Boom or Bust in 04: Joey Harringon and David Carr

[AJM1613]

Originally Posted by RCowboyFan

their WRs were worst in the league.

I wouldn't say that...

[jay cee]

Originally Posted by RCowboyFan

Ironic thing is, most of the Quincy fans will be up in arms about going with just Stats. But will easily point at stats when its other teams QBs.

First of all if anyone has seen Lions last year, ought to know, their WRs were worst in the league. RBs also were even worse than Hambone seems like. All together, Lions led the league in dropped passes last year. How the heck is Harrington going to succeed with that?

Now Harrington, barring injuries, will have excellent Offensive weapons. Its not just me, but even Troy said when he did one of their games, that Harrington will be a star if he has enough weapons.

Carr, I am not too sure. I dont think Carr will be more than above Average QB. He had weapons last year, more than Harrington had anyway, but still wasn't that great. Although, you can't compare Houston texans team with Cowboys in terms of talent yet.

[View Full Quote]Anyway, I expect Harrington to have breakout year, as long as the team is fairly injury free. Lions are the worst team in terms of injury last 4 or 5 years, so I have doubts if that will change this year. Its as bad as Cowboys were in terms of injuries during 2000-2002 seasons.

In other words, no one KNOWS how Carter, Carr or Harrington will turn out. I think that was what the original poster was getting at.

[RCowboyFan]

Originally Posted by AJM1613

I wouldn't say that...

Please, last opinion I need to hear is from a Eagle fan who McChoke is Top 5 QB in this league. Oh I forget, its all the WRs fault that McNabb is not top 5 QB in stats etc

[RCowboyFan]

Originally Posted by jay cee

In other words, no one KNOWS how Carter, Carr or Harrington will turn out. I think that was what the original poster was getting at.

Nope, I didn't say that, if you bothered to read my post properly in context. I think Harrington will be Star QB with the Weapons he has now.

Carr I am not sure, Quincy I am sure will not be a Star QB. He at most maybe a Average QB. I know, you dont have to tell me his stats or games he won or how much difficult time he has had in this league. Or that I simply hate him to not to give him a chance. You can feed me the crow when Quincy proves me wrong

[AJM1613]

Originally Posted by RCowboyFan

Please, last opinion I need to hear is from a Eagle fan who McChoke is Top 5 QB in this league. Oh I forget, its all the WRs fault that McNabb is not top 5 QB in stats etc

James Thrash < Charles Rogers

[jay cee]

Originally Posted by RCowboyFan

Nope, I didn't say that, if you bothered to read my post properly in context. I think Harrington will be Star QB with the Weapons he has now.

Carr I am not sure, Quincy I am sure will not be a Star QB. He at most maybe a Average QB. I know, you dont have to tell me his stats or games he won or how much difficult time he has had in this league. Or that I simply hate him to not to give him a chance. You can feed me the crow when Quincy proves me wrong

Yeah, I worded that wrong Rcowboyfan. But my point was that we are all guessing. I think Carr will be better than Harrington and Carter. But I don't know. No one does. Many people have pointed at Carters stats as proof that he should be replaced.

The original poster pointed out two high draft picks that have worse stats than Carter, and It does not look as if their teams are ready to dump them yet. Nor should they be IMO.

[Tio]

So, because they were first round puicks they get more excuses than quincy? That is a very biased opinion imo. I guess the browns sticking with couch was a good idea huh?

[RCowboyFan]

Originally Posted by AJM1613

James Thrash < Charles Rogers

And if you bothered to check Lions season last year, Rogers only played about 6 games or so I think. He was throwing to Bill Schroeder, Hakim and even Wrs picked off the street starting or getting a chance sometimes.

Rogers when he played was definetly good. But RB was just horrible, comparable to Cowboys Rbs. If they won a game, it was solely due to Harrington having a good game or somehow Defense played decent enough that week. The best D game was Thanksgiving by their D.

Pinner showed promise last two games, but still too many doubts about him, thats why they took Kevin Jones.

Harrington main fault always has been that he just doesn't allow sacks. I.e. at any cost gets rid of the ball, with great quick release and many times that also causes interceptions since Play never developed. He started avoiding that towards the end of season, hence the whole team played much better last 3-4 games especially. But another drawback to Harrington is also that he doesn't have better than Avg arm most likely. Thats why I think he really fits the WCO offense.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by ghettogandhi

have you guys lost your minds- these were both top 3 picks in the draft playing on an expansion team and what could be called the worst team of the last three years. Both of these qbs have strong arms, are mobile and are by all accounts fierce competitors and leaders. Drew is the only QB on our team with a comparable upside or potential.

Please lets make realistic assesments of talent- you cannot simply go off of statistics to help prove your point- especially with the qb position.....if that was the case then Peyton Manning two years ago-when he had over 25 ints- should have been on the "hot seat".

Sorry brother but that dog dont hunt.
Potential only buys you so much time and that time is drawing near for both youngsters. The Lions have already replaced the offensive staff and both teams have added as much weaponry as possible around the QBs. At some point they have to change QBs.

Lots of 1st round, top 10 QBs were el busto and teams arent going to wait 7 years to discover that. How many years did Shuler, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer et al get?

QC has been better thus far. You are certianly allowed to note his team as being better IF, and only IF you also note his team is far worse than most QBs you want to compare him with.

QC should be getting compared to ONLY QBs with the same level of experience and time of service in the NFL but that would be fair and why would anyone consider being far?

This is the year for a lot of QBs to either spit the bit or to get it. And QC is one of those guys. Its fair to add Carr and Harrington to that list.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by RCowboyFan

And if you bothered to check Lions season last year, Rogers only played about 6 games or so I think. He was throwing to Bill Schroeder, Hakim and even Wrs picked off the street starting or getting a chance sometimes.

Rogers when he played was definetly good. But RB was just horrible, comparable to Cowboys Rbs. If they won a game, it was solely due to Harrington having a good game or somehow Defense played decent enough that week. The best D game was Thanksgiving by their D.

Pinner showed promise last two games, but still too many doubts about him, thats why they took Kevin Jones.

[View Full Quote]Harrington main fault always has been that he just doesn't allow sacks. I.e. at any cost gets rid of the ball, with great quick release and many times that also causes interceptions since Play never developed. He started avoiding that towards the end of season, hence the whole team played much better last 3-4 games especially. But another drawback to Harrington is also that he doesn't have better than Avg arm most likely. Thats why I think he really fits the WCO offense.

Harrington was never worth a top 20 pick.
He played in an offense first division in college and had inflated stats. Note McNown came out of the same division with much the same rep and busted. He was never as gifted athletically as touted to be. He is a decent athlete but is very thin and inaccurate when passing. He is a good leader but doesnt always back up the hype. His decision-making has been horrid. Many Lions fans prefer McMahon already.

Harrington could redeem himself but I find it unlikely. The WCO demands a high completion percenateg and Harrington had the worst among QBs int hat offense by about 10 % points last season over QBs with over 100 pass attempts.

Shroeder and Hakim are decent enough pros as 2nd and 3rd WRs.

[ghst187]

i think Harrington is definitely on the hot seat this year. Roy Williams, Charles Rogers, Kevin Jones....if he doesn't at least do some things to give the fans/team hope then Detroit will be looking for someone new.
I think Carr is safe for one more season unless he really, really stinks it up. I think Harrington will have more toys than Carr and therefore, less excuses.
Nonetheless, we are comparing cellar-dwellar teams to the Cowboys. We have a higher standard. We also have a different system. I think our system this past season was pretty protective of QC and he still didn't play up to an acceptable level. He'll have a significantly higher level of talent and better OL this year too so if he doesn't do it and do it in a big way.....cya. We're expecting to go to the Super Bowl in the next 2-4 years, the Lions and Texans are just HOPING to be a respectable team in the next 2-4 years.
I expect us to have a much better and consistent running threat as well as better OL protection. QC has to prove that he can read a defense, not lock onto a receiver, and throw accurately, none of which he has done well consistently. That's a lot to ask to improve upon in just a few offseasons when its apparent that he doesn't have the mental capacity or talent level to get there.
But alas, QC wasn't a top 6, first round pick either. He was aptly a projected 4th rounder. I think that QC sucks but wouldn't really consider him a "bust" since we didn't sink a first pick or the TOP PICK of the draft on him. Detriot and Houston put a lot of stock in their respective QB's at the expense of a near-surefire star at another position. We (mistakingly) drafted QC to be a backup and possibly the future starter based on how he developed. Carr and Harrington were drafted to BE the franchise. But also, you're comparing QB's with much less talent around them to QC who has SOME talent around him and certainly the best coach. If you want to talk stats of Harrington and Carr, pull up Aikman's first few year's stats, not so great. He turned out okay though. Aikman's first few years are a more fair comparison because we were in the cellar at that time like Houston and Detriot are now and all three were top picks.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Sorry brother but that dog dont hunt.

QC should be getting compared to ONLY QBs with the same level of experience and time of service in the NFL but that would be fair and why would anyone consider being far?

This is the year for a lot of QBs to either spit the bit or to get it. And QC is one of those guys. Its fair to add Carr and Harrington to that list.

Then hunt the dog.

No offense JT, but those last 2 paragraphs contradict each other. First it is your contention that Q should ONLY be compared to QBs with the same level of experience, meaning QBs who are enterring their 4th year.

Carr and Harrington are enterring their 3rd years. Therefore it is unfair to compare them to Q by these standards.

QBs with less than 3 years experience are routinely called busts on this forum. Q is the only QB with his tenure that it is taboo to call a bust. Just the facts.

Therefore it IS fair to compare Q to Brees and Vick. QBs with the same experience level.

It is therefore unfair to say Brees is a bust, Carr, Hutch, or Harrington are busts, etc. After all, it takes 4 years for a QB to develop in the NFL.

Holla if you hear me.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by ghst187

But alas, QC wasn't a top 6, first round pick either. He was aptly a projected 4th rounder. I think that QC sucks but wouldn't really consider him a "bust" since we didn't sink a first pick or the TOP PICK of the draft on him.

That I do agree with. I have never called him a bust. To be a bust you have to have high expectations.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Then hunt the dog.

No offense JT, but those last 2 paragraphs contradict each other. First it is your contention that Q should ONLY be compared to QBs with the same level of experience, meaning QBs who are enterring their 4th year.

Carr and Harrington are enterring their 3rd years. Therefore it is unfair to compare them to Q by these standards.

QBs with less than 3 years experience are routinely called busts on this forum. Q is the only QB with his tenure that it is taboo to call a bust. Just the facts.

Therefore it IS fair to compare Q to Brees and Vick. QBs with the same experience level.

It is therefore unfair to say Brees is a bust, Carr, Hutch, or Harrington are busts, etc. After all, it takes 4 years for a QB to develop in the NFL.

Holla if you hear me.

Actually I routinely compare QC to Brees and Vick who were drafted earlier in the same draft. You can Add Tui of the Raiders for the 3 who went before QC. Add up their victory total and they might have QC by a couple.

Carr and Harrington are entering the year QC just finished. QC took his team which won 5 games 3 years in a row to the playoffs. Had the the team won 5 games again he woulda been gone. QC didnt solidify himself as a franchise guy but he did earn the right to come back as the starter and prove he could drive the bus to the playoffs as BP asked of him last year.

Now you do the hollering. lol.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Actually I routinely compare QC to Brees and Vick who were drafted earlier in the same draft. You can Add Tui of the Raiders for the 3 who went before QC. Add up their victory total and they might have QC by a couple.

Carr and Harrington are entering the year QC just finished. QC took his team which won 5 games 3 years in a row to the playoffs. Had the the team won 5 games again he woulda been gone. QC didnt solidify himself as a franchise guy but he did earn the right to come back as the starter and prove he could drive the bus to the playoffs as BP asked of him last year.

Now you do the hollering. lol.

Doesn't change the contradiction, but I still luv ya.