Suicide rate in Army at a 26-year high

[BrAinPaiNt]

:( LINK:( (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070816/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/army_suicides)



By PAULINE JELINEK, Associated Press Writer 47 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Ninety-nine U.S. soldiers killed themselves last year, the highest rate of suicide in the Army in 26 years, a new report says.

More than one out of four soldiers who committed suicide did so while serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, according to a report scheduled to be released Thursday. Iraq was the most common deployment location for U.S. soldiers who either attempted suicide or committed suicide.

The report, which The Associated Press obtained ahead of its public release, said the 99 confirmed suicides among active duty soldiers compared to 88 in 2005 and was the highest raw number since the 102 suicides reported in 1991, the year of the Persian Gulf War, when there were more soldiers on active duty.

Investigations are still pending on two other deaths and if they are confirmed as suicides, the number for last year would be 101 instead of 99.

In a half million-person Army, last year's suicide toll translates to a rate of 17.3 per 100,000, the highest in the past 26 years, officials report. The rate has fluctuated over those years, with the low being 9.1 per 100,000 in 2001.

Failed personal relationships, legal and financial problems and the stress of their jobs were factors motivating the soldiers to commit suicide, according to the report. It also found a significant relationship between suicide attempts and the number of days deployed in Iraq, Afghanistan or nearby countries where troops were participating in the war effort.

There was "limited evidence" to back the suspicion that repeated deployments are putting more people at risk for suicide, the report said. With the Army stretched thin by years of fighting the two wars, the Pentagon has had to extend normal tours of duty this year to 15 months from 12 and has sent some troops back to the wars several times.

The 99 suicides included 28 soldiers deployed to the Iraq and Afghan campaigns. About twice as many women serving in the wars committed suicide as did women not sent to war, the report said.

The Defense Manpower Data Center, which collects data for the Pentagon, said in late May that 107 suicides had been recorded in the Iraq campaign since its start in March of 2003.

Preliminary numbers for the first half of 2007 indicate the number of suicides could decline across the service but increase among troops serving in the wars, officials said.

The increases for 2006 came as Army officials worked to set up a number new programs and strengthen old ones for providing mental health care to a force strained by the longer-than-expected conflict in Iraq and the global counterterrorism war entering its sixth year.

In a flurry of studies in recent months, officials found that system that might have been adequate for a peacetime military has been overwhelmed by troops coming home from the wars.

Some troop surveys in Iraq have shown that 20 percent of Army soldiers have signs and symptoms of post-traumatic stress, which can cause flashbacks of traumatic combat experiences and other severe reactions. About 35 percent of soldiers are seeking some kind of mental health treatment a year after returning home under a program that screens returning troops for physical and mental health, officials have said.

The Army has sent medical teams annually to the battlefront in Iraq to survey troops, health care providers and chaplains about health, morale and other issues. It has revised training programs, bolstered suicide prevention, is adding some 25 percent more psychiatrists and other mental health professionals to its staff and is in the midst of an extensive program to teach all soldiers how to recognize mental health problems in themselves and their comrades — and encourage them to seek help.

The Army also has been working to stem the stigma associated with getting therapy for mental problems, after officials found that troops are avoiding counseling out of fear it could harm their careers.

[dal0789]

Someone hung themsleves during my BCT, sad stuff cause it had only been one night into it

[zrinkill]

In 2006, the overall suicide rate for the United States was 13.4 per 100,000 people. It was 21.1 per 100,000 people for all men aged 17 to 45, compared to a rate of 17.8 for men in the Army.


I think this says something about the adult men in our society as a whole ..... not just those in the Army, since there is a smaller suicide rate for those in the Army.

In other words this is not an Army caused problem.

[iceberg]

In 2006, the overall suicide rate for the United States was 13.4 per 100,000 people. It was 21.1 per 100,000 people for all men aged 17 to 45, compared to a rate of 17.8 for men in the Army.


I think this says something about the adult men in our society as a whole ..... not just those in the Army, since there is a smaller suicide rate for those in the Army.

In other words this is not an Army caused problem.

wow and good point, zrin. i didn't even think to look at national averages. interesting that people will "cherry pick" stats to present a story they feel needs to be told.

[Sasquatch]

In 2006, the overall suicide rate for the United States was 13.4 per 100,000 people. It was 21.1 per 100,000 people for all men aged 17 to 45, compared to a rate of 17.8 for men in the Army.


I think this says something about the adult men in our society as a whole ..... not just those in the Army, since there is a smaller suicide rate for those in the Army.

In other words this is not an Army caused problem.

Good point but isn't the real question whether the increased suicide rate in the army, which the author is linking to the Iraq war, parallels similar trends in the wider population? In other words, we need to see a progression of civilian suicide rates over time.

[iceberg]

Good point but isn't the real question whether the increased suicide rate in the army, which the author is linking to the Iraq war, parallels similar trends in the wider population? In other words, we need to see a progression of civilian suicide rates over time.

like seeing a progression of "hot years" change and then never address that again?

[ABQCOWBOY]

like seeing a progression of "hot years" change and then never address that again?

Or, simply looking at temperatures in the intercontinental US over certain periods of time and deducing that temperatures are not rising without ever considering the temperatures in other hemispheres and what they are doing.

[Sasquatch]

Or, simply looking at temperatures in the intercontinental us over certain periods of time and deducing that temperatures are not rising without ever considering the temperatures in other hemispheres and what they are doing.

Is Iceberg doing that weird bulldog thing of his again? Maybe I should take him off my ignore list so others don't have to respond on my behalf. But after the exchange with VA Cowboy, I figured that's where he belonged.

Anyway, thanks ABQ. You are correct in that the chart I provided was an aggregate of global data taken from multiple sources.

[iceberg]

Is Iceberg doing that weird bulldog thing of his again? Maybe I should take him off my ignore list so others don't have to respond on my behalf. But after the exchange with VA Cowboy, I figured that's where he belonged.

Anyway, thanks ABQ. You are correct in that the chart I provided was an aggregate of global data taken from multiple sources.

funny. i wasn't on your IGNORE list until you popped off and told me and zrin to keep things on topic and then YOU go and post some article that says 11 of the last 12 hottest years have been in the last 11 years IN THE VERY ARTICLE that refutes that with a bug in NASA data.

it wasn't until you quit responding to me that i referred to myself as a "bulldog" so i don't buy the garbage you're selling, sas.

i'm smelling some untruths here by someone who won't even back up the things they say.

does make me wonder know if you're the same sasquach that was on my board for awhile and made up stuff left and right and just stop replying when caught in a catch 22.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Data is data. The issue is usually how data is represented that creates issues. I guess what I'm saying is that there are always two sides to everything.

[iceberg]

Data is data. The issue is usually how data is represented that creates issues. I guess what I'm saying is that there are always two sides to everything.

i agree with that 100%. typically we do interpret the data and come to conclusions, right or wrong. i try to never pin myself as an "it can only be like this" scenario but it may not always come across like that.

no one can doubt for example, it's getting hotter. i used to wear a jacket going to school in 1982. now in the fall i don't even put on a windbreaker. then again it was a drama lettermans jacket and i was pretty proud of it. :)

but we don't know enough after that to say for sure man is the sole reason for it. this is where i break off the "global warming" parade and think they're just "selling the drama".

as for this article, yea i took it from a military pov until zrin made his comment out it still being less than the national average.

businessman fails and loses millions. can be a tad depressing, yes.
soldier has to go back to the line where they've seen hidious things to have to deal with - sure it would suck and push people.

but if the national average is 21 per 1000 and the military is up to 4 points lower than that, again on it's own it doesn't say much. even if the military is "up". new recruits? combat vets? letting more gays in and they don't like it?

what's the suicide rate of dentists? lawyers? parking lot attendants? WWE vets?

you take a slice and look at it all you get is that slice and it alone can be made to mean anything. in this regard it seems it's meant to say "bad war cause it makes our military men kill themselves" - or something like that.

maybe i'm wrong in that but why else would you faktion this off and make it stand alone vs. as part of an overall picture?

unless you *want* it to say a specific message so you hide the rest.

then when people "ask" about the rest or find it on their own, they call the original "agenda" into question and we all get fun debates out of it. : )

[ABQCOWBOY]

i agree with that 100%. typically we do interpret the data and come to conclusions, right or wrong. i try to never pin myself as an "it can only be like this" scenario but it may not always come across like that.

no one can doubt for example, it's getting hotter. i used to wear a jacket going to school in 1982. now in the fall i don't even put on a windbreaker. then again it was a drama lettermans jacket and i was pretty proud of it. :)

but we don't know enough after that to say for sure man is the sole reason for it. this is where i break off the "global warming" parade and think they're just "selling the drama".

as for this article, yea i took it from a military pov until zrin made his comment out it still being less than the national average.

businessman fails and loses millions. can be a tad depressing, yes.
soldier has to go back to the line where they've seen hidious things to have to deal with - sure it would suck and push people.

but if the national average is 21 per 1000 and the military is up to 4 points lower than that, again on it's own it doesn't say much. even if the military is "up". new recruits? combat vets? letting more gays in and they don't like it?

what's the suicide rate of dentists? lawyers? parking lot attendants? WWE vets?

you take a slice and look at it all you get is that slice and it alone can be made to mean anything. in this regard it seems it's meant to say "bad war cause it makes our military men kill themselves" - or something like that.

maybe i'm wrong in that but why else would you faktion this off and make it stand alone vs. as part of an overall picture?

unless you *want* it to say a specific message so you hide the rest.

then when people "ask" about the rest or find it on their own, they call the original "agenda" into question and we all get fun debates out of it. : )


The unattractive, ugly truth of this is probably that people under extreme pressure, such as combat, break. It has always happened and it will always happen. When faced with those kinds of pressures, a certain amount of people are going to snape. That's the reality. Not very enjoyable to consider but the truth none the less. These are casualties of war and they are present in every war. The longer you are on station, the more of these you will see. Part of fighting a war IMO. Nothing more, nothing less. Unfortunate but true.

[zrinkill]

The unattractive, ugly truth of this is probably that people under extreme pressure, such as combat, break.

of the 99 suicides only 28 of them were deployed in Iraq and Afghan.

I would be willing to bet that 90% of those suicides were because the person thought or found out that their spouse was cheating on them. That always seemed to be the case.

[BrAinPaiNt]

of the 99 suicides only 28 of them were deployed in Iraq and Afghan.

Thank you for getting the topic back on hand.

I think we have some other threads to talk about the boring climate debate.

Thanks again.

[BrAinPaiNt]

of the 99 suicides only 28 of them were deployed in Iraq and Afghan.

I would be willing to bet that 90% of those suicides were because the person thought or found out that their spouse was cheating on them. That always seemed to be the case.

Sometimes not just cheating, but cleaning out the house and bank accounts when they are away on duty.

Know of a guy that happened to and heard of quite a few others.

[iceberg]

The unattractive, ugly truth of this is probably that people under extreme pressure, such as combat, break. It has always happened and it will always happen. When faced with those kinds of pressures, a certain amount of people are going to snape. That's the reality. Not very enjoyable to consider but the truth none the less. These are casualties of war and they are present in every war. The longer you are on station, the more of these you will see. Part of fighting a war IMO. Nothing more, nothing less. Unfortunate but true.

that's fine and i'd agree. but why then is the military average, even after it's meteroic recent rise, still less than the national average?

[iceberg]

Thank you for getting the topic back on hand.

I think we have some other threads to talk about the boring climate debate.

Thanks again.

hey - post 11 i got back on track!!!! : )

[ABQCOWBOY]

of the 99 suicides only 28 of them were deployed in Iraq and Afghan.

That is approximatly 1/3. Context that with the troop count deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan and I'd bet that the percentage is significantly greater then that of personel stationed in none combat areas. The story suggests Army but I don't know if this is, in fact, only Army or all services. There are other factors as well, such as prior duty and or hazerdous duty in other parts of the world. There are other areas of concern outside of the Middle East. The report is not clear on how many were assigned and to where. Lots of factors play in.

[zrinkill]

Personally I think that someone in the military has a better chance of coping with a suicidal depression than some poor soul who lives by them self as a civilian.

You are rarely alone for very long and you have people that are counting on you every day and will notice if you do not show up.

The pressure and anxiety is much worse ...... but you just dont have as much time to dwell and the act on it.

that being said we need better physiological help for our kids returning home ... even those that do not think they need it.

Its alot harder to readjust than most people think.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Personally I think that someone in the military has a better chance of coping with a suicidal depression than some poor soul who lives by them self as a civilian.

You are rarely alone for very long and you have people that are counting on you every day and will notice if you do not show up.

The pressure and anxiety is much worse ...... but you just dont have as much time to dwell and the act on it.

that being said we need better physiological help for our kids returning home ... even those that do not think they need it.

Its alot harder to readjust than most people think.

Agreed.

Better care both physically and psychologically are needed for the soldiers when they come home. We use them but often do not give them the treatment they deserve and have EARNED.

[ABQCOWBOY]

that's fine and i'd agree. but why then is the military average, even after it's meteroic recent rise, still less than the national average?


Off hand, I'd attribute it to training. While a certain percentage of soldiers are going to break, training does play a role in how any given person handles stress situations. In the real world, you don't receive training on how to handle pressure situations. You are all too often left to deal with them on your own. Many times, people use outside stimulants to cope. Often, these outside stimulants only server to intensify the problem because, as we all know, they are basically depresents and will manifest themselves as such once consumed. In the service, while the ability to go out and get drunk etc. is there, you can't do it every night or at every opportunity. I mean, anybody who has been in the service knows that the opportunity to get drunk or aquire drugs is there, You can't stay home and just self medicate. Basically, your kept busy and so, occupied. I think that the combination of these two things accounts for the lower percentage.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Off hand, I'd attribute it to training. While a certain percentage of soldiers are going to break, training does play a role in how any given person handles stress situations. In the real world, you don't receive training on how to handle pressure situations. You are all too often left to deal with them on your own. Many times, people use outside stimulants to cope. Often, these outside stimulants only server to intensify the problem because, as we all know, they are basically depresents and will manifest themselves as such once consumed. In the service, while the ability to go out and get drunk etc. is there, you can't do it every night or at every opportunity. I mean, anybody who has been in the service knows that the opportunity to get drunk or aquire drugs is there, You can't stay home and just self medicate. Basically, your kept busy and so, occupied. I think that the combination of these two things accounts for the lower percentage.

Oddly enough I drank WAY too much when I was in the service.
Go out all night drinking and get in the barracks, have maybe a couple of hours to rest and go out doing PT and throw up.:laugh2: (well the throwing up only happened once to me).

I don't even drink at all now. Maybe have had 6 beers total in the last 4-5 years.

However I think the drinking levels while in the military have to do with being younger, more active, hanging around a great deal of people your age in your off time and many times being in a place where there is not much else to do.

[zrinkill]

This is a good first step

Department of Defense to fund Minnesota soldier reintegration program at federal expense


The Department of Defense announced today in a personal phone call from Undersecretary of Defense David Chu to Senator Norm Coleman that the Department will waive the current 60-day “hands-off policy” on a pilot basis for Minnesota National Guard troops returning home from combat. Importantly, the Department has also decided to fund Minnesota’s Beyond the Yellow Ribbon reintegration program at federal expense. Coleman, who first informed Secretary Gates of the need to rescind this policy earlier this year, has been working to ease the reintegration process for the 2,600 Minnesotans who recently returned home from serving in Iraq.

“With thousands of Minnesota Guard soldiers back home from Iraq, it is essential they have immediate access to valuable reintegration services,” said Coleman. “I have met with members of the 1/34th who recently returned home, and they have told me time and time again that adjusting to life as a civilian alongside their comrades is one of the most important components of the redeployment process. When I first informed Secretary Gates of the problems with the hands-off policy last month, he pledged to look into the issue and address the concerns I raised. Today’s decision to officially rescind the 60-day policy and fund reintegration initiatives for Minnesota troops is the right decision, and I applaud the Secretary and Undersecretary Chu for their quick response to this concern and their commitment to our troops returning home.”

Sen. Coleman’s efforts to repeal the 60-day hands off policy were sparked by a trip to Camp Ripley last month, where he met with members of the Minnesota National Guard who had returned from Iraq in 2005. At this meeting, the troops told Coleman of the importance of the reintegration program and the problems associated with the 60-day “hands off” policy. Coleman also met with returning members of the 1/34th at Fort McCoy who expressed similar concerns. In response to these visits, Coleman called Secretary Robert Gates on July 17th to urge him to rescind the policy for returning troops and to inform him of the effects the 60-day policy is having on these soldiers and their families.

In addition to this effort, Sen. Coleman is a co-author of the Yellow Ribbon Reintegration Program Act of 2007 with Senator Amy Klobuchar. Congressman John Kline has sponsored similar legislation in the House of Representatives. The bill is modeled after Minnesota’s successful Beyond the Yellow Ribbon program that provides informational events and activities to assist National Guard soldiers, families, and community members through all phases of their deployment cycle including pre and post deployment. Such events and activities include family and marriage counseling, financial planning and education, small business planning, community outreach, and healthcare and veterans benefits education. The bill also requires reintegration activity seminars 30, 60, and 90 days after soldiers return home to assist returning troops and their families with specific challenges presented by the reintegration process.




http://www.chanvillager.com/node/1569



Now i would want to see the figures on this ...... but I think that the readjusting period is the most overlooked thing when dealing with our soldiers mental health.

At least it looks like someone else has noticed.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Oddly enough I drank WAY too much when I was in the service.
Go out all night drinking and get in the barracks, have maybe a couple of hours to rest and go out doing PT and throw up.:laugh2: (well the throwing up only happened once to me).

I don't even drink at all now. Maybe have had 6 beers total in the last 4-5 years.

However I think the drinking levels while in the military have to do with being younger, more active, hanging around a great deal of people your age in your off time and many times being in a place where there is not much else to do.


I agree. I know that I never drank more then while in the service. Having said that, I did not get drunk every night or have the freedom to just go get plowed when I wanted to. Especially while in theater. Don't get me wrong, sailors drink. In those days, it was almost manditory. However, it's not the same is in the real world. When your home, you can get off at 5 and be drunk every night by 7. You can do it as often and as long as you want to, so long as you have the means. In the service, it is not that way. I think this is the major difference in context to the whole drinking thing.

[iceberg]

I agree. I know that I never drank more then while in the service. Having said that, I did not get drunk every night or have the freedom to just go get plowed when I wanted to. Especially while in theater. Don't get me wrong, sailors drink. In those days, it was almost manditory. However, it's not the same is in the real world. When your home, you can get off at 5 and be drunk every night by 7. You can do it as often and as long as you want to, so long as you have the means. In the service, it is not that way. I think this is the major difference in context to the whole drinking thing.

i unfortunately did that for many years. one day i had enough and went 8 months w/o drinking a thing and the first week was the worst. from there i just wondered what to do with the time on my hands.

now it's just a weekend thing tops and even then rarely to the degree i did before nightly.

[ABQCOWBOY]

i unfortunately did that for many years. one day i had enough and went 8 months w/o drinking a thing and the first week was the worst. from there i just wondered what to do with the time on my hands.

now it's just a weekend thing tops and even then rarely to the degree i did before nightly.

Time is a killer, I know it is. I've known a lot of guys who continued to drink hard, even after they got out. Glad to hear you have bested that Ice. Seriously.

[iceberg]

Time is a killer, I know it is. I've known a lot of guys who continued to drink hard, even after they got out. Glad to hear you have bested that Ice. Seriously.

for a long time i never figured it something to "best" or cause a problem. job was fine (autopilot actually) and i didn't like going out anyway and i was just a single mid 30's dude killing time. and my liver. when i thought "ya know, this could be a problem" there were some jump starts in trying to quit and my life did hit some bottom parts of depression. but i did it to myself and only i could ever get myself out of it.

if i ever wanted my life to be better / more *i* had to change. the person i initially tried to change for wasn't interested in a relationship but i talked myself through that going in reminding me there would be other chances regardless and if i do this, it had to be for me - no one else.

now my radio station is much stronger, my rep in dallas as a huge local music supporter is going good and i'm writing for various publications outside my own, along with starting a publishing company for music and working on indie films and commercials.

wow. maybe i need to go back to drinking and get some down time. : )

[BrAinPaiNt]

for a long time i never figured it something to "best" or cause a problem. job was fine (autopilot actually) and i didn't like going out anyway and i was just a single mid 30's dude killing time. and my liver. when i thought "ya know, this could be a problem" there were some jump starts in trying to quit and my life did hit some bottom parts of depression. but i did it to myself and only i could ever get myself out of it.

if i ever wanted my life to be better / more *i* had to change. the person i initially tried to change for wasn't interested in a relationship but i talked myself through that going in reminding me there would be other chances regardless and if i do this, it had to be for me - no one else.

now my radio station is much stronger, my rep in dallas as a huge local music supporter is going good and i'm writing for various publications outside my own, along with starting a publishing company for music and working on indie films and commercials.

wow. maybe i need to go back to drinking and get some down time. : )

I guess we are QUITTERS. :p:

I just have no desire for it now. I am not opposed to having a beer or two if I get to see relatives I rarely get to see or other special occasions. However I don't go to bars and just don't desire to drink now.

If some of my old army buddies would hear or read this they would probably flip.

It was all we did when we were not out in the field or on duty.

The stories I could tell:D Well..not all of them on this forum but you get the picture.:laugh2:

[burmafrd]

I know some old Vietnam vets- Special Forces- and some of the stories they tell about the boozing they did- AFTER Viet Nam- are truly legendary. Special Forces and Airborne were traditionally HEAVY boozers. Marines as well. Those panty waists in the Air Force of course were different.

That article- which has been all over the media today- was very carefully crafted to make the Military and the War look bad. Just leaving out the fact that the rate for the Army was lower then the national average for the same population group CLEARLY shows the agenda of the writer.

[iceberg]

I know some old Vietnam vets- Special Forces- and some of the stories they tell about the boozing they did- AFTER Viet Nam- are truly legendary. Special Forces and Airborne were traditionally HEAVY boozers. Marines as well. Those panty waists in the Air Force of course were different.

That article- which has been all over the media today- was very carefully crafted to make the Military and the War look bad. Just leaving out the fact that the rate for the Army was lower then the national average for the same population group CLEARLY shows the agenda of the writer.

yea, that was my impression. the writer seems to have an agenda and wants people to think the job is making people kill themselves at a higher rate because of the war.

did spawn some good convo, though. in the end i think we know better.