Derrick Johnson highlight video

[Midswat]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

BTW, originally you posted:Indicating that every "stud" to come out of UT is a bust. I admit that not every Longhorn turned Pro has been a success. Do you wish to backtrack and admit that not every Longhorn turned Pro has been a bust or do you simply wish to remain wrong?

I don't wish to backtrack anything.

About 99% of Longhorn "studs" don't pan out . . .

And the ones you listed:

Earl Campbell was injury prone.
Jerry Gray . . . who?
Casey Hampton? Yeah, he plays in the NFL now. He's decent.
Priest Holmes? One of the one percent.
Bobby Layne? Vaguely rings a bell.
Steve McMichael? Average player on a great great Bears defense.
Eric Metcalf? Drafted as a wide receiver. Horrible wide receiver. Could only return punts. You can find 7th rounders to return punts.
Tommy Nobis? Who?
Jerry Sisemore? Yeah . . . he was great on Saving Private Ryan.
Ricky Williams? You really shouldn't have brought him up.
Roy Williams? 8 games into his rookie year and you're claiming him as a hero? A little desperate for names . . .eh? I could have listed Marcus Tubbs as a dud . . . but I figured it was too early in his career . . .

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Midswat

I don't wish to backtrack anything.

About 99% of Longhorn "studs" don't pan out . . .

When did 99 out of 100 come to represent the word "every"?

And the ones you listed:

Earl Campbell was injury prone.

He also has the 17th most rushing yards in League history.

Jerry Gray . . . who?

Played 9 seasons in the League as a DB, making 4 straight Pro Bowls from 1986-1989.

Casey Hampton? Yeah, he plays in the NFL now. He's decent.

Decent Players don't go to the Pro Bowl in only their third year in the League.

Priest Holmes? One of the one percent.

......and also one of the Top 5 RBs in the League.

Bobby Layne? Vaguely rings a bell.

Played 16 seasons at QB, making 5 Pro Bowls.

Steve McMichael? Average player on a great great Bears defense.

Average my ***, dude played for 15 seasons in the League and made it to 2 Pro Bowls. He was a big part in why Da Bears Defense was so dominating.

Eric Metcalf? Drafted as a wide receiver. Horrible wide receiver. Could only return punts. You can find 7th rounders to return punts.

You can't find one of the greatest return men in NFL History there though. Metcalf still holds the NFL Record for most Career Punt Returns for a TD with 10.

Tommy Nobis? Who?

Linebacker who played 11 seasons with Atlanta, making 5 Pro Bowls.

Jerry Sisemore? Yeah . . . he was great on Saving Private Ryan.

He was even better playing 12 seasons on the OL with Philly, making 2 Pro Bowls.

Ricky Williams? You really shouldn't have brought him up.

Say what you want about his character/off the field issues but he was one of the elite RBs in the game when he left and he'll be one of the elite RBs in the League when he comes back.

Roy Williams? 8 games into his rookie year and you're claiming him as a hero?

Nobody said he was a hero but being one of the top candidates for Rookie of the Year should count him exempt from the bust pile for now.

I could have listed Marcus Tubbs as a dud . . . but I figured it was too early in his career . . .

That and I don't think it's too horrible that he's running with the second team and seeing major action in only his first year in the League.

Anything else you care for me to shoot down?

[Midswat]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Anything else you care for me to shoot down?

You haven't shot anything down.

UT is a big time program . . . but they never accomplish anything . . . and their players very very very very rarely translate into success stories at the next level.

Now . . . the real UT (University of Tennesse) is a juggernaut of NFL talent.

And I don't have to bring up players who only succeeded as punt returners or some guy making the Pro Bowl twice in a 15 year career as an example.

Bottom line is . . . Texas players don't have a good history. And I'd rather not risk one of our high draft picks on a player that will more than likely bust.

Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Midswat

You haven't shot anything down.

I shot down all your remarks on those players.

UT is a big time program . . . but they never accomplish anything . . .

As of late, you are correct as the current tenure has yet to produce a Conference Championship or a National Championship.

and their players very very very very rarely translate into success stories at the next level.

Actually they do, see my above posts.

Now . . . the real UT (University of Tennesse) is a juggernaut of NFL talent.

I'm not going to sit here and knock Tennessee, as they have produced some damn fine Football Players (Manning, Witten, etc.) but many of the knocks aimed at Mack Brown were being said about Fulmer before he won a NC and they are starting to rear their ugly heads in Knoxville again.

And I don't have to bring up players who only succeeded as punt returners

Then that's idiocy on your part as any team in the NFL would kill to have an Eric Metcalf in his prime.

or some guy making the Pro Bowl twice in a 15 year career as an example.

That's still 2 more Pro Bowls and a Hell of a lot more seasons than most players in this League will ever see (a.k.a. he's not a bust).

Bottom line is . . . Texas players don't have a good history.

Disproved (see above).

And I'd rather not risk one of our high draft picks on a player that will more than likely bust.

Well Nostra , we'll just have to wait and see if DJ ends up a bust but some team is going to pay him Millions upon Millions upon Millions of dollars with the belief that he won't be.

Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

Doesn't hurt my feelings. If your dislike of a specific University is so great that you would pass on the Best Defensive Player in the Nation and a LB that has the greatest upside at his position seen in years, that's your problem.

[Midswat]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Disproved (see above). Well Nostra , we'll just have to wait and see if DJ ends up a bust but some team is going to pay him Millions upon Millions upon Millions of dollars with the belief that he won't be.

Cute nickname . . .

You always resort to namecallling when people share a different opinion than you?

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Doesn't hurt my feelings. If your dislike of a specific University is so great that you would pass on the Best Defensive Player in the Nation and a LB that has the greatest upside at his position seen in years, that's your problem.

Sure . . . doesn't hurt your feelings. Thats why you resort to namecalling like a little kid.

Sorry bro . . . I have nothing against the Univ of Texas. In fact . . . I root for them in most games, and I was hoping they'd beat Oklahoma this year.

But I don't let my fandom for a college blind my judgement.

UT players rarely make the impact expected of them.

Heck . . . UT is a big time program who has a rich tradition . . . yet you could only come up with 11 names, some who were very questionable, of players you considered to be NFL studs . . . and one was a rookie at that. And you had to get into the way-back machine with some of those names.

How many players does UT put into the draft each year?

And you could only come up with 11 names from 30+ years of drafting?

But yeah . . . that punt returner. He was awesome.

Nevermind that he didn't accomplish anything as a receiver.

When he was taking 13th overall . . . it was because they were drooling over his punt return capabilities.

Okay . . . .

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Midswat

Cute nickname . . .

You always resort to namecallling when people share a different opinion than you?

It's called a joke. Do you always get so sensitive when somebody makes one?

yet you could only come up with 11 names,

Actually I can come up with at least 28, all of whom have been to at least one Pro Bowl.

some who were very questionable, of players you considered to be NFL studs . . .

I keep harping on this but if you've made at least one Pro Bowl in your life that means you've had at least one great season. Add that to the fact that every player I listed had at least relatively long careers and I really don't see how you could label any of those a bust.

and one was a rookie at that.

Once again, I threw Roy's name out there only because he is one of the Top Candidates for Rookie of the Year and a WR that any team in the League would love to have. Not a bust.

And you had to get into the way-back machine with some of those names.

So we're putting a time limit on things now? That's interesting because, to reiterate, you said:

He's just going to be like every other UT "stud" and bust in the NFL . . .

So I assumed I could stretch things out a little bit, to as soon as Texas started putting players in the NFL.

How many players does UT put into the draft each year?

From when? Give me a starting year and I'll pull up an average.

And you could only come up with 11 names from 30+ years of drafting?

Nope, as I mentioned above, at least 28 (I'll post them if you really want me to).

But yeah . . . that punt returner. He was awesome.

Just because you don't care about a guy who played 13 Seasons, made 3 Pro Bowls, and holds a serious NFL Record doesn't mean he shouldn't/isn't respected along the same lines as Earl and Priest.

Nevermind that he didn't accomplish anything as a receiver.

Who gives a ****? The fact that he was one of the greatest players of All Time at only one position, we should reprimand him for it?

When he was taking 13th overall . . . it was because they were drooling over his punt return capabilities.

When he was drafted he was drafted as a RB. There were 3 other RBs taken ahead of him. Barry Sanders (that turned out pretty good), Tim Worley, and Sammie Smith. Those last 2 guys were out of the League by '94. Do you think that Miami or Pittsburgh would have taken Metcalf over either of those 2 guys knowing what they do now?

BTW, since you're so obsessed with Metcalf and his receiving capabilities, in 1995 Metcalf caught 104 passes (good enough for 7th in the League) for 1189 yards and 8 TDs. The only WR on the entire Cowboys roster who could match that would be Key's 2001 season and he had 7 fewer TDs. He also had at least 8 seasons of 40 catches or more. Granted, those aren't fantastic numbers but they're consistent. A consistent Receiving game to go along with one of the greatest Special Teams careers in League History? Sounds like a good player to me.

[Rack Bauer]

I don't think Texas' players are busts waiting to happen, but they sure aren't "The U" either.

I was very skeptical of Derrick Johnson at first. He was a great athlete, but not a great LB. Now, he's playing like a great LB, as well as using his athleticism.

I don't believe in not drafting a player just because of what school he goes to. If he looks to be a great player then I want to draft him. I don't care what school he goes to. Hell, people were knocking Terrell Suggs cuz of the past failures at DE they had that were drafted, but I wanted us to draft him anway. It was obvious he was no Shante Carver. And he's proven me right the past year and a half. I like Newman, but I would of loved to have Suggs too. Although I'm sure Zimmer would of found a way to ruin him.

[Midswat]

Roughneck . . .

UT players 90% of the time are BUSTS.

You've listed 11 players out of 30+ years of drafting . . .

If you can name 28 . . . that's super for you.

That is still a very small percentage of players that actually play in the NFL from UT.

Seriously bro . . . I didn't mean to get your feathers all ruffled.

Take a deep breath and count to ten . . .

It'll be alright.

[chicago JK]

nice research and response roughneck.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Rack

I don't think Texas' players are busts waiting to happen, but they sure aren't "The U" either.

Yeah but who is? Miami is a freaking NFL Factory.

I don't believe in not drafting a player just because of what school he goes to. If he looks to be a great player then I want to draft him. I don't care what school he goes to. Hell, people were knocking Terrell Suggs cuz of the past failures at DE they had that were drafted, but I wanted us to draft him anway. It was obvious he was no Shante Carver. And he's proven me right the past year and a half. I like Newman, but I would of loved to have Suggs too. Although I'm sure Zimmer would of found a way to ruin him.

There's a man who knows what he is talkking about.

UT players 90% of the time are BUSTS.

Okay, so first you say "every" indicating 100%, then you say 99%, and now you're saying 90%. Damn, you're backpeddaling faster than Deion ever could.

You've listed 11 players out of 30+ years of drafting . . .

If you can name 28 . . . that's super for you.

Not super, just facts.

That is still a very small percentage of players that actually play in the NFL from UT.

Care to name me some schools other than Miami or Tennessee that have had a better percentage? There are some out there but it is a real short list and I'd guarantee you that UT was in the Top 10.

Seriously bro . . . I didn't mean to get your feathers all ruffled.

Take a deep breath and count to ten . . .

It'll be alright.

Dude, I never take these thing too seriously. No matter what the topic, these are still discussions over a Message Board with people you'll probably never meet. I was just pointing out the flaws in your statement that:

He's just going to be like every other UT "stud" and bust in the NFL . . .

and by your rapidly dropping percentages on the matter I'd say that I've gotten it across quite well.

nice research and response roughneck.

Thanks. I'm certainly no AdamJT13 but I do what I can.

[InmanRoshi]

Can we not draft players from Florida State because of Andre Wadsworth, Jamal Reynolds, Reinard Wilson, Peter Warrick, Tommey Polley, Ron Dugans, Derrick Gibson, Marvin Minnis, Travis Minor, Chris Wienke, Casey Weldon, Tony Bryant, Larry Smith and Clay Shiver.

Of course ... we'd have to pass up on Derrick Brooks, Deion Sanders, Peter Boulware, Lav Coles, on and on and on.

The whole idea of not picking players based on what other players from their University did is about as scientific way to look at things as a blindfolded monkey randomly throwing darts at a board.

[Midswat]

Roughneck . . .

Texas players are not good NFL players . . .

Deal with it . . .

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Midswat

Roughneck . . .

Texas players are not good NFL players . . .

Deal with it . . .

Having basically had everyone of your ideas crushed, you must now resort to a mindless, generalized statement which has been proven incorrect over and over and over again on this thread?

What a pitiful, non-logistic way to finish an argument.

[Midswat]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Having basically had everyone of your ideas crushed, you must now resort to a mindless, generalized statement which has been proven incorrect over and over and over again on this thread?

What a pitiful, non-logistic way to finish an argument.

You didn't "crush" any of my "ideas".

I'm of the opinion that the majority of UT players that enter the NFL don't amount to jack crap.

You gave me 11 names (most questionable at that) defending your obvious blind loyalty to your favorite college team. Oh . . . and I can't forget the threat to name 28 "if I really wanted you to".

So 28 names (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, despite your obvious reaches in the initial 11 you listed) in 56+ years of drafting.

Thats impressive.

Wait . . . no it isn't.

That basically proves my point.

Do you realize there have been almost 100 players taken from the University of Texas since 1982?

But you could only come up with "28" players going all the way back to the 1948 draft with Bobby Layne.

Well . . . unfortunately for you . . . there have been 283 total players selected from the University of Texas in the history of the draft.

~scratches head~

~breaks out calculator~

~scribbles on scratch paper~

~consults with mathematical wiz Stephen Hawkins~

It would appear that just slightly over 90% of players from the University of Texas amount to nothing more than a steaming pile of dung.

And thats being generous . . . assuming some of the phantom 17 you've been so gracious not to list weren't all world special teamers or made a Pro Bowl appearance in a two decade career!!!!!

So Roughy . . . was I off when I said "every" UT stud was a bust? Sure . . . but that was a general statement that I didn't really expect anyone to take literally.

So yeah . . . I was wrong about that. It appears only 90% of those players are garbage.

Now . . . you'll have to excuse me for not particularly liking those odds.

No thank you.

I'll pass.

I think Florida quarterbacks and Penn State runningbacks almost have better odds . . .

Your college team sucks at developing NFL talent.

But don't fret over that.

Concentrate on trying to stay competitive with Okalahoma first . . .

[Roughneck]

Alright, I was hoping it wouldn't end in such a fashion. The post you made was pretty good but still quite a few holes never the less. Let me point them out to you.

Originally Posted by Midswat

You didn't "crush" any of my "ideas".

I'm of the opinion that the majority of UT players that enter the NFL don't amount to jack crap.

What, no percentages? Has the number dropped so far that you can only give out a "majority" now?

You gave me 11 names (most questionable at that)

None questionable, all Pro Bowlers.

defending your obvious blind loyalty to your favorite college team.

I am loyal to Texas but every single stat I've handed out was truthful and would still be even if I was a fan of another school.

Oh . . . and I can't forget the threat to name 28 "if I really wanted you to".

Well since you want me to, here are the names (in alphabetical order):

Bertelsen, Jim
Brackens, Tony
Bradley, Bill
Brooks, Leo
Campbell, Earl
Clayborn, Raymond
Dillon, Bobby
English, Doug
Gray, Jerry
Hampton, Casey
Holmes, Priest
Hughes, Bill
Koy, Ernie
Lammons, Pete
Landry, Tom
Lansford, Buck
Layne, Bobby
Massey, Carlton
McFadin, Bud
McMichael, Steve
Metcalf, Eric
Nobis, Tommy
Sauer, George
Sewell, Harley
Sisemore, Jerry
Talbert, Diron
Tubbs, Winfred
Williams, Ricky

So 28 names (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, despite your obvious reaches in the initial 11 you listed) in 56+ years of drafting.

Thats impressive.

Wait . . . no it isn't.

Show me a list of schools that have that many Pro Bowlers in their Program's History? If Texas isn't in the Top 10, I'll stop my argument right now.

Well . . . unfortunately for you . . . there have been 283 total players selected from the University of Texas in the history of the draft.

~scratches head~

~breaks out calculator~

~scribbles on scratch paper~

~consults with mathematical wiz Stephen Hawkins~

It would appear that just slightly over 90% of players from the University of Texas amount to nothing more than a steaming pile of dung.

First things first, I'd like to see the percentages of other schools (how many drafted, how many pro bowlers, what's their average career span) but I realize that's probably too big of a task but, as I've mentioned before, I doubt there are many schools that have produced better than what has come from the 40.

Secondly, just because a player isn't a household name doesn't mean he was a bust. Most of that 283 were taken in the late rounds and weren't expected to be great (if they were, they'd have been drafted higher). If even 20% of those players lasted in the League for over 5 years, that is a major accomplishment, considering where they were drafted, and none of them could be a considered a bust. So to say that "over 90% of players from the University of Texas amount to nothing more than a steaming pile of dung" is a bit skewed considering that most of them weren't even expected to live up to the standards of dung.

And thats being generous . . . assuming some of the phantom 17 you've been so gracious not to list weren't all world special teamers or made a Pro Bowl appearance in a two decade career!!!!!

This again? Already shot it down, see page 1.

So Roughy . . . was I off when I said "every" UT stud was a bust? Sure . . . but that was a general statement that I didn't really expect anyone to take literally.

Dude, this is a message board. We can't see your facial expressions on our screen or hear your tone of voice through our speakers. If you type something out and it doesn't have a smilie or even the slightest tinge of sarcasm in it (yours didn't), it's going to get taken literally. Don't type it if you don't mean it.

So yeah . . . I was wrong about that. It appears only 90% of those players are garbage.

Once again, what you equate as garbage, I see as dozens of players who had long careers in the League, several of whom made it to Pro Bowls and made a good living in a Profession that spits players out all too quickly.

Now . . . you'll have to excuse me for not particularly liking those odds.

No thank you.

I'll pass.

I think Florida quarterbacks and Penn State runningbacks almost have better odds . . .

Good you go ahead and do that but, oh wait, you don't have a job with the Cowboys organization do you? So if Dallas happens to pick up DJ next year in the Draft, what are you gonna do? Will you protest?

Your college team sucks at developing NFL talent.

The current Coaching Staff sucks at developing College Talent let alone NFL Talent. Overall, they've done a pretty good job by my numbers.

But don't fret over that.

Concentrate on trying to stay competitive with Okalahoma first . . .

Not my job bra, that responsibility falls on Mack's shoulders and once OU beats Texas again next season, hopefully Texas can hire a Coach that can win even one freaking Conference Championship.