We're Gonna Mock This Town, Mock It Inside Out

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by DaBoys4Life

The only other team from what I've seen who's TE has caught more than 70 passes is the Colts. Dallas Clark has 77 catches on the season Reggie wayne has 83. Austin Collie has 43 catches and Pierre Garcon has 40 catches. So that's a total of 166 catches and 2,245 yards and 18 TD's. Although the TD passes maybe equal with the top 3 WR's these a huge disparity between yards and catches.

So, it's your contention that 113 catches in 12 games from your top 3 WRs is subpar production?? That's just asinine... that works out to 150 catches, for 2510 yards and 24 TDs in a 16 game season... this despite having a TE whose 16 game numbers project out to 97 catches for 990 yards... when you've got a TE catching that many passes, you have to be THRILLED with the top 3 WRs combining for 15o mor catches and 2500 more yards...

And if you're not content with that kind of production, you're helpless...

Meanwhile, you cite for comparison the number one ranked passing offense in the league, and a team that has thrown the ball 48 more times than the Cowboys have... if Romo had thrown the ball 48 more times in the last 12 games, the Cowboys' WRs would have somewhat better stats, too... no, the Boys aren't the top-rated passing team in the NFL; is that the only standard you'll accept, leading the league in every category??

Yeah, that'll happen... ROTFLMAO...

Our #1 WR only has 52 catches on the season while it's decent

Decent??

DECENT??

Are you out of your friggin' mind?? Miles' numbers project out to 69 catches, for 1235 yards and 12 TDs... and again, this on a team with a TE who's on pace for nearly 100 catches and 1000 yards his own self... and let's not forget that he only started to establish himself as a number one receiving threat in the fifth game, before that he had 5 catches for 81 yards and 1 TD in the first 4 games... which means that in the last 8 games, he's caught 44 passes for 847 yards and 8 TDs... which works out to an average of 5.5 catches per game, for 105 yards and a TD...

And that's an AVERAGE... extrapolate that out over a 16 game season, and you're looking at 88 catches for 1695 yards and 16 TDs...

Miles Austin is a true number one receiver in the NFL, period... you seem to be the only one who doesn't recognize that fact...

you still want more out of your #1.

No, I don't... I'll take 5.5 catches per game, 105 yards per game and a TD, and not ask for anything more...

RW our #2 has 32 catches. I don't want to make up anything but that has to be the bottom half of catches for #2 WR's some #3 has more catches than him.

But for the Cowboys, Roy is the number THREE option in the passing game... Witten is number one, Miles is number two, Roy is third... and how many teams' third receiving options have 32 catches for over 500 yards and 6 TDs??

And of course, you leave Crayton out of the equation altogether, and he's "only" given the Boys 29 catches for over 450 yards and 3 more receiving TDs (not to mention 2 punt return TDs)... how many teams in the league have a 4th receiving option who's that productive??

So what my suggestion is to bring in a guy who can be that lynch pin go to guy that is needed to produce in the clutch and can produce in the clutch. If we get a 70-100 catch per year guy the toss in Austin production and also witten. Then you can throw in that speed guy as a #3 that can stretch the field and make plays or you can get another 70-100 catch guy then have Austin be the dude that stretches the field. Kind of like how the Cards have Fitz Bolden and Breaston.

And my suggestion is the Boys have far more pressing needs than bringing in another stud WR with their first round pick... I mean, FAR more pressing needs... instead, I'd have them look to the 3rd round range for more of a speed threat to complement what we already have... and even then, I'm optimistic that Kevin Ogletree is a player on the rise, and will be more effective next season...

I also think that Romo has only just started to uncover what he has in Roy, and I still expect bigger and better things from that duo next year (and the rest of this year)...

So I reject categorically your misguided belief that the quickest way to take the next step forward is to go draft one of the "name" WRs... first off, I think our receiver corps is above average as it is, and more important, I'm cognizant that there have been a LOT of first round bust WRs in recent years...

So if we look at the teams who have been to the superbowl these past couple of years and who has won these past couple of years. I'd rather try to imitate them. Wouldn't you?

Actually, I'd rather not imitate anybody... I'd rather the Boys figure out what their personality is, and play to their strengths... I'd rather we upgrade the offensive line aggressively, on the theory that the secret to the last glory days of the Boys was arguably the best offensive line in the history of the NFL... I'd rather we have a team that lines up and doesn't try to trick opponents, but just knocks them back off the ball, a team that says "here we come, try and stop us"...

That's because I remember how much fun it was, the last time we had a team that could do that...

So our offseason should focus on aggressively upgrading the offensive line, looking to the future, then getting us a little more help in the secondary (particularly a playmaking safety), then addressing possible losses on the defensive line..

IOW, I want a meat and potatos draft this time around... I want to see us bring in some big uglies...

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by Rampage

didn't know that.

I figured that was the case, and I hope you didn't think I was trying to insult you...

just another reason not to waste a pick on this kid. he's not a football player. he's way too smart.

Uhhh, smart is a GOOD thing in a player, particularly in a safety... it suggests that not too far down the road, he might be able to handle calling the defensive signals...

I still stand by my point though cause he only has 1 int in his 2 year career.

Which just means he has Roberto Duran hands (hands of stone)... he's actually pretty good in coverage, in spite of having only mediocre speed, because not only is he smart, he's pretty instinctive... and as far as his run defense, he played the Rover position at Florida State, which is kind of a linebacker/safety hybrid position... he's got great size and strength for a safety...

Had he come out last year, he would probably have been a second or third round pick, but nobody in their right mind turns down a Rhodes Scholarship when it's offered... you're right that his year away from the game will scare pro scouts some, but that's why he's such an intriguing prospect in the 5th or 6th round; you might be getting a 2nd round talent for a 5th round pick...

My biggest problem with Hos picking him in the 6th is I don't think he'll last that long... I think that he'll run right around a 4.6 40 in offseason workouts, and will start to climb on most draft boards... I could even see him going in the 4th round...

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by The Realist

I've seen a lifetime's worth of 4.65 safeties who get no picks.

He's a great kid.

Good story.

Horrible football player.

Because big, physical, smart players are always horrible...

[The Realist]

Originally Posted by silverbear

Because big, physical, smart players are always horrible...

If that player is a safety who can't run, yes.

[DaBoys4Life]

SB you're full of it. I've showed you stats of a team whos TE and #1 WR have better stats and their top 3 WR's also have vetter stats. Yet you try to argue me still? Like get it over it and your self. Also look around the league at the productions of other #1 WRs Austins catch total is average. Will you may go crazy over it just realize Desean Jackson did the same thing his rookie season and that didn't prevent the Eagles from drafting a WR. Also I didn't bother reading your whole post because no matter what you're just going to argue my point. So i'm tired of playing this game with. I'm done with you good day sir.

[Chris in Arizona]

Originally Posted by DaBoys4Life

I'm done with you good day sir.

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by DaBoys4Life

SB you're full of it.

I'm full of facts, and good ol' common sense... clearly, you're not...

I've showed you stats of a team whos TE and #1 WR have better stats and their top 3 WR's also have vetter stats. Yet you try to argue me still?

That's right, you showed me ONE team... and you even admitted you couldn't find any other teams...

And that team just happens to be the number one rated passing offense in the entire league...

Yet you think that disproves my point about a TE who catches a ton of passes takes away some opportunities for the WR corps to catch more balls??

Also look around the league at the productions of other #1 WRs Austins catch total is average.

Oh damn, Miles Austin is only an average number one WR...

Hey, does that mean he's garbage??

Also I didn't bother reading your whole post because no matter what you're just going to argue my point.

Only when you're wrong...

So i'm tired of playing this game with. I'm done with you good day sir.

English translation-- I'm gettin' my butt kicked, so I'm headin' for the hills... LOL...

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by silverbear

I figured that was the case, and I hope you didn't think I was trying to insult you...




Uhhh, smart is a GOOD thing in a player, particularly in a safety... it suggests that not too far down the road, he might be able to handle calling the defensive signals...




Which just means he has Roberto Duran hands (hands of stone)... he's actually pretty good in coverage, in spite of having only mediocre speed, because not only is he smart, he's pretty instinctive... and as far as his run defense, he played the Rover position at Florida State, which is kind of a linebacker/safety hybrid position... he's got great size and strength for a safety...

[View Full Quote]Had he come out last year, he would probably have been a second or third round pick, but nobody in their right mind turns down a Rhodes Scholarship when it's offered... you're right that his year away from the game will scare pro scouts some, but that's why he's such an intriguing prospect in the 5th or 6th round; you might be getting a 2nd round talent for a 5th round pick...

My biggest problem with Hos picking him in the 6th is I don't think he'll last that long... I think that he'll run right around a 4.6 40 in offseason workouts, and will start to climb on most draft boards... I could even see him going in the 4th round...

we need playmakers in the secondary. right now we only have one in Jenkins. Rolle is not a playmaker and would be a waste imo.

[DaBoys4Life]

Originally Posted by silverbear

I'm full of facts, and good ol' common sense... clearly, you're not...



That's right, you showed me ONE team... and you even admitted you couldn't find any other teams...

And that team just happens to be the number one rated passing offense in the entire league...

Yet you think that disproves my point about a TE who catches a ton of passes takes away some opportunities for the WR corps to catch more balls??




Oh damn, Miles Austin is only an average number one WR...

Hey, does that mean he's garbage??



Only when you're wrong...



English translation-- I'm gettin' my butt kicked, so I'm headin' for the hills... LOL...

No i've showed you one team where a TE had atleast 70 catches. Then I went on to list all the teams that had a TE lead them in catches. You don't even know my points or what I'm saying so there's really no point in going on with you. Miles Austin = Pierre Garcon we need a #1.

[silverbear]

Originally Posted by DaBoys4Life

No i've showed you one team where a TE had atleast 70 catches. Then I went on to list all the teams that had a TE lead them in catches. You don't even know my points

Apparently, you're incapable of grasping mine, so let me dumb it down for you:

When a team has a TE catching as many passes as Witten does, it cuts into the CHANCES that the wide receiver corps will have... there are only so many passes to go around...

And in response to that, you came up with ONE team that has a TE who has caught that many passes, and a WR corps that has caught more than the Boys' receivers have... and that team a) has thrown the ball 50 more times than the Boys have, and b) leads the NFL in passing offense...

Here's a little reality check for you... of the 10 top receiving TEs in the NFL, here's how their numbers, combined with the top 3 WRs on their team's numbers, stack up:

Indy-- Dallas Clark 77 catches, top 3 WRs 207 catches... total, 284 catches...

Dallas-- Witten 74 catches, top 3 WRs 113 catches... total, 186 catches...

Atlanta-- Tony Gonzalez 69 catches, top 3 WRs 114 catches... total, 183 catches...

San Diego-- Antonio Gates 67 catches, top 3 WRs 97 catches... total, 164 catches...

San Fran-- Vernon Davis 63 catches, top 3 WRs 89 catches... total, 152 catches... I will grant you that those numbers would be a little better if Michael Crabtree had been there from the start, but they still wouldn't be better than the Cowboys' numbers...

Pittsburgh-- Heath Miller 61 catches, top 3 WRs 178 catches... total, 239 catches...

Tampa Bay-- Kellen Winslow 58 catches, top 3 WRs 68 catches... total, 126 catches...

Philly-- Brent Celek 56 catches, top 3 WRs 125 catches... total, 181 catches... that's right, the combined production of the Iggles' top TE and their top 3 WRs, receivers that you point to as what we should be aiming for, have actually been LESS productive than the Boys have...

Chicago-- Greg Olsen 49 catches, top 3 WRs 135 catches... total, 184 catches...

New Orleans-- Jeremy Shockey 44 catches, top 3 WRs 119 catches... total, 163 catches...

So, if you take the ten teams with the most productive TEs in the game right now, and combine the top 3 WRs on each team's production to theirs, the Boys rank 3rd on that list, behind the Colts and the Steelers... and the Colts are the top passing team in the league (and they've thrown the ball 48 more times than the Boys have, while the Steelers have thrown it 15 more times, and have at this point played one more game)...

Moral to the story-- the Boys' top 3 WRs have been nicely productive, given that their TE is good for 6 receptions a game... only two teams in the NFL with productive TEs have had better production from their top 3 WRs...

Here endeth the lesson...

or what I'm saying so there's really no point in going on with you.

Yeah, you said that in the last post... and yet, here you are, trying to hang with me...

ROTFLMAO...

[Cover 2]

Originally Posted by DaBoys4Life

The only other team from what I've seen who's TE has caught more than 70 passes is the Colts. Dallas Clark has 77 catches on the season Reggie wayne has 83. Austin Collie has 43 catches and Pierre Garcon has 40 catches. So that's a total of 166 catches and 2,245 yards and 18 TD's. Although the TD passes maybe equal with the top 3 WR's these a huge disparity between yards and catches.

This is exactly why I'm suggesting us drafting a WR early on. Our #1 WR only has 52 catches on the season while it's decent you still want more out of your #1. RW our #2 has 32 catches. I don't want to make up anything but that has to be the bottom half of catches for #2 WR's some #3 has more catches than him.

I also know that different offense schemes leads to different production values that's why teams like that Pats can have 2 1000 yards WR and team like the cardinals are on their way 2 1000 yards WR's.

[View Full Quote]So what my suggestion is to bring in a guy who can be that lynch pin go to guy that is needed to produce in the clutch and can produce in the clutch. If we get a 70-100 catch per year guy the toss in Austin production and also witten. Then you can throw in that speed guy as a #3 that can stretch the field and make plays or you can get another 70-100 catch guy then have Austin be the dude that stretches the field. Kind of like how the Cards have Fitz Bolden and Breaston.

As for teams that have the TE leading them in receptions they're five teams Cowboys 49eres Chargers Falcons and Bucs. So if we look at the teams who have been to the superbowl these past couple of years and who has won these past couple of years. I'd rather try to imitate them. Wouldn't you?

So basically Dez Bryant.

[Cover 2]

Originally Posted by Rampage

we need playmakers in the secondary. right now we only have one in Jenkins. Rolle is not a playmaker and would be a waste imo.

I don't even think he'll be good in the pro's. He just doesn't have the speed.