Jimmy Johnson knew if a player could play!

[tyke1doe]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Jimmy and his staff knew as much about the players coming into the NFL in 1989-1991 as anyone ever has. All the staffers be brought from the college ranks had recruited and watched endless amounts of film of high school studs.

Add to that Jimmy could watch a DB for 10 minutes and tell you if he could play and he became the very best personnel guy in the business.

All that said two things are also very true which balance the story.
As in all things the truth lies in the middle.

Jimmy really was NOT very good at selecting offensive talent. He had no special knowledge of what good offensive players looked like coming out of college. He didn't like Troy much at first. Thought he was a loser. Repeated that theory to many. He drafted terribly on offense for the Dolphins (though quickly built a solid defense).

[View Full Quote]But the main issue with the Jimmy-Jerry feud is money. Jimmy never had any say over the money. Any and every contract he wanted signed Jerry had to sign. Any draft pick he wanted signed Jerry had to sign. Jimmy could have NEVER BEEN the final word on anything because he never had financial authority. There is tons of evidence of that.

And Jimmy has never had a bigger fan than himself. A lot has been made about him saying he wouldn't draft dumb players. We are talking about the guy who drafted a player (Cecil Collins) who attracted national attention before the draft because he took a dump in a girlfriend's clothes basket.

Jimmy calls this a country club but the Cowboys had the White House under Jimmy's nose. That group's partying would make Dez Bryant's head explode.

Jimmy was good at finding players for "his" scheme. Russell Maryland, Alvin Harper and Larry Brown were good players with the Cowboys. With other teams, uh, not so much.

Jimmy knew how to mold guys into a team, even if they were marginal talents. But you need marginal players to do their part too.

[KJJ]

Originally Posted by BraveHeartFan

Ummm...yes. That absolutely makes their pick complete luck. And if you're trying to claim that Walsh or Bill are brilliant for their picks of Montana and Brady then to each their own but those are as lucky a picks as a person could ever get.


Also you're talking about guys they lucked into later rounds in the draft. Jimmy wanted Francis earlier in the first, and could have gotten him, but was finally talked out of it by the scouts who said Emmitt was the guy. This isn't brilliant on Jimmy's part it's brilliant on his staffs part and good on Jimmy to have finally given in and listened.


But that's not brilliant and the lucky picks of Montana and even more so Brady are anything but brilliant. They're luck personified.

Anytime you select a player later in the draft who ends up being a HOF player it's pure luck. Had anyone including Bill Walsh knew Joe Montana would become what he did Montana would have been the first pick in the draft. The same with Tom Brady who had several QB's drafted ahead of him. The draft is a crapshoot regardless of where you're picking. Blair Thomas was the highest rated back in the 90 draft even Jimmy and his staff had him rated ahead of Emmitt.

Keith McCants who lasted only 7 years in the league with 3 different teams was the highest rated LB in the 90 draft and was taken one spot ahead of Junior Seau who'll be inducted into Canton in a few years. Whether you're picking #1 overall or #32 the draft is a roll of the dice. A lot of players turn out better than others because of their head coach and situation they're drafted into with a particular team.

[jazzcat22]

Originally Posted by KJJ

The biggest misses were the trades for Alonzo Highsmith and Daniel Stubbs/ Terrence Flagler. Highsmith who had injury issues with the Oilers cost the Cowboys a #2 and a #5 and only accounted for 19 carries for 48 yards in his 2 seasons with Dallas. Stubbs and Flagler were a packaged deal that cost the Cowboys a #2 and a #3. Flagler isn't even listed as playing for the Cowboys so apparently he was cut during camp.

Flagler refused to play for Jimmy.....so I yhink they worked out another deal, with a 3rd team that Flagler went to, and Dallas ended up with a draft pick.

[jazzcat22]

Originally Posted by BraveHeartFan

Ummm...yes. That absolutely makes their pick complete luck. And if you're trying to claim that Walsh or Bill are brilliant for their picks of Montana and Brady then to each their own but those are as lucky a picks as a person could ever get.


Also you're talking about guys they lucked into later rounds in the draft. Jimmy wanted Francis earlier in the first, and could have gotten him, but was finally talked out of it by the scouts who said Emmitt was the guy. This isn't brilliant on Jimmy's part it's brilliant on his staffs part and good on Jimmy to have finally given in and listened.


But that's not brilliant and the lucky picks of Montana and even more so Brady are anything but brilliant. They're luck personified.

And contributing to the luck of drafting Montana was the Cowboys.....Tex Schramm said the ONLY time he was ever talked into or out of a draft pick was Montana....He wanted to select joe, but they had Danny White taking over for Roger...they needed a TE, so they drafted Doug Cosbie....

Was this a bad decision on the Cowboys part...no, but was luck for Walsh...

Now the BIG ?????
If this was Jerry making this decision....how would he be lambasted...but Tex, Gil & Tom....wouldn't....

[Plankton]

Originally Posted by BraveHeartFan

Ummm...yes. That absolutely makes their pick complete luck. And if you're trying to claim that Walsh or Bill are brilliant for their picks of Montana and Brady then to each their own but those are as lucky a picks as a person could ever get.


Also you're talking about guys they lucked into later rounds in the draft. Jimmy wanted Francis earlier in the first, and could have gotten him, but was finally talked out of it by the scouts who said Emmitt was the guy. This isn't brilliant on Jimmy's part it's brilliant on his staffs part and good on Jimmy to have finally given in and listened.


But that's not brilliant and the lucky picks of Montana and even more so Brady are anything but brilliant. They're luck personified.

The Francis scenario was not one that he was talked out out - he couldn't trade ahead of the Bengals, who ended up selecting him. He could not have gotten him. He also looked into trading up for Ray Agnew in the draft that year, and couldn't.

Again, using this example to knock Jimmy is completely asinine, because it doesn't talk about the actual results. Especially when every other team in the league has the same thing happen to them - see the Montana selection.

[jazzcat22]

Originally Posted by Plankton

The Francis scenario was not one that he was talked out out - he couldn't trade ahead of the Bengals, who ended up selecting him. He could not have gotten him. He also looked into trading up for Ray Agnew in the draft that year, and couldn't.

Again, using this example to knock Jimmy is completely asinine, because it doesn't talk about the actual results. Especially when every other team in the league has the same thing happen to them - see the Montana selection.

Was is Agnew or Lamar Lathon? Or was one of them in another draft he tried to trade up for?

[Randy White]

Originally Posted by Chuck 54

Everything in the NFL has an element of talent and a dose of good fortune and timing.

Stick this comment in the homepage so EVERYBODY who comes in here sees it.

[KJJ]

Originally Posted by jazzcat22

Flagler refused to play for Jimmy.....so I yhink they worked out another deal, with a 3rd team that Flagler went to, and Dallas ended up with a draft pick.

The Cowboys got a 3rd round pick back from SF so that may have been why. Flagler ended up with the Cardinals. He was probably afraid he would end up on Jimmy's asthma field. He lasted 2 years in Phoenix rushing for a grand total of 92 yards on 14 carries. Darrin Nelson was another back who didn't want to play for Jimmy he was one of the veteran players the Cowboys got in the Walker deal.

I hope both he and Flagler enjoyed sitting home out of football watching the Cowboys win their 3 SB's. Even had both players played for Jimmy they would have been cut by the time the Cowboys started winning championships.

[Arkyvarminter]

Originally Posted by alsmith

Jimmy did a great job coaching using fear, just as H.S. coaches use today and college coaches use today, because the players have no choice in the matter, but in the NFL that will not work with the NFL players anymore, as for players just release them and another team will be glad to pick them up and play and pay them.

Remember, for those who have forgotten, Jimmy the great, he did not want QB Troy as the QB, he wanted QB Walsh from Miami as his QB, and Jimmy the great, he did not want RB Emmitt, he said he was to small and slow, he wanted to draft a LB that was drafted just ahead of his pick, ahead of him and Jimmy had to be talked into taking Emmitt.

[View Full Quote]So as for how great he was, yes he was a very good coach but he also proved in Miami that his coaching style and his system does not and will not work in this Free Agent area, known as today's NFL, that is and was the reason he QUIT coaching, he knew it then and now because players would not take the abuse that he shovel out, as he even said he was too hard on the players and the players today, forget about it.

Why do you think Jimmy would not come back to coaching, he has enough ego of him in him, not to want to destroy his image, remember he a legend in his own mind, and yes he did win here and thank you Jimmy and Jerry for the SB wins together but your ego Jimmy got in your own way and it still shows today, is that enough credit for him..

Jimmy you did something that people should never do,,, you disrespected your boss, instead of saying we build this team, as so for you and the players that was signed, and to give the man that sign those big checks as the owner and GM and scouts that took those trips and people that worked hard to put all that info together for you and coaches,

Jimmy you totally disrespected the man who took a chance on you, Jerry was told not to because of Jimmy big ego, other teams would not touch him because of that, but Jimmy you totally disrespect him the owner in a bar in front of friends and other coaches, by the way I would have FIRED your a-s-s too.

Remember with Jimmy its all or none, and he has more than enough of him for everyone..

In the end, who did Jimmy go with as his starting QB...Enough said

[dallasdave]

Originally Posted by Arkyvarminter

I believe I saw it on "A football life with Jimmy Johnson" where it showed the players Jimmy drafted and traded for while he coached in Dallas. I watched those teams win Super Bowls. My point is, when it showed the players Jimmy drafted and traded for I had forgotten how great he was at picking the right players. I mean, when he picked a player, that player usually went on to do big things in the NFL and many were pro bowlers. Alot of Jimmy's success hinged on his ability to pick very talented individuals. If he had a truly great player he wasn't beyond trying to trade that player for several guys he KNEW he could turn into great players. The man was good at picking potential pro bowlers. Do we have that now? Is Jerry putting his two cents in the draft and his opinion is worth exactly that..Two cents?

you are right=Jimmy knew if someone was a player=we need that now

[Novacek84]

Originally Posted by Proximo

Do you honest to God think Jimmy alone was responsible for the evaluation of players and deciding who to draft and who to sign/trade? I understand the guy did a phenomenal job building us up in the early 90s but there were other members of the staff and front office that had insight and played a part in the evaluation of the talent that Dallas procured.

probably so but it looks to me like 'ol Jerruh wasn't one of them.

[dallasdave]

Jimmy was the general, he had captins such as Norv turner, Dave Wannstedt, he picked the right people around him and set them to task, and he was the task master.

[Yakuza Rich]

Jimmy stockpiled picks continually. He also set it up so that we could take a player that still had talent to play, but we wanted to move on and we could trade him for picks instead of letting him go in FA. Players like Jenkins, Felix and Spencer would have been traded before they could hit FA and we would have gotten a lot of picks for them.

It provided the team with young players to develop, a 'fail safe' in dealing with draft picks that often bust, and it provided with another way to motivate the veterans as they knew that they were replaceable if they didn't meet expectations.

Had we been able to use this personnel philosophy, we could have gotten a Morris Claiborne and somebody like Kevin Zeitler while having a 2nd round pick available. And maybe we don't ever trade somebody like Felix because he's too motivated to not dare show up to camp out of shape.







YR

[LatinMind]

lol i think too many people think Jimmy is a genius, he knew if they could play?

first round picks for Jimmy

96 Daryl Garneder DT
97 Yatil Green WR
98 John Avery RB
99 J.J Johnson RB * first pick was 2nd rd

Yup Jimmy was the one who built everything in Dallas.