Do we already have enough speed at WR? - Page 8 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

**ABQCOWBOY** · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDSmith

Then tell me why he never outran anyone. If you are asserting that he was fast, give me ONE SINGLE example of him using that speed to simply blow by a defensive back and outrace him. Not when the CB bites hard on play action, but the type of play that speed makes - where you simply outrun your guy. The fact is that you can't give an example of that happening, because it NEVER did in his career. Where was this great speed? Why didn't he outrun DBs rather than outjump them? Why was he caught by the Niners' DBs even though he had a 15 yard head start? You are the one saying he was a track guy and that he was a burner, so YOU prove it. Give me some of his track times. And I never said he had no speed, I said he wasn't fast. He had average speed, and was hardly the type of guy you are claiming we need.

First of all, I never said he was the type of guy we need. You said we had him and that was enough. Basically, you said they were all slow. I said two things. One, I don't think they were all slow and two, that was a timing offense. You can't look at the guys on that offense and come to the conclusion that it will work for this offense. That was a timing offense. Speed is not the key thing in that offense. Timing and the ability for WRs to run disciplined routes with a QB who has pinpoint accuracy was. That is not this offense. Let me say this again. We don't run that offense. To come to the conclusion that what was good for them is good for us is in error.

As far as the 49 DBs, you have to look at the angles and who was actually chasing him. Lots of things. I'm not saying he was world class speed. I'm saying he was not slow. That is my opinion on that. If you have something that you would like to stress as your opinion, then fine. Your welcome to do so. If you declairing something as fact, support it.

Here is profile info on Harper:

Alvin Harper
#82 | Wide Receiver | Dallas Cowboys | Roster
Profile | Statistics | Career Notes
Career Notes

1994
Led the NFL with a 24.9 yard per reception average ... Led Cowboys with eight TD receptions ... Named NFC Offensive Player of the Week vs. Cincinnati on Nov. 30 with six receptions for 125 yards and one TD.

1993
21.6 yards per reception average was second in the NFL and led NFC ... Completed a 46-yard pass to Michael Irvin vs. the New York Giants on Nov. 7.

1992
Had an INT vs. Denver on Dec. 6 as he saw occasional late-game action at defensive back ... 70-yard TD reception sealed 30-20 Dallas victory over San Francisco in the NFC Championship Game.

1991
Drafted by the Dallas Cowboys in the first round (12th overall) in the NFL Draft ... Scored first NFL TD on a 34-yard reception vs. Washington on Nov. 24 ... Averaged 20.6 yards per reception.

Height: 6-4
Weight: 218 lbs.
Born: July 6, 1968
College: Tennessee
Drafted: Selected by the Dallas Cowboys in the first round (12th pick overall) of the 1991 NFL Draft.
Acquired: Signed by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as a free agent on March 8, 1995.

College
Two-time All-Southeastern Conference pick, Harper set a school mark for TD receptions in a season with eight in 1990 and tied the career TD catch record held by Tim McGee of 16 ... He finished his career fifth on the Volunteers' all-time receiving list with 102 catches ... In his first collegiate start he caught a team-record 12 passes against Washington State in 1988 ... Against Auburn his senior year, Harper made an 82-yard TD grab, third-longest in school history.

Personal
All-American at Frostproof High School ... Set the Florida high jump record ... Degree in psychology ... Won the high jump title at the 1989 SEC Indoor Meet ... Also competed in the 400-meter dash and anchored the 4x100 and the 4x400-meter relay teams.

In 93 he averaged 21.6 YPC. In 94 he averaged 24.9. He has had TD receptions of 80 and 90 so clearly, he has beaten somebody deep. I acknowledge the fact that after 10 years plus, I don't recall exactly who it was but it clearly happened.

In the final analysis, this little back and forth on Harper is really not the point. There is no substitution for a quality WR with speed. You may contend that quickness, route running, the ability to adjust, to catch well and desire are more important but what does that have to do with our offense? As I pointed out earlier, we have two guys who can do all those things. The thing I don't believe we have is a WR with speed that makes the defense respect the quick strike. We need that.

Tell me how I'm wrong.

Banned_n_austin · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Tell me how I'm wrong.

Glenn and Keyshawn combined put up more yards recieving than Ismail and Galloway?

blindzebra · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

First of all, I never said he was the type of guy we need. You said we had him and that was enough. Basically, you said they were all slow. I said two things. One, I don't think they were all slow and two, that was a timing offense. You can't look at the guys on that offense and come to the conclusion that it will work for this offense. That was a timing offense. Speed is not the key thing in that offense. Timing and the ability for WRs to run disciplined routes with a QB who has pinpoint accuracy was. That is not this offense. Let me say this again. We don't run that offense. To come to the conclusion that what was good for them is good for us is in error.

[View Full Quote]

That catch in the 92 NFC championship was not for a TD.

JDSmith · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

In the final analysis, this little back and forth on Harper is really not the point. There is no substitution for a quality WR with speed. You may contend that quickness, route running, the ability to adjust, to catch well and desire are more important but what does that have to do with our offense? As I pointed out earlier, we have two guys who can do all those things. The thing I don't believe we have is a WR with speed that makes the defense respect the quick strike. We need that.

Tell me how I'm wrong.

IMO you are wrong to believe that we need more speed. Yes it would be nice to have a quality WR with burner speed, but it's not remotely a need. We'll complete more long passes this year than we have in ages, and it won't be due to any exceptional speed. It will be because teams will respect our running game and bite on play action (the same way Harper made the majority of his long receptions). We have plenty of guys who can run, the only guy I'd say we have who's slow is Key. Terry Glenn has the speed and the quickness to turn a quick strike into a big play, provided the QB puts the ball where it needs to be. Quincy Morgan, for all his flaws, can run. Copper and Crayton are both at least adequately fast.

It's not as if we have a bunch of slugs out there. Keyshawn is the only one who really can't run the way you expect an NFL receiver to run. And he's been successful running that slowly for ages.

Banned_n_austin · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDSmith

IMO you are wrong to believe that we need more speed. Yes it would be nice to have a quality WR with burner speed, but it's not remotely a need. We'll complete more long passes this year than we have in ages, and it won't be due to any exceptional speed. It will be because teams will respect our running game and bite on play action (the same way Harper made the majority of his long receptions). We have plenty of guys who can run, the only guy I'd say we have who's slow is Key. Terry Glenn has the speed and the quickness to turn a quick strike into a big play, provided the QB puts the ball where it needs to be. Quincy Morgan, for all his flaws, can run. Copper and Crayton are both at least adequately fast.

It's not as if we have a bunch of slugs out there. Keyshawn is the only one who really can't run the way you expect an NFL receiver to run. And he's been successful running that slowly for ages.

I agree.

ravidubey · 06-10-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDSmith

IMO you are wrong to believe that we need more speed. Yes it would be nice to have a quality WR with burner speed, but it's not remotely a need. We'll complete more long passes this year than we have in ages, and it won't be due to any exceptional speed. It will be because teams will respect our running game and bite on play action (the same way Harper made the majority of his long receptions). We have plenty of guys who can run, the only guy I'd say we have who's slow is Key. Terry Glenn has the speed and the quickness to turn a quick strike into a big play, provided the QB puts the ball where it needs to be. Quincy Morgan, for all his flaws, can run. Copper and Crayton are both at least adequately fast.

It's not as if we have a bunch of slugs out there. Keyshawn is the only one who really can't run the way you expect an NFL receiver to run. And he's been successful running that slowly for ages.

Keyshawn plays WR like Rodney Hampton played running back-- never met a defender he didn't like to let hit him. By week 4 he'll be banged up and a shell of what he was in week 1. This happens to WR's in their 30's, especially injury-prone guys like Terry Glenn.

If you could guarantee that these guys stayed healthy the whole year, then the Cowboys are contenders. The thing is everyone knows the Cowboys receivers are either breaking down or are already broken and have no chance of lasting the whole season.

Parcells is betting they will stay healthy this year because he feels he had little other choice. IMO it was wrong not to try for Plaxico Burress because he is young, big, strong, fast, and productive-- regardless of how much the Steelers tried to "secretly" bad mouth him to reduce his market value.

ThEpLyMaKeR88 · 06-10-2005

if they get banged up we still have crayton and cooper

**ABQCOWBOY** · 06-10-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banned_n_austin

Glenn and Keyshawn combined put up more yards recieving than Ismail and Galloway?

What's your point?

**ABQCOWBOY** · 06-10-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDSmith

IMO you are wrong to believe that we need more speed. Yes it would be nice to have a quality WR with burner speed, but it's not remotely a need. We'll complete more long passes this year than we have in ages, and it won't be due to any exceptional speed. It will be because teams will respect our running game and bite on play action (the same way Harper made the majority of his long receptions). We have plenty of guys who can run, the only guy I'd say we have who's slow is Key. Terry Glenn has the speed and the quickness to turn a quick strike into a big play, provided the QB puts the ball where it needs to be. Quincy Morgan, for all his flaws, can run. Copper and Crayton are both at least adequately fast.

It's not as if we have a bunch of slugs out there. Keyshawn is the only one who really can't run the way you expect an NFL receiver to run. And he's been successful running that slowly for ages.

I understand. I don't agree with your opinion on not needing a speed WR but that's fine. The point here is not if we have guys who will or can catch balls. The point I'm trying to make is that a skilled speed receiver completes our offense. If assuming we can protect the QB, the only piece I believe were missing to complete our offense is speed at WR. The point was never a question of can Key and Glenn have success. I never said that we had a bunch of slow guys. I said we had nobody with real speed to stretch the field. I stand by that statement. It's not a crime to point this out, just like it's not a crime to disagree with the point. It is a matter of opinion. You don't agree with mine. Also doesn't make it wrong.

I've gone out of my way to point out that Key doesn't need to be fast. His job is as a #1 possesion receiver. No secret there. You may point to Glenn or Key and say there enough but I do not agree with that. I have also pointed out that one of the other three may eventually turn into the speed guy we need but at this point, that's not proven. This too is a true statement.

It is OK to see something from a different point of view but I think I can say that nothing I've said to this point is not factual. It just so happens that we don't agree on speed at WR. Still in all, speed is coveted by vertually every personel guy in the NFL. Everybody wants skilled WRs with speed. There has to be something to it.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 06-10-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindzebra

That catch in the 92 NFC championship was not for a TD.

He also couldn't run even though he anchored the 4x100 and the 4x400 at Tennessee.

Yeah, OK.