Question for the "older" fans - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Jack-Reacher · 11-19-2005

I apologize if this question has been asked before, but I am leaning firmly against my newbie status so I can plead ignorance and ask anyway! LOL

For those of us who were fans of the cowboys when Jerry Jones bought the team certainly recall all of the turmoil he created almost immediately. The firing of Coach Landry in particular and the hiring of Jimmy Johnson who was hated almost unanimously at first. The question is this: At what point did you begin to appreciate what Jerry Jones has done for the franchise? Do you appreciate what he has done? Has he honored the legacy of this team?

I ask this question because of the questions surrounding TO possibly coming to Dallas. No this isn’t a what do you think of TO it just got me to thinking that it could set JJ back almost as much as he was when he bought the team.

I personally could not stand the guy initially and it wasn’t until the trouble between Jerry and Jimmy that I started warming up to the guy. I realized then that he is dedicated to winning but I still had reservations about him. The hiring of Bill Parcells has since removed all of my reservations and the fact that he has relinquished control to Parcells played a major role in this.

I don’t want to isolate the board but I would really like the opinions of those of us who lived through all of these times. Especially if you were around for the Staubach era. This is when I became a fan, if you can remember Meredith playing then you are probably too old to type, or if you helped the Dallas Texans move to Kansas City then unplug from life support long enough to reply and god bless you.. lol j/k

Seriously, I would like your opinions!

Jon

CliffnMesquite · 11-19-2005

I attended my first Cowboys game in 1966. Who's to old to type.

Jack-Reacher · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by CliffnMesquite

I attended my first Cowboys game in 1966. Who's to old to type.

Holy cow how bad do you shake?

I hope nobody took offense at my post, it is late my son is not sleeping and things that might not be funny seem to be!

CliffnMesquite · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTRS-Jon

Holy cow how bad do you shake?

I hope nobody took offense at my post, it is late my son is not sleeping and things that might not be funny seem to be!

Shake? Hell I was only six years old!

MinnesotaCowboy · 11-19-2005

Old?.......hell, I was a senior at SMU when Don Meredith was a sophomore!.....I still get a big kick out of the boys and have been watching about them on TV forever! How is this for a fan.........I was in Korea in "67-68" and I had my wife tape the "Ice Bowl" game off the radio and send me a copy.........by tape I mean the old "reel to reel" type that all you youngsters have probably never seen..........I guarantee you one thing: If I lived close to Big D I would have season tickets every year for the remainder of my great life..........How is that for old.......

Jack-Reacher · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinnesotaCowboy

Old?.......hell, I was a senior at SMU when Don Meredith was a sophomore!.....I still get a big kick out of the boys and have been watching about them on TV forever! How is this for a fan.........I was in Korea in "67-68" and I had my wife tape the "Ice Bowl" game off the radio and send me a copy.........by tape I mean the old "reel to reel" type that all you youngsters have probably never seen..........I guarantee you one thing: If I lived close to Big D I would have season tickets every year for the remainder of my great life..........How is that for old.......

You sir have my utmost respect and admiration!!

Hostile · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinnesotaCowboy

Old?.......hell, I was a senior at SMU when Don Meredith was a sophomore!.....I still get a big kick out of the boys and have been watching about them on TV forever! How is this for a fan.........I was in Korea in "67-68" and I had my wife tape the "Ice Bowl" game off the radio and send me a copy.........by tape I mean the old "reel to reel" type that all you youngsters have probably never seen..........I guarantee you one thing: If I lived close to Big D I would have season tickets every year for the remainder of my great life..........How is that for old.......

That's just bad ***. One of the best stories of devotion I've heard in a long time.

Chocolate Lab · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinnesotaCowboy

Old?.......hell, I was a senior at SMU when Don Meredith was a sophomore!.....I still get a big kick out of the boys and have been watching about them on TV forever! How is this for a fan.........I was in Korea in "67-68" and I had my wife tape the "Ice Bowl" game off the radio and send me a copy.........by tape I mean the old "reel to reel" type that all you youngsters have probably never seen..........I guarantee you one thing: If I lived close to Big D I would have season tickets every year for the remainder of my great life..........How is that for old.......

Great story!

It's funny, Jerry buying the team wasn't THAT long ago, but coverage was so much different then. We didn't have 24-hour ESPNews and the internet to follow along every second. But I still remember that picture of Jerruh and Jimmuh eating at that mexican food restaurant in Dallas... That was when everyone knew for sure what was going on.

What I remember was that everyone knew the organization needed a shakeup, but they weren't sure how to go about it. The state the organization had fallen into wasn't all Landry's fault by any means, but he had slipped. No one knew how it would work out because Tom Landry was practically a revered head of state, and everyone knew that there was no guarantee a new coach would be any better. But I do remember Jimmy Johnson being mentioned as someone people speculated about even before we'd ever heard of Jerral Jones. Why? Because he was a big winner at Miami, he ran a pro-style offense (back when option-style offenses were still popular) and he was known as someone who wasn't afraid to delegate authority to his coaches. At the time it was thought that Landry took too much on himself in an increasingly complicated game. (Yet here we are in 2005 with Parcells having his hand in every position.)

I don't remember having strong feelings about Jerry one way or another, though plenty of people did. Yes, he bungled the Landry firing and made turnip-truck comments about the cheerleaders being "the pick of the litter". But I remember the focus being much more on Jimmy Johnson and what he was doing with the team much more than the owner.

Skip · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MinnesotaCowboy

Old?.......hell, I was a senior at SMU when Don Meredith was a sophomore!.....I still get a big kick out of the boys and have been watching about them on TV forever! How is this for a fan.........I was in Korea in "67-68" and I had my wife tape the "Ice Bowl" game off the radio and send me a copy.........by tape I mean the old "reel to reel" type that all you youngsters have probably never seen..........I guarantee you one thing: If I lived close to Big D I would have season tickets every year for the remainder of my great life..........How is that for old.......

You have me by a few years, but I was at a SMU/Baylor game back when that was a big game and saw Meredith play and Ronnie Bull was the big guy on the Baylor team and was a great game. I think it was Don's a senior that year. I th I was a fan of both teams then and when the Cowboys signed Dandy Don I became a Cowboys fan.

And yes I was a fan of the Dallas Texans/KC Chiefs before and followed them after that, but the Cowboys became my team and it has never changed. There have been many good years and a few bad ones, but more that I could be excited about the players and overall team. I am still mad that we didn't win 4 in a row just because the 2 ego's were so big they could not fit in the same town even if it was something special they had built.

As to Jerry....I wanted a change at the time, however I was not happy that so much changed and took a wait and see poster about Jerry Jones. The final thing that made me finally have some respect for Jones was when he finally got a real coach again. Jimmy was too much for his ego at the time, but the losing finally broke him from thinking he could just will any coach he wanted to be a winner or even thinking he could do it his self. I was and am still really happy with him getting Parcells to join our team and make it a strong winner again.

**MichaelWinicki** · 11-19-2005

I guess I'm one of the few that didn't hate Jerreh from day 1. Quite honestly I liked the guy and liked what he was doing. If anyone tells you they were still on the Tom Landry bandwagon at the end of 1988 I would have to call them a fibber... literally everyone was calling for Landry's head at that point-- respectfully of course!

God knows Tom did earn that respect and obviously Jerreh's handling of the whole dismissal created a PR nightmare for the new ownership. But even then I could see that the previous ownership did a huge disservice to Jerry Jones BY NOT CLEANING OUT THE HOUSE before Jerry took over. That was pure cowardice by Bum & the rest.

By I remember to this day Jerry and Jimmy coming out and talking about how they were going to rebuild the team and were going to be aggressive about it. I applauded that because it was bold and aggressive. And I would applaud the signing of Terrell Owens the same way. I like bold and aggressive and who knows how far you can really go unless you go there? When on their death-bed most people regret what they haven't done in life as opposed to what they have done and if we have a legit chance at signing TO at a price that we can afford I so go for it and don't look back! Super-bowls are not easy to win and this could be the one thing that puts us over the top. And on that end I say...

Go Cowboys!

Jack-Reacher · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

I guess I'm one of the few that didn't hate Jerreh from day 1. Quite honestly I liked the guy and liked what he was doing. If anyone tells you they were still on the Tom Landry bandwagon at the end of 1988 I would have to call them a fibber... literally everyone was calling for Landry's head at that point-- respectfully of course!

God knows Tom did earn that respect and obviously Jerreh's handling of the whole dismissal created a PR nightmare for the new ownership. But even then I could see that the previous ownership did a huge disservice to Jerry Jones BY NOT CLEANING OUT THE HOUSE before Jerry took over. That was pure cowardice by Bum & the rest.

[View Full Quote]

Would you feel the same way if Jerry and Jimmy had not been successful? Bringing in TO does not gaurantee a SB victory. Being bold is one thing, taking insane risks are quite another. Is it possible for this team to get to and win the SB without signing TO? I think it is.

It wasn't so much that he fired Landry, it was how it was done that got everyone's panties in a wad.

**MichaelWinicki** · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTRS-Jon

Would you feel the same way if Jerry and Jimmy had not been successful? Bringing in TO does not guarantee a SB victory. Being bold is one thing, taking insane risks are quite another. Is it possible for this team to get to and win the SB without signing TO? I think it is.

It wasn't so much that he fired Landry, it was how it was done that got everyone's panties in a wad.

Boy Jon when you start throwing out "ifs" like that it could change the dynamics of any question such as...

"If the south won the Civil War would you still think X?"
"If JFK hadn't been assassinated would you still think X?"
"If you hadn't seen the picture of Hos wearing a dress would you still think X?"

See what I mean?

But the fact is they did accomplish what they did.

And I can tell you from being a business consultant for many years and working with over 2,000 of them... and by just being someone that studies people... We end up losing far more by being unaggressive when the opportunity hits than we do by being overly aggressive. Man's (generally speaking) low tolerance for risk holds us back in so many areas. And that's why I applaud Jerry Jones. He's committed a lot of mistakes but it was due to over aggressiveness as opposed to say Bid Bidwell and the Browns whom I see as being very passive when it comes to this sport and no matter what bad decisions Jerry has made over the years I would still take the Cowboys over just about every organization in football.

Again, if we have a reasonable shot at TO that doesn't kill us cap wise-- I say go for it!

DLCassidy · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

"If you hadn't seen the picture of Hos wearing a dress would you still think X?"

Has this been posted?

Hostile · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLCassidy

Has this been posted?

That's what I want to know.

Jack-Reacher · 11-19-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

Boy Jon when you start throwing out "ifs" like that it could change the dynamics of any question such as...

"If the south won the Civil War would you still think X?"
"If JFK hadn't been assassinated would you still think X?"
"If you hadn't seen the picture of Hos wearing a dress would you still think X?"

See what I mean?

But the fact is they did accomplish what they did.

Yes, the “if” does change the dynamic of the question but that is what its intent was. My question is do you consider him successful because he is bold or is it because he made a bold move and it paid off. Those are two very different reasons. It is easy to look back at it and say I would have supported it regardless but I doubt anyone would have. Being bold just for the nature of being bold is not always a positive thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

And I can tell you from being a business consultant for many years and working with over 2,000 of them... and by just being someone that studies people... We end up losing far more by being unaggressive when the opportunity hits than we do by being overly aggressive. Man's (generally speaking) low tolerance for risk holds us back in so many areas. And that's why I applaud Jerry Jones. He's committed a lot of mistakes but it was due to over aggressiveness as opposed to say Bid Bidwell and the Browns whom I see as being very passive when it comes to this sport and no matter what bad decisions Jerry has made over the years I would still take the Cowboys over just about every organization in football.

Again, if we have a reasonable shot at TO that doesn't kill us cap wise-- I say go for it!

As a business consultant then you also know that you must plan for and realize the risks of the “what if”. Certainly it is easy to get mired in mediocrity if you allow fear of your actions to prevent any bold actions. However, simply being a risk taker does not equate to sound business strategy. Long term strategic planning by its very nature is designed to reduce the risks of actions taken.

The TO issue cannot be looked at with the only question being can he help us get to the Super Bowl. That is one of the questions that have to be asked but in all fairness to the organization you have to ask all of the tough questions and you have to consider both best and worst case scenarios. If, in your mind you feel that the best case scenario payoff exceeds the worst case scenario cost then the decision is a simple one to make. You sign him and bring him in. However, if you tend to believe like I do that the best case scenario reward is not equal to but less than the worst case scenario cost then you pass on TO. This argument is meaningless in that neither one of us have the ability to make this decision anyway. Our only control is whether or not we attend the games or buy the merchandise etc etc.

I agree with you that Jerry’s boldness has defined this team. I appreciate what he has done for the franchise. It took him bringing in Parcells and admitting that he didn’t know everything about football for me to finally quit questioning his every move.

You can make an argument against boldness using Al Davis and Bob Kraft as examples. Al Davis is certainly known as a bold owner yet his actions have not equated into titles. Bob Kraft on the other hand is much more passive and his success has rivaled Jerry’s. Just being bold isn’t enough. Your boldness has got to pay off or man’s low tolerance for risk will eventually catch up with you.

My point in all of this, and I apologize for taking this long to get to it is this: Jerry’s success is what drove his popularity. The fact that he took risks could have and has burned him in the past. While I concur that it is nice to see a guy willing to risk a lot to gain a lot, the risk itself isn’t the defining factor. It is ultimately the success or failure of the risk that will define the action, not the action itself.

Jon