Saints resign DE Tony Bryant to 1.5 mil 2 year

[Nors]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?...nfl&id=1867840

[BigSaint8050]

Originally Posted by St. Richard

One other thing I'd like to address -- Howard would not be the backup if he starts the 2005 season with the Saints. He would be the starter and Smith would rotate in with Grant and Howard to give them a breather.

Exactly.....

As for the 3-4 Haslett has said several times, mostly last year after drafting Will Smith, that they had no desire to use the 3-4 as their base defense as it would severely handicap their playmakers on defense (Will Smith, Charles Grant, Darren Howard). However he did like the idea of using the hybrid 3-4 in certain situations.

Their form of the 3-4 defense was used primarily on 3rd and long to create pressure and to get their three big playmakers up front, Charles Grant, Darren Howard and Will Smith, on the field at the same time.
In this formation it had Charles Grant playing on the end with Darren Howard and Brian Young playing down, with Smith a rushing backer. Sometimes Will was standing up making this look similar to the 3-4 but a lot of times this defense had a base 4 down line with Grant and Smith on the outside and Darren and Young playing the DT's. This version was more greatly used and created a lot of pressure for the Saints down the streach.

I am not saying the Saints will not trade him, as I have been saying since they drafted Smith last year that he would be. Only that they are not desperate to do so. They probably won't make too many more moves before the draft as far as free agents go and they have enough cap room to sign all of their rookie contracts. They are not desperate to the point that they will cave in. As I said before thier are plenty of teams still interested in aquiring Howard (Dallas, Minnesota, Washington, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Green Bay, etc.), even though some are not as interested as the others. Dallas still is not the only suitor out there and thus can't just make thier own price.

I do think that this deal will get done, though it may not be in Dallas. I do think the Saints will get close to what they are asking for, they definitly will not get the short end of the deal. They want fair asking price for Howard, though it is yet to be determined what that is. Personally a late 1st round or a 2nd and a player is what I see happening with this. I do think it would benifit Dallas if Darren was in the Lone Star State lined up next to Glover, Ellis and Ferguson. I don't think there is a defensive end in the draft that is hands down better or even close to Howard, though there are a couple with the potential to be. Dallas would get a proven player in Howard with the ability to rush the passer, put up double digit sack years, play the run and make everyone on the lines job a little easier while doing so. Offensive lines couldn't key on Glover anymore as they have been doing for the last couple of years. Heck if this would happen I could see Ellis, Glover and Howard having double digit, or close to it years.

[Compacity]

I think I know why Saints signed this good DE.. probably because they think that Dallas Cowboys going to trade for Darren Howard...

[St. Richard]

I agree with everything you said BigSaint. Dallas seems like such a good fit for Howard.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by St. Richard

I agree with everything you said BigSaint. Dallas seems like such a good fit for Howard.

You know you just broke a heart with that. Shame on ya.

[Nors]

Originally Posted by BigSaint8050

Exactly.....

As for the 3-4 Haslett has said several times, mostly last year after drafting Will Smith, that they had no desire to use the 3-4 as their base defense as it would severely handicap their playmakers on defense (Will Smith, Charles Grant, Darren Howard). However he did like the idea of using the hybrid 3-4 in certain situations.

Their form of the 3-4 defense was used primarily on 3rd and long to create pressure and to get their three big playmakers up front, Charles Grant, Darren Howard and Will Smith, on the field at the same time.
[View Full Quote]In this formation it had Charles Grant playing on the end with Darren Howard and Brian Young playing down, with Smith a rushing backer. Sometimes Will was standing up making this look similar to the 3-4 but a lot of times this defense had a base 4 down line with Grant and Smith on the outside and Darren and Young playing the DT's. This version was more greatly used and created a lot of pressure for the Saints down the streach.

I am not saying the Saints will not trade him, as I have been saying since they drafted Smith last year that he would be. Only that they are not desperate to do so. They probably won't make too many more moves before the draft as far as free agents go and they have enough cap room to sign all of their rookie contracts. They are not desperate to the point that they will cave in. As I said before thier are plenty of teams still interested in aquiring Howard (Dallas, Minnesota, Washington, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Green Bay, etc.), even though some are not as interested as the others. Dallas still is not the only suitor out there and thus can't just make thier own price.

I do think that this deal will get done, though it may not be in Dallas. I do think the Saints will get close to what they are asking for, they definitly will not get the short end of the deal. They want fair asking price for Howard, though it is yet to be determined what that is. Personally a late 1st round or a 2nd and a player is what I see happening with this. I do think it would benifit Dallas if Darren was in the Lone Star State lined up next to Glover, Ellis and Ferguson. I don't think there is a defensive end in the draft that is hands down better or even close to Howard, though there are a couple with the potential to be. Dallas would get a proven player in Howard with the ability to rush the passer, put up double digit sack years, play the run and make everyone on the lines job a little easier while doing so. Offensive lines couldn't key on Glover anymore as they have been doing for the last couple of years. Heck if this would happen I could see Ellis, Glover and Howard having double digit, or close to it years.

With #11,#20,#42 we can add a player or two 6 to 7 years younger than Howard at a fraction of the cost. I don't see any trade happening till after the draft candidly. No reason to on Dallas part.

[DWAREZ]

Originally Posted by St. Richard

Approx $5.5 million cap room for the Saints before the signings and approx $4.25 after if the figures I have are correct. Again, it doesn't matter much in Howard's case -- if they needed more room, as BigSaint said, there are several contracts that are going to be redone and players cut to create plenty of room.

[View Full Quote]We all agree that the Saints have a surplus at DE and have a lot of money tied up in the position. The problem is that people want to make that fact out to be time critical in that the Saints HAVE to make a move NOW without getting what they determine to be fair value for the player. They don't HAVE to trade him at all -- there is the possibility that they keep him and sign him to a long term deal. If they do that, his cap value will be much less than $7.8 million and the Saints will be able to re-sign any of the players they are trying to sign to extensions. Even if Howard played for the franchise tender amount, it wouldn't necessarily be disastrous for the Saints.

One other thing I'd like to address -- Howard would not be the backup if he starts the 2005 season with the Saints. He would be the starter and Smith would rotate in with Grant and Howard to give them a breather. Sounds like a plan to me.

Ultimately, I agree that Howard will be traded, as early as this week, to some team willing to pay the Saints' price and Howard's price. For selfish reasons, I've wanted that team to be the Cowboys. I just can't stand to think of him playing for Philadelphia, Minnesota or Washington.

I never argued that the Saints MUST move DH NOW as others may have but what you rightly confess is that they have currently way too much invested in the DE end position by way of draft picks, cap space and $$$. It is 10.4 million for the two first rounders and DH but 7.8 for Howard alone. Bryant + DH is a whopping 8 plus million on backup DEs for the 2005 season. Let us not deal in possibilities but more realistically in probabilities. It is more probable that the NO Saints will move DH as opposed to keeping him given the facts. It is possible they could keep DH but not probable given all of the above.

Sure they could wait until July 15, 2005 to renegotiate with DH and waste the 7.8 million in the mean time on his contract that they will only be forced to renegotiate. But it is senseless to not trade DH because it will bring some value to your team in a trade picks and/or a player that fits a need. It also wipes out the outrageous salary figure of 7.8 million off the books. Further, it allows them cap relief to sign any other FAs they desire bewtween now and the June 1, 2005 veteran cuts.

So the question really is what would be the best route for the Saints to go that is best for their club overall. It appears to be to move DH and have flexibilty to resign other players on their team to longer contracts and add value through a DH trade in addition to gaining precious cap space.

Adam may be able to shed light on their current cap space but I believe it is dwindling down about now...but that really is not the only consideration on why it would be in the Saints best interest to move DH, but only one of them accordingly.

[CowboyFan74]

Originally Posted by Wood

I would give them Dat and a 4th rounder. Another question....if Howard is so good...why is Dallas only interested? things that make you go hmmm.

great avatar

[5mics]

Originally Posted by dallasfaniac

The Saints draft BPA no matter what it seems. Like when they had Williams and still drafted McAllister.

Yeah, that philosophy sure has worked out well for them.....

[alpha]

Why would the Saints allow so much $ to be tied up in one position when they have so many other "core players" (Duece McAllister, C LeCharles Bentley, CB Mike McKenzie, WR Joe Horn, etc.) they still need to take care of before they hit FA themselves?

Can Loomis really afford to presume Howard will be open to negotiating a long-term extension from the Saints in July?

Are the Saints ready to see Howard play out the year at $7.8 mil garanteed and walk for nothin' in '06? Or are they prepared to franchise him again to the tune of $9.4 mil garanteed? I realize these aren't the only possibilities, but it'd be foolish to write these off as unrealistic eventualities. If Howard's not traded, I'd wager this is more likely than not.

Do Saints fans honestly believe keeping Howard is in the team's best interests? By holding out indefinitely, the Saints will only succeed in compromising their best chances to improve, IMHO.

[BigSaint8050]

Originally Posted by alpha

Why would the Saints allow so much $ to be tied up in one position when they have so many other "core players" (Duece McAllister, C LeCharles Bentley, CB Mike McKenzie, WR Joe Horn, etc.) they still need to take care of before they hit FA themselves?

Can Loomis really afford to presume Howard will be open to negotiating a long-term extension from the Saints in July?

Are the Saints ready to see Howard play out the year at $7.8 mil garanteed and walk for nothin' in '06? Or are they prepared to franchise him again to the tune of $9.4 mil garanteed? I realize these aren't the only possibilities, but it'd be foolish to write these off as unrealistic eventualities. If Howard's not traded, I'd wager this is more likely than not.

Do Saints fans honestly believe keeping Howard is in the team's best interests? By holding out indefinitely, the Saints will only succeed in compromising their best chances to improve, IMHO.

And by giving in to a deal they think is less than market value will only hurt the team in the long run. They know what Howard is worth, they will hold on to him until a team comes up with something that is fair market value.

[alpha]

Originally Posted by BigSaint8050

And by giving in to a deal they think is less than market value will only hurt the team in the long run. They know what Howard is worth, they will hold on to him until a team comes up with something that is fair market value.

This is the biggest flaw in your logic, IMHO. That holding out indefinitely the Saints will somehow miraculously net a better offer, and that keeping Howard for one year at $7.8 mil is in the best interests of your team.

Who are the 'Boys really bidding against? No one. Most of the teams rumored to be interested can be eliminated immediately simply based on their remaining cap space and Howard's asking price.

The only team that may be a remote possibility is the Vikings, but there's a couple problems with this too. First, it's a little odd that none of the local Minnesota papers or fan message boards are even speculating about this possibilty. According to Vikes fans, they're not interested. Second, they don't exactly have a great need for a pass rushing DE. Lance Johnstone has racked up 21 sacks in the last two years, and the Vikes just spent last year's first rounder on pass rushing DE Kenechi Udeze. Not to mention they also have a solid run stopping LDE in Kenny Mixon.

The Saints have 'til April 23 to accept the 'Boys offer, or I'd wager they fill their need for a pass rushing DE with one of their first round picks. After all, it wouldn't be prudent for Dallas to count on a trade that may never materialize.

Saints fans keep insisting they prefer to keep Howard rather than part with him for less than fair market value. But what is really more prudent; Spending that $7.8 mil on redundant talent, or on locking up core players at other more critical positions? And having an extra second round pick in '05, or watching Howard walk for nothing in '06? I just don't see how any Saints fan can think this is really in the best interests of their team, or this somehow doesn't compromise their team's best chances to improve.

[silver]

is that all of the targeted DE/OLB are drafted before we do at 11 and we lose our leverage with the saints and end up overpaying for Howard. Or even worse we end up with Eric Ogbogu/Kenyon Coleman starting at DE in the 4-3.

One solution would be that the coaches are really high on Khalen Thorton and are penciling him as the attacking OLB in the 3-4 with James and Dat as the ILB's and Shanle & Singleton battling for the other OLB spot. In that case we have enough starting D-linemen with Ellis, Ferguson and Glover.

[alpha]

The odds are long that Shawne Merriman, Erasmus James and David Pollack are all gone by #11. The 'Boys are also still in position to transition to a 3-4 base and could look at players like Marcus Spears, DJ, Crowder, Blackstock, Ware, etc. There's no way the 'Boys won't have options picking #11, #20 and #42.

[Nors]

Originally Posted by alpha

The odds are long that Shawne Merriman, Erasmus James and David Pollack are all gone by #11. The 'Boys are also still in position to transition to a 3-4 base and could look at players like Marcus Spears, DJ, Crowder, Blackstock, Ware, etc. There's no way the 'Boys won't have options picking #11, #20 and #42.

I'll bet you two of those 3 are available when we draft at #11. I agree with you about options with our day 1 draft picks and options.