Tom Coughlin annoyed over non-call on Romo-Hurd TD

[Idgit]

Hard to tell out of context what might have preceded or followed this quote, but this NYFG team is about as whiny as any I can remember.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2007/09/11/2007-09-11_tom_coughlin_annoyed_over_noncall_on_rom.html?p rint=1

Tom Coughlin annoyed over non-call on Romo-Hurd TD

BY RALPH VACCHIANO

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Tuesday, September 11th 2007, 4:00 AM

According to Tom Coughlin, the 51-yard touchdown pass from Tony Romo to Sam Hurd that sealed the game for the Cowboys in the fourth quarter Sunday never should have happened.

Apparently, receiver Patrick Crayton went in motion and then took a step forward, but a penalty flag wasn't thrown.

"They've got an illegal procedure which is very obvious but is not called," Coughlin said yesterday. "It would've been interesting. It would've been third-and-12. What happens there? You're going to have to punt the ball if you don't convert. And then what happens?"

[ajk23az]

There was no doubt in my mind that Romo wouldve converted that 3rd down if it was called. :p:

[dmq]

Could have been called, but we had a few that shouldn't have been called against us too. The refs were pretty flag happy IMHO.

[heavyg]

There was no doubt in my mind that Romo wouldve converted that 3rd down if it was called. :p:

I agree. For the first time in a VERY LONG time I do not fear 3rd and long

[cleverusername]

Hard to tell out of context what might have preceded or followed this quote, but this NYFG team is about as whiny as any I can remember.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2007/09/11/2007-09-11_tom_coughlin_annoyed_over_noncall_on_rom.html?p rint=1

Tom Coughlin annoyed over non-call on Romo-Hurd TD

BY RALPH VACCHIANO

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Tuesday, September 11th 2007, 4:00 AM

According to Tom Coughlin, the 51-yard touchdown pass from Tony Romo to Sam Hurd that sealed the game for the Cowboys in the fourth quarter Sunday never should have happened.

Apparently, receiver Patrick Crayton went in motion and then took a step forward, but a penalty flag wasn't thrown.

"They've got an illegal procedure which is very obvious but is not called," Coughlin said yesterday. "It would've been interesting. It would've been third-and-12. What happens there? You're going to have to punt the ball if you don't convert. And then what happens?"



Mat McBriar puts on inside the ten, maybe five. Then three and out with Lardy McFatarse at QB?

[theogt]

If I recall correctly that was a 51 yard play. One of countless plays that were over 12 yards that we made that day. Tony completed 7 of 9 third down passes. I have no doubt that Tony would have converted a 3rd and 12 on that horrid defense.

[dmq]

I agree. For the first time in a VERY LONG time I do not fear 3rd and long


I kept thinking about how different the game would have been with Bledsoe behind center. Romo's elusiveness I think really disheartens defenses.

[numnuts23]

Then Romo would have converted a 13 yard seam to Witten up the middle.

[Kilyin]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/parenting/images/300/baby_crying_closeup.jpg

[Doomsday]

Then Romo would have converted a 13 yard seam to Witten up the middle.

Its not like they had been stopping on us all 3rd down all night anyway. A good coach wouldnt cry he would take ownership for the loss.

[Joe Rod]

"They've got an illegal procedure which is very obvious but is not called," Coughlin said yesterday. "It would've been interesting. It would've been third-and-12. What happens there? You're going to have to punt the ball if you don't convert. And then what happens?"

Then it would have been a 56 yard touchdown.

[REDVOLUTION]

Oh please....


Wade is calling a presser right now about the multiple non-calls on WARE

[garyv]

He better start worry about Fat Albert as his Starting QB LOL LOL

[ABQCOWBOY]

Then Romo would have converted a 13 yard seam to Witten up the middle.

Probably not.

If I recall, Romo averaged something like 23 per completion on Sunday night. I'd imagine he would have completed something longer then 13 but that's probably quiballing on my part.

;)

[Crown Royal]

It should have been called, but then again, when Spencer got to Eli it should have been a fumble and not a weaksauce 'shuttle pass."

[numnuts23]

Probably not.

If I recall, Romo averaged something like 23 per completion on Sunday night. I'd imagine he would have completed something longer then 13 but that's probably quiballing on my part.

;)

You know...when your right...your right....and I'll admit it...your right :)

[BrAinPaiNt]

Rumor is that Coach Gibbs phoned Tom and told him to send a video to the league office.:laugh2:

[sad_otter]

If the penalty had had anything to do with the success of the play, I can see maybe some justified complaining, but a minor non-call like that? Waaaaaaaah.

[dboyz]

The bottom line is there will be a half dozen times you can point to a call like that. Whining about those things is synonymous with losing. We would do well to keep that in mind.

I watched the play again and it is very close. Crayton basically takes a step forward. If you freeze when he takes the step forward the ball is snapped. It's a lesson for Crayton to be careful to be sure, but to me it looked like a very close play.

Another thing that I try to look at whether I feel my team is the one being harmed or not, is did the missed penalty effect the play? No it didn't. Now let's say Strahan had been blatantly held and it allowed Romo time to complete the pass. That would be a play to be upset about. But a procedure penalty. It gave the Cowboys no real advantage.

[Sasquatch]

Rumor is that Coach Gibbs phoned Tom and told him to send a video to the league office.:laugh2:

I was thinking something along those very lines.

Separated at birth?

[khiladi]

Stop whining Tom... you were clearly outcoached on that play... if you have to rely on a little move like that, your a bigger loser than I thought...

even if Patrick moved a little, it still doesn't take away from the fact that the call totally burned you, not the 'illegal' motion on Patrick...

[ThreeSportStar80]

Mat McBriar puts on inside the ten, maybe five. Then three and out with Lardy McFatarse at QB?

Dude that's a classic post right there...:lmao2:

[superpunk]

The list of things that actually don't upset Tom Coughlin is relatively short. This is just another in a long line.

[peplaw06]

I feel good about the Giants' prospects for this week if they're still talking about an illegal procedure no-call two days after the game.

[Bach]

http://www.geocities.com/scrapplelog/shockey_shocked.gif

This never gets old

[Danny White]

I noticed Crayton jump on that play, and the ref on that side definitely saw it and made a twitch towards his flag but then didn't pull it.

My guess is that there are dozens of "borderline" plays every game like this where a ref sees a hold or contact or a twitch and has to make a judgement call if it is worth throwing the flag over. I'm glad he held off in this instance!

But yeah, live and in real-time, I thought we were definitely going to get flagged on that motion.

[FCBarca]

Coughlin has his point, there's no reason to consider it 'crying' when it was a pretty clear penalty...The Cowboys dodged one there and he's also right that with a 3rd and long it could've been a very different outcome from there.

Giants played well, they can't be faulted for that...Particularly, with several of their key players out...They had no problem moving the ball on us but true, with J-Load at the helm they faced a tougher prospect of marching down the field...Then again, you never know.

So was it a key play that was missed?...My own unbiased opinion is that it was a key play...And let's face it, the Cowboys dodged several bullets in the game and there's nothing to gloat over in the win...It was ugly, especially on D.

[Crown Royal]

Coughlin has his point, there's no reason to consider it 'crying' when it was a pretty clear penalty...The Cowboys dodged one there and he's also right that with a 3rd and long it could've been a very different outcome from there.

Giants played well, they can't be faulted for that...Particularly, with several of their key players out...They had no problem moving the ball on us but true, with J-Load at the helm they faced a tougher prospect of marching down the field...Then again, you never know.

So was it a key play that was missed?...My own unbiased opinion is that it was a key play...And let's face it, the Cowboys dodged several bullets in the game and there's nothing to gloat over in the win...It was ugly, especially on D.


He should be upset - it was a clear violation of the rules verbatim. That being said, there is no indication that without that play to Hurd that the Giants would have held on to a win, or even prevented a first down. Our offense was on all cylinders.

And like I said earlier, it isn't as if that was the only missed call in the game.




I don't think the call was nearly as bad or damning to the giants as the phantom offensive pass interference on Todd Heap last night.

[khiladi]

Coughlin has his point, there's no reason to consider it 'crying' when it was a pretty clear penalty...The Cowboys dodged one there and he's also right that with a 3rd and long it could've been a very different outcome from there.

Giants played well, they can't be faulted for that...Particularly, with several of their key players out...They had no problem moving the ball on us but true, with J-Load at the helm they faced a tougher prospect of marching down the field...Then again, you never know.

So was it a key play that was missed?...My own unbiased opinion is that it was a key play...And let's face it, the Cowboys dodged several bullets in the game and there's nothing to gloat over in the win...It was ugly, especially on D.


That still doesn't change the fact that the call by Jason Garrett totally had them surprised, so he has to rely on a little move by Patrick Crayton... Note to Tom:

Hurd burned your man, not Patrick...

The whining by Tom reveals the real issue... he was paying attention to the wrong receiver on that play...

[cleverusername]

The list of things that actually don't upset Tom Coughlin is relatively short. This is just another in a long line.


Coughlin is one of the most unlikable guys in the league. Even his players don't like him.

Parcells was strict but even he was funny at times.

If I made a list of the most hate-able people associated with the NFL, he would have to be in my top five. Has anyone even seen the guy smile? Man I feel sorry for his son in law.

http://www.sportspickle.com/features/volume3/2004-0922-coughlin.jpg

[SultanOfSix]

Coughlin has his point, there's no reason to consider it 'crying' when it was a pretty clear penalty...The Cowboys dodged one there and he's also right that with a 3rd and long it could've been a very different outcome from there.

Giants played well, they can't be faulted for that...Particularly, with several of their key players out...They had no problem moving the ball on us but true, with J-Load at the helm they faced a tougher prospect of marching down the field...Then again, you never know.

So was it a key play that was missed?...My own unbiased opinion is that it was a key play...And let's face it, the Cowboys dodged several bullets in the game and there's nothing to gloat over in the win...It was ugly, especially on D.

You sound like a Giants fan.

[FCBarca]

You sound like a Giants fan.


That kind of logic got this country into more trouble than any of us bargained for...Open mindedness is liberating, try it

[theogt]

Coughlin has his point, there's no reason to consider it 'crying' when it was a pretty clear penalty...The Cowboys dodged one there and he's also right that with a 3rd and long it could've been a very different outcome from there.

Giants played well, they can't be faulted for that...Particularly, with several of their key players out...They had no problem moving the ball on us but true, with J-Load at the helm they faced a tougher prospect of marching down the field...Then again, you never know.

So was it a key play that was missed?...My own unbiased opinion is that it was a key play...And let's face it, the Cowboys dodged several bullets in the game and there's nothing to gloat over in the win...It was ugly, especially on D.Was it a big play? Yes. Did we dodge a bullet? Yes.

But did the movement have any impact whatsoever on the play and the result of the play? Absolutely not.

So what's the point?

[Doomsday101]

I would have like the refs to call some holding that the Giants were getting away with as well but that did not happen. So complain all you want Tom

[FCBarca]

Was it a big play? Yes. Did we dodge a bullet? Yes.

But did the movement have any impact whatsoever on the play and the result of the play? Absolutely not.

So what's the point?


Is that how they call penalties in the NFL now?...It doesn't impact the result of the play so don't bother calling it?...That is perhaps how it should be called but that's not how the game is called...It's the letter of the law/rules.

For example, the whole extra man on the field call...A guy running out of bounds before the ball is snapped...He isn't in the play and isn't impacting the outcome of the play but if his foot is still in bounds when that ball is snapped, that flag gets thrown.

It's just the way it is, a penalty is a penalty whether or not it would've changed the outcome.

I won't argue that it's a silly thing to call but it is what it is.

[Da Hammer]

I agree. For the first time in a VERY LONG time I do not fear 3rd and long
yea and u know wat with this offense u expect them to convert on 3rd and long with Romo throwing to all our playmakers and thats without Glenn!!! Our offense has to be top 3 in most exciting offenses in the NFL!

[Wolfpack]

Tom should compair notes with Gibbs on how to send sour grape tapes to the league.

[theogt]

Is that how they call penalties in the NFL now?...It doesn't impact the result of the play so don't bother calling it?...That is perhaps how it should be called but that's not how the game is called...It's the letter of the law/rules.

For example, the whole extra man on the field call...A guy running out of bounds before the ball is snapped...He isn't in the play and isn't impacting the outcome of the play but if his foot is still in bounds when that ball is snapped, that flag gets thrown.

It's just the way it is, a penalty is a penalty whether or not it would've changed the outcome.

I won't argue that it's a silly thing to call but it is what it is.No, it's not how they call penalties. But we're not deciding whether or not the penalty should have been called. Obviously it should have been. We're deciding whether or not anyone should give a damn whether it was called. Clearly it didn't impact the result of the play. It's a technicality that had no impact on the game other than the technicality existing itself (or in this case not existing). It's not like some holding penalty that sprung loose a long TD run.

It's also very unlikely that it would have impacted the result of the entire game had it actually been called.

[Kilyin]

Coughlin has his point, there's no reason to consider it 'crying' when it was a pretty clear penalty...The Cowboys dodged one there and he's also right that with a 3rd and long it could've been a very different outcome from there.

Giants played well, they can't be faulted for that...Particularly, with several of their key players out...They had no problem moving the ball on us but true, with J-Load at the helm they faced a tougher prospect of marching down the field...Then again, you never know.

So was it a key play that was missed?...My own unbiased opinion is that it was a key play...And let's face it, the Cowboys dodged several bullets in the game and there's nothing to gloat over in the win...It was ugly, especially on D.

Dodged several bullets? Like what?

And as far as the rest of your garbage, it ain't cheatin' unless you get caught. It's not the Cowboys fault the ref didn't throw the flag, and no amount of pissing and moaning by Coughlin is going to make a magical fairy named Mike Perreira float down from the heavens and give him a 'do-over'.

Point being, he should be a man, suck it up, and play better next time, so he won't have to cry about a flag that didn't get thrown.

[FCBarca]

No, it's not how they call penalties. But we're not deciding whether or not the penalty should have been called. Obviously it should have been. We're deciding whether or not anyone should give a damn whether it was called. Clearly it didn't impact the result of the play. It's a technicality that had no impact on the game other than the technicality existing itself (or in this case not existing). It's not like some holding penalty that sprung loose a long TD run.

It's also very unlikely that it would have impacted the result of the entire game had it actually been called.

This is what you said, initially.

But did the movement have any impact whatsoever on the play and the result of the play? Absolutely not.

So what's the point?

My response was about whether the impact has any bearing on whether a penalty should be called or not...It doesn't, a penalty is a penalty...This kind of no impact penalty happens in just about every game.

And it being 'unlikely that it would have impacted the result of the entire game had it actually been called' is Cowboy bias, let's face it....It was 3rd down at a crucial juncture in the game as the gap was only a FG...Failure to convert in a 3rd and long and the ball goes back to NYG with plenty of time to tie or go ahead rather than being down 10 pts as the resulting no call turned out...So, intimating it is unlikely is a stretch...The sequence of events that could've followed would've completely changed...It was a pivotal noncall.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Rumor is that Coach Gibbs phoned Tom and told him to send a video to the league office.:laugh2:

Probably sent him media to lay it down with too.

Of course, knowing Gibby, it was probably a VCR tape.

:laugh2:

[cleverusername]

Is that how they call penalties in the NFL now?...It doesn't impact the result of the play so don't bother calling it?...That is perhaps how it should be called but that's not how the game is called...It's the letter of the law/rules.

For example, the whole extra man on the field call...A guy running out of bounds before the ball is snapped...He isn't in the play and isn't impacting the outcome of the play but if his foot is still in bounds when that ball is snapped, that flag gets thrown.

It's just the way it is, a penalty is a penalty whether or not it would've changed the outcome.

I won't argue that it's a silly thing to call but it is what it is.

Maybe you and Tom "the feur" Coughlin could sit down and review the game, going through all the other "none calls" for the giants. Then you could co-write a letter to the commish. I think that would be fair. -- And then maybe Tom " I hate the world" Coughlin would be happy.


:clap:

[REDVOLUTION]

You sound like a Giants fan.

LOL.... you picking that up too....

[REDVOLUTION]

Oh please....


Wade is calling a presser right now about the multiple non-calls on WARE

I would have like the refs to call some holding that the Giants were getting away with as well but that did not happen. So complain all you want Tom


Uh....... Bump

[ScipioCowboy]

That kind of logic got this country into more trouble than any of us bargained for...Open mindedness is liberating, try it

Actually, it was an inability to interpret warning signs that initially wetted the mud in which our country is now steeped. Let's not be open minded to the point our brains fall out. We should be fair and judicious while simultaneously willing to call a spade for what it is.

[cleverusername]

LOL.... you picking that up too....





Or maybe it's Tom " why do I always look like I just crapped my pants" Coughlin, himself. :laugh2:



http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/060918/s_giants_post_060918.vsmall.jpg



In that case.


:suxjints: :giants:

[FCBarca]

Dodged several bullets? Like what?

And as far as the rest of your garbage, it ain't cheatin' unless you get caught. It's not the Cowboys fault the ref didn't throw the flag, and no amount of pissing and moaning by Coughlin is going to make a magical fairy named Mike Perreira float down from the heavens and give him a 'do-over'.

Point being, he should be a man, suck it up, and play better next time, so he won't have to cry about a flag that didn't get thrown.


I can think of several bullets...Losing Eli and having to go with an untested QB was one dodged bullet had the gap not been 10 and just 3 with plenty of time in the 4th...The D was stopping no one....Reeves' INT when the WR slipped, a little bit of luck helped us there for another one and it ended up resulting in a TD...Throw in the missed penalty, that's three key plays right there that add up to a lot of points.

And 'it ain't cheatin unless u get caught'?...Are you 10?

And the point of the thread has been about whether or not the penalty would've amounted to anything, and it would've...Imagine the scenario exactly the same but switch the teams around and it was NY that benefitted...It'd be a recurring complaint from coaches and fans alike...Penalty is a penalty...Gloating that it didn't get called doesn't change that.

We dodged one there and I'm thankful we did but it wasn't something insignificant...It could've changed the game

[1fisher]

Mat McBriar puts on inside the ten, maybe five. Then three and out with Lardy McFatarse at QB?


:muttley:


Good Lardy Mrs. Clardy :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[FCBarca]

Actually, it was an inability to interpret warning signs that initially wetted the mud in which our country is now steeped. Let's not be open minded to the point our brains fall out. We should be fair and judicious while simultaneously willing to call a spade for what it is.

Right, because a fan calling a spade for what it is makes him a fan of the opposition...Sounds like precisely the faulty logic I mentioned earlier, if you're not with us you're against us...Winning logic :rolleyes:

[pancakeman]

Mat McBriar puts on inside the ten, maybe five. Then three and out with Lardy McFatarse at QB?

:muttley:

[dbair1967]

hey Tom, I wonder how many successful Giants offensive plays should have been negated by holding calls that were somehow missed

I mean come on, if football were like basketball, Kareem McKenzie and that guy playing LT would have fouled out before halftime

David

[theogt]

This is what you said, initially.I know what I said.

My response was about whether the impact has any bearing on whether a penalty should be called or not...It doesn't, a penalty is a penalty...This kind of no impact penalty happens in just about every game.And we're not discussing whether it should have been called. A monkey can see that it should have been called. Every penalty should be called.

What we're discussing is whether anyone should give a damn that it wasn't called. It was pure technicality that had no impact on the play.

And it being 'unlikely that it would have impacted the result of the entire game had it actually been called' is Cowboy bias, let's face it....It was 3rd down at a crucial juncture in the game as the gap was only a FG...Failure to convert in a 3rd and long and the ball goes back to NYG with plenty of time to tie or go ahead rather than being down 10 pts as the resulting no call turned out...So, intimating it is unlikely is a stretch...The sequence of events that could've followed would've completely changed...It was a pivotal noncall.Cowboys bias? That's laughable. How about Tony Romo having completed 6 of his 8 passes on 3rd down (excluding the play in question which puts it at 7 of 9). How about the Cowboys having scored on 6 of 8 of their drives up to that point? How about Lorenzen going 3 and out on his only drive?

What on earth makes you think that (1) the Giants would have been able to move the ball 80+ yards for a touchdown, and (2) the Cowboys wouldn't have scored when they received the ball back.

Cowboys bias. Please, keep your mouth shut if you're going to say stupid **** like that.

[superpunk]

A new York style bbgun?

I'm giddy with the possibilities.

[REDVOLUTION]

Right, because a fan calling a spade for what it is makes him a fan of the opposition...Sounds like precisely the faulty logic I mentioned earlier, if you're not with us you're against us...Winning logic :rolleyes:


I like the RED and BLUE that your avatar guy is wearing.

[SultanOfSix]

Right, because a fan calling a spade for what it is makes him a fan of the opposition...Sounds like precisely the faulty logic I mentioned earlier, if you're not with us you're against us...Winning logic :rolleyes:

Not really. Calling yourself "objective" and "unbiased" when your post isn't.

All I see is excuses given for the Giants play and how we dodged a bullet. You mention how many injuries the Giants had, but what about all the injuries to the 'Boys?

You're talking about suppositions where Giants could have come back if the penalty was called.

What about suppositions where it didn't matter for the Cowboys if the penalty was still called. What if the 'Boys still called the same play and converted on 3rd and 12 instead of 3rd and 7?

Like I said. You sound like a Giants fan because you're giving every possible excuse for them while not allowing the same type of logic to be applied to the 'Boys.

[ScipioCowboy]

Right, because a fan calling a spade for what it is makes him a fan of the opposition...Sounds like precisely the faulty logic I mentioned earlier, if you're not with us you're against us...Winning logic :rolleyes:

Actually, I never once addressed the previous poster's assertions about your team affiliation. I was addressing your comment about our country's current problems and, in the process, extoling the virtue of being fair and judicious.

How anyone's comments here can be interpretted as "you're either with me or against me" is utterly baffling.

Frankly, it's ironic that you would castigate others for a lack of openmindedness when you're being extremely reactionary.

[Rackat]

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/060918/s_giants_post_060918.vsmall.jpg
"...and after that non-call on Crayton, I crapped my pants. This look on my face is because I am required to sit here and talk to the media and I haven't been in the lockerroom yet to change."

[cleverusername]

http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/060918/s_giants_post_060918.vsmall.jpg
"...and after that non-call on Crayton, I crapped my pants. This look on my face is because I am required to sit here and talk to the media and I haven't been in the lockerroom yet to change."


:laugh2: :laugh1: :lmao2: :lmao:

[REDVOLUTION]

All I see is excuses given for the Giants play and how we dodged a bullet. You mention how many injuries the Giants had, but what about all the injuries to the 'Boys?




We started the game with 3 major injuries and then added another during

Terry Glenn
Greg Ellis
Terrence Newman
Jason FergusonTheir injuries didnt happen until after the game was started

Jacobs
Umenyiora
Manning

[justbob]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/parenting/images/300/baby_crying_closeup.jpg

Remember --there is no crying in football

[Doomsday101]

We started the game with 3 major injuries and then added another during

Terry Glenn
Greg Ellis
Terrence Newman
Jason FergusonTheir injuries didnt happen until after the game was started

Jacobs
Umenyiora
Manning

I guess with all of our injuries heading into the game I forgot to cry about the Giants injuries. :laugh2: I kept thinking that as Madden and Michaels continued to bring up the Giant injuries and how big a win it would be if they were able to overcome these injuries.

[CaptainAmerica]

I kept thinking about how different the game would have been with Bledsoe behind center. Romo's elusiveness I think really disheartens defenses.

Elusiveness but more importantly his quick decisions and quick release.

Also, if Bledsoe were still under center we would all be in here the day after the game debating and arguing about why our offensive line was so bad. :D

[REDVOLUTION]

Elusiveness but more importantly his quick decisions and quick release.



AND.... AND.... his knack for throwing on 3rd downs and getting 1st downs :D

[zeromaster]

"They've got an illegal procedure which is very obvious but is not called," Coughlin said yesterday. "It would've been interesting. It would've been third-and-12. What happens there? You're going to have to punt the ball if you don't convert. And then what happens?"
You LOSE!!
Good day, sir.

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Gene-Wilder---Willy-Wonka-the-Chocolate-Factory-Photograph-C10103080.jpeg

[Zimmy Lives]

Leave the poor guy alone. No one likes him, he's about to lose his job because there is no one else to blame, and his team will sell him out in an instant. The way I see it he's entitled.

[zrinkill]

I am annoyed over all the non holding calls on Giants O-linemen playing Ware and Spencer.

[cowboys19]

why is he complaining about the non-call. He should be worried that an undrafted QB, and an undrafted WR burned the Giants Defense, for the game clinching TD.

[REDVOLUTION]

why is he complaining about the non-call. He should be worried that an undrafted QB, and an undrafted WR burned the Giants Defense, for the game clinching TD.


LOL

The "Undrafted" Closers :laugh1:

[Jay-D]

Tom Coughlin is a joke and always has been. I don't know how he keeps his job.

That being said......I bet he gets canned or resigns before the end of this season.

[Hoofbite]

while it sucks that it wasn't called, it was as far from the action of the play as possible and had no effect on the play. It gave no help to anyone and those sort of things happen. I thought I saw a thing or two that should have been called and they weren't. Sucks when it happens to you but thats how it is.

[DonnyA22]

Coughlin doesn't deserve to whine about this. Maybe he should get mad at his DC and not the officials, the officials didn't give up 45 points.

Anyway, maybe he was quick to forget the lucky break he got against us in '05 when Aaron Glenn was flagged for interference on a Keith Davis interception that might have allowed us to come back but it was clearly shown on replay that it was Plax who interfered with Glenn.

Blown calls are a part of the game. Some weeks it works for you and some weeks it doesn't. Him and the Giants fans need to deal with it and stop making excuses for their crybaby filled team.

[RomoIsBack]

Mat McBriar puts on inside the ten, maybe five. Then three and out with Lardy McFatarse at QB?

tom must of 4got eli was out

[deepBLUE]

we get our fair share of bad calls (ref. last season)........coughlin didnt mind the ones in his favor...........:lmao2:

[starfrombirth]

why is he complaining about the non-call. He should be worried that an undrafted QB, and an undrafted WR burned the Giants Defense, for the game clinching TD.

I hadn't thought of it in exactly those terms but ... "You are correct Sir!":cool:

[FCBarca]

I know what I said.

And we're not discussing whether it should have been called. A monkey can see that it should have been called. Every penalty should be called.

What we're discussing is whether anyone should give a damn that it wasn't called. It was pure technicality that had no impact on the play.

Cowboys bias? That's laughable. How about Tony Romo having completed 6 of his 8 passes on 3rd down (excluding the play in question which puts it at 7 of 9). How about the Cowboys having scored on 6 of 8 of their drives up to that point? How about Lorenzen going 3 and out on his only drive?

What on earth makes you think that (1) the Giants would have been able to move the ball 80+ yards for a touchdown, and (2) the Cowboys wouldn't have scored when they received the ball back.

Cowboys bias. Please, keep your mouth shut if you're going to say stupid **** like that.


Again, faulty logic...Lacing it with profanities, merely repeating yourself or predicating your argument on statistics that have nothing to do with the what did and did not occur is futile...3rd down and long at that juncture in the game and it could've been a different game...Romo could've made a great play and maybe he wouldn't have...Could've gotten an INT, etc...A lot of things could've happened...But that WAS a crucial juncture in the game being up only a FG...Build your argument on facts not inane banter

[FCBarca]

I like the RED and BLUE that your avatar guy is wearing.


Henry 'Henke' Larsson during Championship season for the red and blue of FC Barcelona...I like it too

[theogt]

Again, faulty logic...Lacing it with profanities, merely repeating yourself or predicating your argument on statistics that have nothing to do with the what did and did not occur is futile...3rd down and long at that juncture in the game and it could've been a different game...Romo could've made a great play and maybe he wouldn't have...Could've gotten an INT, etc...A lot of things could've happened...But that WAS a crucial juncture in the game being up only a FG...Build your argument on facts not inane banterOf course a lot of things could have happened. My point was what would have probably happened, which is why the statistics were relevant.

The rest of your post is worthless gibberish.

[FCBarca]

Not really. Calling yourself "objective" and "unbiased" when your post isn't.

All I see is excuses given for the Giants play and how we dodged a bullet. You mention how many injuries the Giants had, but what about all the injuries to the 'Boys?

You're talking about suppositions where Giants could have come back if the penalty was called.

What about suppositions where it didn't matter for the Cowboys if the penalty was still called. What if the 'Boys still called the same play and converted on 3rd and 12 instead of 3rd and 7?

Like I said. You sound like a Giants fan because you're giving every possible excuse for them while not allowing the same type of logic to be applied to the 'Boys.

If I'm a Cowboy fan and I confirm that a missed penalty call is a penalty call somehow that constitutes bias?...Ugghhh, yeah, sounds like great logic to me.

If the Cowboys got into 3rd and long, yeah, maybe they don't make that connection on the Hurd play...maybe they do...The point is, that penalty would've prevented the TD and given the Giant defense another shot at stopping Romo & Co...A scenario that AT LEAST was better than a TD that resulted...How is that supposition or anything but fact?...Come on, get with the program people...It is what it is.

I see things for what they are, regardless of who it benefits...I see a missed penalty and I think A) We got lucky that it wasn't called and B) Realize that NY were a bit hosed on that call...If it had been the reverse (Stay with me now), I'd still feel the same way about it...And I'm guessin the rest of you myopic 'fans' would as well...THAT, as they say demonstrates who maintains bias and who is actually seeing things for what they are.

[FCBarca]

Actually, I never once addressed the previous poster's assertions about your team affiliation. I was addressing your comment about our country's current problems and, in the process, extoling the virtue of being fair and judicious.

How anyone's comments here can be interpretted as "you're either with me or against me" is utterly baffling.

Frankly, it's ironic that you would castigate others for a lack of openmindedness when you're being extremely reactionary.


When you can't even point out a lucky break for 'our' team and not be considered a 'traitor' then yeah, there's closed mindedness on the forum...When others attempt to pile on and imply that this kind of logic is something to be celebrated rather than admonished (i.e. country's current problems, i.e. Bush) then the only baffling element to all of this is to somehow defend it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Tom Coughlin is a joke and always has been. I don't know how he keeps his job.

That being said......I bet he gets canned or resigns before the end of this season.

well the guy has put together a VERY good offense. Eli has been coming along, he turned tikis career around and has seen players like Shockey and Burress progress. He has put together one of the best olines in football over the last several years.

The guy can flat out coach offense and if hes fired i expect hell be out of a job for a VERY short time if he continues to coach. Now he has a bunch of malcontents and loudmouths on his team but he is a VERY good coach.

[Don Corleone]

Well, I've seen many BS calls destroy us in the last 10 years, so I'm not going to feel guilty if a few go our way for a change.

[Teague31]

what the hell is coughlin talking about? just watched the hurd TD again.. he does not go in motion and certainly does not jump early.

[FCBarca]

what the hell is coughlin talking about? just watched the hurd TD again.. he does not go in motion and certainly does not jump early.


Watch again but watch the bottom of the screen, it's Crayton that goes in motion.

[Don Corleone]

Watch again but watch the bottom of the screen, it's Crayton that goes in motion.

Well, maybe Crayton thought this is the Arena League. The scoreboard seemed to indicate Arena League quality football.

[FCBarca]

Well, maybe Crayton thought this is the Arena League. The scoreboard seemed to indicate Arena League quality football.

One of the buddies I was watching the game with is Canadian, he didn't notice it either.:D

[SultanOfSix]

If I'm a Cowboy fan and I confirm that a missed penalty call is a penalty call somehow that constitutes bias?...Ugghhh, yeah, sounds like great logic to me.

If the Cowboys got into 3rd and long, yeah, maybe they don't make that connection on the Hurd play...maybe they do...The point is, that penalty would've prevented the TD and given the Giant defense another shot at stopping Romo & Co...A scenario that AT LEAST was better than a TD that resulted...How is that supposition or anything but fact?...Come on, get with the program people...It is what it is.

I see things for what they are, regardless of who it benefits...I see a missed penalty and I think A) We got lucky that it wasn't called and B) Realize that NY were a bit hosed on that call...If it had been the reverse (Stay with me now), I'd still feel the same way about it...And I'm guessin the rest of you myopic 'fans' would as well...THAT, as they say demonstrates who maintains bias and who is actually seeing things for what they are.

No. What you're doing is making excuses. Ware was being held consistently. Why weren't they called? They're penalties.

Who's to say the Cowboys would even be in that position at the end of the game if those were called?

All you're talking about is possibilities. This game wasn't atrociously reffed. Every game will have missed calls, that will result in more or less opportunities for the other team. As long as there is no selective reffing - and such a situation can be judged - then it is what it is. The good teams fight through them. The losers make excuses. IMO, I've seen more excuses for the Giants from you that what I would deem objective analysis.

[FCBarca]

No. What you're doing is making excuses. Ware was being held consistently. Why weren't they called? They're penalties.

Who's to say the Cowboys would even be in that position at the end of the game if those were called?

All you're talking about is possibilities. This game wasn't atrociously reffed. Every game will have missed calls, that will result in more or less opportunities for the other team. As long as there is no selective reffing - and such a situation can be judged - then it is what it is. The good teams fight through them. The losers make excuses. IMO, I've seen more excuses for the Giants from you that what I would deem objective analysis.

My advice, take a logics course at the local JC...Thread was about a particular penalty that was missed on a crucial play at a crucial juncture in the game and you bring up Ware and holds that were not called?...Yeah, not logical senor.

Blown calls on critical plays in games are far more scrutinized then are innocuous plays that figure far less prominently in the final result and that particular play was critical from both perspectives...A hold call in the 2nd quarter on Ware where nothing was gained or lost at the time hardly compares nevermind that it has NOTHING to do with the initial point.

[zeromaster]

Henry 'Henke' Larsson during Championship season for the red and blue of FC Barcelona...I like it too
Do you obsess this much over soccer matches? I'll bet that Madrid championship must have really stung...

[FCBarca]

Do you obsess this much over soccer matches? I'll bet that Madrid championship must have really stung...

Over futbol matches?...A bad call, sure...And, yes, RM winning stings...Less so considering very few, apart from Cules, truly believe them to be superior to the Blaugrana

[SultanOfSix]

My advice, take a logics course at the local JC...Thread was about a particular penalty that was missed on a crucial play at a crucial juncture in the game and you bring up Ware and holds that were not called?...Yeah, not logical senor.

Blown calls on critical plays in games are far more scrutinized then are innocuous plays that figure far less prominently in the final result and that particular play was critical from both perspectives...A hold call in the 2nd quarter on Ware where nothing was gained or lost at the time hardly compares nevermind that it has NOTHING to do with the initial point.

You're original post:

"Coughlin has his point, there's no reason to consider it 'crying' when it was a pretty clear penalty...The Cowboys dodged one there and he's also right that with a 3rd and long it could've been a very different outcome from there.

Giants played well, they can't be faulted for that...Particularly, with several of their key players out...They had no problem moving the ball on us but true, with J-Load at the helm they faced a tougher prospect of marching down the field...Then again, you never know.

So was it a key play that was missed?...My own unbiased opinion is that it was a key play...And let's face it, the Cowboys dodged several bullets in the game and there's nothing to gloat over in the win...It was ugly, especially on D."

Yeah, it was a key play because we scored. So what?

Notice the use of positive suppositions with respect to the Giants, whereas it's seemingly the Cowboys somehow "dodging" stuff.

You sound like a Giants fan making excuses for them.

And that's my "unbiased" opinion.

Edit: BTW, I didn't say you were a Giants fan. I just said you sound like one.

[FCBarca]

You're original post:

"Coughlin has his point, there's no reason to consider it 'crying' when it was a pretty clear penalty...The Cowboys dodged one there and he's also right that with a 3rd and long it could've been a very different outcome from there.

Giants played well, they can't be faulted for that...Particularly, with several of their key players out...They had no problem moving the ball on us but true, with J-Load at the helm they faced a tougher prospect of marching down the field...Then again, you never know.

So was it a key play that was missed?...My own unbiased opinion is that it was a key play...And let's face it, the Cowboys dodged several bullets in the game and there's nothing to gloat over in the win...It was ugly, especially on D."

Yeah, it was a key play because we scored. So what?

Notice the use of positive suppositions with respect to the Giants, whereas it's seemingly the Cowboys somehow "dodging" stuff.

You sound like a Giants fan making excuses for them.

And that's my "unbiased" opinion.


Had the penalty been called and Dallas not scored the TD to go up 10 late in the 4th, they would've faced 3rd and 12...Giants also would've been aware of the possibility of a quick strike as it had just been called...So, even with our better than 50% 3rd down completion is this not now a higher pressure scenario having just had the TD called back?...No completion, pts off the board and NY with the ball back...That's just a reality...Maybe we score again or maybe we get the 1st down but that doesn't change how the missed call was a key issue that Coughlin raised...It had been my contention all along that it was a key noncall, it doesn't equate to losing the ball game but it would've made the game tighter...That's simply a fact, not opinion.

When J-Load took over eventually, after the TD, the Giants faced 2 scores to get back into the game...Had the TD not been successful, it would've been a drastically different scenario for all the Giants involved to need just a FG...That too is a fact.

It isn't supposition when dodging is exactly what happened with the noncall...It's not a point of contention about the missed penalty, it was a missed penalty...It would've created a different scenario had it been correctly called...Yes, it happens in football but that doesn't change the fact (Not supposition) that it was not called.

To then go on and state that it wouldn't have mattered anyway because we 'likely' would've converted on 3rd and long was clearly biased...It would've presented a difficult situation in a difficult point in the game....To say that scenario is a likely scenario for any team in that situation would be overly biased...It's a difficult scenario to say the least.

There are no certainties to which way it would've gone had the penalty been called but it clearly afforded the Giants a better shot at tying or winning...That too is merely a fact, regardless of how you look at it.

And, again, the irony is that if this situation were reversed the same poorly constructed logicians on here would be complaining about how Dallas got screwed by the refs...Yet, somehow that would make YOU a Cowboy fan...Genius logic.

[SultanOfSix]

Had the penalty been called and Dallas not scored the TD to go up 10 late in the 4th, they would've faced 3rd and 12...Giants also would've been aware of the possibility of a quick strike as it had just been called...So, even with our better than 50% 3rd down completion is this not now a higher pressure scenario having just had the TD called back?...No completion, pts off the board and NY with the ball back...That's just a reality...Maybe we score again or maybe we get the 1st down but that doesn't change how the missed call was a key issue that Coughlin raised...It had been my contention all along that it was a key noncall, it doesn't equate to losing the ball game but it would've made the game tighter...That's simply a fact, not opinion.

When J-Load took over eventually, after the TD, the Giants faced 2 scores to get back into the game...Had the TD not been successful, it would've been a drastically different scenario for all the Giants involved to need just a FG...That too is a fact.

It isn't supposition when dodging is exactly what happened with the noncall...It's not a point of contention about the missed penalty, it was a missed penalty...It would've created a different scenario had it been correctly called...Yes, it happens in football but that doesn't change the fact (Not supposition) that it was not called.

To then go on and state that it wouldn't have mattered anyway because we 'likely' would've converted on 3rd and long was clearly biased...It would've presented a difficult situation in a difficult point in the game....To say that scenario is a likely scenario for any team in that situation would be overly biased...It's a difficult scenario to say the least.

There are no certainties to which way it would've gone had the penalty been called but it clearly afforded the Giants a better shot at tying or winning...That too is merely a fact, regardless of how you look at it.

And, again, the irony is that if this situation were reversed the same poorly constructed logicians on here would be complaining about how Dallas got screwed by the refs...Yet, somehow that would make YOU a Cowboy fan...Genius logic.

I never claimed that you were a Giants fan. I said you sound like one.

You still don't get it. You're arguing over possibilities that only promote scenarios that make it a positive outcome for the Giants. It makes you sound like a Giants fan. Yeah, a penalty that happened wasn't called. So what? Sometimes penalties are missed, and like you said critical ones that have an impact on the game are scrutinized more. However, did this non-call really have an impact on the game?

Would the missed penalty have had an impact on the play as it played out, like a pass interference or a holding that prevented a sack? No. It seems like you're an absolutist when it comes to defending your point. It's ok to take away the play. But it's not ok consider the fact that it had no impact on the play except for the fact that it negates the play because it's a penalty.

You use this same type of reasoning throughout your posts when your defending the idea that the Giants would have had a better chance to win.

Of course they would. Any dummy can see that. It would have taken seven points off the board. And if they stopped us on 3rd and 12 then they would have gotten the ball. And if they drove down the field, they would have only to have had to kick a field goal. Or maybe fat boy QB could have thrown a TD bomb to Plaxico and they would have won.

Ifs are useless.

[ScipioCowboy]

When you can't even point out a lucky break for 'our' team and not be considered a 'traitor' then yeah, there's closed mindedness on the forum...When others attempt to pile...

Actually, it's called disagreement, not "piling on." When you post on a forum such as this, you must expect that people will eventually disagree with you.

Believe it or not, a person can suggest you sound like a Giant fan (even in a heated manner) without meaning "you're either with me or against me." That you regard team affiliation as some great metaphorical dividing line drawn in the sand speaks volumes about you.

Also, a few people on a message board are not necessarily microcosmic of the entire country.

Bush is certainly guilty of more than one logical fallacy and numerous mistakes, but Lefty has definite problems of his own, such as his complete inability to take criticism or to engage in a constructive exchange of opposing ideas without indulging his own unwarranted sense of elitism.