Belicheat fined 500,000 and draft choices...*Merge*

[superpunk]

500k fine for Bill

250k for Pats

2008 1st rounder IF they make playoffs.

Per ESPN, gamebreak during Terps game.

Pathetic. Fire the commissioner now.

[lspain1]

Belichick fined $500K

Club fined $250K

Forfeit 2008 1st Round Pick if they make playoffs

Forfeit 2008 2nd and 3rd round if they don't

[dogunwo]

Worst judgment ever.

[CowboyWay]

Love the fine, love the loss of the draft pick.............BUT NO SUSPENSION for Belicheck???? GETTHEHELLOUTTAHERE

Wade Wilson gets 4 games for trying to get a woodie, and belicheck flat out CHEATS???? And no suspension????? Bush League.

[Big Dakota]

Let the outrage begin.

[theogt]

What a joke. The commish is a joke.

[dogunwo]

I would have been more accepting if it were just game suspensions of at least 5. Screw the draft picks. They are almost meaningless to the Pats anyway

[sacase]

THis is PURE BS. Goddell is getting a letter over this crap. How can you suspend Wade Wilson for 5 games and not suspend Bellicheat.

[David276]

are you freaking serious

if this happened to our boys wade would be suspended half a season and jerry would be fined a million. and TO would probably just get a fine also .

[Cbz40]

No suspension......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(

[Jay-D]

They lose 2nd and 3rd round picks if they DON'T make the playoffs.

Regardless......this is a wimpy punishment. The commish fails on this one.

[HighTechDave]

The NFL has fined Patriots coach Bill Belichick the maximum of $500,000 and stripped the team of its 2008 first-round draft pick for violating league policy on the use of video equipment on the sidelines

Yup, just saw it on NFL.com, and I call BS as Bill is not the voice of the NFL

[Hostile]

No way.

[superpunk]

What a joke. The commish is a joke.

If people didn't get it before...

[Mattinus]

No suspension? I hate it too but maybe the commish was trying to keep the course of the season from changing MORE because of this.
Its obvious the 500k fine to the coach means he knows who is responsible. Personally I'd rather see BB ridiculed and smirked at then just miss 5 games.

[Big Dakota]

I new there would be no suspension, even though i said 1 game. The commish wants to brush this under the rug, not stir it up by dragging the story out every time the Pats played without cheat.

[Ashwynn]

Love the fine, love the loss of the draft pick.............BUT NO SUSPENSION for Belicheck???? GETTHEHELLOUTTAHERE

Wade Wilson gets 4 games for trying to get a woodie, and belicheck flat out CHEATS???? And no suspension????? Bush League.

:hammer:

[CaptainAmerica]

He's friends with Kraft. What a joke!! Wilson better be on the phone appealing his suspension.

[REDVOLUTION]

No suspension?

Well I may have been able to live with that if Wilson didnt get hammered with 5 games.

[McCordsville Cowboy]

Wade gets 5 games for trying to get a 'rise' and Little Bill gets 500k.

Thats wack.

[jackrussell]

Belichick fined $500K

Club fined $250K

Forfeit 2008 1st Round Pick if they make playoffs

Forfeit 2008 2nd and 3rd round if they don't

Obviously found guilty of cheating...yet noone was suspended.

This looks like a job for The Draconian Vigilante Squad.

We'd get it right.

[Mattinus]

No suspension?

Well I may have been able to live with that if Wilson didnt get hammered with 5 games.

Agreed. Really my only problem with this is the fact that Wilson got suspended. I would LOVE to see BB suspended 5 games but do you know what I'd like even more?

To see the Pats fall on their faces the rest of the season, lose some big games in the fourth quarter without their "edge" and "strategy".

[Crown Royal]

I like the personal fine to Belichek. I would have liked a 1st and third fine. I think that the Pats as an organization should have been fined MUCH more than a league minimum player's contract.

And we are all in agreement that Belichek should have been suspended. I disagree with the likes of Zaxor and Superpunk on the length, but 3-5 games would have been just.

[CaptainAmerica]

Also the Pats had 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS so it's really not as bad as it seems. They will probably be giving up the lower of the 2 first round picks they had!

[sago1]

This is a joke isn't it? Belicheck gets fined a measly $500,000. That's a drop in the pocket to a multi millionaire like Belicheck.

[Q_the_man]

500k fine for Bill

250k for Pats

2008 1st rounder IF they make playoffs.

Per ESPN, gamebreak during Terps game.

Pathetic. Fire the commissioner now.
Just think what the auto racing McClerin team must feel like they were fined 100 million dollars today for cheating :rolleyes:

[Big Dakota]

Also the Pats had 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS so it's really not as bad as it seems. They will probably be giving up the lower of the 2 first round picks they had!


That would be my guess.

[lspain1]

Obviously found guilty of cheating...yet noone was suspended.

This looks like a job for The Draconian Vigilante Squad.

We'd get it right.

I really don't understand why there wasn't a suspension along with the fine. I guess the logic is that Belichick didn't do it himself....and that seems like a pretty lame excuse given Belichick WAS the person responsible.

[gbrittain]

I would love to hear Goodells explanation as to why Wade got 5 games and Bill got nothing.

Bad, very bad judgement.

[Mattinus]

Also the Pats had 2 FIRST ROUND PICKS so it's really not as bad as it seems. They will probably be giving up the lower of the 2 first round picks they had!

Of course they will give up the lower one. Unless they have the Colts or the Cowboys (wink wink) pick. They will give up THEIR pick, not the pick of the team they traded too.

[Big Dakota]

This is a joke isn't it? Belicheck gets fined a measly $500,000. That's a drop in the pocket to a multi millionaire like Belicheck.


And you know Kraft will pay it.

[superpunk]

I like the personal fine to Belichek. I would have liked a 1st and third fine. I think that the Pats as an organization should have been fined MUCH more than a league minimum player's contract.

And we are all in agreement that Belichek should have been suspended. I disagree with the likes of Zaxor and Superpunk on the length, but 3-5 games would have been just.

How would that have been "just", considering the precedent set for suspending a coach - a coach who violated a rule, but wasn't gaining a competitive advantage, and did nothing to effect the league?

How in the world would it have been just for the two to get even the SAME punishment?

Bellichick's violation was far more egregious.

[speedkilz88]

Someone needs to shoot the commish an e-mail demanding that he reinstate Wade Wilson because apparently coaches aren't held to a higher standard.

[Big Dakota]

I would love to hear Goodells explanation as to why Wade got 5 games and Bill got nothing.

Bad, very bad judgement.

You know what he's gonna say. Wade broke the law, stealing signs isn't breaking the law. I don't really agree, but that's what he'll say.

[StanleySpadowski]

Half a million??? That's pocketchange. Belicheat reportly spent more than that on the skank he was whoring around with's apartment.

[Hypnotoad]

NFL.com banner is reporting:

The NFL has fined Patriots coach Bill Belichick the maximum of $500,000 and stripped the team of its 2008 first-round draft pick for violating league policy on the use of video equipment on the sidelines.

[Mattinus]

You know what he's gonna say. Wade broke the law, stealing signs isn't breaking the law. I don't really agree, but that's what he'll say.

Its also a valid point as much as I hate it.

[CaptainAmerica]

That would be my guess.

Sure it will because they will be giving up their own pick and the pick they had from another team was from a team that as I recall probably won't have a great record this year. (I forget the team).

[sago1]

I think the Cowboys ought to approach the Commish on behalf of Wade Wilson and ask again if its right for him to get a 5 game suspension and Belicheck gets nothing. Also Wilson got a $100,000 fine which is probably close to half his salary while $500,000 probably isn't 1/4 of what he makes.

Never thought this Commish wouldn't at least suspend him for 1 game.

Well at least now we know who owns the NFL. Maybe we should start calling it as it really is - Kraft's Own.

[HighTechDave]

I think the Cowboys ought to approach the Commish on behalf of Wade Wilson and ask again if its right for him to get a 5 game suspension and Belicheck gets nothing. Also Wilson got a $100,000 fine which is probably close to half his salary while $500,000 probably isn't 1/4 of what he makes.

Never thought this Commish wouldn't at least suspend him for 1 game.

Well at least now we know who owns the NFL. Maybe we should start calling it as it really is - Kraft's Own.


dude, totally agree!

[Nors]

Losing a first round draft pick is pretty harsh.

I do think they could have sent a sterner message with a suspension.

[sago1]

Does anybody think for a minute that this will stop Belicheck? Heck no. There's is nothing more then a wrist slap. Had the Cowboys been found guilty of this there would have been demands for Jerry to give up the Cowboys, etc.

[Cajuncowboy]

This really smells like playing favorites to me. Worst call of his short tenure as commish.

Just plain awful!

Wait a minute! They lose a draft pick only if they make the playoffs?

Wow! Just Wow!

[Mattinus]

Again, the real punishment takes care of itself.
The crime was disgusting from a sport lovers standpoint but the real punishment will be the public ridicule if they don't do well this year, or if they lose close games.

[ZeroClub]

You know, I thinks this shows how Goodell went way over top with the penalty he gave Wilson....

[Tex]

I can not believe there was no suspension and Wade got 5 games. Unbelievable!

Tex

[Big Dakota]

Sure it will because they will be giving up their own pick and the pick they had from another team was from a team that as I recall probably won't have a great record this year. (I forget the team).


It's from SF who should be 8-8 and picking in the teens, and lets hope the commish takes that pick.

[Mattinus]

You know, I thinks this shows how Goodell went way over top with the penalty he gave Wilson....

I think this is all it REALLY shows.

[Vertigo_17]

:puke:

[REDVOLUTION]

You know what he's gonna say. Wade broke the law, stealing signs isn't breaking the law. I don't really agree, but that's what he'll say.


I agree that its not the same but thats where my agreement ends.

The integrity of the game... the unfair competitive advantage, cheating. This is of Pete Rose proportions. I am not comparing the events... I am merely pointing out there severity to the game.

Bottom line: Games were won via cheating. This cannot be denied.

All the SB losers vs. the Pats have legitimate "hmmm's" about their games...

The Eagles, Panthers and Rams...

[Hoov]

what people need to do is send letters expressing their feelings on this or get a petition or something. Its time to raise awareness that this is clearly playing favorites, if a lot of people respond it will be embarassing for the comish, if nothing else.

[dogunwo]

I am still in shock. This is ridiculous. I hope the Pats go like 9-7 now, to show the rest of the league about how much they are cheaters.

[REDVOLUTION]

I think the Cowboys ought to approach the Commish on behalf of Wade Wilson and ask again if its right for him to get a 5 game suspension and Belicheck gets nothing. Also Wilson got a $100,000 fine which is probably close to half his salary while $500,000 probably isn't 1/4 of what he makes.

Never thought this Commish wouldn't at least suspend him for 1 game.

Well at least now we know who owns the NFL. Maybe we should start calling it as it really is - Kraft's Own.

I agree. Jerry Jones has to have called Goodell already.

[CowboysNumeroUno]

so if they do make the playoffs, will there be only 31 picks in the first round of the next draft?

[AdamJT13]

I can not believe there was no suspension and Wade got 5 games. Unbelievable!

Here's what Goodell said about suspending Belichick -- "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension.”

Hey Roger, why not all of the above?

[ddh33]

I would be fine with all of that. I do believe a suspension was warranted. In fact, I think it was demanded by those actions, especially when you consider who has already gotten suspended and for what.

As a basketball fan, I don't want Goodell to become David Stern. Randomly and selectively doling out punishment is not something fans want. This is borderline.

[Big Dakota]

Well he went max on the fine, so that is OK, nothing more he could do there. They will make the PO's, so they get a 1st rounder taken away and that is what my guess was. But the real uproar is the non-suspension. But as another poster said, They already soiled their name.

[sacase]

IF congress wants to investigate something about sports they need to investigate this.

[Nors]

Wonder what NFLPA says about a #1 Pick being obliterated.

[ddh33]

Roger meet David Stern. You guys seem way too similar right now.

[AdamJT13]

Wait a minute! They lose a draft pick only if they make the playoffs?

No, if they don't make the playoffs, they lose their second- and third-round picks.

[Big Dakota]

I am still in shock. This is ridiculous. I hope the Pats go like 9-7 now, to show the rest of the league about how much they are cheaters.


I hope they make the POs, lose the 1st and get beat in round 1.

[31Rwilliams]

This is BS the Pats should have give up both picks and Goodell could of suspended BB atleast 1 game, the new commisioner is a joke.

[ZeroClub]

And you know something, guys?

All of the details aren't going to be public. We aren't ever going to know the extent of the Patriots cheating. The NFL isn't going to let us know what they know.

It's bad PR for the league....

[Big Dakota]

so if they do make the playoffs, will there be only 31 picks in the first round of the next draft?

Yes....

[lspain1]

How much is Belichick being paid?


******Edit - quick internet check came up with $2.6 mil

[Big Dakota]

And you know something, guys?

All of the details aren't going to be public. We aren't ever going to know the extent of the Patriots cheating. The NFL isn't going to let us know what they know.

It's bad PR for the league....

As i've said before, brushing it under the rug.

[FCBarca]

Pretty disappointing but altogether predictable, I suppose...Media darlings don't get raked over the coals.

And what it also says is that players and individuals are more heavily scrutizined whereas franchises are treated with kid gloves...You see the heavy handed way Goodell and the league comes down on players for off the field things but a franchise and their media darling coach are given a slap on the proverbial wrist for corrupt actions on the field of play...Egregious acts of poor sportsmanship that brings the game into disrepute like Bill's and the Pats should never take a back seat to those of players and individuals for off the field acts.

Crazy double standard but, again, it doesn't surprise

[AdamJT13]

Here's what Goodell said about suspending Belichick -- "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."

It seems to me that he could have done all that AND suspended Belichick.

Here's the phone number to call the NFL and complain -- 212-450-2000.

And here's a page with a lot of NFL staff members' e-mail addresses:

http://home.att.net/~wgt11/steelersnfl.html

[silverbear]

Obviously found guilty of cheating...yet noone was suspended.

This looks like a job for The Draconian Vigilante Squad.

We'd get it right.

D*mn straight...

We'd see to it that the Pats' first round pick went to the Cowboys, and that Billy B was castrated, preferably with a dull knife...

Do that just once, and I have a hunch you'd see this video cheating come to a screeching halt...

Draconian is what we do...

[Big Dakota]

Here's what Goodell said about suspending Belichick -- "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."

It seems to me that he could have done all that AND suspended Belichick.

Here's the phone number to call the NFL and complain -- 212-450-2000.

And here's a page with a lot of NFL staff members' e-mail addresses:

http://home.att.net/~wgt11/steelersnfl.html


What about the little dweeb with the camera? No mention of him at all. He should get banned from the games at least.

[HighTechDave]

Here's what Goodell said about suspending Belichick -- "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."

It seems to me that he could have done all that AND suspended Belichick.

Here's the phone number to call the NFL and complain -- 212-450-2000.

And here's a page with a lot of NFL staff members' e-mail addresses:

http://home.att.net/~wgt11/steelersnfl.html


that is a New York area code, and I will not even waste my free minutes of long distance from the Cell, on calling anything that resembles anything New York or the Giants

let them pay with my not spending money for their Product....

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Does anybody think for a minute that this will stop Belicheck? Heck no. There's is nothing more then a wrist slap. Had the Cowboys been found guilty of this there would have been demands for Jerry to give up the Cowboys, etc.

Had he been suspended, he would have used a wireless device to communicate with his team in any event.

[REDVOLUTION]

No suspension.... ah... reminds me of a Celine Dion song.... "... and thats they way it is"

[dargonking999]

Pacman does bad things off the field, 1 year
TAnk has too many guns.. 8 games
Henry drinks too much... 8 games
Harrision takes the wrong drug... 4 games
Wade Wilson takes the wrong drug..... 5 games

Bill captures teams defensive calls and uses it to call plays.... 500K fine

You are a freaking SAINT commish

[REDVOLUTION]

Pacman does bad things off the field, 1 year
TAnk has too many guns.. 8 games
Henry drinks too much... 8 games
Harrision takes the wrong drug... 4 games
Wade Wilson takes the wrong drug..... 5 games

Bill captures teams defensive calls and uses it to call plays.... 500K fine

You are a freaking SAINT commish


Wait until Vicks's lawyers figure a way to use this as leverage in ANYTHING they consider TOO steep for Vick.

This guy just flipped up.

[LandryFan]

Its also a valid point as much as I hate it.

Actually, it's my understanding that the stuff Wilson bought was actually very legal, just not legal for football players because of it's performance enhancing benefits.

[rexrobinson]

So now I hope the Pats make the first round of the playoffs and lose the first game.

Then not only do they lose a first round pick but it would at least be an early 20ish pick and the loss would be even greater.

I wonder if the Commish thinks that taping these defensive signals actually impacted previous games or is he just taking a proactive stance against the advent of cheating via technology.

[FCBarca]

And you know something, guys?

All of the details aren't going to be public. We aren't ever going to know the extent of the Patriots cheating. The NFL isn't going to let us know what they know.

It's bad PR for the league....


And as I mentioned in a different thread, there's still questions about the radio frequency issues at Foxboro that haven't been illuminated to this point...Some issues remain about the extent to which the Pats were trying to sabotage communications of their opponents...That, too, I am sure will be brushed under the rug.


500k sure sounds like a lot of money until you factor in the fact that we're talking about a billion dollar industry and the fact that the coach makes multiple millions a season...Yeah, I'm sure he's really affected by that hit.

The 1st rounder loss...Which would matter more to you, beating opponents in close games with an illegal edge or losing a 1st rounder?...Pretty pathetic really.

Even more than the lame lame lame actions of the NFL on this in terms of punishment, how do they intend to prevent further acts from the Pats or anyone else?

[dargonking999]

The Commish has basically stated that:

"If you make us look bad off the field, you will be heavily punished. BUT if you cheat on the field, and ruin the intergity of the game, you will be fined, and given a stern talking too."



Don't you just love the new commish

[Big Dakota]

Wait until Vicks's lawyers figure a way to use this as leverage in ANYTHING they consider TOO steep for Vick.

This guy just flipped up.


Vick is gonna be chillin for the rest of this year in jail, then the commish will give him 2008 off as well and there isn't anything Vick's lawyers can do about it.

[Big Dakota]

Actually, it's my understanding that the stuff Wilson bought was actually very legal, just not legal for football players because of it's performance enhancing benefits.

It's my understanding, and i could be wrong, it was the nature in which he aquired the drugs. Go to a doctor and it's above board. Go to a dealer and it's not.

[FCBarca]

Actually, it's my understanding that the stuff Wilson bought was actually very legal, just not legal for football players because of it's performance enhancing benefits.


lol, never mind that the's not even a player...That's the part that is ridiculous...He's a coach...He could be doing crack, what would it matter?

But, yeah, I've read speculation that it was related to a medical condition...But, pathetic really

[dogunwo]

Here's what Goodell said about suspending Belichick -- "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."

It seems to me that he could have done all that AND suspended Belichick.

Here's the phone number to call the NFL and complain -- 212-450-2000.

And here's a page with a lot of NFL staff members' e-mail addresses:

http://home.att.net/~wgt11/steelersnfl.html
I dropped too many F-bombs in the message I left. How unclassy of me. F Roger Goodell. A hypocrite is worse than anything Tags did.

[jimmy40]

What a joke. The commish is a joke.The commish knows how many teams were doing it and wants New England to take this punishment, shut up and have it all go away.

[lspain1]

I wonder if the Commish thinks that taping these defensive signals actually impacted previous games or is he just taking a proactive stance against the advent of cheating via technology.

There were a number of stories today speculating on Patriot performance in past games....two of those came from the Steelers and Eagles. I think Mangini turned in the Patriots because the spying added value. If it didn't, he wouldn't have bothered.

[utrunner07]

I am actually kind of glad he did not get suspended, now here in a few weeks when BB is moping aournd in his street clothes in the Dallas game we can have Roy running wildly around on the field, way out of place...even more so then usual...and he will just so happen to find his way to Belichecks spot on the sideline and just so happen to knock him back into the stands...Roy should be able to hit that target...then I will be satisfied.

[03EBZ06]

Not enough of fine. Bellicheat should have gotten at least 4-game suspension.

[AbeBeta]

losing picks really hurts -- and I think the message here is that the organization gets hit hard and that the team is responsible for the coaches' actions

[Hypnotoad]

I think the commissioners respect throughout the league just went down the tubes.

My thought on this is that it is so widespread that they have to keep punishment low or the first round might be finished in 2 hours.

[Big Dakota]

The commish knows how many teams were doing it and wants New England to take this punishment, shut up and have it all go away.


That's what i've been saying.

[bbgun]

They still have the draft pick that counts: Frisco's. They should have been forced to forfeit whichever pick turned out to be lowest.

[utrunner07]

Not enough of fine. Bellicheat should have gotten at least 4-game suspension.
well i think the fine was significant, 1/5th of his salary right? thats pretty steep...

[REDVOLUTION]

Vick is gonna be chillin for the rest of this year in jail, then the commish will give him 2008 off as well and there isn't anything Vick's lawyers can do about it.


You dont know that.

You dont know what lawyers will try.

Lawyers may put pressure on the commissioner to count the year in jail as suspension served.

If the commissioner goes for more than one year.... they will undoubtedly use this in some way. Its what lawyers do.

Where is peplaw?

[Big Dakota]

well i think the fine was significant, 1/5th of his salary right? thats pretty steep...



The commish's hands were tied there anyway it was the max allowed.

[RomoIsBack]

man they must really think that fined will bother them

[Big Dakota]

You dont know that.

You dont know what lawyers will try.

Lawyers may put pressure on the commissioner to count the year in jail as suspension served.

If the commissioner goes for more than one year.... they will undoubtedly use this in some way. Its what lawyers do.

Where is peplaw?



Tell that to Odell Thurman;)

[ZeroClub]

Well, maybe Goodell will come down harder on the Patriots the next time the Patriots are caught.

... because this slap on the wrist isn't going to be enough to touch that arrogant franchise.

[FLcowboy]

500k fine for Bill

250k for Pats

2008 1st rounder IF they make playoffs.

Per ESPN, gamebreak during Terps game.

Pathetic. Fire the commissioner now.


NFL fax number is 212-681-7599.

Send them a fax protesting the slap on the wrist, compared to Wade Wilson's penalty.

[rexrobinson]

There were a number of stories today speculating on Patriot performance in past games....two of those came from the Steelers and Eagles. I think Mangini turned in the Patriots because the spying added value. If it didn't, he wouldn't have bothered.

Well I think that if you know what defense is coming at you its a whole lot easier to make the correct adjustments at the line of scrimmage. The team still has to execute but that was never a problem with the Pats. The problem with me is when all things are even between two teams, something like this could be what turned the tide in a game, its the important games like the AFC championship or the Superbowl where both teams are very good and usually evenly matched. This had to be stopped.

Now my next question is does Tom Brady get a pass here? He was obviuosly involved in this. He is the one who has to make this work otherwise its useless information. Does the player who is knowingly using cheats aquired by his own coaching staff get a pass? I would say no. I understand that very few people would turn their own coach in but the issue still remains. Tom Brady knowingly cheated and he gets off scott free.

[percyhoward]

Assuming this has been going on for years (the Dr. Z story says it dates back to at least 2000): They took 3 rings. All of them in narrow victories.

And all it cost them was $750,000 and a first-rounder.

[AdamJT13]

So the Patriots (probably) lose their own first-round draft pick. Big deal. They still have the 49ers' first-round pick, which (probably) will be much higher. And they can use the cap space saved by not having a first-round pick to sign another free agent.

So Belichick got fined $500,000. Big deal. Want to bet that Belichick gets a contract extension within the next 12 months, with a nice little pay raise attached?

So Robert Kraft got fined $250,000. Big deal. His team is worth $1.199 BILLION. He got fined LESS than the salary of a rookie long-snapper.

That's it -- the entire punishment. Goodell even stated that "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field." In Wade Wilson's case, the NFL found that he DID NOT intentionally violate any rules and DID not gain any sort of advantage, and he (and the Cowboys) STILL got a much worse penalty.

Simply ridiculous.

[dogunwo]

D*mn straight...

We'd see to it that the Pats' first round pick went to the Cowboys, and that Billy B was castrated, preferably with a dull knife...

Do that just once, and I have a hunch you'd see this video cheating come to a screeching halt...

Draconian is what we do...
Thats very, "League of Shadow-esque". Are you tight with Ra's al Guhl?

[Kaika]

What first round pick do they lose??? Theirs or the one they got from the 49's????

[LandryFan]

It's my understanding, and i could be wrong, it was the nature in which he aquired the drugs. Go to a doctor and it's above board. Go to a dealer and it's not.

You are probably correct on that point, Dakota.

[lspain1]

Now my next question is does Tom Brady get a pass here? He was obviuosly involved in this. He is the one who has to make this work otherwise its useless information. Does the player who is knowingly using cheats aquired by his own coaching staff get a pass? I would say no. I understand that very few people would turn their own coach in but the issue still remains. Tom Brady knowingly cheated and he gets off scott free.


I think if you take this to its logical conclusion, all the players were complicit with the use of the information. You can't place it on one player...it goes back to the whole organization....and so you're back to draft picks.

However, I have to believe that this kind of thing came from the top down. The players would not have gone off and done this themselves...so they get a pass from me.

[Oh_Canada]

The commish knows how many teams were doing it and wants New England to take this punishment, shut up and have it all go away.

That's what i've been saying.

Well he also probably knows how many players are taking illegal substances and Wade STILL got five games for a LEGAL drug....this punishment makes no sense to me!!

[Everlastingxxx]

Horrible job by the commissioner. Pathetic. I emailed them.

[billyrags]

I wish the penalty was harsher as well, but if the shoe was on our foot... I would rather have our coach suspended a few games than lose my first round pick.

[REDVOLUTION]

Well he also probably knows how many players are taking illegal substances and Wade STILL got five games for a LEGAL drug....this punishment makes no sense to me!!

Yeah the... eh, hem...."interpretation" of the coaches fine is a little fuzzy to me when concerning Wade

[Big Dakota]

Well he also probably knows how many players are taking illegal substances and Wade STILL got five games for a LEGAL drug....this punishment makes no sense to me!!


They still have to deal with a union and privacy rights. They said today, and i didn't catch if it was the NFL or MLB, but one was considering an HGH test next year but is worried about the implications of players rights. Personally, i think they should test every player in every sport every single month of their season, but it won't happen.

[Kaika]

Don't they have two first round picks next year??????

[percyhoward]

There's an irony in the punishment being forfeiture of draft pcks.

The competitive advantage they've had by cheating all these years is probably one of the main reasons they've been able to trade down and stockpile future picks.

[Chocolate Lab]

They still have the draft pick that counts: Frisco's. They should have been forced to forfeit whichever pick turned out to be lowest.

You mean the lowest numerically, not the latter of the two, right?

Looks like I'll be rooting for the 9ers some this year. Never thought I'd be saying that.

Anyway... Funny, I never expected a suspension. But I was hoping for more draft picks to get yanked. :mad:

[ZeroClub]

This is setting up to be a horrific season.

The Patriots are one of the best teams in the NFL. They'll make the playoffs. They've got an excellent chance of making it to the Super Bowl.

So NFL fans everywhere are going to watch the "cheaters prosper."

What a crappy theme for a season.....

Goodell should have suspended as many of those guilty coaches as possible for at least half a season.

Basically, Goodell should have fixed it so that the Patriots would have a very difficult time making it to the playoffs this year. THAT would have been in the best interest of the game.

The alternative is for the nation to watch these cheaters continue to win games week in and week out.

It is disgusting.

[AdamJT13]

Don't they have two first round picks next year??????

Yes, still have the 49ers' first-round pick, which (probably) will be much higher. And they can use the cap space saved by not having a first-round pick to sign another free agent.

The league should have at least reduced their 2008 cap room by the amount that would have been used on their first-round pick. Otherwise, they're not really being penalized that much.

[juck]

NEW YORK (AP) -- New England coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for spying on an opponent's defensive signals.
Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't.
"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots.
The videotaping came to light after a camera was confiscated from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella while he was on the New York Jets (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nyj/;_ylt=AsbKD0apHqYjS.Rrvx6A1YUdsLYF)' sideline during New England's 38-14 win last Sunday at Giants Stadium. Goodell will not change the outcome of the game.
Goodell said he had considered suspending Belichick but didn't "largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."
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NFL rules state "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game" and that all video or coaching purposes must be shot from locations "enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."
That was re-emphasized in a memo sent Sept. 6 to NFL head coaches and general managers. In it, Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations wrote: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."
The NFL statement said Goodell believed Patriots owner Robert Kraft was unaware of Belichick's actions.
But it said the commissioner believed penalties should be imposed on the club because "Coach Belichick not only serves as the head coach but also has substantial control over all aspects of New England's football operations. His actions and decisions are properly attributed to the club."
NFL coaches long have suspected opponents of spying. In the early 1970s, the late George Allen, coach of the Washington Redskins (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/was/;_ylt=AluPDnyPRAH1JeWgyHgdv00dsLYF), routinely would send a security man into the woods surrounding the team's practice facility because he suspected there were spies from other teams there.
And coaches like Seattle's Mike Holmgren and Philadelphia's Andy Reid, among others, always cover their mouths when calling plays from the sideline because they fear other teams have lip readers trying to determine their calls.
The action against Belichick is the latest in a series of harsh disciplinary actions taken by Goodell, who took office last Sept. 1, succeeding Paul Tagliabue.
The most notable were the indefinite suspension of Atlanta quarterback Michael Vick (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5448/;_ylt=AikPznheGUIbnVOSKWw5hLkdsLYF) after he pleaded guilty to a federal dogfighting conspiracy and the one-year suspension of Tennessee cornerback Adam "Pacman" Jones after numerous run-ins with police.


Need last-minute expert fantasy football advice? Watch Fantasy Football Live (http://fantasysports.yahoo.com/ffl) Sundays at noon ET/9am PT


Updated on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 9:02 pm, EDT

[Beast_from_East]

Assuming this has been going on for years (the Dr. Z story says it dates back to at least 2000): They took 3 rings. All of them in narrow victories.

And all it cost them was $750,000 and a first-rounder.

This is total horse crap:banghead:

They freaking steal everybody's playbook literaly and get a freaking slap on the hand..........

***:bang2:

[Oh_Canada]

Horrible job by the commissioner. Pathetic. I emailed them.
What's his email address?

[The30YardSlant]

Bullcrap

You're telling me that Wade Wilson gets 5 games for taking something that was medically necessary, but Belicheck gets NONE for cheating, however minor it may have been?

I dont think suspending him is the right thing to do, but Goodell has already set a precident, and he must follow through

[rexrobinson]

Yes, still have the 49ers' first-round pick, which (probably) will be much higher. And they can use the cap space saved by not having a first-round pick to sign another free agent.

The league should have at least reduced their 2008 cap room by the amount that would have been used on their first-round pick. Otherwise, they're not really being penalized that much.

ROFL the league may have done them a favor!

Their may be some language in the offical version of the punishment that bars them from any first round pick regardless of if they had one from another team, I doubt it but I wonder if the commish thought, "Hey I will take away their 1st round pick that will probably be high 20ish if not #32 and they still get what will probably be a low pick from the 49'rs anyhow...no harm no foul"

[Kaika]

Yes, still have the 49ers' first-round pick, which (probably) will be much higher. And they can use the cap space saved by not having a first-round pick to sign another free agent.

The league should have at least reduced their 2008 cap room by the amount that would have been used on their first-round pick. Otherwise, they're not really being penalized that much.

My thoughts exactly.:cool:
Makes the penalty that much more BS.:(

They should take both away .

[Oh_Canada]

If all it will cost is a first round pick and 750k...JJ should starting sending out television crews before each and every game.

[StanleySpadowski]

I wonder if the Patriots are going to get "Raidered" from the officials.......


He's at the 30, the 20, the 10 ..Touchdown.....wait there's a flag on the field.

[dallasfan]

Belichick fined $500K

Club fined $250K

Forfeit 2008 1st Round Pick if they make playoffs

Forfeit 2008 2nd and 3rd round if they don't

Holy **** this is harsh

edit: I thought it said 2008 1rst and 2009 2nd and 3rd.

IMO, if Wade Wilson got suspended 5 games and 100K, Belichick should've gotten the same. His cheating actually effects the game.

[Chocolate Lab]

This is setting up to be a horrific season.

The Patriots are one of the best teams in the NFL. They'll make the playoffs. They've got an excellent chance of making it to the Super Bowl.

So NFL fans everywhere are going to watch the "cheaters prosper."

What a crappy theme for a season.....

Goodell should have suspended as many of those guilty coaches as possible for at least half a season.

Basically, Goodell should have fixed it so that the Patriots would have a very difficult time making it to the playoffs this year. THAT would have been in the best interest of the game.

The alternative is for the nation to watch these cheaters continue to win games week in and week out.

It is disgusting.The only good news is, they are now a truly hated team all across the country -- this slap on the wrist will make people even more angry. So at least they'll have to get booed everywhere they go and answer tons of questions all year long. Hopefully being asked about being cheaters a million times will become a big distraction to them.

[dogunwo]

I wonder if the Patriots are going to get "Raidered" from the officials.......


He's at the 30, the 20, the 10 ..Touchdown.....wait there's a flag on the field.
That ruins the integrity of games too. But I wouldnt feel one bit o sorry for the Pats

[Dhragon]

All you guys are overreacting. Do you realize all the talking heads on TV were thinking MUCH, MUCH less would be done here? No one thought a 1st rounder would have to be lost or the max $750,000 in fines would be levied.

Because Wade was suspended only a suspension would be enough for cheater Bill? $500,000 is NOT chump change for Bellicheck. That's about 1/5 of his salary ( for average Joes making around $50,000 a year that would be like losing $10,000 - it would be tough to manage ).

And losing a first rounder is NOT a huge penalty? Give me a break. They are golden. Even if they owned two and are only losing the lower value one they are losing a bunch.

Goodell was very harsh here. A suspension would have been nice considering what happened to Wade but just because he didn't get one doesn't mean the other penalties were not very harsh.

[StanleySpadowski]

This is setting up to be a horrific season.

The Patriots are one of the best teams in the NFL. They'll make the playoffs. They've got an excellent chance of making it to the Super Bowl.

So NFL fans everywhere are going to watch the "cheaters prosper."

What a crappy theme for a season.....

Goodell should have suspended as many of those guilty coaches as possible for at least half a season.

Basically, Goodell should have fixed it so that the Patriots would have a very difficult time making it to the playoffs this year. THAT would have been in the best interest of the game.

The alternative is for the nation to watch these cheaters continue to win games week in and week out.

It is disgusting.


Good post.


You just know the NFL is praying that the Patriots make a deep, deep run into the playoffs though. An 8-8 season basically confirms the suspicion that none of their Lombardi trophies are legitimate and the NFL can't have that.

[Avery]

This has been going on for years too - you have to wonder how many rings this helped them win.

Tuck your bush in, commish.

[big dog cowboy]

I tried to tell everyone this afternoon they would be disappointed with the punishment.

To be honest this punishment is even weaker than I had feared.

[ZeroClub]

Assuming this has been going on for years (the Dr. Z story says it dates back to at least 2000): They took 3 rings. All of them in narrow victories.

And all it cost them was $750,000 and a first-rounder.Yup, and they come out of it in fine shape.

And they've got a great chance of making it back to the Super Bowl this year.

It'll be like watching Barry Bonds get the record all over again.

This crappy controversy is going to overshadow the postseason, if the Patriots win....

[AbeBeta]

This has been going on for years too - you have to wonder how many rings this helped them win.

Tuck your bush in, commish.

I think it is foolish to think that the Pats are the ONLY team doing this.

[numnuts23]

What's his email address?

I think it's www.bbcompletesme.com

[Cochese]

Im fine with the punishment, lets all move on with it and stop talking about these AFC teams.

[theogt]

I think it is foolish to think that the Pats are the ONLY team doing this.Dan Reeves disagrees. He said he's certain they're the only team that's been doing it. Not sure how he'd know, but he was pretty confident that it's only the Pats doing it.

[Dhragon]

Oh, and this is just for a strike one.

If they ever get caught again - and teams will be scrutinizing them at games very very closely from now on, the 2nd strike would undoubtfully be catastrophic to the franchise. It will not be worthwhile for them to cheat again this year. And next year I guarantee the owners will vote for radios in defensive captains helmets next year so this will be a non-issue in future years anyway.


Plus, the asterisk they will now have next to their Superbowl wins in alot of fans eyes is the biggest penalty of all. No way will they be viewed as one of the greatest teams ever with this shadow over them.

[theogt]

Oh, and this is just for a strike one.

If they ever get caught again - and teams will be scrutinizing them at games very very closely from now on, the 2nd strike would undoubtfully be catastrophic to the franchise. It will not be worthwhile for them to cheat again this year. And next year I guarantee the owners will vote for radios in defensive captains helmets next year so this will be a non-issue in future years anyway.


Plus, the asterisk they will now have next to their Superbowl wins in alot of fans eyes is the biggest penalty of all. No way will they be viewed as one of the greatest teams ever with this shadow over them.This is the fourth time they've been caught.

[peplaw06]

Because Wade was suspended only a suspension would be enough for cheater Bill? $500,000 is NOT chump change for Bellicheck. That's about 1/5 of his salary ( for average Joes making around $50,000 a year that would be like losing $10,000 - it would be tough to manage ).Wade was fined a third of his yearly salary and suspended 5 games. Belichick is fined 1/5 of his salary and suspended zero games.

[Oh_Canada]

All you guys are overreacting. Do you realize all the talking heads on TV were thinking MUCH, MUCH less would be done here? No one thought a 1st rounder would have to be lost or the max $750,000 in fines would be levied.

Because Wade was suspended only a suspension would be enough for cheater Bill? $500,000 is NOT chump change for Bellicheck. That's about 1/5 of his salary ( for average Joes making around $50,000 a year that would be like losing $10,000 - it would be tough to manage ).

And losing a first rounder is NOT a huge penalty? Give me a break. They are golden. Even if they owned two and are only losing the lower value one they are losing a bunch.

Goodell was very harsh here. A suspension would have been nice considering what happened to Wade but just because he didn't get one doesn't mean the other penalties were not very harsh.


You're missing a KEY point....Bellichek's actions compromise the integrity of the game...Wade Wilson is a QB coach who was taking a legal substance for his quality of life.
Many have wondered in utter amazement why it seems Bellichek's teams always seem to be "in the huddle" of the opposition, can you imagine if this was the reason?? There are three teams who lost Super Bowls to the Pats who might be thinking the exact same thing, not to mention the countless other teams who have been beaten by the Pats over the years. This kind of behaviour needs to be harsh...harsher than any steriod penalty or off the field incident...it has to be a deterrent to the rest of the NFL and to me this is not going to do it. Belliichek's fine will be paid by the organization I can assure you and a late first round pick for a team with this much talent is a drop in the bucket...it's a joke!!

[Doomsday]

No suspension?

Well I may have been able to live with that if Wilson didnt get hammered with 5 games.

Wilson was also fined 100k I believe, this is a complete joke.

[big dog cowboy]

Wade was fined a third of his yearly salary and suspended 5 games. Belichick is fined 1/5 of his salary and suspended zero games.
:bang2:

[superpunk]

Dan Reeves disagrees. He said he's certain they're the only team that's been doing it. Not sure how he'd know, but he was pretty confident that it's only the Pats doing it.

Jay Novacek mentioned in his article that he had never heard of doing this. Or maybe it was Troy Aikman.

[StanleySpadowski]

All you guys are overreacting. Do you realize all the talking heads on TV were thinking MUCH, MUCH less would be done here? No one thought a 1st rounder would have to be lost or the max $750,000 in fines would be levied.

Because Wade was suspended only a suspension would be enough for cheater Bill? $500,000 is NOT chump change for Bellicheck. That's about 1/5 of his salary ( for average Joes making around $50,000 a year that would be like losing $10,000 - it would be tough to manage ).



I don't think you understand the economics of the wealthy. The higher the annual income becomes, the less a set percentage becomes in terms of lifestyle.



Would a couple of hundred million more or less really matter to Bill Gates?

[Dhragon]

This is the fourth time they've been caught.
First PROVEN time.

[Wood]

500k is about 20% of Bill pay - not chump change. The loss of the 49ers pick is a big loss for NE no matter how you cut it. You cant just discount a 1st round pick with a FA acquistion...because one is a value signing (rookie pick) and one is usually an over-priced acquisition (FA pickup). I am willing to bet that NE would take the 1st round pick over a FA pickup 10 out of 10 times. Now if they drafted like Arizona it would be a different story.

[ThreeSportStar80]

They should have been forced to foreit the game!

[Dhragon]

Wade was fined a third of his yearly salary and suspended 5 games. Belichick is fined 1/5 of his salary and suspended zero games.

AND a first round pick AND costing his team an additional $250,000 AND losing his whole reputation. Sounds like alot to me.

[Avery]

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/060809/s_nfl_goodell_060809.300w.jpg

"I swear, you guys cheat 13 or 14 more times and I'm going to be really ticked off."

[Avery]

AND a first round pick AND costing his team an additional $250,000 AND losing his whole reputation. Sounds like alot to me.

Do you think this will keep him out of the Hall of Fame?

[theogt]

First PROVEN time.It was the first time they've done it this season. The commish warned the league during the off-season because the Patriots had been caught in the past.

[playmakers]

What benfit would it have to just suspend Belicheck. The team would survive for the time he is gone. To nip this in the foot you must hurt all 53 players and not just one. Next time, someone could say that there take the fall for the team and take there chances of getting caught. If Joe Smo gets caught what would it matter. The team is bigger than one person.

[Da Hammer]

this is beyond freakin BS! Roger "Double standard" Goodell is nothing but a joke!!! seriously why not just say in a PC that this nothing but a slap on the wrist... unbelievable but no surprising...

[peplaw06]

AND a first round pick AND costing his team an additional $250,000 AND losing his whole reputation. Sounds like alot to me.Even if you add the extra $250k to HIS salary, he was still only fined just over 1/4 of his yearly salary.

And that draft pick is going to be somewhere near 30, they still have a first. Doesn't make up for the difference in the 5 games Wilson was suspended.

And wrap your head around this one. What if Belichick resigns, retires, or is fired? He doesn't get punished by the docking of a draft pick at all. Probably not likely that he's fired, but he could easily resign.

You think Goodell intended that draft pick as a punishment for Belichick or for the team? At least with a suspension you could KNOW that you're punishing both.

[Dhragon]

You're missing a KEY point....Bellichek's actions compromise the integrity of the game...Wade Wilson is a QB coach who was taking a legal substance for his quality of life.
Many have wondered in utter amazement why it seems Bellichek's teams always seem to be "in the huddle" of the opposition, can you imagine if this was the reason?? There are three teams who lost Super Bowls to the Pats who might be thinking the exact same thing, not to mention the countless other teams who have been beaten by the Pats over the years. This kind of behaviour needs to be harsh...harsher than any steriod penalty or off the field incident...it has to be a deterrent to the rest of the NFL and to me this is not going to do it. Belliichek's fine will be paid by the organization I can assure you and a late first round pick for a team with this much talent is a drop in the bucket...it's a joke!!

Losing a first rounder I believe is an UNPRECEDENTED penalty. Not a slap on the wrist or a joke. This whole thing will no longer be a problem next year. You want them to take away their 3 Superbowls so we Cowboys will be the only ones to win 3 in 4 yrs?

Like roids, stealing signals is most likely very commonplace in the league. The Pats just got caught and will pay for it.

[Big Dakota]

Jay Novacek mentioned in his article that he had never heard of doing this. Or maybe it was Troy Aikman.


Ya, it was Jay.

[Dhragon]

They should have been forced to foreit the game!

Now this was what I was really hoping for myself.

[sacase]

What's his email address?

Try Goodellr@nfl.com I sent one there and did not get kick back on that. It appears that their naming convention is last name and first letter.

[ZeroClub]

The only good news is, they are now a truly hated team all across the country -- this slap on the wrist will make people even more angry. So at least they'll have to get booed everywhere they go and answer tons of questions all year long. Hopefully being asked about being cheaters a million times will become a big distraction to them.

Yeah, it is good that they'll have to pay a public price. I do believe that's true.

It was also good that Barry Bonds had to pay a public price as he approached and then surpassed the home run record. There was justice to the price he paid.

But it just isn't much fun to watch. In fact, I resent that there is now a layer of slime covering this NFL season.

Goodell should have been more thoughtful and proactive, but apparently the problem is that he isn't a particularly thoughtful guy.

[peplaw06]

Funny how NOW everyone thinks Goodell is a *******bag

[Vertigo_17]

I sent an email, not that it will matter...



Dear Sir,

I wanted to send an email to voice my concern as a fan of the National Footall League regarding the punishment for the Patriots organization that was handed down by the commissioner. In my opinion, the integrety of the game was compromised and as a fan I wonder what effect this has had over past seasons and superbowls. It's straightforward enough to understand what effect potentially knowing the defensive call would have on the game. It is also rumored, yet documented by the media, that this type of behavior from the Patriots has occurred in the past and this is the first time that in which someone was caught red handed, in public, so to speak. I was strongly hoping the commissioner would send the same kind of stern message to the Patriots that has been expressed to other players and organizations since taking office. In general, I have applauded the effort to set a tone within the NFL that rules will be enforced and everyone will be held responsible for thier actions.

That being said, I am thoroughly dumbfounded by the lack of discipline enforced on the Patriots organization and head coach. The commissioner recently suspended an assistant coach for 5 games and 1/3 of his salary for using a banned substance for personal, off-label use regarding a health issue. This was because coaches are held to a higher standard, yet casting shadow on the basic integrity of the game does on recieve a suspension for a single game? I am thoroughly appalled and now question the overall oversight and fundamental objective of the league office. It honestly appears that the possible objective is to sweep this under the rug before more information becomes available to the general public.

From a fans perspective, the NFL completely missed the mark on this one.

Regards

[Cochese]

Funny how NOW everyone thinks Goodell is a *******bag


I was just thinking the exact same thing.

[Big Dakota]

Even if you add the extra $250k to HIS salary, he was still only fined just over 1/4 of his yearly salary.

And that draft pick is going to be somewhere near 30, they still have a first. Doesn't make up for the difference in the 5 games Wilson was suspended.

And wrap your head around this one. What if Belichick resigns, retires, or is fired? He doesn't get punished by the docking of a draft pick at all. Probably not likely that he's fired, but he could easily resign.

You think Goodell intended that draft pick as a punishment for Belichick or for the team? At least with a suspension you could KNOW that you're punishing both.


Belichick isn't going anywhere this year and they will make the POs and they will lose a #1. As a great, err near great man once said, MARK IT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Dhragon]

Even if you add the extra $250k to HIS salary, he was still only fined just over 1/4 of his yearly salary.

And that draft pick is going to be somewhere near 30, they still have a first. Doesn't make up for the difference in the 5 games Wilson was suspended.

And wrap your head around this one. What if Belichick resigns, retires, or is fired? He doesn't get punished by the docking of a draft pick at all. Probably not likely that he's fired, but he could easily resign.

You think Goodell intended that draft pick as a punishment for Belichick or for the team? At least with a suspension you could KNOW that you're punishing both.

You all act likw Wade Wilson's suspension will keep us from going to the Superbowl or something. I don't think his suspension will hurt the Boys hardly any if at all. Garrett will probably do a better job anyway with Romo.

So his suspension costs us little. The Pats penalty cost them alot - 1st rounder.

[Bob Sacamano]

500k fine for Bill

250k for Pats

2008 1st rounder IF they make playoffs.

Per ESPN, gamebreak during Terps game.

Pathetic. Fire the commissioner now.

What a joke. The commish is a joke.

I'm suprised you 2 feel this way

[ThreeSportStar80]

Now this was what I was really hoping for myself.

Yeah that hurts more than anything!

[superpunk]

Funny how NOW everyone thinks Goodell is a *******bag

quoted for mother ...................................ing truth.

[cleverusername]

I dropped too many F-bombs in the message I left. How unclassy of me. F Roger Goodell. A hypocrite is worse than anything Tags did.

Those are stong words, but I agree with them!

:hammer:

[Cochese]

You all act likw Wade Wilson's suspension will keep us from going to the Superbowl or something. I don't think his suspension will hurt the Boys hardly any if at all. Garrett will probably do a better job anyway with Romo.

So his suspension costs us little. The Pats penalty cost them alot - 1st rounder.

Exactly, if anything the NFL did us a favor shipping the guy who 'developed' Rex Grossman on an extended vacation.

[peplaw06]

You all act likw Wade Wilson's suspension will keep us from going to the Superbowl or something. I don't think his suspension will hurt the Boys hardly any if at all. Garrett will probably do a better job anyway with Romo.

So his suspension costs us little. The Pats penalty cost them alot - 1st rounder.Is it going to keep them from going to the Super Bowl?

[Big Dakota]

I'm suprised you 2 feel this way


And Vick is gona use this and will be playing by next week:laugh2:

His lawyers will see to that.

[peplaw06]

And Vick is gona use this and will be playing by next week:laugh2:

His lawyers will see to that.:huh:

[cleverusername]

I agree that its not the same but thats where my agreement ends.

The integrity of the game... the unfair competitive advantage, cheating. This is of Pete Rose proportions. I am not comparing the events... I am merely pointing out there severity to the game.

Bottom line: Games were won via cheating. This cannot be denied.

All the SB losers vs. the Pats have legitimate "hmmm's" about their games...

The Eagles, Panthers and Rams...

I would like to see the kind of stuff thrown at the guy the next time he shows his face at on of these places. Heck, I would love to be there, batteries in hand.

[Big Dakota]

:huh:


Read the thread then your head won't itch.

[Bob Sacamano]

btw, what happens to the 1st round pick? do they just skip the selection, or give it back to the original team?

[Da Hammer]

Funny how NOW everyone thinks Goodell is a *******bag
ive thought he was a *******bad for a long while now...

[peplaw06]

Good post.


You just know the NFL is praying that the Patriots make a deep, deep run into the playoffs though. An 8-8 season basically confirms the suspicion that none of their Lombardi trophies are legitimate and the NFL can't have that.True, but it has to be a bit of a Catch 22. The fact that a team gets caught cheating in the regular season, and in the same season, after being "punished," STILL makes it to the SB? Yeah, that punishment sounds really stiff, don't ya think?

It'd be like Pete Rose still managing, or Tim Donaghy still reffing.

[Bob Sacamano]

And Vick is gona use this and will be playing by next week:laugh2:

His lawyers will see to that.

I've seen that the line's been drawn, Goodell pops up and the three-headed monster of superpunk, theo and peplaw come down w/ the hammer

[ZeroClub]

You all act likw Wade Wilson's suspension will keep us from going to the Superbowl or something. I don't think his suspension will hurt the Boys hardly any if at all. Garrett will probably do a better job anyway with Romo.

So his suspension costs us little. The Pats penalty cost them alot - 1st rounder.
In return for Jon Gruden, the Raiders got Tampa Bay's first and second round picks in 2002, their first round pick in 2003, and their second round selection in 2004, along with $8 million in cash.

One 1st round pick for three championships? That's a steal.

[Big Dakota]

Even if you add the extra $250k to HIS salary, he was still only fined just over 1/4 of his yearly salary.

And that draft pick is going to be somewhere near 30, they still have a first. Doesn't make up for the difference in the 5 games Wilson was suspended.

And wrap your head around this one. What if Belichick resigns, retires, or is fired? He doesn't get punished by the docking of a draft pick at all. Probably not likely that he's fired, but he could easily resign.

You think Goodell intended that draft pick as a punishment for Belichick or for the team? At least with a suspension you could KNOW that you're punishing both.



OBTW, i didn't hear anything about the Pats not having to give a draft pick if Belichick isn't around. Plase provide a link.

[StanleySpadowski]

I've never seen NFL fans this united. Almost every board I've seen has a thread wishing well for Everett and a thread condemning this punishment as a slap on the wrist.


The Chargers will be the most popular team on the planet come Sunday.

[peplaw06]

I've seen that the line's been drawn, Goodell pops up and the three-headed monster of superpunk, theo and peplaw come down w/ the hammerAnd at the same time, Goodell shill Summer throws his hat into the ring.

[Big Dakota]

btw, what happens to the 1st round pick? do they just skip the selection, or give it back to the original team?


They skip it. Didn't Denver lose a pick in 05? I know someone did in the last 3 years.

[peplaw06]

OBTW, i didn't hear anything about the Pats not having to give a draft pick if Belichick isn't around. Plase provide a link.That's not what I said. If he leaves, it's not a punishment for HIM. read it again.

[cleverusername]

I just had a great Idea for a shirt .


Guck Foodell w/a NFL logo in the background.

[Bob Sacamano]

And at the same time, Goodell shill Summer throws his hat into the ring.

stealing bbgun's material? c'mon, you're better than that, but then again...

and notice I have yet to say one thing either way? I'm just observing here

[Big Dakota]

That's not what I said. If he leaves, it's not a punishment for HIM. read it again.


I'm not concerned as long as it hurts the Pats.

[dr_hefley]

Love the fine, love the loss of the draft pick.............BUT NO SUSPENSION for Belicheck???? GETTHEHELLOUTTAHERE

Wade Wilson gets 4 games for trying to get a woodie, and belicheck flat out CHEATS???? And no suspension????? Bush League.

Exactly as I suspected. Goodell has no stones, can't do the right thing in the presence of "the genius".

Can't say I'm surprised at all.

[StanleySpadowski]

True, but it has to be a bit of a Catch 22. The fact that a team gets caught cheating in the regular season, and in the same season, after being "punished," STILL makes it to the SB? Yeah, that punishment sounds really stiff, don't ya think?

It'd be like Pete Rose still managing, or Tim Donaghy still reffing.

Or Belichick still coaching........

[peplaw06]

Read the thread then your head won't itch.I would rather not sidetrack this thread, but what do you think was a bigger black eye ON THE LEAGUE...? Vick dogfighting or Belichick cheating?

stealing bbgun's material? c'mon, you're better than that, but then again...I wasn't aware that use of one word = stealing material.... Does he have the word "shill" copyrighted?

and notice I have yet to say one thing either way? I'm just observing hereof course not... I know you WANT to defend your hero, but it's not easy to do.

[LeonDixson]

My email was strikingly similar to yours:

Mr. Goodell,

I have supported your crackdown on league infractions up to this point. You have now sent the message that cheating on the field in ways that can alter the outcome of games is a lesser infraction than off-field issues.

You fined Wade Wilson $100K (roughly a third of his salary) AND suspended him for 5 games because coaches must be held to a higher standard. Don't forget that Wilson's infraction had absolutely no impact on the game or what was happening on the field. Apparently, you feel that head coaches should not be held to as high a standard as QB coaches though.

How can Bill BelliCheat not be suspended??? He's a coach; a HEAD coach at that, and all he gets is a fine??? That fine doesn't approach 1/3 of his salary either.

I consider losing draft picks part of the punishment of the organization, not of Bellicheat personally.

You have held the Cowboys QB coach to a higher standard than the Head Coach of the Cheatriots. Especially in light of the rumors that concerns of their cheating was previously communicated to your office, including turning off their radio communications at critical times during the game. You have let this blow to the integrity of the game to go by with a slap on the wrist.

Suspend Bellicheat for more than the 5 games you suspended Wade Wilson. Your double standard in favor of the Patriots organization is astounding!

Sincerely,

Leon Dixson,
Papaikou, Hawaii

[peplaw06]

I'm not concerned as long as it hurts the Pats.Well that response was directly attributable to an argument over which coach got the worse punishment, Wilson or Belichick. Loss of a future draft pick isn't guaranteed to be a punishment on any coach.

[Big Dakota]

I've seen that the line's been drawn, Goodell pops up and the three-headed monster of superpunk, theo and peplaw come down w/ the hammer


Quite the triumvirate
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/images/thumb/1/12/Fluffy.jpg/250px-Fluffy.jpg (http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Fluffy.jpg) http://images.wikia.com/common/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Fluffy.jpg)

[Hypnotoad]

Whats to stop mediocre-good teams from cheating? If a draft pick late in the first round is similar to early second round talent. Whats to stop a team which is mediocre (15-28th pick) from sacrificing their draft picks next year to get a competitive advantage. So what? There is not enough risk to getting this potential benefit.

[numnuts23]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/weblogs/entry/10335219

Prisco's thoughts on the fine

You call that a punishment? It's a love tap for Belichick, Pats
NFL commissioner Roger Goodell fined Patriots coach Bill Belichick $500,000, the maximum fine possible by league rules, for violating league policy last Sunday on the use of equipment to videotape an opposing team's offensive or defensive signals.

Big deal. Belichick reportedly spent more than that on a condo for a New York woman who's involved in a divorce in which Belichick was named as the other man.

Belichick should have been suspended.

In addition to his fine, the team was fined $250,000 and will lose a first-round pick next spring if they make the playoffs. If they don't, they will lose second- and third-round picks.

That will sting, but the disappointment with the ruling is that Belichick isn't facing a four-game suspension.

This is the integrity of the game we're talking about. Goodell should have come down harder on the coach.

Maybe his relationship with Patriots owner Bob Kraft impacted the decision since Kraft is in the group of owners who pushed for Goodell as commissioner. Kraft is tight with the commissioner and suspending New England's coach certainly can't be what the owner wants.

Goodell has done a lot of good things so far in his tenure, but this warranted a suspension of Belichick, not just a fine -- even a hefty one.

[dallasfan]

So if everyone decides to cheat and then lose a first round pick, then technically no one gets punished? Right?

[Bob Sacamano]

I would rather not sidetrack this thread, but what do you think was a bigger black eye ON THE LEAGUE...? Vick dogfighting or Belichick cheating?

both are pretty major, but from what we know, Belichick is an isolated incident, while players getting into trouble off the field is staggeringly common, I'd say the magnitude of each are equally damning

illegal gambling and cheating

I wasn't aware that use of one word = stealing material.... Does he have the word "shill" copyrighted?

the problem isn't that you used a word that bbgun uses regularly, AFTER he used it, just it's lame, but so are you and bbgun

of course not... I know you WANT to defend your hero, but it's not easy to do.

I don't have to do anything, Goodell made his ruling and all the whining in the world and the agenda pushing off your soapbox isn't going to change a thing

although I will say Belichick should have gotten 5 games just like Wade

[LeonDixson]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/weblogs/entry/10335219

Prisco's thoughts on the fine

Good for Prisco!

[cleverusername]

So if everyone decides to cheat and then lose a first round pick, then technically no one gets punished? Right?

No, I'm sure the next team to get caught gets the real Punishment, especially if their owner is not a Kraft.:bang2:

I will never eact Macaroni and cheese again!!!!!:D

[StanleySpadowski]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is NFL security searching the Patriots' team offices and confiscating anything that may have be the fruits of this illegal activity.

Belicheat reportedly has detailed reports on every team/coach he's ever faced as the HC of the Patriots. How many of these contain information that were obtained illegally? Shouldn't they all be forfeited?

[Biggems]

i stick by my penalties....

250 kraft
100 bb
50 oc
50 dc

4 game suspension for bb, oc, dc (without pay)

forfeit entire 2008 draft



i think this would have been a steep penalty....and would have caused others to avoid cheating in the future.

[cleverusername]

both are pretty major, but from what we know, Belicheat is an isolated incident, while players getting into trouble off the field is staggeringly common, I'd say the magnitude of each are equally damning

illegal gambling and cheating



the problem isn't that you used a word that bbgun uses regularly, just it's lame, but so are you and bbgun



I don't have to do anything,


Alot of people think otherwise, the Dr. Z article is one and I'm sure their will be others.


And ....nothing on this forum has or will ever make a diference in the NFL-- no matter what anyone post even you ,my friend, even you.

[Bob Sacamano]

Alot of people think otherwise, the Dr. Z article is one and I'm sure their will be others.

I'm talking about league-wide

And ....nothing on this forum has or will ever make a diference in the NFL-- no matter what anyone post even you ,my friend, even you.

just explaining why I'm not giving an opinion about Goodell either way

btw, I've been in plenty of debates about Goodell, too many in fact, and I'm simply choosing not to get into them again, they just get rehashed

[bbgun]

the problem isn't that you used a word that bbgun uses regularly, AFTER he used it, just it's lame, but so are you and bbgun

The waiter's obsession with me continues. Didja have a bad shift at IHOP? Get stiffed on a tip? Try not taking it out on your betters, such as me and Pep. Sweet dreams, sheep boy.

[CowboyMike]

So Wade Wilson is suspended for 5 games and gets fined half his paycheck, and all Belicheck has to do is fess up $500,000?

B.S.

[Bob Sacamano]

The waiter's obsession with me continues. Didja have a bad shift at IHOP? Get stiffed on a tip? Try not taking it out on your betters, such as me and Pep. Sweet dreams, sheep boy.

here comes the masochists/martyr

ready for another beatdown? you're a punchline, Art

[SultanOfSix]

I thought the commissioner works for the league and for all 32 owners, not just one of them.

It looks like Goodell should remove the Good from his name and replace it with "Dumb" because what he did was totally inconsistent and unjustified.

He should be fired immediately.

[peplaw06]

both are pretty major, but from what we know, Belichick is an isolated incident, while players getting into trouble off the field is staggeringly common, I'd say the magnitude of each are equally damning

illegal gambling and cheatingWell if you want to believe that Belichick's was a first time violation, then go ahead. But this is Vick's first off the field conviction. And he wasn't illegally gambling on NFL games.

Vick's actions were damning on himself, but on the league? Do you really think that fans are suspicious that all other NFL players are involved in dogfighting? Can you say the same thing about other NFL teams and suspicions of cheating?



the problem isn't that you used a word that bbgun uses regularly, AFTER he used it, just it's lame, but so are you and bbgunthat word is actually in the dictionary. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. Whoops I said "dictionary." I'm probably stealing that word from someone else.



I don't have to do anything, Goodell made his ruling and all the whining in the world and the agenda pushing off your soapbox isn't going to change a thingGreat argument... We all know people only post ideas on message boards if they feel it can change the way things are done.

although I will say Belichick should have gotten 5 games just like Wade So what do you think about your boy?

[Big Dakota]

I would rather not sidetrack this thread, but what do you think was a bigger black eye ON THE LEAGUE...? Vick dogfighting or Belichick cheating?

I wasn't aware that use of one word = stealing material.... Does he have the word "shill" copyrighted?

of course not... I know you WANT to defend your hero, but it's not easy to do.




What Belichick did was a black eye for the league and ethically wrong.

What Vick did was morally reprehensible, a black eye for the NFL and the human race.

I don't live in a world where wrongs in the NFL are more important than wrongs in society. Then again i come from a culture that killed animals for sustenance for thousands of years yet we revere those animals. Many of our ceremonies revolve around giving thanks to those animals for giving their lives so we may live. I respect all animal life a lot more than some stolen signals, but that's me.

[cleverusername]

I'm talking about league-wide



just explaining why I'm not giving an opinion about Goodell either way

btw, I've been in plenty of debates about Goodell, too many in fact, and I'm simply choosing not to get into them again, they just get rehashed


oh, ... well nevermind then.:D

[ZeroClub]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is NFL security searching the Patriots' team offices and confiscating anything that may have be the fruits of this illegal activity.

Belicheat reportedly has detailed reports on every team/coach he's ever faced as the HC of the Patriots. How many of these contain information that were obtained illegally? Shouldn't they all be forfeited?

This is stuff that should be considered, of course. But the NFL isn't likely to let us know any of this.

Or anything about those extra radio frequencies that were reported earlier (if there is anything to it). Or anything about microphones under shoulder pads (if there is anything to it).

There is a great chance that the ugly naked truth is judged too ugly for public consumption.

[Chocolate Lab]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is NFL security searching the Patriots' team offices and confiscating anything that may have be the fruits of this illegal activity.

Belicheat reportedly has detailed reports on every team/coach he's ever faced as the HC of the Patriots. How many of these contain information that were obtained illegally? Shouldn't they all be forfeited?

Exactly. They need to raid that place and make sure they give up whatever they have.

At least we can be sure now that EVERY team who plays them will change up their signals the week before. Sure will be interesting if they start losing some games...

[Bob Sacamano]

Well if you want to believe that Belichick's was a first time violation, then go ahead. But this is Vick's first off the field conviction. And he wasn't illegally gambling on NFL games.

consorting w/ gamblers is enough to violate the player conduct policy

as well as breaking the law

Vick's actions were damning on himself, but on the league? Do you really think that fans are suspicious that all other NFL players are involved in dogfighting? Can you say the same thing about other NFL teams and suspicions of cheating?

I didn't say dog-fighting, I said players getting into trouble off the field, there have been more examples of that than coaches cheating

you don't comprehend very well, do you?

that word is actually in the dictionary. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. Whoops I said "dictionary." I'm probably stealing that word from someone else.

LOL, bbgun introduced shill to the board, and you ran w/ it

you're ripping from the resident punch-line, how do you feel?


Great argument... We all know people only post ideas on message boards if they feel it can change the way things are done.

So what do you think about your boy?

just explaining why I'm not throwing my hat into the ring, nothing I can do about it

again, Goodell should have suspended Belichick 5 games, but he's getting fined and the Pats lose a 1st round pick

[peplaw06]

What Belichick did was a black eye for the league and ethically wrong.

What Vick did was morally reprehensible, a black eye for the NFL and the human race.

I don't live in a world where wrongs in the NFL are more important than wrongs in society.Oh so the argument that "It's the NFL and they are sovereign," works for you when you choose for it to?

If Belichick cheats in the NFL, well wrongs in the NFL are not more important than the wrongs in society. Yet when Vick does something completely outside of the NFL, and gets punishment handed down from the NFL, the NFL can do what they want because they are not subject to the rules of our society. Brilliant!!
Then again i come from a culture that killed animals for sustenance for thousands of years yet we revere those animals. Many of our ceremonies revolve around giving thanks to those animals for giving their lives so we may live. I respect all animal life a lot more than some stolen signals, but that's me. We're NOT talking about criminal punishment here. We're talking about punishment for "conduct detrimental to the league" (whatever that means). You do agree that both were punished for conduct detrimental to the league? Which was MORE detrimental to the league?

[Dallas]

I don't care what anybody says. I am GLAD the commish did this. He could have been more strict but what came down is about what I thought would happen.


Think on this.

The Pats are now on record as being cheaters. The head coach who helped guide them through those SB's is now on record as being a cheater.

That is HUGE.

Public opinion is HORRIBLE for this team now. Just watch ove the next few weeks how the Patriot PR machine will handle this.


The shining Patriot organization has *** by those SB's now. Everyone will think of them as the cheating SB winners.


Everytime a Patriot fan says we won all those SB's the Jets fan will be saying "Yah...but you all cheated to get there".

How would you answer if you were the Pats fan? You can't say no. The NFL just popped the main coach and the entire organization for cheating.

WoW....

[bbgun]

that word is actually in the dictionary. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true. Whoops I said "dictionary." I'm probably stealing that word from someone else.

The waiter thinks you owe me royalties or something. Pay up.

[burmafrd]

where is Pats Fan? He was here yesterday whining and claiming it was all being exagerated and so on.

[superpunk]

The earliest example of the word "shill" being used on the forum (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9895&postcount=23).

I know. I was shocked to find out that bbgun didn't invent the word, too. Summer is usually so reliable on these things.

[Bob Sacamano]

The earliest example of the word "shill" being used on the forum (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9895&postcount=23).

I know. I was shocked to find out that bbgun didn't invent the word, too. Summer is usually so reliable on these things.

I must have missed that thread

my apologies pep, referencing you to bubblegum was going too far

and speaking of reliable, where's our .gif punk?

[bbgun]

The earliest example of the word "shill" being used on the forum (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9895&postcount=23).

I know. I was shocked to find out that bbgun didn't invent the word, too. Summer is usually so reliable on these things.

When it comes to Spags, I prefer "company man."

[Hypnotoad]

If Kraft wants to salvage whatever honor and dignity left in peoples minds about the patriots he should take the initiative and suspend Belichick for a few games. Clearly this isn't enough punishment and any media source (not a puppet of the league) would probably point out the inconsistencies in Goodell's suspensions/punishments. I highly doubt this will happen though.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/index
SportsNation Poll just opened and it looked like initial feelings about this is it wasn't harsh enough.

[Dallas]

Can we please stay on the thread topic?

Can you girls take the sip to PM's?


K-thanks-bye

[AbeBeta]

If Kraft wants to salvage whatever honor and dignity left in peoples minds about the patriots he should take the initiative and suspend Belichick for a few games. Clearly this isn't enough punishment and any media source (not a puppet of the league) would probably point out the inconsistencies in Goodell's suspensions/punishments.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/index
SportsNation Poll just opened and it looked like initial feelings about this is it wasn't harsh enough.

How exactly can you establish "consistency" when you address acts that NEVER been punished or caught before?

[superpunk]

Can we please stay on the thread topic?

Can you girls take the sip to PM's?


K-thanks-bye
You're probably perfectly capable of carrying on whatever conversation you personally desire. If you need everyone else to hold your hand, just say so, I guess.

[REDVOLUTION]

Well... one thing is for sure... they will never have to investigate Joe Gibbs and the Redskins for cheating... LOL

[peplaw06]

consorting w/ gamblers is enough to violate the player conduct policy

as well as breaking the law OK. What is more detrimental to the league.



I didn't say dog-fighting, I said players getting into trouble off the field, there have been more examples of that than coaches cheating

you don't comprehend very well, do you? You really need to slow down when you're reading and think about your responses. I am comparing the conduct of VICK to BELICHICK. I'm not talking about Pacman or Henry or Tank, etc.

Which person's actions were more of a black eye on the league? Do you think more fans of the NFL are suspicious of other players dogfighting or more suspicious of other teams cheating.

Oh and speaking of lame... how many times are you going to use the comprehension remark? You've had enough time to come up with something new. *Yawn*



LOL, bbgun introduced shill to the board, and you ran w/ it

you're ripping from the resident punch-line, how do you feel?bbgun "introduced shill??" Wow. priceless. I can't believe you're still on this one. Do you attribute every word to one specific poster? Who owns, "comprehension?" I bet it's you.




just explaining why I'm not throwing my hat into the ring, nothing I can do about ityeah me neither. Good call.

:eek: Did you just steal the "throwing your hat into the ring" line from me. How lame...:rolleyes:

[Bob Sacamano]

Well... one thing is for sure... they will never have to investigate Joe Gibbs and the Redskins for cheating... LOL

I don't trust the prune

maybe we should get pep on it

[AbeBeta]

Dan Reeves disagrees. He said he's certain they're the only team that's been doing it. Not sure how he'd know, but he was pretty confident that it's only the Pats doing it.

From Brian Dawkins

"I would like to think it's just one team doing it, but it doesn't shock me that it happened," Dawkins said.

[REDVOLUTION]

I don't trust the prune

maybe we should get pep on it


Yeah... but dont you have to win something during a non-strike season to be considered a "person of interest"... er... I mean "team of interest" :lmao2:

[Dallas]

You're probably perfectly capable of carrying on whatever conversation you personally desire. If you need everyone else to hold your hand, just say so, I guess.


SP this sucks man. Most of us want to discuss this threads topic but we have to freakin sift through all of the rediculous "OMG thats my word" BS.

Seriously - if you folks enjoy talking to much blitherblather - take it to PM's or start some other thread about the blitherblather.

Save us just a wee bit of the garbage?


It's a simple request.

[thescarface1989]

Did anyone just see Chris Mort on Sportscenter? He just said the that Some people still don't think the punishment is enough because of Wade Wilson being suspended for 4 games performance enhancing drug use. Where does he get his news from? .........CowboysZone maybe:cool:

[REDVOLUTION]

...

Do you think that Vick and his lawyers are all over this leniency in regards to no suspension when it comes to Vick and his attempt at getting back into league?

Will they try and say that his time in jail was time served for suspension. Will they try to get only a year total suspension?

[SultanOfSix]

From Brian Dawkins

"I would like to think it's just one team doing it, but it doesn't shock me that it happened," Dawkins said.

What does this statement mean?

The 2nd phrase doesn't even follow from the first.

"I would like to think it's just one team doing it, but it wouldn't surprise me that there are more teams doing it" would actually make sense.

Dawkins statement shows nothing.

[Dallas]

Did anyone just see Chris Mort on Sportscenter? He just said the that Some people still don't think the punishment is enough because of Wade Wilson being suspended for 4 games performance enhancing drug use. Where does he get his news from? .........CowboysZone maybe:cool:

I have to say this board is about the brightest NFL fan site around.

It would not surprise me at all if many/many/many talking heads come here for some research.

[Bob Sacamano]

OK. What is more detrimental to the league.

I would think whatever is felt more reprehensible to people

and I would say dog-fighting, carrying around unregistered guns, drinking and driving, punching strippers, is more reprehensible to people than stealing signals

You really need to slow down when you're reading and think about your responses. I am comparing the conduct of VICK to BELICHICK. I'm not talking about Pacman or Henry or Tank, etc.

Which person's actions were more of a black eye on the league? Do you think more fans of the NFL are suspicious of other players dogfighting or more suspicious of other teams cheating.

more fans are suspicious of NFL player's conduct than teams cheating, because there have been far more examples of players getting into trouble

why I'm not limiting the argument to just VIck and dog-fighting is because he's part of a huge black eye, player's off the field conduct, until more cases of coaches cheating is presented, I'm going to have to say that player's screwing up the NFL players reputation is more of a black eye


Oh and speaking of lame... how many times are you going to use the comprehension remark? You've had enough time to come up with something new. *Yawn*

I only pull it every now and then

bbgun "introduced shill??" Wow. priceless. I can't believe you're still on this one. Do you attribute every word to one specific poster? Who owns, "comprehension?" I bet it's you.

I was corrected, LTN was the 1st person to use shill

yeah me neither. Good call.

:eek: Did you just steal the "throwing your hat into the ring" line from me. How lame...:rolleyes:

it is what it is :eek:

[AbeBeta]

What does this statement mean?

The 2nd phrase doesn't even follow from the first.

"I would like to think it's just one team doing it, but it wouldn't surprise me that there are more teams doing it" would actually make sense.

Dawkins statement shows nothing.

I think it means that there are likely many teams cheating.

This is a copy cat league, you know.

[REDVOLUTION]

From Brian Dawkins
"I would like to think it's just one team doing it, but it doesn't shock me that it happened," Dawkins said.

What does this statement mean?
The 2nd phrase doesn't even follow from the first.
"I would like to think it's just one team doing it, but it wouldn't surprise me that there are more teams doing it" would actually make sense.

Dawkins statement shows nothing.



It seems to work.
1st part = He would like to think its only the Pats
2nd part = He is not suprised that the Pats did it. :D

[Bob Sacamano]

I think it means that there are likely many teams cheating.

This is a copy cat league, you know.

there were probably many witches in Salem too

[Big Dakota]

Oh so the argument that "It's the NFL and they are sovereign," works for you when you choose for it to?

If Belichick cheats in the NFL, well wrongs in the NFL are not more important than the wrongs in society. Yet when Vick does something completely outside of the NFL, and gets punishment handed down from the NFL, the NFL can do what they want because they are not subject to the rules of our society. Brilliant!!
We're NOT talking about criminal punishment here. We're talking about punishment for "conduct detrimental to the league" (whatever that means). You do agree that both were punished for conduct detrimental to the league? Which was MORE detrimental to the league?



I didn't use the word sovereign, you did. I said both hurt the NFL but what Vick did was worse in my mind and that is my opinion. Even if it doesn't "work" for you.

And as far as being "outside the NFL" that is rubbish but something i'd expect from a lawyer. Vick lost millions because companies thought what he did hurt the NFL and their businesses. Why is that if it wasn't bad for the NFL? Why were Vick jerseys pulled? Because what he did was such a huge boone for the NFL? The NFL is about a lot more than what goes on on the field. The NFL is a game, it's a business and it's a way of life in this country. If you think cheating on some signals sends a worse message about the men in the NFL as opposed to pitting dogs against each other then killing them when it's over, i feel real bad for your parents for failing so badly. And obviously the NFL agrees with me. Now you can play the "just because i'm in the minority doesn't mean i'm wrong" card.

[AbeBeta]

there were probably many witches in Salem too

so you are saying that if teams knew they could put a camera person on the opponent's sidelines and get some advantage that they wouldn't? that it was only the Pats that figured this out?

Come on. You know that is BS.

[Dallas]

I think it means that there are likely many teams cheating.

This is a copy cat league, you know.


I do think other teams do a small amount of this. What surprises me is the BLATANT disregard to league policy by the Pats. The freakin NFL sent out the memo before the season started saying that you CANNOT do what the Pats did.


It takes BIG/LARGE/BRASS one's to allow your spy to go film the other team in the 1st opening game.

HUGE ones.


The bad thing is the Pats knew the league was aware of all the shananigans they were doing. Teams were reporting the oddities. I am just thankful the NFL caught them in the act and exposed them for all to see.

[Bob Sacamano]

so you are saying that if teams knew they could put a camera person on the opponent's sidelines and get some advantage that they wouldn't? that it was only the Pats that figured this out?

Come on. You know that is BS.

I'm saying I dont' want to start a witch-hunt

[peplaw06]

Do you think that Vick and his lawyers are all over this leniency in regards to no suspension when it comes to Vick and his attempt at getting back into league?

Will they try and say that his time in jail was time served for suspension. Will they try to get only a year total suspension?I don't know man.... it's something they'll probably think about, but whether they actually address this with the Commish is another story.

They're trying to make a big play on this contrition angle, and if they were to go to the Commish and say, "yeah but you only gave Belichick x," then it sounds like they're not as remorseful as he has seemed to be so far. It also would seem like he's not owning up to his mistakes.

Goodell seems to be big on remorse. he wants others to feel it... as long as they're players doing unsavory things off the field.

They're completely different situations. It's not easy to compare them. But my $.02, Belichick's actions no doubt are more detrimental to the perception of the league, no question.

[AbeBeta]

I'm saying I dont' want to start a witch-hunt

If there was one, you'd have about 10 1st round picks and a bunch of REALLY high 2nds then.

[peplaw06]

I think it means that there are likely many teams cheating.

This is a copy cat league, you know.
Uh oh, summer. Here's a fan who thinks other teams are probably cheating too :eek:

Wonder if Abby thinks that a large contingent of NFL players fighting dogs??

[REDVOLUTION]

I don't know man.... it's something they'll probably think about, but whether they actually address this with the Commish is another story.

They're trying to make a big play on this contrition angle, and if they were to go to the Commish and say, "yeah but you only gave Belichick x," then it sounds like they're not as remorseful as he has seemed to be so far. It also would seem like he's not owning up to his mistakes.

Goodell seems to be big on remorse. he wants others to feel it... as long as they're players doing unsavory things off the field.

They're completely different situations. It's not easy to compare them. But my $.02, Belichick's actions no doubt are more detrimental to the perception of the league, no question.

They could work it into a combo deal WITH the contrition angle.
Vick is sorry, he has learned blah blah blah... then Commish says, ok 2 years... but Commish, Bullicheat didnt get anything and he affected the integrity of the game?

[Dallas]

So how do folks see the Pats now?

Exposed as video cheaters. The head coach and organization is fined for the maximum allowed. They will make the play-offs and lose that 1st round pick. That is a big deal for any ball club. I don't care who you are.


So after all of this. After all the information we know right now about BB and the Pats.


Are those SB titles tainted? Do they stack up to how you feel about the Dallas dynasty of old?

Take the homer out of this and really think about it.


Those Pat teams were STACKED w/ talent. They could beat just about anyone at anytime.

Still - why cheat? What was the cheating buying you? Did you only use the information if games were going to be to close to call?

How would you feel if you were BB? I mean all we are seeing from the BSPN spin crew is "Everyone does it".

Well it doesn't seem that way or there would be recent stories of all of these clubs really trying to peep the other team.


For me its black and white. The Patriot Super Bowl runs are tainted. They have to be now. There is doubt. At least w/ me.

[SultanOfSix]

I love the bizarro logic elucidated by some on this forum. => is the symbol for implies:

One team cheats and gets caught => multiple teams cheat.

[Bob Sacamano]

Uh oh, summer. Here's a fan who thinks other teams are probably cheating too :eek:

he's entitled to his opinion, but just like most NFL players aren't *******s, since only a small contigent have broken the law, that we know of, I feel that not many teams are cheaters, that we know of

Wonder if Abby thinks that a large contingent of NFL players fighting dogs??

LOL I never said anything of the sort

nice try though

[peplaw06]

I didn't use the word sovereign, you did. I said both hurt the NFL but what Vick did was worse in my mind and that is my opinion. Even if it doesn't "work" for you.

And as far as being "outside the NFL" that is rubbish but something i'd expect from a lawyer. Vick lost millions because companies thought what he did hurt the NFL and their businesses. Why is that if it wasn't bad for the NFL? Why were Vick jerseys pulled? Because what he did was such a huge boone for the NFL? The NFL is about a lot more than what goes on on the field. The NFL is a game, it's a business and it's a way of life in this country. If you think cheating on some signals sends a worse message about the men in the NFL as opposed to pitting dogs against each other then killing them when it's over, i feel real bad for your parents for failing so badly. And obviously the NFL agrees with me. Now you can play the "just because i'm in the minority doesn't mean i'm wrong" card.The sponsors fired Vick because it was a black eye on them.

The jerseys were pulled because it was a black eye on Vick. Ya think their overall jersey sales have dropped dramatically?

Belichick and the Pats actions are a direct indictment of the ON THE FIELD product that the NFL is putting forth. There is suspicion about the integrity of the league as a whole. Most people think that there have to be other teams who have been trying to cheat.

Do you think that most people believe that there are many other NFL players who are running dog fighting kennels?

And if you think some off the field incident speaks more about the integrity of the game than actually cheating while playing said game, then I feel sorry that you didn't get a better edumacation in the Dakotas.