We need to keep Victor Butler - Dallas Cowboys Forum

TheCount · 02-21-2013

One thing not a lot of people are talking about is what happens if Ware gets injured this year? The guy is a warrior and doesn't want to come off the field even when he's hurting, but he was largely ineffective down the stretch and he's getting older.

If he has to miss a couple of games, who's taking over as a pass rusher on the weak side if Anthony Spencer isn't here? We currently have NO ONE on the roster I'd be happy with, and a lot of the draft focus has been on a DE to play the strong side.

Butler was just okay as a 3-4 OLB, but don't forget the guy had 22 sacks in his final two years before leaving Oregon State. He has a history as a pass rusher, and a 4-3 may be just what the doctor ordered.

If we end up not keeping Spencer, I'd divert some of those funds to Butler even if he's just a rotational guy and an insurance policy. Ware's neck and shoulder/arm are a bit worrying and we at least have a few years of watching Butler take on NFL talent, which is not the case for these draft guys.

lwehlers · 02-21-2013

i also agree that butler can still be a good pass rusher and spell ware. butler probaly will not cost to much to keep.

TheRomoSexual · 02-21-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwehlers

i also agree that butler can still be a good pass rusher and spell ware. butler probaly will not cost to much to keep.

I think you might be surprised at what kind of contract Butler may get in free agency.

lwehlers · 02-21-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRomoSexual

I think you might be surprised at what kind of contract Butler may get in free agency.

you might be right about that since butler is only 25 or 26 i think. teams do pay alot for players that play defensive end at that age. some 3-4 teams might think that he can be a good spot starter for them also.

Woods · 02-21-2013

I think the intention may be to put K Wilbur behind Ware. At least that's what I read . . . .

**big dog cowboy** · 02-21-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woods

I think the intention may be to put K Wilbur behind Ware. At least that's what I read . . . .

Either that or draft a promising pass rush DE in the 3-4 rounds.

RoyTheHammer · 02-21-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRomoSexual

I think you might be surprised at what kind of contract Butler may get in free agency.

I think YOU might be suprised at what kind of contract Butler would get in FA.

He's done absoultely NOTHING in the NFL so far.

TheCount · 02-22-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyTheHammer

I think YOU might be suprised at what kind of contract Butler would get in FA.

He's done absoultely NOTHING in the NFL so far.

Your definition of "nothing" is rather fanciful.

Typhus · 02-22-2013

Lee projects as a natural fit at MLB, but another possible option is moving Lee to SOLB, and finding a MLB in free agency.

I like the idea of having Carter and Lee outside with their speed and playmaking ability, until the safties are upgraded.

RoyTheHammer · 02-22-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCount

Your definition of "nothing" is rather fanciful.

What has he done in 4 years to earn any kind of substantial contract? He's played 4 years and has 89 total tackles, most of them on ST's. His best year, he had 25 total tackles and 3 sacks.. while barely getting any playing time. He's a nobody, who is easily replaced if we decide to get rid of him.

xwalker · 02-21-2013

It depends on what other mid-level guys they might be able to get in Free Agency.

Butler could be the Nickel pass-rusher combined with Crawford in the base on the side opposite of Ware. This would keep him out of run defense situations. If Ware was injured, I don't know if you would want Butler to be his backup in the base defense. Butler is just not good against the run.

The under-contract options to backup Ware at Weak-Side DE are:

Albright
Wilbur
Cameron Sheffield (6-2 257)

Albright might be a good option to backup Ware in the base defense if he is not the SLB. He seems to be strong at the point of attack.

CowboysFaninDC · 02-21-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCount

One thing not a lot of people are talking about is what happens if Ware gets injured this year? The guy is a warrior and doesn't want to come off the field even when he's hurting, but he was largely ineffective down the stretch and he's getting older.

If he has to miss a couple of games, who's taking over as a pass rusher on the weak side if Anthony Spencer isn't here? We currently have NO ONE on the roster I'd be happy with, and a lot of the draft focus has been on a DE to play the strong side.

Butler was just okay as a 3-4 OLB, but don't forget the guy had 22 sacks in his final two years before leaving Oregon State. He has a history as a pass rusher, and a 4-3 may be just what the doctor ordered.

[View Full Quote]

he is way too undersized to play DE in a 4-3, which is hte position ware plays. he would be engulfed in the running game and wouldn't be a good match up against LTs as a DE. what he did in college hasn't been replicated in the pros and that's the proof we need. not what he did 3 years ago against inferior competition, but what he has done in the NFL.

he is a liability in coverage. has missed assignments. is a liability against the run. moving to a 4-3 DE ain't going to make any of those better. he just doesn't fit

**jobberone** · 02-21-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboysFaninDC

he is way too undersized to play DE in a 4-3, which is hte position ware plays. he would be engulfed in the running game and wouldn't be a good match up against LTs as a DE. what he did in college hasn't been replicated in the pros and that's the proof we need. not what he did 3 years ago against inferior competition, but what he has done in the NFL.

he is a liability in coverage. has missed assignments. is a liability against the run. moving to a 4-3 DE ain't going to make any of those better. he just doesn't fit

Whether or not anyone agrees, this is the question with him unless you plan to play him as a LB.

I just don't have a good feel for him as a run stopper. My impression is like yours and he can't stand up to the run well enough. I've wondered if he wouldn't make a good Will. I've penciled in Carter as the Will but Carter could play the Sam. There's a lot of options at LB. I'm just not certain he can play the run well enough to trust. I have no doubts about his ability to pressure the QB and for those that want Freeney here this guy could be another solution to a spot rusher on passing downs as well.

CowboysFaninDC · 02-21-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by jobberone

Whether or not anyone agrees, this is the question with him unless you plan to play him as a LB.

I just don't have a good feel for him as a run stopper. My impression is like yours and he can't stand up to the run well enough. I've wondered if he wouldn't make a good Will. I've penciled in Carter as the Will but Carter could play the Sam. There's a lot of options at LB. I'm just not certain he can play the run well enough to trust. I have no doubts about his ability to pressure the QB and for those that want Freeney here this guy could be another solution to a spot rusher on passing downs as well.

I am concerned about his ability in space and in those roles he would get matched up against TEs and RBs. he is not that good in turning and running with TEs or RBs. his role was very limited with dallas. come in on obvious pasisng situations and rush the passer. and some of his sacks were coverage sacks. the time spencer was hurt and he got to play extensively, he was exposed badly

**jobberone** · 02-21-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboysFaninDC

I am concerned about his ability in space and in those roles he would get matched up against TEs and RBs. he is not that good in turning and running with TEs or RBs. his role was very limited with dallas. come in on obvious pasisng situations and rush the passer. and some of his sacks were coverage sacks. the time spencer was hurt and he got to play extensively, he was exposed badly

I'm not a huge fan but I just don't know the guy. I know he has the talent to rush the passer although he's not developed many moves. That's probably because he doesn't have the strength and/or technique to bull rush and either doesn't have or we didn't see enough snaps to see an inside move or spin move.

This guy is more of a Will IMO although I tend to agree with you about his coverage abilities. However, I'm not certain. My guess is someone will pay more for his services than we will. If not then they'll offer him some low contract likely with incentives and let him compete at LB and/or DE.