Garrett not calling plays for the betterment of the Cowboys

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by Hostile

It is a good post Hoofer. But I see a lot of the critical pieces of the 49ers team were already being assembled and he walked into a great situation. The year before he got hired I predicted the 49ers would run away with that Division and stay atop if for several years.

It doesn't look like I was too far off, but in 2010 they bombed and Harbaugh inherited a very good team IMO. I simply don't agree that they changed everything and it works. Many of their starters are long time established players like Gore, Staley, Davis, McDonald, Smith, and especially the best ILB in the game, Patrick Willis.

I'm certainly not saying Jim Harbaugh is not a great coach, he is. But if you think he could have taken over the 2010 Raiders and done this you're kidding yourself. The 49ers had a great start on a good football team and their current success does not surprise me and I honestly believe other coaches hired in 2011 could have turned that team around.

Well sure he had some talent. That doesn't change the fact that he did what those before him could not. I posted the turnovers and penalties because those are often viewed as a reflection of being well prepared. If we can accept that teams that are well prepared usually don't slop it up with penalties and turnovers, I don't think there's anything that can be said to discredit his success in those areas, regardless of talent. Taking a guy like Alex Smith who threw 10 INTs in 2010 and turning him into a guy who turns it over half as much isn't because Alex Smith gained a world of talent. He likely improved but he did so under the tutelage of Harbaugh.

I think what he has done with Kaepernick is great. I still think they should have gone all in for Peyton Manning, because QB was their one flaw. Now it appears he has solved that. I give the player and coach kudos for that.

But he did not turn around a doormat. He turned around a team that should have done it a year earlier and didn't.

I'm not going to argue he didn't have talent. He had some nice pieces but as I said, he did what the guys before him could not. Additionally, if having a plethora of talent was a prerequisite in order to determine the quality of a coach, nobody would ever be fired because all teams have fewer studs than they do role players and duds.

The idea of "culture" has been spoken on this board for a while. It usually gets a lot of play when talking about cutting an aging vet like Gurode or Newman, letting a malcontent find his way to the door like Bennett (not that he was a malcontent in the true sense, just that he didn't fit the program), or when the team picks up all these clean-cut ex-captains who are then referred to as RKGs.

"Culture" is also used in another instance except this one is more along the lines of an excuse and occurs when the outcomes don't meet expectations. "You can't change culture overnight" or "It takes time to change the culture". If Harbaugh can come into a team who's culture was that of perennial loser struggling to break even and all of a sudden get the #1 seed in the playoffs out of them and follow that up with a trip to the Superbowl, I think culture can be changed quickly but is dependent on the guy making the changes. If we agree he had some pieces, I see no other alternative although you may not agree.

Coaches shouldn't be judged based on what they can do with a Pro Bowl roster because such a team doesn't exist. They should be judged based on what they have at the time of hire. Given what Harbaugh had at the time of his hiring, he's done a miraculous job. I don't know a single person who could have said that a team lead by Alex Smith could be a few plays away from the Superbowl and I'm not sure anyone would have said the same thing about Kaeppernick this year.

Whether or not the changes he has made are reflected on the roster, they're damn sure reflected on the field. If we're going to credit culture as part of the reason Dallas hasn't been meeting expectations, it's only fair to credit culture as the most significant change for the 49ers raising, and meeting, their expectations.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

Coaches shouldn't be judged based on what they can do with a Pro Bowl roster because such a team doesn't exist. They should be judged based on what they have at the time of hire.

I agree. Garrett inherited a 1-7 that had given up. He then proceeded to empty the roster of dead weight his first off season and this year lost too much to injury. I am sorry if I think Harbaugh did not have to do the same, but show me his roster purge and show me the litany of injuries.

If you want to know the truth, I think Pete Carroll is every bit as good a coach and did just as much if not more with the Seahawks, but because he has prior NFL experience and 1 extra year some people are thinking it is not as good a job.

[junk]

Originally Posted by superpunk

He overhauled the coaching staff and changed the culture of a team that hadn't had a winning season since 2002. In his first year he won 13 games and went to the NFCCG with a scrub at QB who had spent the previous six years as a starter in abject futility.

More specifically he found his team a franchise QB and an elite pass rusher, two of the toughest positions to fill. And if Kapernick isn't a franchise guy, that makes what Harbaugh is doing even more impressive, since Kapernick appears at least mildly retarded.

Since he took over they have replaced 11 of 22 starters. More if you count FBs and 3rd WRs. Some players, like Bowman, were drafted by the previous regime - but roster turnover is what it is. Half his starting lineup replaced.

[View Full Quote]We replaced 13 starters (12 or 11 depending on how you count Spears and Hatcher) over the same time period with Jason taking over. And yeah sometimes with players Wade drafted, just like Harbaugh. So if you think Harbaugh has "changed little" sounds like you need to educate yourself a little more. He started off behind Garrett and has since lapped the red-headed twerp.

The real issue is that Harbaugh seems to have gotten the most out of the players who were already on his roster, while at the same time doing his best to overhaul the lineup and effect change. Garrett on the other hand, has us stagnating at 8-8 every year while he implements his "process".

Great post.

There's no doubt that Harbaugh's performance in SF has outweighed what Garrett has done in Dallas. He's done a terrific job....but he has one thing that Garrett lacks......years of coaching experience. Harbaugh started coaching while he was still playing.

I'd also give Trent Baalke some credit. A team with a solid GM who has worked his way up through the scouting community is always going to have a leg up on other franchises.

[junk]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

Excuse me, but this is just ridiculous.

First and foremost, if you're going to sit around and tell fans and people that follow the Dallas Cowboys that they aren't connected enough to know the inner workings of, and what exactly is goes on inside of, Valley Ranch I'm not sure you have any sort of ground to make a statement about what Harbaugh has or has not changed.

In the thread for JJT's article today.



JJT is paid to follow the Cowboys. He has first hand encounters with people on the inside. If he doesn't have the qualifications to say something about a team that he follows and communicates directly with, where do you get your authority to make a statement about the 49ers?

He has firsthand experience so unless you can top that (i.e. pretty much work for the 49ers), I don't think you have a leg to stand on regardless of what grapevine rumblings are out there.


[View Full Quote]Secondly, looking at his results would support him changing quite a bit. That team hadn't won more than 8 games in 8 years and he comes in and gets 13 & 11 wins, back-to-back NFCCG appearances, and now a Superbowl appearance with a championship to be determined........pretty sure there's something different about that team.

His 24 wins is only 2 shy of the 4 years just prior to his arrival combined. He took what was basically a bottom 10 scoring offense for the better part of a decade and with pretty much the exact same players has turned them into the 11th best scoring offense in back to back years.

In both seasons thus far his team has committed fewer penalties than the year prior. 2010 they had 7 per game, 2011 they had 6.8 per game, and 2012 they had 6.7 per game.

Perhaps most impressively, he took the 49ers from being pretty good in terms of ball protection in the previous few years before his arrival (11th in 2010 with 23 turnovers, 10th in 2009 with 24 turnobers) to absolutely top of the league since. In 2011 they turned it over a league best 10 times. This year they turned it over 16 times, which came in 2nd.

Three coaches prior to him couldn't come close to what he's done. Pretty sure he's made some changes and quite honestly it's pretty hard to argue with the results.

Another great post.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by Hostile

I agree. Garrett inherited a 1-7 that had given up. He then proceeded to empty the roster of dead weight his first off season and this year lost too much to injury. I am sorry if I think Harbaugh did not have to do the same, but show me his roster purge and show me the litany of injuries.

That was a 1-7 team only in record, not in talent. That much should be clear based on the 5-3 finish.

And quite personally, if we have too downward to the failings of Wade Phillips in order to valide the performance of Jason instead of looking upward to the good coach's who were established or those who have started from similar spots or worse and passed Dallas, I'm not entirely too impressed.

As far as the roster purge goes, the fact that there was a purge in the first place is another issue entirely. Roster purges happen because old, highly paid, and underperforming players are on the roster. When management puts themselves into a position to have to purge the roster, it shouldn't come as a surprise when it happens. And when that management is the same currently and will likely have to purge more players like Ratliff and Free, at what point can we evaluate Jason appropriately? He's had a QB the whole time which is more than about half the league can say.

Roster purge or not, why is Dallas currently the 3rd most penalized team in the league AND TRENDING UP under Jason's command? You can't tell me there are teams with less talent who aren't committing as many penalties.

Why was Dallas Dallas 5th in turnovers after having knocked the number down from their awful number in 2010?

And lastly, why did it take nearly 3 quarters every week before the offense started to make anything happen? Averaging less than 3 points in the first quarter is downright awful. Only Oakland and Philly were worse in the first quarter which means Cleveland, Kansas City, Arizona and all the other teams without QBs were better. That's just bad. If it were that bad for the rest of the game, Dallas wouldn't have won a single game this year. Doesn't say much by itself but when you consider Dallas had the highest 4th quarter scoring average, it sure raises the question as to why. Why, every week, did Dallas look so miserable for the first quarter (and first half for many games) and then all of a sudden the switch was flipped and they looked unstoppable as time was winding down?

If it is too early now to judge the man based on the outcomes of his games thus far, consecutive 8-8 seasons, fine. I can go with that for a minute. But how about we judge the man on the means by which they got to those 8-8 seasons or the "process" of those outcomes, if you will.

If Dallas was a team of moderate talent and no QB who played smart, mistake-free, and penalty-free football and had just finished the season 8-8, I could be satisfied. Not with the end result because 8-8 isn't great at all. It's average. No, I could be satisfied because I would know that the team is is a QB and a few pieces away from being a true contender and if they found that QB that I could pencil them in for a playoff spot. Once they found those pieces, they'd be formidable. If they found a really good QB, they'd be a serious title contender and I could rest assured knowing that I would see very few sloppy games where the team simply didn't show up and that if they lost it would more than likely be because the opponent came to the field on top of their game and simply outplayed them.

That was not the case at all.

Dallas was/is a team of good talent. I'd even say great talent on the offense except at the OL which makes the entire aversion to acquiring players on the OL who are comparable to the players at the skill positions even more nonsensical. But I'll leave it at "good" talent. They have a QB, one who can be just as good as any in the league on any given day and one who will keep you in every single game regardless of what happens. He may crap a couple games a season but over the course of the year you should win far more games because of him than you lose because of him, or win in spite of him. I've been harsh on the guy at times but because he cannot turn the ball over like he was some time ago. I'll give him a pass this year because he was sent out there without a line that didn't help him. He couldn't rely on them at all, it showed many times and if were for his ability to compensate for them he would have been sacked probably another 20-30 times. Quite honestly, if Dallas had not been able to make those 4th quarters interesting I think Jason is no doubt gone. They would have been a 4-5 win team and Jerry wouldn't settle for that. In that regard, Romo pretty much gave Jason a stay of execution.

But, even with the talent and the most important piece Dallas finished 8-8. They did so because they were played stupid football and were penalized over and over again. Additionally, they absolutely could not avoid turning the ball over and they looked so uncoordinated and sloppy at times that it was almost hard to watch. To top that off, there were a number of games where the team flat out looked atrocious for at least the first quarter, some times spreading through the second quarter. I can't really recall how many games where the team actually looked like they showed up to play and then finished the game with a clean slate. Atlanta and maybe week 1.

This leaves me unsatisfied because even if Dallas gets all the pieces in place they still won't be able to get the job done if they don't clean up the penalties, turnovers and stupid mistakes. With those pieces, we still don't know which team is going to who up just as we didn't know this year and last year.

If were not going to judge him for the record, lets judge him for the means to the record. In that regard I haven't been impressed at all.

If you want to know the truth, I think Pete Carroll is every bit as good a coach and did just as much if not more with the Seahawks, but because he has prior NFL experience and 1 extra year some people are thinking it is not as good a job.

I would agree. He had that team on another level this year.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

That was a 1-7 team only in record, not in talent. That much should be clear based on the 5-3 finish.

And quite personally, if we have too downward to the failings of Wade Phillips in order to valide the performance of Jason instead of looking upward to the good coach's who were established or those who have started from similar spots or worse and passed Dallas, I'm not entirely too impressed.

[View Full Quote]As far as the roster purge goes, the fact that there was a purge in the first place is another issue entirely. Roster purges happen because old, highly paid, and underperforming players are on the roster. When management puts themselves into a position to have to purge the roster, it shouldn't come as a surprise when it happens. And when that management is the same currently and will likely have to purge more players like Ratliff and Free, at what point can we evaluate Jason appropriately? He's had a QB the whole time which is more than about half the league can say.

Roster purge or not, why is Dallas currently the 3rd most penalized team in the league AND TRENDING UP under Jason's command? You can't tell me there are teams with less talent who aren't committing as many penalties.

Why was Dallas Dallas 5th in turnovers after having knocked the number down from their awful number in 2010?

And lastly, why did it take nearly 3 quarters every week before the offense started to make anything happen? Averaging less than 3 points in the first quarter is downright awful. Only Oakland and Philly were worse in the first quarter which means Cleveland, Kansas City, Arizona and all the other teams without QBs were better. That's just bad. If it were that bad for the rest of the game, Dallas wouldn't have won a single game this year. Doesn't say much by itself but when you consider Dallas had the highest 4th quarter scoring average, it sure raises the question as to why. Why, every week, did Dallas look so miserable for the first quarter (and first half for many games) and then all of a sudden the switch was flipped and they looked unstoppable as time was winding down?

If it is too early now to judge the man based on the outcomes of his games thus far, consecutive 8-8 seasons, fine. I can go with that for a minute. But how about we judge the man on the means by which they got to those 8-8 seasons or the "process" of those outcomes, if you will.

If Dallas was a team of moderate talent and no QB who played smart, mistake-free, and penalty-free football and had just finished the season 8-8, I could be satisfied. Not with the end result because 8-8 isn't great at all. It's average. No, I could be satisfied because I would know that the team is is a QB and a few pieces away from being a true contender and if they found that QB that I could pencil them in for a playoff spot. Once they found those pieces, they'd be formidable. If they found a really good QB, they'd be a serious title contender and I could rest assured knowing that I would see very few sloppy games where the team simply didn't show up and that if they lost it would more than likely be because the opponent came to the field on top of their game and simply outplayed them.

That was not the case at all.

Dallas was/is a team of good talent. I'd even say great talent on the offense except at the OL which makes the entire aversion to acquiring players on the OL who are comparable to the players at the skill positions even more nonsensical. But I'll leave it at "good" talent. They have a QB, one who can be just as good as any in the league on any given day and one who will keep you in every single game regardless of what happens. He may crap a couple games a season but over the course of the year you should win far more games because of him than you lose because of him, or win in spite of him. I've been harsh on the guy at times but because he cannot turn the ball over like he was some time ago. I'll give him a pass this year because he was sent out there without a line that didn't help him. He couldn't rely on them at all, it showed many times and if were for his ability to compensate for them he would have been sacked probably another 20-30 times. Quite honestly, if Dallas had not been able to make those 4th quarters interesting I think Jason is no doubt gone. They would have been a 4-5 win team and Jerry wouldn't settle for that. In that regard, Romo pretty much gave Jason a stay of execution.

But, even with the talent and the most important piece Dallas finished 8-8. They did so because they were played stupid football and were penalized over and over again. Additionally, they absolutely could not avoid turning the ball over and they looked so uncoordinated and sloppy at times that it was almost hard to watch. To top that off, there were a number of games where the team flat out looked atrocious for at least the first quarter, some times spreading through the second quarter. I can't really recall how many games where the team actually looked like they showed up to play and then finished the game with a clean slate. Atlanta and maybe week 1.

This leaves me unsatisfied because even if Dallas gets all the pieces in place they still won't be able to get the job done if they don't clean up the penalties, turnovers and stupid mistakes. With those pieces, we still don't know which team is going to who up just as we didn't know this year and last year.

If were not going to judge him for the record, lets judge him for the means to the record. In that regard I haven't been impressed at all.




I would agree. He had that team on another level this year.

Impressive

[Gemini Dolly]

Originally Posted by SDCowboy85

Since you're fishing for me to say Romo, Romo. He had a crap game.

OMG. I thought you had bailed on Romo. Youre back.

[ndanger]

Originally Posted by superpunk

I was wondering this the other day, but how many examples can you think of where surrendering the playcalling "worked" - as in resulted in a sudden turnaround and improved production?

Obviously this was a needed change. Jason has proved he is inept and can't handle the responsibility we placed on him (or that he placed on himself, whichever) so we're rectifying the situation. I don't know for sure but I think in general when we hear "Head Coach X has been stripped of playcalling duties" that's pretty much a precursor to "Head Coach X has been fired". It's not like the guys in the locker room don't know what's going on when they see the head man getting his balls clipped like this. Hopefully they all really like him because it's tough to get motivated to play for a marked man like this if you aren't his biggest fan.

Didn't Sean Peyton once get his play calling duties taken away in New York? That seemed to work out ok....right? By the way WASSUP ?

[TwoDeep3]

Originally Posted by LatinMind

You fans amaze me. All along all of you have been screaming for Jerry to take away Calling duties from JG. And now that he has all of you are saying that he's a puppet now. You fans are a joke.

Now ill go on to the reason i started this thread.

This is a good move by Jerry. This team reacts to JG style of coaching. Not only that but JG might have just saved his job. Atleast for this yr. I dont think he would be the coach of the Cowboys in 2013 if he didnt give up play-calling. And IMO JG got the guy he wanted to call plays if he isnt. And thats Callahan.

I think they will keep the same sytem in place. But Callahan will incorporate some new aspects of it. But those of you expecting them to emphasize on the run dont hold your breath. Callahan loves the pass just as much as JG. The pass dominated them Raider teams he called plays for.

[View Full Quote]Getting back to Garrett, he can now focus on the bigger picture and thats the stability of the team the morale and discipline. Im sure he was in over his head in having to manage that and then make adjustments at halftime or in game. He's not good enough to do all that and be successful.

I applaud Jerry for making the right move. He did it for the betterment of the COWBOYS, not to make JG his puppet. Jerry wants JG to be his coach, to flip the bird at all his doubters. But anybody with 2 eyes could see this change needed to happen. And i dont think it wouldnt have happened unless Jerry put his foot down on this with JG.

I find it humorous that some posters see the play calling as a single event and ignore that Jerry just cleaned the defenses clock.

So, doesn't the defense fall under the guiding hand of the head coach?

When you put together a puzzle, you look at all the pieces and see how they fit together. Not just one piece and state it is good but has no link to any others.

Jerry just took over....again....too soon.