Hutch's is getting better, but..... - Page 7 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Hostile · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayne_motley

Hutch was the guy who could have been a top pick if he'd stayed with football...my guess is he'll go back to the Cardinals and play minor league baseball...the man had a 95 mph fastball, and the Cards didn't want to lose him when he came to football.

Now Henson is the guy who could have been a top pick had he stuck with football...and of course, every expert here will quote numerous sources that his situation is nothing like Chad's because Henson is a guaranteed star.

Yeah, okay....whatever....I'm not holding my breath.

Are you thinking I am? Or are you holding yours that Carter will one day get it?

I seem to recall a Sporting News scouting report that said Carter was the next best option to Vick being all the rage on the old forum. Yet suddenly the scouting reports on Henson are inaccurate?

Exactly how am I supposed to digest that dichotomy? I ask because I know how I want to, but I am afraid of stating the obvious for fear it will ignite a war.

Charles · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamJT13

I disagree. Rivers didn't do anything special. And Davey put up some good stats, but he didn't look better than Hutchinson to me. He just had a much better offense. Berlin's running backs rushed for 120 yards on 24 carries (5.0 per carry). Rhein's rushed for 16 yards on 10 carries (1.6 per carry). Davey and Rivers were under pressure only a handful of times all game -- but they were sacked four times and fumbled twice (with one fumble turning into a 16-yard gain). Hutchinson was under much greater pressure and did a good job of moving away from it when possible (only two sacks). If you watch the game again, watch how many times Berlin's receivers were wide-open downfield (quite often) and how many times Davey or Rivers completed a pass against tight coverage (not often), then compare that to Hutchinson. Davey should have had several passes picked off, while Hutchinson's only interception went right through his receiver's hands.

So would you consider Rivers picking up a fumble and being heady enough to run for a big gain, 1st down and subsequently the biggest play in the scoring drive (that put the game away) SPECIAL. I would for NFLE standards.

Would a consider a back-up QB guiding the offense to 13 points (for the opportunity to play in the NFLE SuperBowl) after the starter is bench whilst the opposition is making a feverish come back SPECIAL. I would for NFLE standards. .

Chad has shown flashes. This was a great opportunity for him to show well against the best QB in NFLE. Davey came close to throwing INTS, but he didn’t. If they counted then many successful QBs would not be where they are today. Davey put up 17 points early to lead his team to the NFLE World bowl, couple that with his great play throughout the season, sadly Chad doesn’t even compare. Chad put his team in the hole early with the fumble. He might have been flawless in his passes during the game, but he still contributed negatively and his team lost, Davey and Rivers contributed negatively but were able to overcome and be successful.

I agree that the Berlin Thunder are a better team. They are an NFLE Dynasty. I agree that Chad supporting cast is not as good, but it doesn’t excuse his very poor internal clock. He senses pressure late. He throws poorly with bodies flying around him (typical in the NFL). Davey and Rivers might have their own problems, but they appeared IMHO more in rhythm and confident in their play, maybe the poor Rhein defense had something to do with their play. Rohan Davey has been destroying NFLE defenses. This was his worst game. Rivers looked sharp with extend play time.

We can agree to disagree. I agree that Chad is working with much less, he might be a better NFL prospect than Davey and Rivers, but after watching that GAME, its my opinion that Chad was the 3rd best QB for those 60 minutes.

ChrisFul · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbair1967

you could say the same for the passing game...other than our WR's and a TE we had nothing worth a dang at the skill positions

your probably right that nobody was quaking in their boots over Hambrick, but they damn sure werent hiding their head in the ground over Q either

David

That's true as well, but my point was about our rushing attack. I didnt mention anything about our passing game.

Dallas finished 12th in both rushing yards and rushing average per game in the NFL. That's solid. However, if you dig deeper, you will realize that this is MERELY because we had so many rushing attempts. We ranked 4th in rushing ATTEMPTS with 515.

Our team average of 3.9 per carry ranks near the bottom of the NFL.

It doesnt take a genius to figure out our running game was pretty close to being poor last season. If it wasn't, we wouldnt be looking at J Jones as our new starting tailback.

We finished the year with 510 pass attempts. so 515 rushes, 510 passes. That's balance. What does this all mean?

That the running game was poor all season without defenses selling out against it. If that were the case, we'd have seen more pass attempts.

BlindFaith · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brokejumper

Hmm... are you really this hung up on Carter to throw out this kind of logic?

Yes, Hutch is being protected by 5th-string guards and throwing to scrubs, but those scrubs are matched up against a bunch of other scrubs. Remember those guys over on the other side of the ball? They are long-shot projects as well.

There are no real 'excuses' being thrown around for anyone that I see. The traits of the players are what they are. Chad's greatest problem has been his lack of playing speed and his inability to protect the ball. The second seems to be improving, but I am rather concerned about his playing speed. I am just not sure if he will ever be able to speed up his game enough to be a true NFL starter.

NFLE, if nothing else, is a couple steps slower then anything you will see in the NFL. If a guy with playing speed problems can not make it over there, what makes us think he will make it over here?

Don't pretend to be so naive. You know as well as I do that those supporting Carter want to blame everyone else under the sun for why he sucks. Yet those same people are roasting Chad for what he has or hasn't done in Europe...and most of them probably haven't even seen him play.

Now I haven't seen him play either. That's why I haven't chimed in on any of this. But when I read completely different perspectives of how he as been playing form those who have seen him play, I begin to question some of the views being presented by the Q fan club.

Now, regarding the receivers and the other "talent" surrounding Hutch.

If the guy that you are throwing to simply cant or wont catch a ball, then there is little that a QB can do. He can't throw it AND catch it.

How many dropped balls has he had?

How many of the interceptions have been because the receiver ran the wrong route or let the ball slip through his hands?

As for the fumbles...it has been mentioned by those who have watched the games that Hutch has been credited for fumbles that he shouldn't have.

Quincy had receivers. Glenn, Galloway, Bryant, Whitten, Anderson. Those guys could at least catch the ball...if Quincy got it there.

Hutch is throwing to guys that aren't anywhere near that level. His passes have to be right on the money other wise there is no chance of a completion.

Yet, Hutch has a much higher completion percentage and higher QB rating. He has more touchdowns than he does interceptions.

A QB can not win games by himself...consistantly. I will not consider Hutch a bust just because they don't go to the World Bowl.

I want to see some consistency from him. He has now had back to back solid performances. If he continues to show this type of improvement through the remaining games, he should be given every chance at starting and put to rest any thought of bringing in some over the hill vet. Unless of course Carter is the one cut.

dbair1967 · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisFul

That's true as well, but my point was about our rushing attack. I didnt mention anything about our passing game.

Dallas finished 12th in both rushing yards and rushing average per game in the NFL. That's solid. However, if you dig deeper, you will realize that this is MERELY because we had so many rushing attempts. We ranked 4th in rushing ATTEMPTS with 515.

Our team average of 3.9 per carry ranks near the bottom of the NFL.

It doesnt take a genius to figure out our running game was pretty close to being poor last season. If it wasn't, we wouldnt be looking at J Jones as our new starting tailback.

We finished the year with 510 pass attempts. so 515 rushes, 510 passes. That's balance. What does this all mean?

That the running game was poor all season without defenses selling out against it. If that were the case, we'd have seen more pass attempts.

we didnt have more pass attempts because the guy calling the plays had little confidence in the QB's ability to avoid mistakes. If the run game was so poor (as you claim) anybody calling plays would have decided to throw more

the fact of the matter is the run game was equally as bad as the passing game, and the passing game was responsible for the vast majority of this teams (excesssive) turnovers...we replaced the RB, replacing the QB is next and will happen sooner rather than later

David

dbair1967 · 05-17-2004

[quote=ChrisFul]

It doesnt take a genius to figure out our running game was pretty close to being poor last season.
QUOTE]

and it also doesnt take a genius to figure out that a QB that has a 70 or lower QB rating in the majority of games is playing poor either

Hambrick was a lousy starting RB, but he was no worse a RB than Carter was at QB...I really dont recall Hambrick single handedly blowing any games for us, but I do very vividly recall Carter playing atrociously in several games where the defense did more than enough to win the game

David

aikemirv · 05-17-2004

Or, did we just continue to run the ball because BP had very little confidence in QC?

The only way we had a chance to win the TOP game was to run the ball and pass as little as possible.

Look again at the NO game last year. We could have won that game with our normal style of play - the game did not matter - BP took that opportunity to see if QC could win the game with his arm.

We lost.

BP did not have confidence in QC last year and it showed in a lot of the play calling . That is my opinion though - like someone said , we as fans do not get the opportunity to see the game film that the coaches see, we do not know who is the primary receiver on each play and where the play is supposed to go. We don't get to see whether everyone was covered, the exact defense they were playing and who was the open guy that was missed.

It is a guessing game a lot of the time for the fan because TV does not show the entire field.

An NFL QB should have success against base defenses - not only when someone committs to stopping the run!

**jobberone** · 05-17-2004

The only reason to get rid of any of the three project QBs is to either make up your mind they are no longer projects but rejects or you have to have a QB that can backup you up all the way to the SB. Otherwise you are folding too early.

Maybe Steve Beuerlein is capable of coming off the bench and making a run. Is he available or retiring. Gannon could do it if he can be had as well. Are there any others? Vinny is not that guy IMO altho I think he would have a positive affect on QC as well as the others.

I am not saying we can't go to the SB BTW. I just see us as very very long shots but we've got a shot.

Hostile · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by aikemirv

I wish I could put it on my liscense plate but I can only have 7 letters in Va

I might be able to get it here in Arizona. I had a buddy who had one that was ASU SUX. He used to give copies to people and report it stolen.

No, I do not have one.

blindzebra · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisFul

Oh this is rich.

Is that not an NFLe defense hutch is playing against? Oh right, i'll bet its secretly the '00 Ravens Defense in disguise!

Rohan Davey is playing with absolute scrubs as well. And he's tearing up NFL Europe. What was your point again?

Its EUROPE. If Hutch can't be any better than MEDIOCRE in europe, how the HELL do you expect him to be anything more in the NF-FREAKING L.

When/if Chad puts up back to back good performances in the NFL (note: no little "e" on the end of that) THEN he'll get some credit. Hell, If he has ONE good performance ill give him some credit. As of yet he's got two good to decent games in NFL Europe against highschoolers. Color me unimpressed.

Once again, remember this is EUROPE. Hutch is supposed to be a prospective NFL starter; and he's getting outplayed by NFL 2nd and 3rd stringers in NFL europe.

Sit for a second and let that sink in.

Hutchinson had 3 good games in 2002 in the NFL, notice no little e, and two of those were in back to back wins.

What was that point again.

dbair1967 · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Hutchinson had 3 good games in 2002 in the NFL, notice no little e, and two of those were in back to back wins.

What was that point again.

that was 3 out 9 too...

Q had 3 good games out of 17 last yr

David

blindzebra · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbair1967

that was 3 out 9 too...

Q had 3 good games out of 17 last yr

David

Carter had 4 good games statistically, QB rating over 80 in home games against AZ, CAR, and NYG and at Detroit.

I'd give him the NYG road game as well, even though his QB rating was not great.

ChrisFul · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Hutchinson had 3 good games in 2002 in the NFL, notice no little e, and two of those were in back to back wins.

What was that point again.

Which games were those?

The 300 yard game which we lost and he turned the ball over 3 times?

The game where he threw for 208 yards while leading us to a 9-7 defeat at the hands of the Lions?

The only game i can see where he played anything CLOSE to "well" was against the skins in week 13 of 2002, where he threw for 2 TDs and no ints. I dont recall any fumbles, though he WAS under 50% completion for that game.

That was the point.

You failed to make one.

Look no further than his final statline. Fairly poor, i might add. And now he's doing so-so in NFL Europe. What makes you think he's going to be successful in the NFL anytime soon?

ChrisFul · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbair1967

that was 3 out 9 too...

Q had 3 good games out of 17 last yr

David

Hutch in 2002 - 2-7

Dallas Cowboys 2003 10-7 QB play might not have been good, but it was good enough. That wasn't the case in 2002. Our Offense dropped from middle of the pack to almost DEAD LAST when hutch was inserted. Good games my eye.

Also, please look at these stats (no fumbles recorded on espn's statpage) and tell me how many of these games are "good" to you. I see maybe one, with a few decent ones.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/player...6148&year=2002

I don't even see how this is a debateable topic anyways. If Hutch was so damn good, why the hell is he in EUROPE being outplayed by the likes of CLINT STOERNER of all people?

blindzebra · 05-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisFul

Hutch in 2002 - 2-7

Dallas Cowboys 2003 10-7

Also, please look at these stats (no fumbles recorded on espn's statpage) and tell me how many of these games are "good" to you. I see maybe one, with a few decent ones.

I don't even see how this is a debateable topic anyways. If Hutch was so damn good, why the hell is he in EUROPE being outplayed by the likes of CLINT STOERNER of all people?

Your Hutch hate is showing.

1. Stoerner is not outplaying him.

2. 2-7 was all Hutchinson's fault, and 10-7 is all because of Carter, RIGHT!

3. You said let him show it in the NFL, I used a QB rating of 80 as a bench mark and gave you 3, including consectutive games.

You made an overblown statement and got called, deal with it.