Mayock's updated position rankings

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by RamziD

I have a feeling he will be rated by many as 2nd best and will go before we pick in the 3rd. I just think there's a big gap between Konz/Blake and Jones, Brewster, Molk, etc. Those 2 are starting-quality centers and we currently don't have a starting OC on our roster.

I guess I tend to think there are two big gaps. One between Konz and Blake, and then another (maybe) after Blake. So I would not want to burn our 2nd rounder on what I feel is a 3rd rounder. I think we are in psotion to get ogg value with our 2nd this year.
It may turn out that deserves a 2nd round grade, then my point is moot.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by FootballCorner

I think the idea of Poe going top 20 is a little crazy and felt that way when he said it. I have him as my top 3-4 NT guy and top DT, but that is based on where he is in 2-3 seasons, not today. Cox is pretty close, but I think he is more of a 4-3 guy. Not sure I would take either guy in the top 20.

[View Full Quote]The thing with Poe that many discredit, the coaching staff at Memphis was fired this past season, late November, early December. The head coach was a 1st time HC that was known for recruiting. He was there 3 seasons, all of Poe's tenure. All the coaches under him were trending down in their careers, so I really question how much he was taught. Poe worked at Athletes' Performance pre-combine and was there with Da'John Harris of USC. In an interview, he stated that Harris had taught him several techniques for playing different styles that he had never seen before. I found that statement a little troubling. I mean, in a few weeks Harris, a player, is teaching him stuff his college DL coach missed in 3 seasons.

The things I like about Poe, thick legs, big backside, squatty. He anchors well, does not often get blown back, plays on the other side of the line a lot. He shows the ability to split the double team, does not do it often enough, but needs better hand play. Real raw. Has to get with a DL coach, maybe a veteran unit, that will push him. He has great character, hard worker. He played on a defense really devoid of talent. Some games were hard to watch. Arkansas State....played 85 snaps. Eight five snaps. Most defenses play 60 a game. Most NTs play 40. They worked the outside, ran the edges, forced him to move, went away from him. Just had their way with the rest of the defense. Against Miss State, they doubled him the early part of the game. Cut him. Locked him up with a single blocker and ear holed him. They just roughed him up early. Gave him extra attention. They threw the edges, ran off tackle. By the later part of the first half, they had wore him out. I think they ran for over 300 yards, threw for 300 more. SMU did the same thing, quick hitters to the WRs and ran off tackle. Forced him to run. Used the OL to dig at him, chipped him, hit him. Just nicked at him all game while they worked the edges.

In all that, he went as hard late in most games as he did early. Who does that? You are getting beaten all over the field. The defense is not putting up much of a fight and you have been getting the business, yet you keep coming. Crazy.

I may be completely off base on this one and it happens to everyone, but I think the kid simply loves football. He is an elite athlete. He flashes those great abilities, especially great power. He is just unrefined and needs a ton of technique work. The thing is, IF the light comes on for this guy, his upside is tremendous. He has everything you want in a DT. He just has to harness it and put it together. If he can't, he is a colossal bust. If he can, he will make some GM look like a genius. I do not see much middle ground here. He either gets it or he is doing something else in 5 seasons.

Poe will undoubtedly go top 20.

Even well-trained guys 350+ seldom look great on tape versus 250 pound guys. They don't have the motor or stamina to go all out for an entire game and get double-teamed to prevent their biggest advantage.

Vince Wilfolk is the last really big guy I can think of who put up good stats. And he was a freak playing with other NFL defensive talent that couldn't consistently get double-teamed.

NFL teams have to make a decision on Poe and will be a tough one for even experienced NFL scouts. Fans really should just shut up about the guy because we are clueless. Accurately analyzing and projecting 350 pound guys is a painfully rare skillset.

I can almost assure you the guy rated highest in this draft class for Bill Parcells would be Dontari Poe. BP uses the 'rare human theory' and favors big guys with even a modicum of athleticism over everything.

[btcutter]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Poe will undoubtedly go top 20.

Even well-trained guys 350+ seldom look great on tape versus 250 pound guys. They don't have the motor or stamina to go all out for an entire game and get double-teamed to prevent their biggest advantage.

Vince Wilfolk is the last really big guy I can think of who put up good stats. And he was a freak playing with other NFL defensive talent that couldn't consistently get double-teamed.

NFL teams have to make a decision on Poe and will be a tough one for even experienced NFL scouts. Fans really should just shut up about the guy because we are clueless. Accurately analyzing and projecting 350 pound guys is a painfully rare skillset.

I can almost assure you the guy rated highest in this draft class for Bill Parcells would be Dontari Poe. BP uses the 'rare human theory' and favors big guys with even a modicum of athleticism over everything.

The same BP who wanted to draft Marcus Spear at 11 instead of Ware and picked Al Johnson, Peterman and loser OL that have set our OL back 5 yrs? Same old BP?
Bill is an excellent coach when he was younger but I am not certain he's the authority as a talent evaluator.

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by btcutter

The same BP who wanted to draft Marcus Spear at 11 instead of Ware and picked Al Johnson, Peterman and loser OL that have set our OL back 5 yrs? Same old BP?
Bill is an excellent coach when he was younger but I am not certain he's the authority as a talent evaluator.

and of course you ignore all the others- like 3 times as many- that he hit on over the years. Now with Dallas I think that it takes time to get a scouting staff going in the right direction. BP reorganized that as one of the first things he did here; but that takes a few years to bear fruit.

And frankly just how good were the boys doing picking ANYONE before BP got here?

[visionary]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Poe will undoubtedly go top 20.

Even well-trained guys 350+ seldom look great on tape versus 250 pound guys. They don't have the motor or stamina to go all out for an entire game and get double-teamed to prevent their biggest advantage.

Vince Wilfolk is the last really big guy I can think of who put up good stats. And he was a freak playing with other NFL defensive talent that couldn't consistently get double-teamed.

NFL teams have to make a decision on Poe and will be a tough one for even experienced NFL scouts. Fans really should just shut up about the guy because we are clueless. Accurately analyzing and projecting 350 pound guys is a painfully rare skillset.

I can almost assure you the guy rated highest in this draft class for Bill Parcells would be Dontari Poe. BP uses the 'rare human theory' and favors big guys with even a modicum of athleticism over everything.

excellent post

i have said this before, the question with poe is not his talent, it is his work ethic/desire
if the scouts/front office can get a good handle of that aspect and feel that will not be an issue, he should be the pick at 14 hands down

no other defensive player will impact our defense more than a motivated athletic freak at NT who can consistently collapse the pocket stop the run and prevent the QB from stepping up

[fanfromvirginia]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Poe will undoubtedly go top 20.

Even well-trained guys 350+ seldom look great on tape versus 250 pound guys. They don't have the motor or stamina to go all out for an entire game and get double-teamed to prevent their biggest advantage.

Vince Wilfolk is the last really big guy I can think of who put up good stats. And he was a freak playing with other NFL defensive talent that couldn't consistently get double-teamed.

NFL teams have to make a decision on Poe and will be a tough one for even experienced NFL scouts. Fans really should just shut up about the guy because we are clueless. Accurately analyzing and projecting 350 pound guys is a painfully rare skillset.

I can almost assure you the guy rated highest in this draft class for Bill Parcells would be Dontari Poe. BP uses the 'rare human theory' and favors big guys with even a modicum of athleticism over everything.

I betcha Ryan loves Poe. Besides salivating over the idea of moving him up and down the line Ryan no doubt views himself (rightly or wrongly) as a world class mentor, which Poe by most accounts is going to need.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by btcutter

The same BP who wanted to draft Marcus Spear at 11 instead of Ware and picked Al Johnson, Peterman and loser OL that have set our OL back 5 yrs? Same old BP?
Bill is an excellent coach when he was younger but I am not certain he's the authority as a talent evaluator.

Not at all arguing he is correct merely noting their will be NFL minds who rate Poe highly after that line of thinking.

I can't accurately grade Poe and don't think anyone on this board can. Not based on what we have seen thus far. He was clearly a dominant and rare athlete at the combine but also had marginal game impact for Memphis that basically comprised of eating double-teams.

[bpfred]

Originally Posted by btcutter

The same BP who wanted to draft Marcus Spear at 11 instead of Ware and picked Al Johnson, Peterman and loser OL that have set our OL back 5 yrs? Same old BP?
Bill is an excellent coach when he was younger but I am not certain he's the authority as a talent evaluator.

Spears has tons of talent, and has been a huge underachiever-something that never really gets mentioned on this board. Had Parcells been his head coach, I'm not at all sure he would have achieved at the level he has...

Al Johnson was solid until microfracture surgery. He was never the same after. Serious knee injuries are hard to predict, particularly in people that don't have a history of having them.

How many years has Peterman started in Detroit?

Yeah, same old BP. I don't agree with all the crap that gets heaped on BP on this board. The dude was old, arrogant, condescending, and very possibly the best coach/team builder this league has ever seen. His health was giving out, otherwise, IMO, he would have had an excellent chance to get his Superbowl ring in Dallas. And I am certain: he WAS a great talent evaluator.

[btcutter]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

and of course you ignore all the others- like 3 times as many- that he hit on over the years. Now with Dallas I think that it takes time to get a scouting staff going in the right direction. BP reorganized that as one of the first things he did here; but that takes a few years to bear fruit.

And frankly just how good were the boys doing picking ANYONE before BP got here?

Boys was awful when Jones was in charge with pseudo figurehead headcoaches. Boys was pretty good when the two JJ's were TOGETHER.

I am just pointing out that BP merely brought the Cowboys back up to probably the NFL average and it was because this team was in such disarray before he got here.

Again, BP was a great coach but looking at the day he actually won championships someone else was running the front office and draft.