bonds took steroids. It's part of grand jury testimony that's been leaked. He claims it was unknowingly but he took them none the less.


The important question that's never been asked is whether Bonds knowingly took HGH. It's not normal for someone to gain three shoe sizes in their thirties, nor is it normal to gain 7/8 in hat size. 'Roids doesn't account for that.

The biggest stain on Bonds is inside the numbers though. His HR/AB increased by an incredible 57% after he turned 35. Aaron's dropped by 48% by comparison.

The best way to compare HR hitters is by comparing them to the "average" for their eras. Ruth is a God by that comparision. He once hit more HRs than any other team in the league.

The pro-Aaron argument is the insane pitching of his era. Many point to Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA before the mound was raised but few remember that sub 2.00 ERAs weren't the exception.






*** The longest official HR ever at Yankee Stadium was one Mantle put off the facade on the upper deck that was estimated at over 540'. There's been a rumor that Bob Muesel hit one out of the stadium in BP but that's never been substantiated.

[joseephuss]

If it's true, I wonder if it wasn't properly documented for a reason. Think about it: Here's a black baseball player in the 1930s hitting a baseball farther than any white baseball player. That's pretty much heresy back then.

That theory is possible. It would not surprise me if that were true.

I haver heard the story of Gibson's HR in Yankee Stadium before. There are several stories out there of monster home runs in Yankee Stadium and other stadiums, but most are just stories. For some reason many of these home runs are not officially recorded. Maybe a case of poor record keeping. Gibson hit so many mamouth home runs that people may not have thought it was important to record each one.

[joseephuss]

I'm really mixed about this record. I'm a baseball fan first before any other sport.

I knew Barry Bonds in the early 90s and can tell you the person I knew then isn't he one portryayed in the media today but can also tell you that he's changed.


Once upon a time, ball players were like sailors, a girl in every port. They played ball, answered the media questions then went about their lives. Bonds saw this growing up in the game. If Bobby walked into a bar, everybody there lined up to buy him a drink and when he left with a girl, everyone went home and bragged that they drank with a ball player. Barry walks into a bar and everyone's looking for an autograph they can sell on ebay. If he leaves with a girl, it's in the paper the next morning complete with pictures thanks to cell phone cameras.

Barry is much more jaded today.


We all know that Bonds took steroids. It's part of grand jury testimony that's been leaked. He claims it was unknowingly but he took them none the less.


The important question that's never been asked is whether Bonds knowingly took HGH. It's not normal for someone to gain three shoe sizes in their thirties, nor is it normal to gain 7/8 in hat size. 'Roids doesn't account for that.

The biggest stain on Bonds is inside the numbers though. His HR/AB increased by an incredible 57% after he turned 35. Aaron's dropped by 48% by comparison.

The best way to compare HR hitters is by comparing them to the "average" for their eras. Ruth is a God by that comparision. He once hit more HRs than any other team in the league.

The pro-Aaron argument is the insane pitching of his era. Many point to Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA before the mound was raised but few remember that sub 2.00 ERAs weren't the exception.






*** The longest official HR ever at Yankee Stadium was one Mantle put off the facade on the upper deck that was estimated at over 540'. There's been a rumor that Bob Muesel hit one out of the stadium in BP but that's never been substantiated.

The amount of times he is walked and walked intentionally plays a part in his HR to AB ratio. A walk does not count as an At Bat. It does however give him a clue as to how the pitcher is throwing that day, gives him a read on his throwing motion, the speed on the fast ball, the break on his breaking pitches and how he is being pitched. Bonds walked so much during his big HR total seasons that his official At Bats is less than 500 each season.

His walks don't explain it all. There is obviously a performance enhancing factor, but the walks do play a part in the stats.


Did you mean before the pitching mound was lowered when talking about Gibson? The higher the mound, the better for the pitcher. It was lowered in 1968 from 15" to 10" and has been at that height since.

[WoodysGirl]

PFT slays me sometimes

HITTING THE NFL PAUSE BUTTON
We don't follow baseball and pay little or no attention to it, but we had to stop for a second to share this picture we received of the Barry Bonds (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm#)' rookie card.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/BondsRookie.jpg

We have no idea who made it, and we suspect that it's one of those things that will migrate on the web as rampantly as that picture of a dog trying to bite Mike Vick in the *** as he runs out of bounds.

Still, we laughed our ***es off over this one.

[03EBZ06]

he just hit 757 tonight
If he plays next year, and that is a big if, He'll surpass 800 HRs.

[Rampage]

man! he just hit 758!

[ABQCOWBOY]

If it's true, I wonder if it wasn't properly documented for a reason. Think about it: Here's a black baseball player in the 1930s hitting a baseball farther than any white baseball player. That's pretty much heresy back then.


Well, I read an article from a guy who looked into it. He looked at the history books for both MLB and NLB. According to the writter, he looked at the local papers in NY of the times, the papers for both teams Pittsburgh and Baltimore (the two teams playing) and even the home town papers for Gibson and he claims that there is no report of the incident. I do think that you have a point worth considering but without any cooberating documentation, I don't think that it can be considered as valid even if it did happen.

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to see it, did it really fall?

I don't know. That's a question for a much better man then I.

[HopeCowboyFan]

Before 92-93 he was a line drive hitter. His swing was short and compact but it was not a HR swing. You look at his stats and they prove it out. Griffey has a natural HR swing. It is not as efficiant but because of his superior ability, IMO, it is better. Compare the two players side by side and you will see that Griffey's production was better then Bonds. In the mid 90s, you started seeing Bonds line drives leave the yard. That was simple strength. His swing really didn't change much. He was simply stronger and those balls started leaving the park because of it. You also start seeing his Stolen Base numbers decline. With Griffey, that swing is a natural long ball cut. To me, if your just talking about a guy who is going to hit dingers, there is no question, Griffey has the better swing. JMO but the numbers will bare this out, IMO, if you just look at what both players did at a young age. Take out Griffey's injury seasons and Bonds later seasons where he is suspected of juicing.


Bonds has won 7 MVP's, back as far as 1990 and 1992. How many does Griffey have?

Pull back the one "73" home run season his stats mirror Hank Aarons. Bonds never hit more than 50 in a season other than the 73 season. Aaron also never hit 50 and played in the "launching pad" most of his career. Bonds also played in the old Vet and Candlestick early in career. Both Home run killing parks.

Griffey's injuries set him back, In 1989/1990 I predicted Griffey was going to break the record. His health robbed him that chance.

A-rod and steroids? Canseco was laughed at a few years ago on his comments and has been vindicated today. He says Arod is on roids, look at him today. He has to be 30-40 pounds heavier than when he came up. Why do he and Cleamens avoid the scrutiny?

Because Bonds is a jerk and broke all the records. The public and MLB are passively enjoying selectively deciding "who was guilty" - JMO

Bonds is the best player of his era. I'll let God figure out who the good guys are.

Signed,
Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson and Ty Cobb

[HopeCowboyFan]

The amount of times he is walked and walked intentionally plays a part in his HR to AB ratio. A walk does not count as an At Bat. It does however give him a clue as to how the pitcher is throwing that day, gives him a read on his throwing motion, the speed on the fast ball, the break on his breaking pitches and how he is being pitched. Bonds walked so much during his big HR total seasons that his official At Bats is less than 500 each season.

His walks don't explain it all. There is obviously a performance enhancing factor, but the walks do play a part in the stats.


Did you mean before the pitching mound was lowered when talking about Gibson? The higher the mound, the better for the pitcher. It was lowered in 1968 from 15" to 10" and has been at that height since.


Bingo- Bonds was so dominant they just walked him. I question the stat that Aaron had more home runs per at bat than Aaron at 35.

Fact is Bonds has hit more home runs with less than 3,000 at bats than Aaron did. Aaron hit a lot of home runs 35+ too....

Ruth, Aaron, Bonds are the 3 greatest HR hitters to have ever played in the past 100 years. Mays may be the guy who would be in that group in a different ballpark....

[HopeCowboyFan]

Fascinating Bonds versus Aaron Stats!

Bonds career 758 HR's on 9784 AB's or 1 per 12.91 AB's
Aaron career 755 HR's on 12,364 AB's or 1 per 16.38 AB's

Aaron hit more home runs age 35-39 than any other 5 year span in career. 203 - 140,202,168 first 3 5 year spans. Never getting below 1 in 13 at bats until age 35.

Bonds hit 247 age 35-39 following 189 and 157. Note in 1994 and 1995 Bonds was homering in every 11th or 10th at bats. He was clouting mega homers pre steroid era.

Bonds has 2544 career walks to Aarons 1405

Bonds has 100 career home runs in 40's. Aaron had 42 and dropped off and out faster. 43 year old Bonds is still homering once every 11 at bats, a fete Aaron bested ONLY TWICE in his career.

Other than 73 season Bonds has never hit more than 46 in a season

16
25
24
19
33
25
34
46
37
33
42
40
37
34
49
73
46
45
45
5
26
24

Aaron never hit more than 47

13
27
26
44
30
39
40
34
45
44
24
32
44
39
29
44
38
47
34
40
20
12
10


Looking at the facts - Bonds eclipsed Aaron in his 40's production. Not the "steroid era" 35-39 time frame which was also Aarons best power years.....VERY SIMILAR CAREERS STAT WISE

[HopeCowboyFan]

Interesting Bonds twist -

I backed his steroid era homers per at bat to more reasonable trendage and he's still at 720 today.....

playing against his pitching peers of era also guilty by association.

Again Aaron had his best HR per at bat of career at age 39 and second best at age 37.