Which Cowboy Veteran would you like to see in the HOF? - Page 4 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

TwoDeep3 · 02-12-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by percyhoward

See post #37

That proved your opinion is they deserved the Hall.

Now show me where the criteria you used is the basis for being selected to be voted on, and then being chosen to be enshrined in the Hall.

It is still hyperbole.

KJJ · 02-12-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes

Funny also that it didn't stop borderline guys from the 70's Vikings and 90's Bills teams from getting in.

Who were the borderline guys from the 70's Vikings? You have Alan Page, Carl Eller, Paul Krause and Fran Tarkenton I don't see any borderline Hall of Famers amongst that group. As for the 90's Bills you have Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, James Lofton and Thurman Thomas. Kelly and Thomas are borderline in my opinion. Thomas ranks 14th all time in career rushing yards.

He was a good all around back who produced on the ground and in the passing game but I don't think he had a Hall of Fame career in my opinion. He doesn't rank high enough in career rushing yards to be a Hall of Fame back. Edgerrin James had more career rushing yards than Thomas plus Thomas didn't produce hardly at all in 3 of his 4 SB appearances.

He had a great SB vs the Giants in 90 rushing for 138 yards and probably would have been the MVP had Buffalo won but he only produced 48 yards rushing in his next 3 SB appearances. Jim Kelly is also borderline he ranks 18th in career passing yards and his induction would have to be based on the fact he's the only QB to ever lead a team to 4 straight SB's.

Even though Buffalo lost them all the 90's Bills do have the distinction of being the only team in NFL history to ever reach 4 straight SB's so the Hall of Fame voters obviously felt that warranted Kelly's induction as well as Thurman Thomas. Bruce Smith was obviously a clear cut Hall of Fame player and James Lofton ranks 8th all time in receiving yards. His prime years were spent in Green Bay.

percyhoward · 02-12-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoDeep3

That proved your opinion is they deserved the Hall.

Now show me where the criteria you used is the basis for being selected to be voted on, and then being chosen to be enshrined in the Hall.

This is copied directly from the post..

Quote:

The minimum criteria were simply an AP 1st team All-Pro selection and 5 Pro Bowls. (An All-Decade Team selection could be substituted for the 5 Pro Bowls).

KJJ · 02-12-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes

Funny also that it didn't stop borderline guys from the 70's Vikings and 90's Bills teams from getting in.

I left out Ron Yary who went to 7 Pro Bowls and was named All Pro 6 consecutive years I don't see him as a borderline Hall of Famer.

FanSince61 · 02-12-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by percyhoward

I think there are many here (and some on the selection committee) who don't even know who Chuck Howley is.

There are now 24 linebackers in the HOF. Only 7 of the 24 were named 1st team All-Pro by the Associated Press more times than Howley. Besides being the only Super Bowl MVP with 5+ Pro Bowls who isn't in the Hall of Fame, and besides being a 5-time 1st team All-Pro, he is also the all-time Super Bowl leader in takeaways.

This ^^^^

If I had to pick one, it would be Chuck Howley.

rangers71 · 02-13-2013

Chuck Howley, Drew Pearson, and of course Captain Crash(He was an all decade team as well).

Nightshade · 02-13-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by percyhoward

Think again.

There are only two eligible players with more career INT than Walls who are not already in the HOF -- Ken Riley and Dave Brown. Neither one of those players ever won an interception title.

Walls won *three* interception titles.

Say what you will about his stats. He was great with the interceptions sure but I never saw a player get burned more that EW.

Probably because he was such an Int hound or maybe just that molasses slow speed of his. But I remember always watching opposing receivers light him up.

I used to call him burnt toast.

Diogenes · 02-13-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJJ

Who were the borderline guys from the 70's Vikings? You have Alan Page, Carl Eller, Paul Krause and Fran Tarkenton I don't see any borderline Hall of Famers amongst that group. As for the 90's Bills you have Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, James Lofton and Thurman Thomas. Kelly and Thomas are borderline in my opinion. Thomas ranks 14th all time in career rushing yards.

He was a good all around back who produced on the ground and in the passing game but I don't think he had a Hall of Fame career in my opinion. He doesn't rank high enough in career rushing yards to be a Hall of Fame back. Edgerrin James had more career rushing yards than Thomas plus Thomas didn't produce hardly at all in 3 of his 4 SB appearances.

[View Full Quote]

Compare Carl Eller's career accomplishments to those of Howley's. They are strikingly similar. Of couse Howley has a SB MVP on his resume that Eller doesn't. Howley also has a SB ring. If you don't think Eller was borderline, the HOF voters would disagree with you. He was the epitome of borderline as it took him over 12 times as a finalist to finally get voted in. If you believe Eller to be a shoo-in, Howley should be in. Period.

And yes, Kelly and Thomas are borderline. Particularly Thomas. We agree there. Most of Thomas' (relative) contemporaries who are above him on the all-time rushing list are in the HOF. Most of those below him on the list are not in.

KJJ · 02-13-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes

Compare Carl Eller's career accomplishments to those of Howley's. They are strikingly similar. Of couse Howley has a SB MVP on his resume that Eller doesn't. Howley also has a SB ring. If you don't think Eller was borderline, the HOF voters would disagree with you. He was the epitome of borderline as it took him over 12 times as a finalist to finally get voted in. If you believe Eller to be a shoo-in, Howley should be in. Period.

And yes, Kelly and Thomas are borderline. Particularly Thomas. We agree there. Most of Thomas' (relative) contemporaries who are above him on the all-time rushing list are in the HOF. Most of those below him on the list are not in.

I never claimed Eller was a "shoo-in" Hall of Famer and as you pointed out it took him over 12 times as a finalist to finally get in but many felt he should have gotten in sooner. He has the Vikings career record with 130 sacks. He posted 15+ sacks multiple times and was part of one of the greatest DL's in NFL history which was nicknamed the Purple People Eaters. The Vikings losing 3 SB's convincingly probably kept him from being voted in sooner. Defense won championship back in the 70's and there were a lot of great defensive players during that era especially amongst the great Steel Curtain who were winning 4 SB's in 6 years.

As for Howley playing on some real bad Cowboy teams early in his career and the Cowboys coming up short to the great Packers teams probably hurt him. Howley did win a SB MVP award but even he admitted the loss in SB V tarnished the award. The award was a great honor but it was tarnished by the loss. The Cowboys coming up short in championships clearly hurt Howley in my opinion plus there's been a lot of talent at LB through the years with several LB's with Hall of Fame credentials still on the outside.

Maxie Baughan was a 9 time pro bowler who some feel should be in the HOF. Robert Brazile was a Defensive Rookie of the Year, seven-time Pro Bowler and All-Decade selection in the '70s who has yet to be voted in the HOF. Kevin Greene who currently ranks third all-time in sacks has yet to get in. Andy Russell went to 7 pro bowls on some great Steelers championship teams and he isn't in the HOF. Randy Gradishar anchored the "Orange Crush" defense in the late '70s and he's not in the HOF. Dave Robinson who won three NFL championships with the Packers is a 2013 HOF inductee. It took all these years for him to get in.

There's been a wealth of talent at the LB position over the years and had Howley been apart of some great teams that weren't always coming up short he might have been voted in. Dave Robinson's induction is clearly due to the fact he played on Lombardi's great Packers teams.