Think Objectively:Does Irvin deserve the HOF?

[Phoenix-Talon]

[quote]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

It's IRVIN, since he's one of your favorite personalities you should be able to get his name correct.

He's one of my favorite NFL personalities!

p.s. Your Rose comparison is nonsense, unless IRVIN was snorting coke on the sidelines or bringing hookers into the huddle it is not the same as betting on your team

It's not a comparison; they both have similar dilemas.

[jimmy40]

Originally Posted by Sifillest

now look, i love the playmaker as much as i do Emmitt and Troy.....but in my heart i do not know if he is a hall of fame caliber player....i know that to the cowboys organization he meant a hell of a lot and he cooked many a d-back in his time as well as linebackers....and he was a very complete receiver.....but the truth of the matter is....he only had one truly dominant season('95)...so im not sure....i would love to see him go into canton with troy....but what do you guys think?

Yes, Irvin deserves to be in the Hall for what he did on the field but he should have to wait a couple years for being such a off the field.

[blindzebra]

[quote=Phoenix-Talon]

He's one of my favorite NFL personalities!





It's not a comparison; they both have similar dilemas.

Just when did Irvin get a lifetime ban from the NFL?

Again, a bad comparison.

[Chief]

The sooner everyone realizes that the pro football hall of fame (I refuse to capitalize it) is joke ... an innacurate, flawed attempt at honoring the sports greats ... the better.

It's an embarrassment to the sport and to the people who love it. The voting is an annual cartoon. Might as well have Yogi Bear and :pinkpant: doing the voting. They have more credibility.

I don't give a crap which Cowboys get in anymore.

They can get up there in the piss-yellow blazers each August with sweat rolling down their foreheads and talk about what a great honor it is ... blah, blah, blah.

The sooner a meteor hits that dump, the better.

[DallasEast]

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

Listen, I'm totally for Irving being selected into the NFL Hall-of-Fame! I told you that, yet you seem to want to start unnecessary flame.

Perhaps you need to re-read my reply. Nowhere does it question your opinion of Irvin's future selection to the Hall of Fame.

"Unnecessary flame"??? Obviously, you don't know my history. Or, at least, not my history at DallasNews.com. If you had, you might have thought my reply as being quite tame. VERY tame, indeed.

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

Michael Irving is one of my favorite NFL personalities!

You had me at 'Irvin__'. You had me at 'Irvin__'.

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

What part of that are you not getting?

I don't know. Which part are you dreaming up?

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

The Only connection between Rose and Irving is the correlation that both athletes are being critically Looked at for selection into the of fame for their respective sports -- that's it! No other connection.

Not quite.

Irvin's gridiron accomplishments, which have been documented by posters on this very thread, were solid enough to have warranted first-ballot induction. While his negative, off-the-field, non-football activities, may have been (and probably was) considered--he has not done anything within the public purview to impact his election to the Hall. Let's review what I'm referring to and what you continue to harp upon...

In March 1996, Irvin was arrested for marijuana and cocaine possession. He was indicted. He plead guilty to felony cocaine possession. He was found guilty. He was sentenced to four years probation, paid a $10K fine and performed 800 hours of community service.

That's it. What he did, was punished, and paid the price for had nothing to do with football and the National Football League. Neither did the proven, completely fabricated sexual assault incident shortly afterwards nor his post-career arrest and non-indictment for drug possession had anything to do with football. Period.

Rose, , on the other hand, was investigated for six months for serious infractions within the game of pro baseball (primarily gambling) by Major League Baseball. A 225-page report on Rose's baseball infractions was handed over to the commissioner. The commissioner felt so strongly over the findings that he banned Rose for life. Two years later, MLB's board of directors unanimously voted to bar him from pro baseball's Hall of Fame for a minimum of 14 years BECAUSE of Rose's contra-activities to baseball.

Sure, the pro football selection committee may unfairly be using Irvin's non-football history to prevent his induction, but that would only continue to prove the bias slant that fans (and Cowboy fans, in particular) keep implying. However, that bias is 180 degrees in the opposite direction from what has happened to Rose. The pro baseball selectors have attempted to prevent the induction of a legendary player who directly and intentionally harmed the integrity of the game.

The end. Wait...

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

So now let's take a look at what you're saying...

What's your point?

My point is as transparent as ballerina leggings on Andy Reid. Irvin did not impair his opportunity to be elected in his first-year of eligibility. His football career more than justified the honor. Regardless, of your opinion, my opinion or anyone else's opinion, Rose's actions, which were directly related to baseball, were judged by baseball purists as being so flagrant that he was thrown out of the sport.

The real question here is, "Which part of this very simple point do you not understand?"

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

No argument! Again, what's your point!

You know what? You're special.

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

You're going off into "Left-field"

After fourteen years, Rose finally stated that he bet on baseball.

That's it.

No details explaining the seriousness of his anti-baseball activities. In effect, he has condensed a 225-page document which contributed to his banishment to one-page and one sentence: "I bet on baseball".

I may have run off into left field, but your mindset has run you past the warning track and smack dab into the wall.

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

Slightly disagree your statement here.

Say it ain't so, Joe!

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

Irving has much more than reputation going for himself; and he is still contributing to his extensive list of accomplishments (e.g., films, NFL announcers, etc)

He will eventually get in.

You must be on the board of selectors. You keep harping on non-football accomplishments necessitating induction within the Hall of Fame. Claptrap. Say, do you read Peter King?

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

Ok, I'm still agreeing with you!

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

Pete Rose controversial past = waiting to be a HOFer!
Michael Irving controversial past = waiting to be a HOFer!

:whatever:

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

Again, Michael Irving and Pete Rose both have my vote!

[DallasEast]

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

It's not a comparison; they both have similar dilemas.

com·par·i·son
noun
The act or process of comparing : the representing of one thing or person as similar to or like another

*****

Question: How can one say that there is no comparison, and, in the same breath, say that there are similarities?

[percyhoward]

Originally Posted by Chief

The sooner everyone realizes that the pro football hall of fame (I refuse to capitalize it) is joke ... an innacurate, flawed attempt at honoring the sports greats ... the better.

It's an embarrassment to the sport and to the people who love it. The voting is an annual cartoon. Might as well have Yogi Bear and :pinkpant: doing the voting. They have more credibility.

I don't give a crap which Cowboys get in anymore.

They can get up there in the piss-yellow blazers each August with sweat rolling down their foreheads and talk about what a great honor it is ... blah, blah, blah.

The sooner a meteor hits that dump, the better.

I was looking for the applauding hands, but screw it. Great post.

[Phoenix-Talon]

[quote]

Originally Posted by DallasEast

com·par·i·son noun
The act or process of comparing : the representing of one thing or person as similar to or like another*****

Question: How can one say that there is no comparison, and, in the same breath, say that there are similarities?

Answer: You're right -- I loose this argument.

BTW: Great empirical break down to shove this one down my throat. Ouch!

[DallasEast]

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

Answer: You're right -- I loose this argument.

BTW: Great empirical break down to shove this one down my throat. Ouch!

'Empirical', huh? Riiiiight...

[Phoenix-Talon]

[quote]

Originally Posted by DallasEast

here's a summary of your comments ...

Irvin ... was arrested for marijuana and cocaine possession.
proven, completely fabricated sexual assault incident
post-career arrest and non-indictment for drug possession had anything to do with football. Period.

Again, I'm in favor of Irvin's induction into the HOF but, I believe you're minimizing Irvin's crimes. Anytime an NFL super star is involved in any criminal activitiy (especially if they are a probowler at superstar level), they become ambassadors or the sport they play, and subjected to srutiny. I believe Irvin started describing how he used to get high on national Television -- uncertain of the tv show he appeared on.

So, I don't think it's going to be an easy sell, but you're right, I'm not on the pro football selection committee board; if I were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Silverstar]

Originally Posted by DallasEast

I wonder what type of numbers Irvin would've put up IF Dallas had been a true passing team during his career.

EXACTLY!!!


This is what most people don't understand. You have to remember that Emmitt and the running game, was the focus of the Cowboy offense in the 90's. In the redzone it was always Emmitt, Emmitt and how about a little more Emmitt!

By the end of the 1999 season, Emmitt had already scored 135 TD's!

So, who suffered in terms of TD's, yardage, passes and catches etc???

You guessed it...Aikman, Irvin and even Novacek. When you have a workhorse like Emmitt, you just hand him the ball and take a backseat. However, will this hurt Irvin and Aikman's chances of getting inducted into the HOF?


It shouldn't....but these ********** sportwriters will look for any excuse to keep Cowboy players out.

[DallasEast]

Originally Posted by Phoenix-Talon

Again, I'm in favor of Irvin's induction into the HOF but, I believe you're minimizing Irvin's crimes. Anytime an NFL super star is involved in any criminal activitiy (especially if they are a probowler at superstar level), they become ambassadors or the sport they play, and subjected to srutiny. I believe Irvin started describing how he used to get high on national Television -- uncertain of the tv show he appeared on.

So, I don't think it's going to be an easy sell, but you're right, I'm not on the pro football selection committee board; if I were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Question: How can I minimize that which I have detailed in its entirety? Did I leave out any details? Once again, for effect, Irvin did not perpetrate anything which could be deemed harmful to pro football by his peers, the media and/or its fans.

JMO, but I believe that anyone, who harps on an eligible Pro Football Hall of Fame inductee's non sports-related/self-damaging activities as being a contributing factor in their induction, is as biased as that of certain members of the selection committee itself. Still, I am glad that you've finally dismissed the 'Rose correlation'.

[bobbie brewskie]

3-0 until Irvin goes down in Philly..we were back on track...