Pressure on BP

[sportsman]

to win thiis year. Anything less than the playoffs is not exceptable.
Do you all agree?

[StonetheCrow77]

nope, don't agree... I think if the the team shows a huge improvement, then I can take that... they are playing a lot of new, young players... I expect the playoffs, but if they show fight and improvement... then, I can't complain too much...

[Q_the_man]

I will be highly disappointed to not make the Playoffs, for that fact the NFC championship or Super Bowl....6-10, 7-9 8-8 or even 9-7 is not acceptable. that means we win one week lose the next and that is not cool, Period

[Cajuncowboy]

The thing is, Like Stone said, we have alot of new guys and it takes time to mesh as a unit. For me, I would love to go to the Super Bowl and win it, obviously, but the reality is that we will probably have some struggles early on and then show vast improvement in the second half of the year and MAYBE make the playoffs but in all likleyhood, be a team who just misses them but is on the edge of being a contender.

[KDWilliams85]

To have lofty expectations of any team at this point is irrational and unacceptable. You're not accounting for what could happen. You're taking into account events that already have.

Bottom line: Expectations at this point of the offseason are just stupid to have. Wait until after training camp to have expectations of the Cowboys.

[StonetheCrow77]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

To have lofty expectations of any team at this point is irrational and unacceptable. You're not accounting for what could happen. You're taking into account events that already have.

Bottom line: Expectations at this point of the offseason are just stupid to have. Wait until after training camp to have expectations of the Cowboys.

well, that's a good thing about expectations... they can change with any given circumstance... the circumstances as they stand "should" point to a strong team...

[Cajuncowboy]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

To have lofty expectations of any team at this point is irrational and unacceptable. You're not accounting for what could happen. You're taking into account events that already have.

Bottom line: Expectations at this point of the offseason are just stupid to have. Wait until after training camp to have expectations of the Cowboys.

I have to disagree. I think you can have expectations based on some of the moves that were made. For example, If a team is weak on the Defensive line and they sign two stud D linemen I think it is a fair expectation that the productivity goes up. Same for any other area.

Expectations are ok but it's the UNREAL expectations that are really absurd. Like saying this team is going to win the next three Super Bowls is kinda out there. But to seek improvement and expect it, I don't think that's too far fetched.

[KDWilliams85]

Originally Posted by cajuncowboy

I have to disagree. I think you can have expectations based on some of the moves that were made. For example, If a team is weak on the Defensive line and they sign two stud D linemen I think it is a fair expectation that the productivity goes up. Same for any other area.

Expectations are ok but it's the UNREAL expectations that are really absurd. Like saying this team is going to win the next three Super Bowls is kinda out there. But to seek improvement and expect it, I don't think that's too far fetched.

Not plausible. That's having expectations based on what you have instead of what could/would happen. Given that you can gain aspirations from what you have, but you can't expect anything from them until you have a feasible idea of what you have. Mini-camps don't give you that idea while training camp does.

[LaTunaNostra]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

To have lofty expectations of any team at this point is irrational and unacceptable. You're not accounting for what could happen. You're taking into account events that already have.

Bottom line: Expectations at this point of the offseason are just stupid to have. Wait until after training camp to have expectations of the Cowboys.

"Irrational" or not, lofty expectations are the nature of fandom, and even the darkest of the darksider usually breathes unpolluted air before the season opens. "Unacceptable", laugh! Well to whom are lofty expectations unacceptable? Certainly not to Jerry Jones thru Bill Parcells on down to the rookies.

I have the expectation that at age 63 Bill Parcells will do everything possble not to suffer two consecutive losing seasons for the first time in his long career.

I have the expectation the money JJ threw around in offseason will result in more than last offseason's frugality.

I have the expectation what has been termed an A draft by even the perpetually cyncial like Rich Gosselin will bear reasonably ripe fruit.

I have the expectation injury will take its toll, breaks will fall against us as well as for us, our opponents will also be improved, and the unforseeable will raise its head a few times...but that the team will be improved, and demonstrate so.

The expectation that the franchise is on the right track, "stupid" tho it may be is borne of observing with something resembling a clear head and adequately functioning reason.

Enough has happened since January to logically expect a competitive year.

[jobberone]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

To have lofty expectations of any team at this point is irrational and unacceptable.

Fans have expectations for their teams. They have the expectations they desire and not what others believe although some fans will modify their beliefs based on others points of view while others seem to feel they have the answers and need no other input.

Fans expectations are neither irrational or unacceptable in any healthy sense I know of. Perhaps you might suggest they might be a little unrealistic or unreasonable but since no one can really predict the future well then that makes all opinions more or less valid.

You certainly may desire them to hold your opinions but it's not reasonable IMO to expect many to change their opinions to suit you.

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

You're not accounting for what could happen. You're taking into account events that already have.

I'm not certain what that means.

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

Bottom line: Expectations at this point of the offseason are just stupid to have.

It is a cognitive distortion to label others opinions as stupid. Generally that arises from an unhealthy narcissistic personality.

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

Wait until after training camp to have expectations of the Cowboys.

Changing expectations are often the result of reality but there is no reason not to have some expectations now, during and after camp. I suspect you would deal better with others if you allow them to think for themselves. Of course I'm now guilty for giving unsolicited advice so please forgive.

[KDWilliams85]

Originally Posted by jobberone

Fans have expectations for their teams. They have the expectations they desire and not what others believe although some fans will modify their beliefs based on others points of view while others seem to feel they have the answers and need no other input.

You describe aspirations, not expectations.

Fans expectations are neither irrational or unacceptable in any healthy sense I know of. Perhaps you might suggest they might be a little unrealistic or unreasonable but since no one can really predict the future well then that makes all opinions more or less valid.

Irrationality stems from one's lack of clairvoyance. At this point, any circumstance is an assumption governed by wishful thinking rather than an aspiration governed by present events.

You certainly may desire them to hold your opinions but it's not reasonable IMO to expect many to change their opinions to suit you.

I don't expect anyone to hold an opinion similiar to mine. However, I do aspire for someone to share the same view as me.

It is a cognitive distortion to label others opinions as stupid. Generally that arises from an unhealthy narcissistic personality.

Perhaps if I called anyone specific stupid. However, I did not address anyone in such a manner. I addressed the very idea as stupid.

[/i]

Changing expectations are often the result of reality but there is no reason not to have some expectations now, during and after camp. I suspect you would deal better with others if you allow them to think for themselves. Of course I'm now guilty for giving unsolicited advice so please forgive.

You're a hypocrite for saying that. To be critical of my view makes you as narcissistic as you claim me to be. And by making that assumption, it makes your take on the subject irrational. Since it is your opinion of such, I won't demean you by saying it isn't valid. But, I will say it is quite worthless.

[jobberone]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

[/b]You describe aspirations, not expectations.



Irrationality stems from one's lack of clairvoyance. At this point, any circumstance is an assumption governed by wishful thinking rather than an aspiration governed by present events.

I suggest you take a look at something written by David Burns or others in regards to effective communication and cogitive distortions. I'd also suggest you review some of the definitions of the words you've chosen.

Irrationality does not stem from a lack of clairvoyance. First of all no one is clairvoyant in general. Perhaps there are a few people who can see the future but I'd have to say from a medical standpoint that's generally used in movies in a willing suspension of disbelief.

Believing one can see the future and tell what someone else is thinking or feeling or going to do is the cognitive distortion called mind reading.

Irrationality is a belief not based on what would be considered by most people as reasonable or one derived from a lack of "normal" mental clarity.

Having an opinion or even desire to see the team do well is normal activity for a football fan; or a fan of anything. Or it's just a healthy desire to see someone do well; such as believing your son will do well in school this year. That's not clairvoyance but merely human desire expressed in a healthy fashion.

I have no idea what you mean by your second sentence. The sentence structuce seems proper but your choice of words leaves me having to assume you mean thinking the team will do well is wishful thinking. I think most knowledgable fans would recognize the teams general place in the overall power structure of the NFL and understand they cannot predict the future with any certainty. However most generally get the relative odds of success and failure in the ballpark. Expressing views in this forum is a healthy activity overall. Perhaps some of us spend a little too much time here but I don't presume to know that or judge anyone on that basis. And of course many of us are here because we are fans of the Cowboys and want to believe they will be successful. And we will be disappointed if they are not. Taking this too seriously is not healthy but it's still a normal hobby as long as it does not disrupt the life of the fan or others.

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

I don't expect anyone to hold an opinion similiar to mine. However, I do aspire for someone to share the same view as me.

As a judgmental statement it appears you think others opinions are not as relatively accurate and important as yours. I could be wrong but it certainly appears that way.

If you would present your credentials as an expert on football as well as having inside information perhaps I would entertain the notion of viewing some of your opinions in higher regard that the vast majority of others on this forum when they contain information not readily available to the rest of us. There are a few people here who do have inside information and there are some very knowlegable football people here including former players and current coaches. Otherwise I will value your opinion on an equal basis with others.

For you to aspire others share your same view is not unheathly but it appears your desire is excessive. Again that is a judgmental statement that could easily be wrong. Only you can be the judge of that.

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

Perhaps if I called anyone specific stupid. However, I did not address anyone in such a manner. I addressed the very idea as stupid.

You did address people here in general so you did imply some were stupid for basing their beliefs on a value system different from yours. This is the cognitive distortion of labeling and I stand by my initial statement.

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

You're a hypocrite for saying that. To be critical of my view makes you as narcissistic as you claim me to be. And by making that assumption, it makes your take on the subject irrational. Since it is your opinion of such, I won't demean you by saying it isn't valid. But, I will say it is quite worthless.

Those are valid points. Labeling me as a hypocrite is one way it appears to me you are having problems with others here on this forum. My last statement and intial statement were made in a constructive manner and this entire lengthy discussion is meant to be constuctive. It is time consuming on my part and certainly boring to others IMO. I am worried that not doing this thru a PM makes me appear to be "smacking" you and that would be a valid view from your standpoint IMO. Again it is meant as contructive. There are others who may benefit if they will from this discussion. However, any further communication along these lines will be done if at all by me via PMs to you.

And you are welcome to PM me anytime like anyone else as long as conversations are civil, cordial and courteous.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

To have lofty expectations of any team at this point is irrational and unacceptable. You're not accounting for what could happen. You're taking into account events that already have.

Bottom line: Expectations at this point of the offseason are just stupid to have. Wait until after training camp to have expectations of the Cowboys.

Jeez, that's just ridiculous.

Parcells: "Hello men. We're shooting for mediocrity unless at Training Camp you really show me something. Then we'll adjust our thinking and raise our goals and expectations."

Once the season ends the goal is to get better. Once you start adding the better personnel expactations rise. Not just for the Head Coach and his staff. They rise everywhere.

To think that Dallas is not looking to be vastly improved with the personnel acquisitions of this off season is myopic at best. You can bet your bottom dollar that the goal upon the completion of last season was the playoffs this year. So far, everything they have done is pointed towards a return there.

The expectations started the day the season ended. You're trying to put your personal viewpoint on the situation and paint everyone into that box. Not going to happen. Sorry, you live in an "irrational and unacceptable" world.

[jksmith269]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Jeez, that's just ridiculous.

Parcells: "Hello men. We're shooting for mediocrity unless at Training Camp you really show me something. Then we'll adjust our thinking and raise our goals and expectations."

Once the season ends the goal is to get better. Once you start adding the better personnel expactations rise. Not just for the Head Coach and his staff. They rise everywhere.

To think that Dallas is not looking to be vastly improved with the personnel acquisitions of this off season is myopic at best. You can bet your bottom dollar that the goal upon the completion of last season was the playoffs this year. So far, everything they have done is pointed towards a return there.

[View Full Quote]The expectations started the day the season ended. You're trying to put your personal viewpoint on the situation and paint everyone into that box. Not going to happen. Sorry, you live in an "irrational and unacceptable" world.

[KDWilliams85]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Jeez, that's just ridiculous.

Parcells: "Hello men. We're shooting for mediocrity unless at Training Camp you really show me something. Then we'll adjust our thinking and raise our goals and expectations."

Once the season ends the goal is to get better. Once you start adding the better personnel expactations rise. Not just for the Head Coach and his staff. They rise everywhere.

To think that Dallas is not looking to be vastly improved with the personnel acquisitions of this off season is myopic at best. You can bet your bottom dollar that the goal upon the completion of last season was the playoffs this year. So far, everything they have done is pointed towards a return there.

[View Full Quote]The expectations started the day the season ended. You're trying to put your personal viewpoint on the situation and paint everyone into that box. Not going to happen. Sorry, you live in an "irrational and unacceptable" world.

Heh. It's funny that you use an expectation to justify the use of them. You would have made a better case if you said this:

"Hello men. It's the offseason training and conditioning programs. Last season is over with. You all start clean. We have nowhere to go but up so let's see what you have to offer."

No expectations. Just aspirations and potential.

After training camp:

"Hello men. Now that you have gotten yourselves back into a football frame of mind, I have come to expect that you give me everything you have every week. What you had before is no longer good enough."

You have expectations now based on what you've seen instead of what you're hoping to see.

That makes more sense. Of course offseason signings and the draft alter the perception of expectations, but they aren't expectations to begin with. They're clauses of conditionality. You think that:

"Ware was an explosive rusher in college. We expect that it'll carry over to the NFL."

That's an expectation based on previous events. Those mean nothing now.

While, it should be:

"Ware was an explosive rusher in college. We're hoping that he can elevate that talent to the NFL level."

That's an aspiration based on previous events but on the potential to see what he can do. Not on what he has already done.

I, personally, don't know if you don't get the logic behind it or not... but I think I've made the difference between an expectation and an aspiration clear.

It's up to you to accept it or not. Disappointment will come from expectations. A learning experience will come from aspiration.