If We All Agree That Payton is a Better Coach

[Rack Bauer]

Originally Posted by Bluestang

Saints have ranked 19th, 28th, 28th, 6th, 28th, 6th, 26th since Payton took over.

2 years out 7 is greatness...LOL!

.

Well then he'd be perfect here since we can't run the ball either.

[Illini88228]

I think it's kind of hilarious that all these fans are tripping over themselves to bring back Payton. He was mocked, ridiculed, and despised the whole time he was here. Fans wouldn't shut up about how he had his play-calling duties taken away in NY and how we were so stupid to have brought in an OC who was effectively demoted mid-season by the Giants. People were thrilled when he left. And now, because the same guy had success somewhere else, they want him back.

No one ever likes the Dallas Cowboys play caller. Ever. It's too easy to go back and second guess every one of their decisions. But now Garrett gets double hate because people hate any Dallas HC who doesn't win at least a couple super bowls, and they always hate the playcalling, and because it's the same guy now, they're all frothing at the mouth trying to ditch him.

Here's the dirty little secret though, the same people will hate the next guy, too. Until our fans get over the idea that it won't take time and continuity to rebuild this franchise, they'll be on a constant roller coaster of falling in love with one coach, only to turn their backs on him after he turns out to not be Tom Landry, Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi, and ***** all rolled into one.

[17yearsandcounting]

Originally Posted by Illini88228

I think it's kind of hilarious that all these fans are tripping over themselves to bring back Payton. He was mocked, ridiculed, and despised the whole time he was here. Fans wouldn't shut up about how he had his play-calling duties taken away in NY and how we were so stupid to have brought in an OC who was effectively demoted mid-season by the Giants. People were thrilled when he left. And now, because the same guy had success somewhere else, they want him back.

No one ever likes the Dallas Cowboys play caller. Ever. It's too easy to go back and second guess every one of their decisions. But now Garrett gets double hate because people hate any Dallas HC who doesn't win at least a couple super bowls, and they always hate the playcalling, and because it's the same guy now, they're all frothing at the mouth trying to ditch him.

[View Full Quote]Here's the dirty little secret though, the same people will hate the next guy, too. Until our fans get over the idea that it won't take time and continuity to rebuild this franchise, they'll be on a constant roller coaster of falling in love with one coach, only to turn their backs on him after he turns out to not be Tom Landry, Bill Walsh, Vince Lombardi, and ***** all rolled into one.

Continuity is a joke when you are continuing with a key contributor to a team of absolute losers.

[birdwells1]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

Garrett has changed lots of things but the thing he hasn't really change is strong trenches. We have the worst OL ever here due to injury and failed drafts (the last bad OL was okay but very expensive) and unwillingness to spend on FAs this past offseason. The funny part is Center has been atrocious for running which is expected given that we are down to our fifth string guy. But the really odd part is our OL has struggled where we invested money (Free) and high draft picks (Smith). Maybe Smith can't play the left side which is a shame given the draft pick invested or maybe he is going through a sophomore slump and just needs a bit more time to play on the left side. Free looks like he is done and this one is still a giant mystery to me.

The DL has just been under-invested in for years. Right now we have a 7th rounder (NT), backup NT (7th rounder), backup DE (Lissemore, 7th rounder) and starting DE (Coleman, scrap FA) that are almost afterthoughts on this roster.
[View Full Quote]
Meanwhile we have an 8-figure CB, a top 10 pick CB, a $9M WR (Miles), a $8M TE and a 1st round backup RB. The FO doesn't invest picks or money wisely so it is no shock to me when we fail. What is a shock is that Garrett may have made it work if the OL stayed healthy.

Yeah but check out those jersey sales. Lineman number don't see as much.

[Luckenbach]

Originally Posted by Illini88228

I think it's kind of hilarious that all these fans are tripping over themselves to bring back Payton. He was mocked, ridiculed, and despised the whole time he was here.

Generalize much? I loved Payton. I also rarely heard negative of him... Hated to see him go, even wished Parcells retired earlier so that maybe we could have had him as HC. To be fair though I was not a Parcells fan, so maybe I was just looking for greener grass on the other side at the time... Parcells was too self absorbed, and cared more about his ego than winning. Hence his crybaby response to the entire Owens saga, and why he was able to co-exist with Jerry for so long.

Don't get me wrong, Parcells is a great HOF coach etc., but I wasn't a fan of some of his decisions.

[Illini88228]

Originally Posted by Luckenbach

Generalize much? I loved Payton. I also rarely heard negative of him... Hated to see him go, even wished Parcells retired earlier so that maybe we could have had him as HC. To be fair though I was not a Parcells fan, so maybe I was just looking for greener grass on the other side at the time... Parcells was too self absorbed, and cared more about his ego than winning. Hence his crybaby response to the entire Owens saga, and why he was able to co-exist with Jerry for so long.

Don't get me wrong, Parcells is a great HOF coach etc., but I wasn't a fan of some of his decisions.

That's a fair criticism. What I said was a generalization. However, I stand by the fact that its many of the same knee-jerk fans who hated Payton then, who want him back now. It's part of a pervasive mentality amongst this fanbase that every coach we have is some sort of league wide laughingstock, even if that perception bears no resemblance to reality.

[Luckenbach]

Originally Posted by Illini88228

That's a fair criticism. What I said was a generalization. However, I stand by the fact that its many of the same knee-jerk fans who hated Payton then, who want him back now. It's part of a pervasive mentality amongst this fanbase that every coach we have is some sort of league wide laughingstock, even if that perception bears no resemblance to reality.

My issue with Garrett has nothing to do with outside perception. It is merely that I do not feel that he is ready to lead, mostly evident by his poor performance thus far. His 'process' will probably be beneficial over the long run should he not go. However, I feel that he is overwhelmed by the game, and is simply not ready for his current position.

I feel his playcalling choices are very concerning, I feel game management is an even bigger obstacle for him to overcome than coaching to reduce the penalties.

However, I've never liked him, I wanted Turner as HC in 2007 so his hiring happening before the HC, pretty much eliminated that option. I may be 'looking' for reasons to dislike him, but to be fair I have been since he was hired.

[VThokie7]

Originally Posted by jobberone

Is Payton a better coach? I don't know. He's won with Brees who is one of the best pure passers I've ever seen. They have some great receivers. They can definitely throw some points on the board.

Not so much D though. Ok STs.

Payton has won less with more at NO than I'd expect but he's still a very good coach.

It's really hard for me to evaluate coaches for different teams unless they have a fairly large body of work.

You're not sure if Payton is better than Garrett? Come on man!

Drew Brees was far from an elite QB when he met Sean Payton. The Chargers loved him so much they drafted Phillip Rivers. Granted he ended up keeping the job and being successful, when he hit the open market only two teams actually wanted him. So perhaps Payton's offense and creativity helped unleash Drew Brees and take him to that next level?

[birdwells1]

Originally Posted by Illini88228

That's a fair criticism. What I said was a generalization. However, I stand by the fact that its many of the same knee-jerk fans who hated Payton then, who want him back now. It's part of a pervasive mentality amongst this fanbase that every coach we have is some sort of league wide laughingstock, even if that perception bears no resemblance to reality.

The Campos, Gaileys, Phillips and Garretts of the world didn't have to choose the Cowboys over a host of other teams because, when we hired them, no on else wanted them. Could you tell me why that is?