DC.com: Nagy Reportedly Claimed Off Waivers By Detroit Lions - Page 6 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

jnday · 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

I continue to be amazed at people that think all late round picks and UDFAs are going to get better.

90% of them do not.

To rely on them to build your O line is moronic at best.

Dallas got lucky with Austin and Romo, so many of the fans think you can build a team out of undrafted free agents. Jerry is even believes it and he is starting to depend on it a little too much.

igtmfo · 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedkilz88

No that is not the reason. They wanted the roster spot and every team does the same thing. So far only two players have been poached in this way that I know of.

Hey speedkilz, I like your intelligence on these boards. But I don't get your response here.

You get 90 roster spots now, an increased 80 spots in a week or two after cuts due to the new CBA, at least this preseason. The last cuts used to be maybe 70 or something?

You are telling me that if you have a guy who started four games for us, that you want to stash on IR, with 90 roster spots, that you expose him to waivers, just to maybe sign some spare that comes up in a week when rosters go to 80? The players available in a week will be spares too. It's one freaking roster spot we're talking about!!!

It must not be about talent, but it must be about injury, or about philosophy as the wise poster above said (going for 320 lb. guys not 295 on the line) ...

The high-bonus recently signed UDFAs on the team now at OL: Adcock, Gunn, Adams, Dever, Novikoff. None of these guys have shown any glimmer of being a Kowalski like this time last year. Maybe one of those guys will wind up having to be a Kowalski ...

speedkilz88 · 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by igtmfo

Hey speedkilz, I like your intelligence on these boards. But I don't get your response here.

You get 90 roster spots now, an increased 80 spots in a week or two after cuts due to the new CBA, at least this preseason. The last cuts used to be maybe 70 or something?

You are telling me that if you have a guy who started four games for us, that you want to stash on IR, with 90 roster spots, that you expose him to waivers, just to maybe sign some spare that comes up in a week when rosters go to 80? The players available in a week will be spares too. It's one freaking roster spot we're talking about!!!

It must not be about talent, but it must be about injury, or about philosophy as the wise poster above said (going for 320 lb. guys not 295 on the line) ...

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If all the other teams didn't do it you would have a point. The Cowboys have several guys that haven't been practicing so they felt they needed the roster spot.

jnday · 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep_Freeze

Your just making excuses here.

Obviously someone wanted the guy that some thought was just a loser who should be bagging groceries. Do you not see a team is going to pay for a year of him doing nothing??

It should be obvious.

Yeah, he was a Carl Nicks clone. I'm sure the Lions are pumped. They can wait a couple of weeks and sign two dozen more just like him.

Deep_Freeze · 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnday

Yeah, he was a Carl Nicks clone. I'm sure the Lions are pumped. They can wait a couple of weeks and sign two dozen more just like him.

And now with the outlandish claims.....noone said he is Carl Nicks. He was a developmental prospect that we drafted and gave away for nothing.

And by the way, noone is trying to build a team with undrafted FAs, but apparently its ok to have one as our starting safety, QB, and WR. Teams are built through the draft, and since we had drafted 3 offensive linemen the previous year, this year we went more with defense (which I assume your still hung up on). Now we give away one of those OL for basically nothing.

Thats the issue at hand, and everything else you bring up is just to sidestep that issue. If you are so much for us to develop an offensive line, I don't understand why you would be ok with it in the first place, cause even if you didn't like Nagy its still one more guy we could develop in the future.

Seems like you just want to complain about our present situation without looking at how to fix it or the future we are trying to develop there.

jnday · 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep_Freeze

And now with the outlandish claims.....noone said he is Carl Nicks. He was a developmental prospect that we drafted and gave away for nothing.

And by the way, noone is trying to build a team with undrafted FAs, but apparently its ok to have one as our starting safety, QB, and WR. Teams are built through the draft, and since we had drafted 3 offensive linemen the previous year, this year we went more with defense (which I assume your still hung up on). Now we give away one of those OL for basically nothing.

Thats the issue at hand, and everything else you bring up is just to sidestep that issue. If you are so much for us to develop an offensive line, I don't understand why you would be ok with it in the first place, cause even if you didn't like Nagy its still one more guy we could develop in the future.

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No, I have stated how to fix the problem time and time again. As for Nagy, he is what he is. There are plenty of these guys out there. You can develop him ten years and the result will be the same. It was not a great loss for the team or the line. If it was, he wouldn't have been waived to begin with. You seem to struggle with the ideal that a certain level of talent would help in development. Linemen must be the only position on the team that time fixes everything, or so I'm told. My point of view is that if time is going to be spent on development, a player should have a certain amount of talent. Dallas is starting off on the low end of the talent pool and hoping that they get lucky. This problem didn't start this year and it is not going to be fixed this year. If the present trend continues, it may not get fixed.

Deep_Freeze · 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnday

No, I have stated how to fix the problem time and time again. As for Nagy, he is what he is. There are plenty of these guys out there. You can develop him ten years and the result will be the same. It was not a great loss for the team or the line. If it was, he wouldn't have been waived to begin with. You seem to struggle with the ideal that a certain level of talent would help in development. Linemen must be the only position on the team that time fixes everything, or so I'm told. My point of view is that if time is going to be spent on development, a player should have a certain amount of talent. Dallas is starting off on the low end of the talent pool and hoping that they get lucky. This problem didn't start this year and it is not going to be fixed this year. If the present trend continues, it may not get fixed.

I guess the issue I have with that is how do you know what he will be or his talent level. Should we just have listened to you when we got Romo or Miles and you just knew they would be good.....or what about some of our other current guys, are you a good enough talent evaluator to just tell us which ones are a waste of our time?!?

Unless you have a crystal ball, you just don't know what he will be in the future. And for you to tell me he does or doesn't have talent in your opinion doesn't say what he will develop into in the future. Since you know all of this, tell me what you think of Church, Lissemore, Geathers, Johnson, Callaway, Brent, Hamilton, Albright, and any other young guy on this team cause apparently you need to get us out of the dark and into the light....

Nagy wasn't a world beater and could be cut in Detroit as soon as he is healthy, but the point is we don't know how much he could've contributed cause we didn't even give him that chance. We need as much help as we can get down there for the future, and if he could've contributed to that, I would've at least liked to have the option. Now, unfortunately, we don't have that option and for you to just diss it off as he has no talent anyway just doesn't make sense at all.

Mr_Bill · 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfman

I don't believe so. That's the case with practice squad players who are claimed by another team, but don't think it applies to players in the waiver wire process.

I believe the Lions will keep Nagy on their roster until after the final cut down, then place him on IR, which, in hindsight, is what we should have done. They must feel they have the roster space to do that, or they would not have made this move.

jnday · 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep_Freeze

I guess the issue I have with that is how do you know what he will be or his talent level. Should we just have listened to you when we got Romo or Miles and you just knew they would be good.....or what about some of our other current guys, are you a good enough talent evaluator to just tell us which ones are a waste of our time?!?

Unless you have a crystal ball, you just don't know what he will be in the future. And for you to tell me he does or doesn't have talent in your opinion doesn't say what he will develop into in the future. Since you know all of this, tell me what you think of Church, Lissemore, Geathers, Johnson, Callaway, Brent, Hamilton, Albright, and any other young guy on this team cause apparently you need to get us out of the dark and into the light....

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No, I don't have a crystal ball. I know a few things about the oline and olinemen and I put more value on these positions than you do. I thought Nagy was a wasted pick and didn't have the talent to upgrade this line. Dallas waived him, so he wasn't worth protecting. If he was, they would have taken the steps to do so. Seems like somebody on the coaching staff shared my views. There will be some more cuts along the line. Are you going to defend those players as well? They are short on talent as well.

jterrell · 08-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnday

No, I don't have a crystal ball. I know a few things about the oline and olinemen and I put more value on these positions than you do. I thought Nagy was a wasted pick and didn't have the talent to upgrade this line. Dallas waived him, so he wasn't worth protecting. If he was, they would have taken the steps to do so. Seems like somebody on the coaching staff shared my views. There will be some more cuts along the line. Are you going to defend those players as well? They are short on talent as well.

this post is utter rubbish.

nagy was waived with full intent of placing him on IR.
dallas had not written him off by any means.

and the last guy they waived that went to detroit has been a long-term starter.

the team took a risk and it got stung. only they know how big the risk was.

nagy was a solid ol at wisconsin who was injured and out a full season this fell to r7 in the draft. he also started games for us last year and has actually played center before.

acting like this was some move made because nagy sucks is completely moronic. if he was healthy he'd probably be starting right now. but he wasnt and we had 17 injured players so we tried to get him through waivers.

TheCount · 08-18-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jterrell

this post is utter rubbish.

nagy was waived with full intent of placing him on IR.
dallas had not written him off by any means.

and the last guy they waived that went to detroit has been a long-term starter.

the team took a risk and it got stung. only they know how big the risk was.

nagy was a solid ol at wisconsin who was injured and out a full season this fell to r7 in the draft. he also started games for us last year and has actually played center before.

acting like this was some move made because nagy sucks is completely moronic. if he was healthy he'd probably be starting right now. but he wasnt and we had 17 injured players so we tried to get him through waivers.

Took a risk and got stung? If they wanted Nagy on the roster, he'd still be on it. When they cut him, they knew full well that he might get snatched up. They cut him anyway.

They cut him because he wasn't going to be a factor this year on a team that is preaching urgency. They also know more about his ankle than anyone on this forum does.

The idea that they were "stung" because they lost a guy that wasn't going to do anything for the team this year is laughable. You think the team desperately needs to hang onto a guy for 3 years, for what? To play musical chairs at guard and center all over again next year?

If we still don't have a solid plan at center and guard going into next season, that would be an abject disaster.

jnday · 08-18-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCount

Took a risk and got stung? If they wanted Nagy on the roster, he'd still be on it. When they cut him, they knew full well that he might get snatched up. They cut him anyway.

They cut him because he wasn't going to be a factor this year on a team that is preaching urgency. They also know more about his ankle than anyone on this forum does.

The idea that they were "stung" because they lost a guy that wasn't going to do anything for the team this year is laughable. You think the team desperately needs to hang onto a guy for 3 years, for what? To play musical chairs at guard and center all over again next year?

If we still don't have a solid plan at center and guard going into next season, that would be an abject disaster.

I think you covered all points. You have a lineman who couldn't start for his college team is now injured. Dallas had to make a decision and decided to waive him knowing that he could get picked up by somebody else. If this was a better player, Dallas wouldn't have risked it. They sure wouldn't have taken this chance withbTyron, or even Arkin. Nagy started a few games last year and was ranked as one of the worst guards in football. The only reason for him to start was due to lack of options. There was nobody else available.

EGG · 08-18-2012

lol, the team took a 7th round flyer on the guy and in the short time he was here he was injured twice and didn't show enough to be worth the roster spot, and that's saying something with the expanded rosters. If you want to rue a team decision I can point you to several others that will almost certainly come back to bite us...

ravidubey · 08-18-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by wittenacious

Cracks me up...

For some fans: Get angry because Jerry Jones was stupid enough to draft Nagy in the first place.
Well, but then: Get angry because Jerry Jones was stupid and lost Nagy on waivers, moving him to IR.

My first reaction: Yeah, sorta sucks... but oh, well. NFL football as it's done. Bill Nagy might have been good, but he kept getting his ankle injured... now two years in a row.

If Nagy — a 7th Round pick — is a player considered worth picking up off the waiver wires, then almost no player is safe trying to get them on IR. It's a formality to have to waive a player first, exposing them, but a rule. Rarely does anything happen except the player goes to IR.

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But did the Giants release the TE to bring in a loser like Ed Wesley whom they immediately cut anyway? Did Tom Coughlin actually risk losing the TE so he could give a family member a tryout?

Incompetence seems to plague Cowboys management.

Nagy's strength was as a developmental prospect. As such, you don't risk losing him for a fringe player you are churning the roster for at the moment. Dallas couldn't just wait and IR him once the period passed where he doesn't have to clear waivers first. No, they had to make room for Ed Wesley and Garrett's nephew. Ridiculous!