Is this possible?

[neosapien23]

What slot do you guys have Kawan Short and Alex Okafor going in this draft? They don't seem to be getting alot of credit even though they have produced more than their counterparts. Short(7) got more sacks than Hankins(1), Richardson(4), Floyd(3), and even Lotulelei (5) and yet he is the 5th rated DT. Okafor (12.5) has more sacks than Ansah(4.5), Montgomery(8), and Jordan(5) and yet Okafor is the 6th rated DE. He is tied with DaMontre Moore (12.5) and only behind Werner who has 13. How can guys who have produced so much be rated so low?

With that said is it possible to trade from 18 into mid 20s and pick up extra picks take Short, then trade up into the low first round or high 2nd round and take Okafor? If Richardson is there at 18 maye some team will be willing to deal? Dallas could then use their 3rd and 4th round picks and take the best two OGs available and move Bernadeu to center. Our lines would go from poor to very good in a hurry.


1st round pick trade down DT Kawan Short
2nd round pick trade up DE Alex Okafor
3rd round pick G Alvin Bailey
4th round pick G Ricky Wagner or best available guard
5th round pick best avialable OT don't know who will be here but I think Ricky Wagner could fall to the 5th, every year a tackle seems to drop and I don't expect this year to be any different. Last year Bobbie Massie fell all the way to the 4th round.
6th round pick best available RB

[Rack Bauer]

Originally Posted by neosapien23

What slot do you guys have Kawan Short and Alex Okafor going in this draft? They don't seem to be getting alot of credit even though they have produced more than their counterparts. Short(7) got more sacks than Hankins(1), Richardson(4), Floyd(3), and even Lotulelei (5) and yet he is the 5th rated DT. Okafor (12.5) has more sacks than Ansah(4.5), Montgomery(8), and Jordan(5) and yet Okafor is the 6th rated DE. He is tied with DaMontre Moore (12.5) and only behind Werner who has 13. How can guys who have produced so much be rated so low?

With that said is it possible to trade from 18 into mid 20s and pick up extra picks take Short, then trade up into the low first round or high 2nd round and take Okafor? If Richardson is there at 18 maye some team will be willing to deal? Dallas could then use their 3rd and 4th round picks and take the best two OGs available and move Bernadeu to center. Our lines would go from poor to very good in a hurry.


[View Full Quote]1st round pick trade down DT Kawan Short
2nd round pick trade up DE Alex Okafor
3rd round pick G Alvin Bailey
4th round pick G Ricky Wagner or best available guard
5th round pick best avialable OT don't know who will be here but I think Ricky Wagner could fall to the 5th, every year a tackle seems to drop and I don't expect this year to be any different. Last year Bobbie Massie fell all the way to the 4th round.
6th round pick best available RB

okafor is not worth trading up for.



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[sureletsrace]

There are a lot of variables that you aren't considering. Level of competition matters. What type of system was the player in? How much talent surrounded the player? Is the player the right size? Will he hold up to the NFL? Can he handle elite competition? Is he an intelligent person? Sacks aren't the be all end all that us fans make it out to be. Can this guy play the run and read the offense and not blow coverages and responsibilities? Were his big plays a result of playing against a bad player or his opponent screwing up or was out exceptional ability?

[neosapien23]

[quote=Rack Bauer;4993875]okafor is not worth trading up for.



Then what about the same scenario and doubling down on DT.
1. Short after a trade down
2. Williams after a trade up

[ABQcowboyJR]

Ii like okafor a lot. I would not mind trading up in the second to get him. I'm just not a big Short fan. The motor is the most important aspect IMO when your talking about the D-line.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by neosapien23

1st round pick trade down DT Kawan Short
2nd round pick trade up DE Alex Okafor
3rd round pick G Alvin Bailey
4th round pick G Ricky Wagner or best available guard
5th round pick best avialable OT don't know who will be here but I think Ricky Wagner could fall to the 5th, every year a tackle seems to drop and I don't expect this year to be any different. Last year Bobbie Massie fell all the way to the 4th round.
6th round pick best available RB

Short is not a high "motor" guy. He has work-ethic issues.

If Okafor is the BPA at the Cowboys pick, then maybe, but they shouldn't trade up for him. He does not have elite quickness that you look for in the Weak-Side DE and his size is borderline as the Strong-Side DE in Kiffin's defense.

Bailey is a good player. I'm not certain that he is the best fit in the ZBS.

I'm not a fan of Wagner as an OG or OT.

There are several OL that I like better than Wagner.

Tier 1:
6'6 310 OT Luke Joeckel Texas A&M
6'6 302 OT Lane Johnson Oklahoma
6'7 305 OT Eric Fisher Central Michigan
6'2 322 OG Chance Warmack Alabama
6'3 310 OG Jonathan Cooper North Carolina

Tier 2:
6'5 308 OG Dallas Thomas Tennessee
6'3 333 OG Larry Warford Kentucky
6'3 305 OC Khaled Holmes Southern California
6'4 305 OC Barrett Jones Alabama
6'4 338 OC Travis Frederick Wisconsin

Tier 3:
6'5 355 OG D.J. Fluker Alabama
6'5 310 OG Oday Aboushi Virginia
6'5 320 OT Menelik Watson Florida State
6'7 315 OT Brennan Williams North Carolina
6'4 310 OG Brian Winters Kent State
6'5 323 OT Chris Faulk LSU
6'4 295 OT David Bakhtiari Colorado
6'5 315 OG Alvin Bailey Arkansas
6'3 313 OG Hugh Thornton Illinois
6'5 304 OT Terron Armstead Arkansas-Pine Bluff
6'6 304 OG Kyle Long Oregon
6'5 333 OT Manase Foketi West Texas A&M
6'3 302 OG Omoregie Uzzi Georgia Tech

Tier 4:
6'3 307 OC Brian Schwenke California
6'2 312 OC Patrick Lewis Texas A&M
6'3 310 OC Ivory Wade Baylor
6'8 312 OT Luke Marquardt Azusa Pacific
6'3 304 OC Braxston Cave Notre Dame

Tier 5:
6'4 302 OG J.C. Tretter Cornell
6'6 311 OT Xavier Nixon Florida
6'5 294 OT David Quessenberry San Jose State
6'4 300 OG Earl Watford James Madison
6'5 301 OG Justin Pugh Syracuse
6'6 310 OT Rick Wagner Wisconsin
6'6 340 OG Travis Bond North Carolina

[DFWJC]

If the question is can we trade down from 18 and up from 47 and get two late 1st round picks, the answer is yes.
It's possible but would require a couple of trades. The value is fair though.

[neosapien23]

1st round pick trade down DT Kawan Short
2nd round pick trade up DE Alex Okafor
3rd round pick G Alvin Bailey
4th round pick G Ricky Wagner or best available guard Sorry fellas I mean to type out Travis Frederick in this spot. I typed Wagner by accident since he plays for the same school as Frederick
5th round pick best avialable OT don't know who will be here but I think Ricky Wagner could fall to the 5th, every year a tackle seems to drop and I don't expect this year to be any different. Last year Bobbie Massie fell all the way to the 4th round.
6th round pick best available RB[/quote]


Also I am flip flopping between Okafor with my 2nd pick and Sylvester Williams. I am more inclinded to go with Williams because in order for Kiffins defense to work, it needs a quick disruptive tackle. Doubling down on DT may not be such a bad idea to make sure one of them pans out. Also on Frederick and Bailey, I do not care than neither would be good for a zone blocking scheme. Frederick crushed people at G in his when he played there and Bailey did the same. The run blocking would be much better with those 2 at guard and Bernadeu at C. I do realize Wagner sucks compared to what was expected of him, but who would be better in the 5th round at tackle?

Final Mock:

1. Kawan Short DT After a trade down
2. Syvester Williams DT after a trade up
3. Alvin Bailey G
4. Travis Frederick G
5. Ricky Wagner T
6. Zack Line FB

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by neosapien23

1st round pick trade down DT Kawan Short
2nd round pick trade up DE Alex Okafor
3rd round pick G Alvin Bailey
4th round pick G Ricky Wagner or best available guard Sorry fellas I mean to type out Travis Frederick in this spot. I typed Wagner by accident since he plays for the same school as Frederick
5th round pick best avialable OT don't know who will be here but I think Ricky Wagner could fall to the 5th, every year a tackle seems to drop and I don't expect this year to be any different. Last year Bobbie Massie fell all the way to the 4th round.
6th round pick best available RB

Also I am flip flopping between Okafor with my 2nd pick and Sylvester Williams. I am more inclinded to go with Williams because in order for Kiffins defense to work, it needs a quick disruptive tackle. Doubling down on DT may not be such a bad idea to make sure one of them pans out. Also on Frederick and Bailey, I do not care than neither would be good for a zone blocking scheme. Frederick crushed people at G in his when he played there and Bailey did the same. The run blocking would be much better with those 2 at guard and Bernadeu at C. I do realize Wagner sucks compared to what was expected of him, but who would be better in the 5th round at tackle?

Final Mock:

1. Kawan Short DT After a trade down
2. Syvester Williams DT after a trade up
3. Alvin Bailey G
4. Travis Frederick G
5. Ricky Wagner T
6. Zack Line FB[/quote]

I expect Frederick to be a 2nd round pick. His ability to player Center bumps him up. As a Guard-only he might be a 3rd rounder.

[Rack Bauer]

[quote=neosapien23;4993930]

Originally Posted by Rack Bauer

okafor is not worth trading up for.



Then what about the same scenario and doubling down on DT.
1. Short after a trade down
2. Williams after a trade up

Hmmm... how about Cooper after a trade down and Short after a trade up?

[DFWJC]

[quote=Rack Bauer;4994260]

Originally Posted by neosapien23

Hmmm... how about Cooper after a trade down and Short after a trade up?

Better
imo

[tm1119]

Sure its possible, but not the way you have it...Id say it would be more like

Short
Okafor
4th
5th
5th
6th

Or something closer to that... If we were definitely targeting Short we couldn't trade any further back than 25 in fear of losing him. So we might pick up an extra 3rd and maybe a 5th in the trade back. But to move back up into the late 1st (say 30) we would have to give up our 2nd and 3rd plus the extra 3rd we got in the 1st trade back. Maybe we get lucky and keep the later 3rd and lose our 4th instead but I doubt it.

So at best it would be:

Short
Okafor
late 3rd
5th
5th
6th

[neosapien23]

Originally Posted by Rack Bauer

[

Hmmm... how about Cooper after a trade down and Short after a trade up?

I would go one further have Dallas trade down to get Cooper and then trade up to take Warford, but I don't think Dallas will take guards that high. They just don't seem to get that premium picks on the Oline is not a bad investment. I think they will spend their first 2 picks on the Dline and then address Oline rounds 3-5. Would much have it the other way though and go Oline rounds 1 and 2 and Dline 3-5.

1. Jonathan Cooper G
2. Larry Warford G
3. Brandon Williams DT
4. Jordon Hill DT
5. Quanterus Smith DE

[AsthmaField]

Originally Posted by neosapien23

I would go one further have Dallas trade down to get Cooper and then trade up to take Warford, but I don't think Dallas will take guards that high. They just don't seem to get that premium picks on the Oline is not a bad investment. I think they will spend their first 2 picks on the Dline and then address Oline rounds 3-5. Would much have it the other way though and go Oline rounds 1 and 2 and Dline 3-5.

1. Jonathan Cooper G
2. Larry Warford G
3. Brandon Williams DT
4. Jordon Hill DT
5. Quanterus Smith DE

I can almost guarantee that they won't go guard/guard with our first and second rounds (and I know you said you don't think they will either). They like Livings and Bernadeau enough and likely feel that at least one of them will play well enough to remain a starter. I do too. A lot of their issues were injuries and getting used to the scheme IMO (not a popular view, I know).

As for the premise of this thread, yes, I could see a move back in round 1 and then a move up in round 2. What I'm unsure of is what players they'd be doing it for. It would probably have to be a guy in the early second that they see as a first rounder and also likely a guy at a position of need (OL/DL/S).

I'd be all for it under the right circumstances. Short and Elam maybe. I'd say Floyd but he probably will be gone too early for any trade back. Maybe Cyprien rises high enough for us to love him in the early second.

At this point, who knows? Anyway, yes, I think it is totally realistic to think we'd do this.