Fans disconnected from front office thinking.

[Leadbelly]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

Considering those other teams are electing our NT to the Pro Bowl, evidently they think we're doing it right.

I guess you believe you know more about what it takes to play in the 3-4 than Wade Phillips and Rob Ryan. I'm guessing it's nowhere close.

Right...Wade Phillips and Rob Ryan are never wrong. Rob Ryan thought Shaun Rogers was a gift from God while he was in Cleveland.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...talks_abo.html

In any case, your point's irrelevant. It doesn't matter if they know more than I do about the 3-4. Surely they do. My post doesn't say I know more. It says Defensive Coordinators for Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, New England, NY Jets, etc know more. Considering how often they succeed while Lazy River and Fat Lebowski fail, they just might be on to something.

[SMCowboy]

Originally Posted by Leadbelly

Right...Wade Phillips and Rob Ryan are never wrong. Rob Ryan thought Shaun Rogers was a gift from God while he was in Cleveland.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...talks_abo.html

In any case, your point's irrelevant. It doesn't matter if they know more than I do about the 3-4. Surely they do. My post doesn't say I know more. It says Defensive Coordinators for Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, New England, NY Jets, etc know more. Considering how often they succeed while Lazy River and Fat Lebowski fail, they just might be on to something.

Did you consider that maybe just maybe the reason that those other teams don't use "Jay Ratiff" types as their NT, is because they can't find guys his size that can hold up as a 3-4 NT?

It isn't like Rob Ryan, and Wade Phillips have always gone against "conventional wisdom" and always looked for small 3-4 NT's. All other places they have used big plodding NT's. And all have even talked about moving Ratiff to DE, his "correct" position early. Then they start coaching and working with him, and realize that NT his his "correct" position.

[ThreeandOut]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

One of these days maybe the folks that pimp for the 330+lb NT will get the message...


But they probably won't.

People that want this type of player need to realize 1) this is a passing league and 2) we play in a dome on a fast surface. Big run-stuffing, two downed playing NT's may be the next position on the endangered species list in this league.

[ghst187]

Originally Posted by jswalker1981

Could it be that Rob Ryan knows more about his defense than any of us do?

Probably, but 2009 is solid evidence that the consensus here are better at drafting than our front office in many cases

[Chuck 54]

I've heard several say that Ratliff is not a consideration at DE...that they've tried that in practice, and his skill set doesn't fit. He's a better NT, and if replaced there, he'd actually be without a position.

[TheCount]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

I'll break it down for you simply. Ratliff is a Pro Bowl nosetackle because he has incredible quickness and explosion off the ball, and is able to gain an advantage on slow footed guards and centers. People play guard and center because they're too slow to play tackle. Moving Ratliff out to DE makes him play against quicker footed DEs, which means you've just neutralized our best interior lineman and made him a JAG for the sake of plugging in a worthless fat tub of goo who also can't put any pressure on the QB. Congrats, you've somehow managed to make a bad pass rushing defensive line even worse. High five.

This is one of the favorite arguments of those against moving Ratliff. The idea that you have to replace him with a contestant from The Biggest Loser.

Likewise, the idea that Ratliff is only a good player when he's got the athletic advantage seems more like an insult than praise. You are essentially saying he's got no skill, just athletisim.

[fanfromvirginia]

You are right: a lot of fans are disconnected from front office thinking, which has over the last few drafts resulted in the acquisition of Lee and Bryant and Murray and Smith and Claiborne and now some guy most of us had never heard of who appears ready to contribute at a position of need with a wicked high ceiling to boot.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by ghst187

Probably, but 2009 is solid evidence that the consensus here are better at drafting than our front office in many cases

fans crying because we didn't draft anyone in the top 50 names isn't exactly insight. the majority were thrilled with the rw11 trade when it happened and mad come draft day. typical whiny sniveling revisionists.

fans are stupid. media aren't far behind. it is what it is.

i am sure dallas would love casey hampton, vince wilfork or other big bodies that some 3-4 teams have but those are rare physical beings. not every guy who weighs 330 is gonna be those dudes which is what fans fail to understand.

dallas has drafted big DL before and they couldn't even get on the field.

the only guys with athleticism who played DL and were 320+ were Brockers and Poe. That's why they both went about 2 rounds before their production would indicate they should have. You overpay for guys that big period.

I'd welcome Alameda or another big DT but truth is the guy plays 1 down here.

[InmanRoshi]

Originally Posted by TheCount

Likewise, the idea that Ratliff is only a good player when he's got the athletic advantage seems more like an insult than praise. You are essentially saying he's got no skill, just athletisim.

No more of an "insult" than saying Aaron Hernandez is a great F Tight end but wouldn't be as effective playing a lot of a Y Tight End. It's the truth and no way an insult to say he's merely a great F Tight End. Of course the retards around here would probably say "Move teh Hernandez to teh WRz cuz hez smallerz then most TEz, and other teamz must knowz somethingz.."

And considering the only qualifier fans make for a player being capaple of being "teh truez nosetacklez" is their listed weight, not even their particular skillset, I would have to assume anyone exceptionally fat would automatically fit their definition of "teh truez noestacklez". I've seen it with Shaun Rodgers, who is a 1 gap penetrator but gets qualified as a "teh true noestaklez" around here because he's exceptionally blubbery. And Ta'amu does not have the game of a "true noseguard" other than he's exceptonally fat.

[nathanlt]

Originally Posted by TheCount

This is one of the favorite arguments of those against moving Ratliff. The idea that you have to replace him with a contestant from The Biggest Loser.

Likewise, the idea that Ratliff is only a good player when he's got the athletic advantage seems more like an insult than praise. You are essentially saying he's got no skill, just athletisim.

I'm saying that Ratliff wears down at the end of the season. We need a good NT.

Maybe this year's crop doesn't have a good NT in it, but Dallas could use one, for sure!

[InmanRoshi]

Originally Posted by Leadbelly

Right...Wade Phillips and Rob Ryan are never wrong. Rob Ryan thought Shaun Rogers was a gift from God while he was in Cleveland.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...talks_abo.html

In any case, your point's irrelevant. It doesn't matter if they know more than I do about the 3-4. Surely they do. My post doesn't say I know more. It says Defensive Coordinators for Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, New England, NY Jets, etc know more. Considering how often they succeed while Lazy River and Fat Lebowski fail, they just might be on to something.

I'm not sure how much you follow football, but the Ryan Bros. are well known for blowing sunshine in the media out of all their players. However, if you watch their actions they tell the real story, and the actions of Rob Ryan show he was never a fan ... he immediately benched Rogers for Ahytba Rubin and made Rogers a part time situational pass rusher coming off the bench, then made absolutely no effort to bring him to Dallas once he hit the open market and brought in Kenyon Coleman instead.

[ghst187]

Originally Posted by jterrell

fans crying because we didn't draft anyone in the top 50 names isn't exactly insight. the majority were thrilled with the rw11 trade when it happened and mad come draft day. typical whiny sniveling revisionists.

fans are stupid. media aren't far behind. it is what it is.

i am sure dallas would love casey hampton, vince wilfork or other big bodies that some 3-4 teams have but those are rare physical beings. not every guy who weighs 330 is gonna be those dudes which is what fans fail to understand.

dallas has drafted big DL before and they couldn't even get on the field.

the only guys with athleticism who played DL and were 320+ were Brockers and Poe. That's why they both went about 2 rounds before their production would indicate they should have. You overpay for guys that big period.

I'd welcome Alameda or another big DT but truth is the guy plays 1 down here.

I see what you're saying but at the same time the big names are the big names usually for a reason and it was usually (exclusions like Poe exist and other combine wonders) because they were big time ballers in major college programs. Sure there are a lot of busts from these types but the majority of the guys who pan out also came from major college programs.

I think most, including myself, were cool with the RW trade at the time. I think most of us, especially myself, we furious that every pick in 2009 was spent on a project boom or bust type pick. Some teams can afford to do that, sometimes you have to here or there, otherwise who'd ever find a Larry Allen or Tony Romo, but you can't sacrifice the future and use 12 or 13 picks all on total project players. You either trade up for a few quality guys and use the rest on project players and ST'ers or you parlay some into better picks the next draft. We have zero starters from 13 picks with most some not even in the NFL now. 7 picks and next to no contribution is one thing, 13 is another....it takes bad drafting to a new level and set us back years. In fact, I'm not even sure that had we moved up just a few picks in the second for our intended target, C Unger, that we don't win one more game this past season or two and one game was the difference between us making the playoffs and the NYG's not. Sadly, most board posters here recognized this back in 2009 and were going "***?!?" Turns out we were right. So to make blanket statements like "fans are stupid" may apply broadly, but certainly not to a lot of them, esp a lot of fans here. In fact, there are some posters here I think would do great in the real draft war room. Just because some people get paid to do a job doesn't mean they're the absolute best at it....see Mel Kiper, Mayock, analysts Warren Sapp and Shannon Sharpe....they're nozzles that are marginal at their current jobs.

[kmd24]

I don't understand the argument against Ratliff at nose. We had no trouble stopping the run last year, and that was with Brent hurt for 4-5 games and Rat playing more snaps than he'll usually have to.

[SilverStarCowboy]

Though I am an outspoken proponent of NT, they Drafted the guy with the highest ceiling on the board.

[TheCount]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

No more of an "insult" than saying Aaron Hernandez is a great F Tight end but wouldn't be as effective playing a lot of a Y Tight End. It's the truth and no way an insult to say he's merely a great F Tight End. Of course the retards around here would probably say "Move teh Hernandez to teh WRz cuz hez smallerz then most TEz, and other teamz must knowz somethingz.."

And considering the only qualifier fans make for a player being capaple of being "teh truez nosetacklez" is their listed weight, not even their particular skillset, I would have to assume anyone exceptionally fat would automatically fit their definition of "teh truez noestacklez". I've seen it with Shaun Rodgers, who is a 1 gap penetrator but gets qualified as a "teh true noestaklez" around here because he's exceptionally blubbery. And Ta'amu does not have the game of a "true noseguard" other than he's exceptonally fat.

Yes, calling people with a differing opinion "retards" is a great way to explain that you feel differently.