Justin Tuck DE, Notre Dame

[Natedawg44]

Thank you hendog

[Big Country]

Originally Posted by Marktui

He seems to be undersized at 6'5'' 261, but he seems to be able to rush the passer and was a linebacker earlier in his career at Notre Dame. Reports on him seem to be the same, that he is explosive and can get upfield quick. He is ND's all time sack leader. Looks like he's got some injuries, but with good weight work and his body maturing he could overcome that.

An nfl.com article analyzing defensive players that have good speed to strength ratios combined bench press, broad jump and vertical jump in consideration showed that players with good scores in these test were seemed to make good defenders. Scores of 70 and up were deemed good by the test. Merriman scored 75 while Tuck scored 72.

Here is the link:
http://nfl.com/draft/story/8322692

[View Full Quote]Anyway, I am doubtful that Merriman will even be there at 11, with all the press he seems to be getting. I think Tuck might be a good pick up, he might even still be available in the 2nd. Anybody have any opinions?

Although his bio on NFL.com has him listed as 275 lbs, I've seen listings of Michael Strahan at about 265 lbs... If a player has a strong body and good speed and plays with good leverage, I can see them making the college to professional football transition without much dropoff in play...

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by Dough Boy

ABQ,

I never said Tuck was a run stopping LB. I never diagreed about him being an undersized DE, I read your post to mean, he has never played LB at ND. If you are sayin they tried and moved him, that's fine.

At the end of the day, Most profiles think he can play OLB in a 3-4 scheme, consistent with what I'm saying. I have seen him play over the past two years at DE in a 4-3 scheme, and I think he can be a OLB ala Terrell Suggs.

To post my draft profiles:
NFL Draft Countdown -
Strengths: Excellent natural athletic ability...Tall and lanky...Explosive speed and quickness...Was very productive and a sack artist...Has a lot of experience against top competition...Is unblockable at times...Getting better every season.

[View Full Quote]Weaknesses: Undersized...Needs to continue to get bigger and stronger...Improving but still not a force against the run...Needs to show more discipline...Has to continue working on his technique...A possible 'tweener who could project to OLB in the pros, especially in a 3-4 scheme.

Notes: Notre Dame's all-time leader in sacks...Cousin of Adalius Thomas of the Baltimore Ravens...Has made major strides as an all-around player the last couple of years.

On the Clock -
Justin Tuck is the cousin of Baltimore Ravens linebacker Adalius Thomas. He began his career at Notre Dame as a linebacker before moving to defensive end the following year. He picked up five sacks in a reserve role that year and went on to break the teams single season sack record in 2003 with 13 1/2 sacks. He had six sacks this past season, breaking the school's career sack record with 24 1/2. He is one of the best pass rushers in the draft with great quickness and excellent closing speed getting to the quarterback. He has the speed to make plays all over the field but needs to bulk up some and increase his strength to play defensive end at the professional level. He could easily play outside backer in a 3-4 scheme, especially considering the fact that he is a converted linebacker. He is a true leader and was voted most valuable player by his teammates this past season. Durablity is a qustion mark for Tuck. He has had a shoulder injury and a major knee injury which ended his 2003 season prematurely. He has been working to improve his play against the run the past couple seasons but he still has room for improvement in that area. Tuck is an extremely talented player who is still developing as a defensive end. He will most likely be drafted in the top half of the second round but he could make a push to be selected in the latter portion of round one.

Notice the Bold Statement above


NFL.com

Tuck can also perform in a two-point stance as well as drop in coverage in some zone blitz situations. He's a solid tackler, aggressive to get to the ball and will bring his hips and unload on ball carriers. His biggest question is his ability to hold up at the point due to a frame that looks lean in the lower body. Still, he never gives up in pursuit, makes every effort to close rush lanes and has the sudden burst to make opposite field tackles. He has good burst to close and the body control to capture ball carriers in space.

I seem to recall you saying he was not a good tackler and does not play well in space....

Getting back to this after the weekend. Yes, I said that. He doesn't. He's terrible in coverage and he takes poor angles to the ball. He may have the natural ability to play well in space but he doesn't do it well. There is a definate difference between a player who should be able to play well and a player who actually does. Tuck does not play well in space. that is my assesment of the situations. Other's may not agree but I believe it's a none issue. He will not be playing LB in the NFL. He will be an edge rusher.

[LA=Pancakemaker]

The only problem I have drafting Tuck - will will be able to ge a helmet thats fits him?



Cone head>???????

[SuspectCorner]

Originally Posted by LA=Pancakemaker

The only problem I have drafting Tuck - will will be able to ge a helmet thats fits him?



Cone head>???????

that bullet head sure looks aerodynamic.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by Dough Boy

I'll answer. He played LB well enough. Also, how many games did you watch. The guy will make a good 3-4 DE. Do you know anything about the 3-4. Based on your above comments, no...

Why is he not a first round prospect - because drafting is an inexact science - something you should know about based on your inability to be factual and consistent.

I think we have beat this to death. I'm not sure how much you've seen Tuck play. Based on your writing, I would say little. Based on your comparisoin vs most draft scouts, I would little. Lastly, playing the run as a LB and playing the run as DE are totally different. To answer your question above - scouts say he dosen't play the run well as a DE.

Not that it matters, but I told you earlier that I watched about 5 ND games last year and 5 this year. Why did I have to post this again.

You want links: Here they go...

[View Full Quote]http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/tuck_justin

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/pla...ustintuck.html

http://2005.otcdraft.com/content/pro...JustinTuck.php

Unlike you, I don't have to create a story. Everything I posted I have a link to. Now for you, can you provide that link that supports your contention that Tuck got beat out of his LB spot? How about a link that supports your words, that he is a poor tackler? What about a link that supports him being a liability in coverage and can't play in space?

I can't what for your response on this one.

Again, the question was, have you ever watched this player play LB while at ND? Not, how many games have you watched. Have you ever seen him play LB at ND? I have. I answered you in an earlier post. I have been watching this kid play for a good 3 years close. I watched him as a freshman try to play LB but he was not a good LB. He was then moved to DE, where he found his position. I usually watch about 5 to 6 games a year. I have seen him play a lot. Have you ever seen him play LB?

Where did I say the guy will make a pretty good 3-4 DE? He'll never be a DE in a 3-4. Maybe an edge rusher but not a DE. I suspect your being creative again.

"Why is he not a first round prospect - because drafting is an inexact science - something you should know about based on your inability to be factual and consistent. " That's your answer? Nice. Way to avoid the question. I'll answer the question for you. Because he is not what you make him out to be. He is a nice edge pass rushing DE tweener. That's it.

The reason I wanted to be clear on how many games you've watched is because, if you've only watched him the last two year, then you've never seen him play LB. He has played DE for the last two seasons.

All the links that you provide, as I expected, are of him at DE. A point I expected to see. Vertually none of them talk about him as a LB. I can find no evaluations of him as an NFL LB, at all. What does that tell you? I can also find no link that supports your theory of him being able to play well in space, as a LB. My comment about him playing well in space is at the LB position. He doesn't do it well. If you are making the point that he plays well as a DE, in space, that's all well and good but what the hell does that have to do with him playing well in space as a LB? The whole point of this thread is that Tuck is a DE and not a LB.

If your going to post links to refute what I'm saying, at least post links that talk about the actual points discussed. In this case, it is Tuck as a LB. It has always been the point. The problem here is that you've jumped into the deep water and you didn't understand what was being discussed. The discussion was of Tuck as a LB. I said he will always be an edge rusher. I said he was one dimensional. I said he would be an excellent edge rusher. You made the point that he would be a LB in a 3-4. I agree, he can't be a LB in a 4-3. If he's going to play LB, it would have to be a 3-4. In fact, here is exactly what I posted on him being a 3-4 LB. "In a 3-4, I think you can move him around some but you gotta bring him to be effective. He can chase down plays but he seems to take false steps or miss diagnose plays a lot, when playing LB. In fairness, he has not played LB his whole career at ND but I suspect that's because he wasn't great at it. As a rush specialist, I'm all over the guy. I really think he can be effective if all he's asked to do is penetrate the line of scrimmage." However, even in a 3-4, he can be schemed. Offenses can dictate he covers the run. The only way to avoid this is to continuesly move him around. This would mean that the rest of your LBs would have to compensate. Can it be done? Yes, but it's not as easy as you could think.

I can not provide links to him playing have difficulty playing in space, as a LB because nobody sees him as one. He hasn't played there since he was a freshman so what does that tell you? I can not find a link that shows he was beaten out either. Links from 4 years ago are difficult to find but that's fine. I will conceed the point. I will, however, say that had he been able to play LB, he would have stayed there. He was naturally suited to rush end, something I've said all along, and that's where he played at ND.

You think he will be able to play as a 3-4 LB. I think he's strickly and edge rusher. We will see who is correct. I believe you will be disapointed if you expect him to be a LB. However, I believe you will be very pleased if you expect him to be a pass rusher. One dimensional is how I would describe him, at this point in his career. I would not be in favor of using a first round pick on him. Second, OK, but not first.

[speedkilz88]

Originally Posted by LA=Pancakemaker

The only problem I have drafting Tuck - will will be able to ge a helmet thats fits him?

Cone head>???????

Looks like Tuck is really a 6' 0" guy, with a 4 inch cone!