O/T Washington City Paper: Dan Snyder monopolizing parking

[Angus]

Park Place

Snyder goes national with his parking tactics.

By Dave McKenna

Michael Palazzi wondered what sort of higher power was making officials in tiny Agawam, Mass., behave so badly. Now he realizes it was Dan Snyder.


“I’ve been in Agawam my whole life,” he says. “Grew up here, played sports here. I know everybody. But something strange is going on here now.”


Agawam is a farming community with a population of about 28,000, which balloons in the summertime with the opening of the amusement park, now known as Six Flags New England.


Snyder became chairman of the board for Six Flags in late 2005. The goings-on in Agawam show that he intends to burden the rest of the country, and probably the world, with the same sort of gouging, er, revenue-enhancement strategies that infuriate his Redskins customers.


Take, for example, parking. The fees at FedExField are legendary: ESPN reported this week that Snyder’s minimum $35 per car charge for Redskins games is nearly twice the NFL average.


Rates at all Six Flags lots have skyrocketed since Snyder’s ascension to chief at about the same pace as stock in the amusement chain has fallen. At the Agawam facility, parking now costs from $15 to $30.


The Six Flags rate hikes sucked for roller-coaster enthusiasts but were good for some Agawam businessmen, including Palazzi. He owns and operates a storage facility next to the Six Flags–owned parking lots and also owns a small strip mall on the property adjoining his business.


For the 20 years prior to Snyder’s takeover of the amusement park chain, Palazzi had been charging the park’s customers to park in his lot, which shortens their walk to the park entrance and saves them money. At the beginning of the park’s 2007 season, he was charging $10 on his lot, which he says gave parkers a walk equivalent in distance to Six Flags’ premium lots. He’d average about 100 cars a day during the summer months.


“The traffic and congestion when the park’s open has always cost me and the tenants [of the strip center] customers—nobody wants to get into big lines of traffic to come to my storage facility—so [parking cars] was a way to make up for the loss of customers,” he says.


But a few months ago, Palazzi received notice of several $100 fines for allegedly parking cars on his lot without a permit. He contested the fines in court.


“I pointed out that my property is commercially zoned, and my permits are to store cars and boats there,” he says. “So parking cars is what I do for a living. I couldn’t believe I was getting the tickets, and the judge couldn’t either. I’m thinking, What the hell is going on here?”


Those fines were thrown out. But the Agawam town council immediately got to work on amending the town code to essentially prevent Six Flags customers from parking anywhere but in Six Flags–owned lots.


Richard Cohen, Agawam’s mayor, lobbied publicly and privately for the parking ban.


The heaviest hitter on the pro-ban team, however, was Mark Shapiro, a Snyder associate who was named Six Flags president and CEO after the takeover. Shapiro personally traveled to Agawam to push for the ban at town meetings. Shapiro claimed the ban would protect local residents and Six Flags customers from traffic injuries.


The public safety pitch didn’t make any sense to those hit hardest by the ban.


“I’ve been doing this for 20 years, and there hasn’t been a single safety incident—not one —with people coming from my lot or anybody else’s lot and going to Six Flags,” says Palazzi. “Shapiro flies in here and says that this is about safety. He’s concerned about public safety, so nobody can park anywhere but where Six Flags can charge them. If this is really about the safety of people here, why would somebody in Shapiro’s position even get involved?…I told Shapiro that if he was really concerned about safety of people at Six Flags, he should look internally and maybe stop kids from getting their [feet] chopped off. Because nobody’s getting hurt in our parking lots.” (In June, a Six Flags patron in Kentucky lost her feet when a cable snapped on a ride called the Superman Tower of Power.)


Tony Cirillo, a businessman in Agawam who had been parking 100 cars a day on his lot adjacent to Six Flags before the ban kicked in, seconds Palazzi’s emotion. “This was never about safety,” Cirillo says. “That guy Shapiro knows it, but he actually heckled me [at a hearing], called me ‘pathetic.’ He gets up in his $2,000 suit and thinks he can just take advantage of people here. He’s just a stooge for Dan Snyder.”


J.P. Szymkowicz, a local attorney, knows all about bogus safety arguments being used to justify bogus parking bans at Snyder-owned entities. Szymkowicz filed a suit on behalf of Redskins season ticketholders in 2004 to stop the team and Prince George’s County officials from preventing pedestrian traffic into FedExField.


That ban had been put in place in 2000—a year after Snyder took control of the team—to stop fans from parking at Landover Mall.


Szymkowicz argued that the ban was illegal and only intended to force cars to pay Snyder’s parking fees. He brought in experts, including the police officer who handled pedestrian traffic at Camden Yards, which, unlike FedExField, is an urban venue bordering a major thoroughfare, to testify that pedestrian traffic can be handled safely at stadiums where traffic conditions are a lot less safe than those at Snyder’s venue.


Szymkowicz won. The Redskins were forced to allow folks to walk into games without paying Snyder a dime for parking.
“They said it was a safety issue,” Szymkowicz says. “It wasn’t a safety issue.”


Palazzi and Cirillo have both hired attorneys and, after having their applications for parking permits under the new law denied, are planning to sue.


“At first our beef was just with the town,” says Kevin Maynard, Palazzi’s lawyer. “Now we’re going to have to start looking at Six Flags.”
Six Flags spokesperson Wendy Goldberg says the company views the matter as closed. “It’s a
local safety issue that was effectively handled in the community,” she says.


Agawam Council President Donald Rheault isn’t so sure the issue is dead. Rheault says that he and other councilmembers “thought we were acting in good faith” when Six Flags approached town officials to push for the parking ban. Rheault confesses, however, that he’s having second thoughts about having helped to turn the amusement park chain’s request into law.


“Six Flags came and presented what seemed to be a logical reason to address the issue, and we did address the issue,” he says. “But some of these businesses have legitimate gripes, and I feel they should be granted permits [to continue parking cars]. Now, I’m not sure I would have supported it the way that it was presented.”


The Agawam mayor, however, doesn’t seem close to ready to change his stance.


“We work very well with Six Flags, and they work very well to keep traffic safe and people safe,” Cohen says. “We want everybody to park cars on the same side of the street.”


Cohen admits, however, that, as Palazzi says, there have been no safety incidents regarding pedestrians walking to the park from the unsanctioned lots in the last 20 years. Yet when it is pointed out that Palazzi’s property is on the same side of the street as the Six Flags lots, Cohen shouts “Don’t talk down to me!” and hangs up.

[LaTunaNostra]

Nice little vignette demonstrating the chances of small business when it goes up against the combined forces of big business and the guv.

and just more evidence of what a dirtbag Snyder is.

30 bucks just for parking - at a venue that will already set any family back a hundred in rides, snacks, and entertainment...

...smells like Danny Boy, all right.

[5Stars]

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer!

Snyder is a scum bag, period! Yet, he has every RedStink fan ready and willing to bow down and shine his shoes.

:cool:

[Hostile]

That's disgusting. Small business is what makes America great. These jerks are trying to hurt the small businessman and gouge their own clients.

IMO, Goodell needs to be made aware of owners who practice unseemly business just as much as the players who do.

[BigDFan5]

Wait you mean Snyder is a greedy dirtbag that does not care about his redskin fans or anyone other than himself? NOOOOO you dont say

[LaTunaNostra]

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer!

Snyder is a scum bag, period! Yet, he has every RedStink fan ready and willing to bow down and shine his shoes.

:cool:

Hey, how else is he going to pay for the Adam Archeletas of this world?

And that's not a crack on the player - watch him play lights out under Lovie, who will use him 'right'.

And they got him for a sixth round draft choice

hee hee hee

[LaTunaNostra]

That's disgusting. Small business is what makes America great. These jerks are trying to hurt the small businessman and gouge their own clients.

IMO, Goodell needs to be made aware of owners who practice unseemly business just as much as the players who do.

The Commissioner isn't into exposing modern day robber barons.

they pay his salary. :D

But Danny sure has a thing about exorbitant fees and 'parking' just about anywhere, doesn't he?

I'm waiting for him to corner the market at cemetaries - make a few bucks on whatever funeral he can get the parking rights to.

[random Cs]

I really doubt Snyder handles the day to day operations of Six-Flags and the parking facilities.

[CowboyJeff]

very easy solution: 2 private lots with 100 cars per lot at $10 per car? Force Six Flags to charge $10 for the first 200 cars that enter its lot every day. We'll then see how quickly the "safety" issue goes away.

[theogt]

If they don't like the law, lobby to have it changed. If that doesn't work, campaign to have another councilman elected. If that doesn't work, tough luck.

[Hostile]

I really doubt Snyder handles the day to day operations of Six-Flags and the parking facilities.That's interesting. So this 6 Flags followed his lead at Fed Ex (right down to the "safety" issues about parking anywhere but his lots) independent of any input from him or those closest to him?

I have some beach front property for sale. Unbelievable prices.

[Hostile]

If they don't like the law, lobby to have it changed. If that doesn't work, campaign to have another councilman elected. If that doesn't work, tough luck.Isn't that what they are doing? Even to the point of hiring attorneys?

[theogt]

That's interesting. So this 6 Flags followed his lead at Fed Ex (right down to the "safety" issues about parking anywhere but his lots) independent of any input from him or those closest to him?

I have some beach front property for sale. Unbelievable prices.I'm not sure raising parking fees, particularly for event parking, is necessarily an original idea developed and perpetrated solely by Danny Snyder.

[theogt]

Isn't that what they are doing? Even to the point of hiring attorneys?Yup. And that's good for them. I was just pointing out that this isn't some great injustice.

[Hostile]

I'm not sure raising parking fees, particularly for event parking, is necessarily an original idea developed and perpetrated solely by Danny Snyder.Raising them to exhorbitant levels and then seeking legal avenues by means of unscrupulous claims that put a stop to anyone using alternate parking doesn't seem awfully convenient to you?

Seriously?

[Hostile]

Yup. And that's good for them. I was just pointing out that this isn't some great injustice.Oh brother.

[LaTunaNostra]

I really doubt Snyder handles the day to day operations of Six-Flags and the parking facilities.

Of course he doesn't handle day-to-day operations.

He just sends out the money gouging directives, followed by his team of legal flunkies, lobbyists, and glorified thugs to see the gouging is enforced.

Wherever Danny Boy goes, the paper trail of family outing killing parking hikes follow in his wake.

But what's it to him a family can no longer enjoy a summer afternoon at an amusement park...if they really want to go, let them skip dinner. Or instead of a day on the rollar coaster, the kids can take turns jumping out of trees in their backyards...they'll get roughly the same effect.

[theogt]

Raising them to exhorbitant levels and then seeking legal avenues by means of unscrupulous claims that put a stop to anyone using alternate parking doesn't seem awfully convenient to you?

Seriously?Exhorbitant? If people don't like it, they'll stop going. I mean, it's an amusement park for crying out loud. If you don't want to pay for it, don't go.

Oh brother.That was my reaction.

[Hostile]

Exhorbitant? If people don't like it, they'll stop going. I mean, it's an amusement park for crying out loud. If you don't want to pay for it, don't go.

That was my reaction.You clearly did not read the article or at least didn't try to grasp the message. I get it. No big deal.

[LaTunaNostra]

Yup. And that's good for them. I was just pointing out that this isn't some great injustice.

Well, it is if the owner of the Skins is behind it.:D

[5Stars]

Yup. And that's good for them. I was just pointing out that this isn't some great injustice.


How much money do you make per year, theogt? Huh?

:cool: It's not an injustice to you because you can afford to wipe your butt with steak!

Other families scrimp and save to take their kids for a good time...and guess what? Snyder is making it harder for them to do that!

[random Cs]

That's interesting. So this 6 Flags followed his lead at Fed Ex (right down to the "safety" issues about parking anywhere but his lots) independent of any input from him or those closest to him?

I have some beach front property for sale. Unbelievable prices. I have no idea, but I would guess that safety standards for amusement parks and Sporting Arenas are similar in regards to parking facilities.

[theogt]

You clearly did not read the article or at least didn't try to grasp the message. I get it. No big deal.No, I get it. They're upset that someone used the local government to screw them out of parking fees that are, in and of themselves, the result of that someone bringing business into the area.

With a town that size, whoever owns the business should be pretty familiar with the "local politics." I'm sure they'll work something out. It's just business.

[Hostile]

I have no idea, but I would guess that safety standards for amusement parks and Sporting Arenas are similar in regards to parking facilities.Read it again Norman. The "safety" issues do not exist. In either case. It is a scam meant to direct parking right into his wallet.

Holy cow it's not that hard to read.

[theogt]

How much money do you make per year, theogt? Huh?

:cool: It's not an injustice to you because you can afford to wipe your butt with steak!

Other families scrimp and save to take their kids for a good time...and guess what? Snyder is making it harder for them to do that!I'm sure the businessman that owns the storage unit in question makes quite a bit more than most of us on this site.

[Hostile]

No, I get it. They're upset that someone used the local government to screw them out of parking fees that are, in and of themselves, the result of that someone bringing business into the area.

With a town that size, whoever owns the business should be pretty familiar with the "local politics." I'm sure they'll work something out. It's just business.LOL

Yeah, you get it.

:thumbup:

[5Stars]

I have no idea, but I would guess that safety standards for amusement parks and Sporting Arenas are similar in regards to parking facilities.


Yeah, right! Sucker!

Twenty years have gone by without ONE incident of safety...now that Snyder owns 6 Hags...he wants to change the parking rules?

Go shine his shoes, boy! Shine them good!

:dissskin:

[theogt]

LOL

Yeah, you get it.

:thumbup:I take it you didn't.

[5Stars]

I'm sure the businessman that owns the storage unit in question makes quite a bit more than most of us on this site.


Not anymore! Those small business men trying to make some extra cash during an event like this will lose money now because Lil Danny wants it in his pocket...


:cool: You would fit right in with his legal defense...

[random Cs]

Read it again Norman. The "safety" issues do not exist. In either case. It is a scam meant to direct parking right into his wallet.

Holy cow it's not that hard to read. I never said they were necessary or not a loophole to get more money.

[theogt]

Not anymore! Those small business men trying to make some extra cash during an event like this will lose money now because Lil Danny wants it in his pocket...


:cool: You would fit right in with his legal defense...I'm politically against this sort of rent-seeking behavior, so I'd more likely be employed by the local businessman.

[LaTunaNostra]

I'm sure the businessman that owns the storage unit in question makes quite a bit more than most of us on this site.

And I'm sure Six Flags New England and its chairman Danny Boy make a lot more than the dude who sells parking at reasonable rates to offset the losses he incurs because the traffic is so intense he can't do much in the way of storage business.

we don't know all the details, but I've found the best rule of thumb for we consumers always comes down to competition, and choice...monopolizing parking for erstwhile safety issues woudl be fine..IF it weren't at gouging rates.

I'm getting a flashback now, to a few years back when Bobby Kraft built his NE pats stadium..and remember a similar issue about neighbors letting people park at a reduced fee in their yards and the Pats claiming it wasn't kosher ....have to look it up, but I'm seeing a trend here, now. lol

[jrumann59]

I live in the DC area and the fans are tired of the high tickets prices, obstructed views and parking fees. Unfortunately Skins fans, have a lot of loob to take it like that and for so long without anything of substance to show for it, except Coach Joe coming back.

[5Stars]

I'm politically against this sort of rent-seeking behavior, so I'd more likely be employed by the local businessman.


:banghead:

Damn! I'm wrong again?

:confused:

[Bob Sacamano]

c'mon guys, Danny needs his new, state of the art high-chair

so cut him some slack, he has to reach the dinner table too

cuz he's gotta eat

[Mansta54]

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer!

Snyder is a scum bag, period! Yet, he has every RedStink fan ready and willing to bow down and shine his shoes.

:cool:

This is far from the truth. I live in MD. and Foreskin fans can't stand Lil Danny. I know plenty of fans who don't go to the games anymore and haven't renewed their season tickets. All because of hate for Lil Danny. They luv their Foreskins but can't stand Lil Danny at all...

[Mansta54]

c'mon guys, Danny needs his new, state of the art high-chair

so cut him some slack, he has to reach the dinner table too

cuz he's gotta eat

:lmao2: :lmao: :lmao2: :lmao: :lmao2:

[notherbob]

What disturbs me is the ease with which he can find local corrupt politicians to deal with in cheating the local folk. My guess is that those politicians get re-elected time after time.

[jrumann59]

What disturbs me is the ease with which he can find local corrupt politicians to deal with in cheating the local folk. My guess is that those politicians get re-elected time after time.

A percentage of something is better than a percentage of nothing.

[Crown Royal]

What disturbs me is the ease with which he can find local corrupt politicians to deal with in cheating the local folk. My guess is that those politicians get re-elected time after time.

1 - I have no problem with what Daniel Snyder/Six Flags wishes to charge for parking in their own lots. The lots belong to them, they are in a for-profit business. They are under no ethical/moral obligation to make Six Flags available to everyone for a family day of fun.

2 - I do have a problem with their lobbying of local officials under a guise of 'safety' issues, when there are two problems. One - there is no statistical or historical information to support the idea that there are safety issues. Two - it is likely a lie anyway. The whole thing reaks, especially because there is no reason that pedestrianism should be considered 'unsafe' in itself. There was a time when we were all pedestrians.

3 - This is why I quoted you, NotherBob. Just because the town officials passed it, i can't assume that they are corrupt. Granted, doesn't look good for the mayor of the town, but I can understand how the proper amount of rhetoric in a town meeting could make people think, on the surface, how there could be a safety concern. Now, that doesn't mean that they are correct, but they could be mistaken and not corrupt (such as the councilman cited in the article who had second thoughts). I do find it incredibly irresponsible that they didn't question the motives a bit more than they did.

4 - It seems to me that the business folk who were damaged by this are taking excellent steps to rectify their situation, for which they should be commended. Should they prevail, and assuming that the article divulged all relevant information, then the system will have succeeded in the end (if after a brief delay).

[Crown Royal]

In addition to points 2 and 3 - the town council, if they gave the idea due diligence, should have recognized something very important in the issue. Why would Six Flags care about 'safety issues' in crossing the street? They wouldn't be liable for such an issue.

[theogt]

Good stuff, CR. The problem with rent-seeking, however, is that even if it's eventually corrected, resources were wasted in the process. Something should be done about this at a higher level, but I don't think we're in a political/legal climate to see much of that happen any time soon.

[Crown Royal]

Good stuff, CR. The problem with rent-seeking, however, is that even if it's eventually corrected, resources were wasted in the process. Something should be done about this at a higher level, but I don't think we're in a political/legal climate to see much of that happen any time soon.

I admit, I had to look up the term 'rent-seeking.' Good one to know, now. Intuitive scheme, but I didn't know that there was an actual word for it.

And yes - I can see this as something that should be addressed via law if it could be, but it seems that it could be sticky.

[SkinsandTerps]

Go to a Patriots game and see how much parking is.
The parking at restaurants a mile away is 30 bucks.
Parking at the stadium is 35 bucks.

Ticket prices are high but not obscene, think of what other teams are charging for the PSL's (which, DC doesn't have).

I can only imagine what tickets and parking will cost at the new Cowboys stadium. Hold on to your seats.

[notherbob]

On second thought, it's hard to blame the businessman when the customer is eagerly willing to pay extra. Our demands for more lavish entertainment are the driving forces at work here. Hang the expense. Whether we're talking about an entertainment park or a sporting event, we've prepared ourselves to hand over whatever sums are demanded of us in order that we, or our kids, can indulge our expensive entertainment habits.

In our urgency to assuage our pain we eagerly fork over the money. If people would stop, those prices would come down. Ain't gonna happen, though, we've convinced ourselves that we have to have it. Look in the mirror for the cause of rising prices of everything, it's part of the economy.

Like Pogo once said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

After all, it's only a problem if you remember how it used to be and it matters to you. It's hard to feel sorry for people when they bring their problems upon themselves.

I'm glad I quit wanting to go to places like that a long time ago.

[CliffnMesquite]

Snyder has been uncontrolable since they put that leather and Gold booster seat in his owners box.

[CrazyCowboy]

This is just another reason for me hating the deadskins and their organization.......what a joke ..$30 plus to park.

[Yeagermeister]

c'mon guys, Danny needs his new, state of the art high-chair

so cut him some slack, he has to reach the dinner table too

cuz he's gotta eat

Let him use the yellow pages like I did when I was a little Yeagermeister......A LONG TIME AGO :D

[Cbz40]

Let him use the yellow pages like I did when I was a little Yeagermeister......A LONG TIME AGO :D

UMMMMMMM!!!! Nevermind...:D


Morning Yeag.

[Yeagermeister]

UMMMMMMM!!!! Nevermind...:D


Morning Yeag.

Watch now Pops....I know where you live.....sort of :laugh2:

Morning Pops

[keds]

What I abhor about people of privilege and power is how they resort to name calling and lies to get their way...

they resort to name calling people "pathetic" when facts are presented to them... or using emotional outbursts to try to intimidate "don't talk down to me"

they use classic Orwellian doublespeak arguing for safety when their true motive is the want for more money and revenue...

I doubt the mayor Cohen is putting his constituents first in this matter... you would think the job of the mayor would be to uphold the laws of his town instead buckling to the influence of his wealthy friends at Six Flags...

[gbrittain]

Did I ever mention I hate everything about the Redskins.

I hate their colors, I hate their ugly helmet, I hate that piece of crap stadium they play in, I hate their stupid old fart band, I hate their name, and above all I hate their little napoleon wanna be owner.:laugh2:

[notherbob]

I boldly predict that this will be a real trying year for Mr. Zimmer in Atlanta. He's gonna have his hands full and his pockets, too.

It will be interesting to see how much Parcells has relaxed this year.

BP is rich, single, living in a fabulous home like a Mafia Don, working a great paying part-time job and and doing whatever the hell he pleases. That'll take the tension out of anyone.

[Crown Royal]

I boldly predict that this will be a real trying year for Mr. Zimmer in Atlanta. He's gonna have his hands full and his pockets, too.

It will be interesting to see how much Parcells has relaxed this year.

BP is rich, single, living in a fabulous home like a Mafia Don, working a great paying part-time job and and doing whatever the hell he pleases. That'll take the tension out of anyone.

...

Is this in the right thread?

[KD]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/cheat/news/story?id=2964625

[BouncingCheese]

Dan Snyder is an aihse. He recently took over a water park and branded it in one of his monopoly companies I forget which one. Point is, he is charging like 200 dollars a day per person to move to the front of the lines, have a free lunch and also a free picture with bug bunny.

Dan Snyder is a great business man but a terrible person judging from how he treated his nanny and his kids and an even worse person about knowing how to run a football team. But hey kids, we are offering soda for 15 cents off or a 5 liter bottle! What a deal!

[theogt]

How much do Blue Parking passes cost for Texas Stadium? I'm certain it's more than $35.

http://www.landrystickets.com/sports/texasstadiumparking2002.html

They're re-selling at $125 per game there.

[Angus]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/cheat/news/story?id=2964625

Thanks, KD. Quite a story.

Jerry Jones right in there with the rest of them.

:eek:

[Crown Royal]

How much do Blue Parking passes cost for Texas Stadium? I'm certain it's more than $35.

http://www.landrystickets.com/sports/texasstadiumparking2002.html

They're re-selling at $125 per game there.


Cash parking is relatively cheap, though.

[iceberg]

That's disgusting. Small business is what makes America great. These jerks are trying to hurt the small businessman and gouge their own clients.

IMO, Goodell needs to be made aware of owners who practice unseemly business just as much as the players who do.

or people just need to not go to 6 flags. they need to get involved in the fight and to be made aware of what's going on.

6 flags customers must park in their parking lots? my arse. so put up a concession stand and let them park there for $10 for the concession stand and they can then say "hey, 6 flags is good" and they were not a primary 6 flags customer.

if there is justice in this world, the skins are gonna have a bad bad year. karma plays no favorites.

[dogunwo]

That's disgusting. Small business is what makes America great. These jerks are trying to hurt the small businessman and gouge their own clients.

IMO, Goodell needs to be made aware of owners who practice unseemly business just as much as the players who do.
you mean like charging for training camp?

[dogunwo]

Go to a Patriots game and see how much parking is.
The parking at restaurants a mile away is 30 bucks.
Parking at the stadium is 35 bucks.

Ticket prices are high but not obscene, think of what other teams are charging for the PSL's (which, DC doesn't have).

I can only imagine what tickets and parking will cost at the new Cowboys stadium. Hold on to your seats.
High parking prices happen, but it isnt the norm. For instance, parking directly outside of Bank of America stadium in Charlotte is $15. Down the street is $10.

[AtlCB]

Safety concerns?????? Isn't this the same organization that hires gansters in Atlanta? Is this the same organization that lets thugs run unchecked in their park in Atlanta????? Most people I know will not take their kids to Six Flags over Georgia, because of the type of people who work and hang out there. :eek: