Vick Plea Details:Vick admits dog killing, conspiracy

[Crown Royal]

Vick admits dog killing, conspiracy


http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/24/michael.vick/index.html







(CNN) -- NFL star Michael Vick has admitted that he and his co-defendants killed dogs that did not fight well in papers filed on Friday with a federal court in Virginia.
http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/US/law/08/24/michael.vick/art.vick.gi.jpgNFL star Michael Vick is set to appear in court Monday. A judge will have the final say on a plea deal.


http://www.cnn.com/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif


In a plea agreement, Vick said he would plead guilty to one count of "Conspiracy to Travel in Interstate Commerce in Aid of Unlawful Activities and to Sponsor a Dog in an Animal Fighting Venture."
The charge is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
Federal prosecutors agreed to ask for the low end of the sentencing guidelines.
In an additional statement of facts, signed by Vick and filed with the agreement, Vick admitted buying the property that was used for dogfighting but said he did not bet on the fights or receive any of the money won.
"Most of the 'Bad Newz Kennels'' operations and gambling monies were provided by Vick," the official summary of facts stated. Gambling wins were generally split between co-conspirators Tony Taylor, Quanis Phillips and sometimes Purnell Peace, it continued.
"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds from the purses that were won by 'Bad Newz Kennels.'"
Don't Miss


Vick summary of facts (http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/08/24/vick.summary.facts.pdf)
Fighting dogs face grim future (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/23/dog.fighting/index.html)
Your e-mails: Should the NFL ban Vick? (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/21/vick.reader.feedback/index.html)
Original indictment (pdf) (http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/07/18/ind.pdf)
Vick also agreed that "collective efforts" by him and two others caused the deaths of at least six dogs.
In about April of this year, Vick, Peace and Phillips tested some dogs in fighting sessions at Vick's property in Virginia, the statement said. "Peace, Phillips and Vick agreed to the killing of approximately 6-8 dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road and all of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning.
"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick," the summary said.
Three co-defendants -- Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, Virginia; Phillips, 28, of Atlanta; and Taylor, 34, of Hampton, Virginia -- have already accepted agreements to plead guilty in exchange for reduced sentences.
Vick (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/michael_vick), 27, is scheduled to appear in federal court in Richmond, Virginia, on Monday, where he is expected to plead guilty before a judge. http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/interactive.gif See a timeline of the case against Vick » (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/24/michael.vick/index.html#cnnSTCOther1)
The judge in the case will have the final say over the plea agreement.
http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/content/ads/advertisement.gif


If the judge accepts the deal, it means Vick will avoid more serious charges that might have been considered by a grand jury.
After Vick's indictment last month, National Football League (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/nfl_football) Commissioner Roger Goodell ordered the quarterback not to report to the Falcons training camp, and the league is reviewing the case.

[HopeCowboyFan]

This is a legal victory for Vick, he was not guilty on the gambling charges.
And a vague statement on his involvement in the killings.

Vick will do his time and be reinstated.

[Crown Royal]

Pansy Mods :D

[UDcowboysfan]

Say goodbye to the NFL Mr.Vick and this :jackpot:

[fortdick]

Just because he dodged the gambling charges with the court doesn;t mean he can dodge them with the NFL. In an administrative hearing, Goodell can assume those charges are true since Vick pleaded to related charges. IT actually strongly supports the gambling charges because the witnesses relied upon in the court case have proven reliable. Ergo, Goodell can accept their statements as fact.

Vick would have to disprove the gambling allegations at an adminstrative hearing, and that will be tough to do. I think a lifetime ban is still on the table.

[5Stars]

What is going on here! There are articles saying Vick won't admit to killing dogs, now this article where Vick admits to particpating in killing dogs?

:bang2: I don't think anyone knows what the hell is going on here!

Either way...he's done and gone!!

[REDVOLUTION]

It is pretty clear that Vicks future was taken into deep consideration.

With pressure from outside organizations like the NAACP (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will probably stroll along soon) and other pro it-doesnt-matter-what-you-did-we-want-you-to-get-special-considerations-
because-we-are-fussing-about-it group...

Vick will probably not only get back to NFL... but there will be pressure for Blank not to let him go. Get ready for spin-this and spin-that.... SPINCITY!!!

[Crown Royal]

I think it's funny that Vick got a plea bargain because of pressure from outside organizations. I wonder what organizations must have been pressuring for the others to get the bargains.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Here is a link to the PDF file of the plea agreement.

LINK (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/070824_Vick_Statement_Of_Facts.pdf)

[5Stars]

Here is a link to the PDF file of the plea agreement.

LINK (http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/070824_Vick_Statement_Of_Facts.pdf)


I read that whole thing, but, I'm still confused as to whether Vick did or did not admit to killing dog?

How about it Cobra, or peplaw? How do you guys read it.

How about anyone else? How do you read it? Did he confess to that or not?


(i hate reading legal docs)

:confused:

[Avery]

Vick will not be back in the NFL; it'd be a PR nightmare for a team.

Besides, there's better RB's on the market anyway. :)

[BrAinPaiNt]

I read that whole thing, but, I'm still confused as to whether Vick did or did not admit to killing dog?

How about it Cobra, or peplaw? How do you guys read it.

How about anyone else? How do you read it? Did he confess to that or not?


(i hate reading legal docs)

:confused:

The thing says that he never actually did the killing but he was partially responsible for the killings.

In other words he knew the dogs were going to be killed, he agreed the dogs were to be killed, he OKed the dogs to be killed but his agreement says he never actually handled the dogs and drowned them or killed them.

So he would be like a captain in the mafia of sorts that gives the order to kill some one but does not actually pull the trigger himself.

That is what the papers are basically saying.


Another thing I found odd or sneaky I guess.

They said each fight would have a purse that the winner would take. I can only guess that both parties (Vicks Kennel and the opposing Kennel) would put in money to make the purse.

They also said besides the purse there would be side betting going on.

Vick's plea states that he was NOT a party to the side betting.

Vick's plea states that he did NOT get any of the purse.

That last one about not getting any of the purse just makes no sense to me. So did he never add to the purse and therefore never get any of the purse when his kennel won? If so does that mean only the other members in his kennel business were the ones putting the money in and winning the money?

That just sounds like a load of bull to me but the feds and vicks lawyers agreed to the deal so that is how it stands.

[tecolote]

Roger Cossack from ESPN also said that Vick is going to give the goverment information that could bring down other dogfighting rings, and that since that is very valuable information for them that there is the chance Vick could get no jail time at all.

[zrinkill]

I bet he gets 6 - 8 months in jail and a 2007 and 2008 seasons suspension by the NFL ....

Then the Vikings, Raiders, or Skins will sign him. Little Napoleon is drooling.

[Seven]

This is a legal victory for Vick, he was not guilty on the gambling charges.
And a vague statement on his involvement in the killings.

Vick will do his time and be reinstated.


This is a legal victory for the govt. and the feds in that dog fighting is no longer on the back burner. Vick is done, finished and this being about him ended when the first member of his possee sang like a canary and the rest lined up like little ducks. We were all simply waiting for some form of legal action from that moment on.

Legal victory for Vick. :laugh2: Welp, I guess a guy has to have something to hang his hat on.

[Seven]

I bet he gets 6 - 8 months in jail and a 2007 and 2008 seasons suspension by the NFL ....

Then the Vikings, Raiders, or Skins will sign him. Little Napoleon is drooling.

I'm thinking 18 months. I think the feds being involved, the outcry with the public and the insanely brutal way in which the dogs were killed and treated, the judge will feel the need to flex the judicial muscles.

I don't think he'll be allowed back. I see a form of parole board environment when he applies for re-instatement. Peta and the likes will be there with their signage and mega-phones, etc. Kinda like the Mothers , fathers and family members of the murder victim showing up for the parole hearing with the murderer. JMO, Of course.

[dcdallaschick]

The thing says that he never actually did the killing but he was partially responsible for the killings.

In other words he knew the dogs were going to be killed, he agreed the dogs were to be killed, he OKed the dogs to be killed but his agreement says he never actually handled the dogs and drowned them or killed them.

So he would be like a captain in the mafia of sorts that gives the order to kill some one but does not actually pull the trigger himself.

That's not how I read item #32 (p.8-9 of the agreement)...

32. In or about April 2007, PEACE, PHILLIPS, VICK, and two others "rolled" or "tested" additional "Bad Newz Kennels" dogs by putting the dogs through fighting sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road to determine which animals were good fighters. PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK agreed to the killing of approximately 6-8 dogs that did not perform well in "testing" sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road and all of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. VICK agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK.

From what I remember, this mirrors the wording of the other plea agreements. To me, this says Vick was there, was part of the fight testing, and worked with the other two to kill the dogs.

[BrAinPaiNt]

That's not how I read item #32 (p.8-9 of the agreement)...

32. In or about April 2007, PEACE, PHILLIPS, VICK, and two others "rolled" or "tested" additional "Bad Newz Kennels" dogs by putting the dogs through fighting sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road to determine which animals were good fighters. PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK agreed to the killing of approximately 6-8 dogs that did not perform well in "testing" sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road and all of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. VICK agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK.

From what I remember, this mirrors the wording of the other plea agreements. To me, this says Vick was there, was part of the fight testing, and worked with the other two to kill the dogs.

My bad.

On page 5, i think, it said that Vick and the other two knew the dogs would be killed but vick did not participate in the killing...at THIS TIME.

I did not catch that last part initially.

So it appears like he did not do it early on but is part of it later.

My mistake.

[Crown Royal]

I would think that Vick agreed to cooperate to bring other rings down, as was stated previously. That is really the only incentive I see for the feds to offer this deal

[peplaw06]

That's not how I read item #32 (p.8-9 of the agreement)...

32. In or about April 2007, PEACE, PHILLIPS, VICK, and two others "rolled" or "tested" additional "Bad Newz Kennels" dogs by putting the dogs through fighting sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road to determine which animals were good fighters. PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK agreed to the killing of approximately 6-8 dogs that did not perform well in "testing" sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road and all of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. VICK agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK.

From what I remember, this mirrors the wording of the other plea agreements. To me, this says Vick was there, was part of the fight testing, and worked with the other two to kill the dogs."Died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips, and Vick" doesn't = "Vick killed the dog."

Most of the time, these orders/agreements are very carefully worded, and you have to give them a very literal reading. Nowhere in this agreement does it say that Vick actually killed a dog.

[ConcordCowboy]

"Died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips, and Vick" doesn't = "Vick killed the dog."

Most of the time, these orders/agreements are very carefully worded, and you have to give them a very literal reading. Nowhere in this agreement does it say that Vick actually killed a dog.


"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick," the summary said.

What Peace and Phillips killed them but not Vick?

He said himself that it was a COLLECTIVE effort...which means he was part of the Killings...just like Peace and Phillips.

I've never before heard or read about a person themselves saying I was part of a Collective effort but then NOT be a part of it.

[5Stars]

"Died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips, and Vick" doesn't = "Vick killed the dog."

Most of the time, these orders/agreements are very carefully worded, and you have to give them a very literal reading. Nowhere in this agreement does it say that Vick actually killed a dog.

So, peplaw, who do YOU think killed the dogs? If it does not say that Vick killed any dogs, it also says that Peace and Phillips did not kill dogs too.

:confused:

So, who killed the dogs?

[WarC]

With pressure from outside organizations like the NAACP (Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will probably stroll along soon) and other pro it-doesnt-matter-what-you-did-we-want-you-to-get-special-considerations-because-we-are-fussing-about-it group...

Vick will probably not only get back to NFL... but there will be pressure for Blank not to let him go. Get ready for spin-this and spin-that.... SPINCITY!!!

For exactly those reasons, I would not be surprised at all if we see Vick suiting up to play QB for the Falcons next year...

In fact, I'll be surprised if doesn't play next year.

[ConcordCowboy]

So, peplaw, who do YOU think killed the dogs? If it does not say that Vick killed any dogs, it also says that Peace and Phillips did not kill dogs too.

:confused:

So, who killed the dogs?

That was my point too.

Someone killed the Dogs...But wait...it didn't actually say that Peace or Phillips killed them.:rolleyes:

[5Stars]

That was my point too.

Someone killed the Dogs...But wait...it didn't actually say that Peace or Phillips killed them.:rolleyes:


That's what I'm asking also? peplaw says that it does not say that Vick killed any dogs, OK, I got that. It also says that the other two did not kill the dogs...so I guess...no dogs were actually killed...if what I'm reading from peplaw is right? :confused:

[burmafrd]

Pep and the rest of the lawyers keep forgetting that Goodell can say: He killed dogs, he was involved in gambling, BYE BYE.

Bottom line is that Goodell can drop the hammer and its all up to him.

[ConcordCowboy]

That's what I'm asking also? peplaw says that it does not say that Vick killed any dogs, OK, I got that. It also says that the other two did not kill the dogs...so I guess...no dogs were actually killed...if what I'm reading from peplaw is right? :confused:

I think we all know the Real answer to the question.

Vick killed some dogs just like Peace and Phillips did.

There really is no doubt...just like there was never really was any doubt that he was involved with this whole mess from the beginning...Even though he denied it up until his fellow POS' decided to turn on him.

[5Stars]

Pep and the rest of the lawyers keep forgetting that Goodell can say: He killed dogs, he was involved in gambling, BYE BYE.

Bottom line is that Goodell can drop the hammer and its all up to him.

Well, that is true, but, first things first. Everyone wanted the justice system to determine Vicks innocense or guilt, ok, got that. What happens with the NFL is a whole different can of worms...

[ConcordCowboy]

NFL suspends 'reprehensible' Vick indefinitely


League makes move hours after quarterback strikes plea deal


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20429109/

BREAKING NEWS
MSNBC News Services
Updated: 2:58 p.m. PT Aug 24, 2007

NEW YORK - The NFL indefinitely suspended Michael Vick without pay Friday just hours after he acknowledged in court papers that he did, indeed, bankroll gambling on dogfighting and helped kill some dogs not worthy of the pit.

Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings.

In disciplining Vick, commissioner Roger Goodell said Vick’s admitted conduct was “not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible” and regardless whether he personally placed bets, “your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player.”

A “summary of facts” signed by Vick was filed along with his written plea agreement on a federal dogfighting conspiracy charge. He will appear before U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson to formally plead guilty Monday and then await sentencing at a later date.

The court documents and a statement by Vick’s legal team seek to portray him as less involved in the dogfighting ring than three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against the Atlanta Falcons quarterback.

“While Mr. Vick is not personally charged with or responsible for committing all of the acts alleged in the indictment, as with any conspiracy charge, he is taking full responsibility for his actions and the actions of the others involved,” the defense team said in a written statement after the plea agreement was filed.

“Mr. Vick apologizes for his poor judgment in associating himself with those involved in dog fighting and realizes he should never have been involved in this conduct,” the statement said.

Vick signed the plea agreement late Thursday.

“Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick,” the summary of facts said, echoing language in plea agreements by the three co-defendants.

The statement said that when the kennel’s dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick’s three co-defendants — Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.

“Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels,” the summary said.

According to the statement, Vick also was involved with the others in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions last April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging.

“Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts” of Vick, Phillips and Peace, the statement said.

In the plea agreement, the government committed to recommending a sentence on the low end of the federal sentencing guideline range of a year to 18 months. However, the conspiracy charge is punishable by up to five years in prison, and the judge is not bound by any recommendation or by the guidelines.

Hudson has a reputation for imposing stiff sentences, according to lawyers who have appeared in his court. The judge will set a sentencing date at Monday’s hearing.

“Our position has been that we are going to try to help Judge Hudson understand all the facts and Michael’s role,” Vick’s defense attorney, Billy Martin, said in telephone interview. “Michael’s role was different than others associated with this incident.”

Martin said Vick will “speak to the public and explain his actions.” Though he declined to say when and where, the Tom Joyner Morning Show, a syndicated program based in Dallas, said it will have a live interview with Vick on Tuesday.

The U.S. attorney’s office, which has declined to comment on the case, said it would issue a statement after the hearing.

The case began in April when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick’s cousin raided a Surry County property owned by Vick and found dozens of dogs, some injured, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting.

A federal indictment issued in July charged Vick, Peace, Phillips and Taylor with an interstate dogfighting conspiracy. Vick initially denied any involvement, and all four men pleaded innocent.

Taylor was the first to change his plea to guilty, saying Vick financed the dogfighting ring’s gambling and operations. Peace and Phillips soon followed, alleging that Vick joined them in killing dogs that did not measure up in test fights.

The sickening details outlined in the indictment and other court papers prompted a public backlash against Vick, who had been one of the NFL’s most popular players.

As animal-rights groups mobilized against Vick and sponsors dropped him, Vick was barred from the Falcons training camp, but neither the NFL nor the team have taken further action.

[03EBZ06]

"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of Peace, Phillips and Vick," the summary said.

What Peace and Phillips killed them but not Vick?

He said himself that it was a COLLECTIVE effort...which means he was part of the Killings...just like Peace and Phillips.

I've never before heard or read about a person themselves saying I was part of a Collective effort but then NOT be a part of it.
Exactly. He took part of killing those dogs regardless how it is worded. I guess Roger Cossack is full of it when he clearly said it meant Vick took part of killing those dogs.

[Bob Sacamano]

that plea doesn't make much sence, he's pleading guilty to sponsoring a dog in a fight, yet he didn't bet on the fight(s)? what a dumbarse if this is indeed what happened, all this turmoil for nothing?

[ConcordCowboy]

that plea doesn't make much sence, he's pleading guilty to sponsoring a dog in a fight, yet he didn't bet on the fight(s)? what a dumbarse if this is indeed what happened, all this turmoil for nothing?

As far as the gambling goes...to me it's like saying he didn't inhale.

BS.

[burmafrd]

There were so many stories about Vick paying off gambling debts after fights-you can bet the NFL will find a way to document it.

[03EBZ06]

that plea doesn't make much sence, he's pleading guilty to sponsoring a dog in a fight, yet he didn't bet on the fight(s)? what a dumbarse if this is indeed what happened, all this turmoil for nothing?
Vick did admitted to gambling. From the summery of facts which Vick signed.

"a. traveling in interstate commerce and using the mail or any facility in interstate commerce with intent to promote, manage, establish, carry on and facilitate the promotion, management, establishment, and carrying on of an unlawful acitivity, to wit: a business enterprise involving gambling in violation of Virginia Code Anotated Sections 3.1-796.124(A)(2), 18-2-326, and 18.2-328, and thereafter performing and attempting to perform acts to commit any crime of violence to further any lawful activity and to promote, manage, establish, and carry on, and to facilitate the promotion, management, establishment, and carrying on of the unlawful activity, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1952"

The Virginia Code 3.1-769.124(A)(2) is as follows:

Va. Code Ann. § 3.1-796.124 (2007)

§ 3.1-796.124. Dogfighting; penalty

A. No person shall knowingly do any of the following:

1. Promote, engage in, or be employed in the fightingof dogs for amusement, sport or gain;

2. Wager money or anything of value on the result of such fighting;

[Bob Sacamano]

well good for Vick then, cuz like I always say, if you're going to take a legal hit, make sure you make it worth your while lol

[silverbear]

This is a legal victory for Vick, he was not guilty on the gambling charges.
And a vague statement on his involvement in the killings.

You sound like you're glad... guess you don't think abusing animals for fun and profit is a bad thing...

Vick will do his time and be reinstated.

We'll see...

[burmafrd]

As fast as Goodell dropped the hammer he must have had the details days in advance.

I think the key part of the suspension was the part involving gambling. I bet the NFL investigators are STILL working on that one.

[silverbear]

NEW YORK - The NFL indefinitely suspended Michael Vick without pay Friday just hours after he acknowledged in court papers that he did, indeed, bankroll gambling on dogfighting and helped kill some dogs not worthy of the pit.

Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings.

Y'know, for Goodell's purpose, that doesn't matter... nobody accused Hornung and Karras of placing bets when they were suspended, they were suspended for "associating with known gamblers"... if Vick "bankrolled" the gambling, then he associated with known gamblers...

regardless whether he personally placed bets, “your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player.”

That's what I'm talkin' about...

“Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick,” the summary of facts said, echoing language in plea agreements by the three co-defendants.

So, he put up the money, if his dog lost he lost that money... but if his dog won, he didn't win the money??

RIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGHHHHHHTTTTTTTT... I really believe that...

[zrinkill]

I still say he gets away with it ..... Celebrities like him who have a huge fan base can get away with stuff regular joes like us would get the chair for.

[adamknite]

As far as the gambling goes...to me it's like saying he didn't inhale.

BS.

Plus, it seems like they (vick and his legal team) want everybody to go "awwww, well he didn't gamble... that means he didn't do anything wrong." are they crazy? I don't care if he gambled on it, he was the ring leader of this whole thing, I hope Zrinkill is 100% wrong (even though he's probably closer to right) and Vick never makes an NFL dime again, plus spends a good deal of time in jail.

[03EBZ06]

This is a legal victory for Vick, he was not guilty on the gambling charges.
I think you spoke too soon. He admitted to gambling, just not side bets on the dogfights. I wouldn't call being a snitch a legal victory, he is their ***** now.
And a vague statement on his involvement in the killings.
Lawyer language but if you really pay attention, it isn't as vague as you believe.
Vick will do his time and be reinstated.
Only time will tell but I wouldn't bet on it.

[fanfromvirginia]

For those of you upset that Vick has gotten away with something, you need to remember that this is a plea bargain. The feds don't need to get him on everything -- just enough to squeeze from 1 to 1.5 years of jail time out of, which they've apparently done. I'm guessing they chose the most airtight charge. And if does turn informant as has been reported then it makes that much more sense.

Vick will never throw another pass in an NFL game.

[silverbear]

Plus, it seems like they (vick and his legal team) want everybody to go "awwww, well he didn't gamble... that means he didn't do anything wrong." are they crazy? I don't care if he gambled on it, he was the ring leader of this whole thing, I hope Zrinkill is 100% wrong (even though he's probably closer to right) and Vick never makes an NFL dime again, plus spends a good deal of time in jail.

Their emphasis on the "he didn't gamble" aspect is not to convince anybody that what he did wasn't wrong, but rather an attempt to keep Goodell from banning Ookie from NFL football for life... I'm far more disturbed by the thought of him killing dogs that don't fight well enough to suit him than I am by the thought he might have gambled on the "festivities"...

Happily, so far their attempt to save Vick from a lifetime ban doesn't seem to be working... Goodell ain't buying what they're selling...