Melvin Ingram is a beast

[jnday]

Originally Posted by Woods

If Spencer isn't re-signed for whatever reason, I think we almost have to go OLB in Round 1.

Unless there is someone else RR really covets in FA. But otherwise, we're pretty much forced to draft an OLB really high.

The quickest way to get a bust is to feel that you are forced into picking one certain player or position . The history of the draft process has proved this time and time again .

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by tm1119

Just to name a few that came to mind without doing a ton of research....
James Harrison- Undrafted
Lamarr Woodley- 2nd round #46
Cameron Wake- undrafted
Shaun Phillips- Round 4 #98
Joey Porter- 3rd round #73
Ahmad Brooks- 3rd round supplemental

Either way this logic is completely flawed. Just because there were previously guards who were drafted in the 3rd round that did well doesnt mean we should just wait until the 3rd round to draft 1. That logic will run your franchise into the ground quickly.

none were starters day one, none. I said give me a list of OLBs that were starters day one. We don't have time to let a guy develop, who will play until that guy is ready.

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by Woods

Unless there is someone else RR really covets in FA. But otherwise, we're pretty much forced to draft an OLB really high.

Which would incredibly suck in my opinion.

You end up with the same team as last year with your two weakest positions, G and CB still flawed.

[supercowboy8]

James Harrison- was released two times and put on practice squad. brought back and then became a sstarter in 2007, 3 years after he was picked up be Pitt.
Lamarr Woodley- 2nd round #46; wasn't a starter till year 2
Cameron Wake- undrafted, was in canada football league before coming to miami
Shaun Phillips- Round 4 #98; drafted in 2004 but wasnt a full time starter till 2006 but played alot in 2005, was only a pass rusher his rookie year
Joey Porter- 3rd round #73 was a full time starter till his 2nd year
Ahmad Brooks- 3rd round supplemental played 11 games his rookie year never started and only played in 2 his 2nd year then released and went to san fran.

give me a list of guys that start day one drafted in the 3rd round or later please

[tm1119]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

none were starters day one, none. I said give me a list of OLBs that were starters day one. We don't have time to let a guy develop, who will play until that guy is ready.

Why? Whether you want to admit it or not Spencer is still a productive player. And we still have the option to bring him back. Plus I'd much rather start Victor Butler next year than run Newman out there everyday or have Nagy/Holland/whatever garbage we threw out at guard this year. Personally I think youre overvaluing our need for an OLB, but I guess we'll agree to disagree because I dont feel like continuing this argument.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by tm1119

Why? Whether you want to admit it or not Spencer is still a productive player. And we still have the option to bring him back. Plus I'd much rather start Victor Butler next year than run Newman out there everyday or have Nagy/Holland/whatever garbage we threw out at guard this year. Personally I think youre overvaluing our need for an OLB, but I guess we'll agree to disagree because I dont feel like continuing this argument.

you make me laugh stating that we have Butler. My god could you imagine McCoy running at Butler next year, 300 yards for each game for McCoy next year if that happens.

I would like to bring Spencer back, I have fought so hard and one of the only ones on here that wants to bring him back but I'm not down for bringing him back for 7 million a year. See Calvin Pace contract if you don't think SPencer can't get that.

[Double Trouble]

The problem is that Spencer is substandard. He has the best pure passrusher in the NFL opposite him, and he rarely takes advantage of that. The frustrating thing is he has the ability, but rarely displays it. Giving him a deal of any sort just eats more cap space and does nothing to help the pass rush.

A lot of other 34 LOLBs aren't like Spencer. He rushes the passer a lot. Someone posted stats back several weeks ago that Spencer rushes 75% of the time on pass plays. A lot of other LBs don't do that.

The more I think about it, the guy I like most is Hightower. He's a great athlete. He doesn't have huge sack stats, but he also didn't play OLB or DE full time. I have no doubt that be it as an OLB or ILB, the guy could help the D tremendously. I like both the Alabama guys, because they're smart, physical, and both have played in the 3-4. I don't think either is going to be a bust, but I think Hightower has the athleticism to be special.

With Ingram, he doesn't have the greatest quickness, but we're drafting 14th, not 4th. Almost every player we look at is going to have some flaws. Greg Ellis didn't have great quickness either and yet he was vastly superior to Spencer as a passrusher.

Whether it's this draft, free agency, or next year's draft, Dallas desperately needs another pass rusher, and Spencer isn't it. Giving him a new contract would be yet another gigantic waste of Jones' $$$ and cap room.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by Double Trouble

The problem is that Spencer is substandard. He has the best pure passrusher in the NFL opposite him, and he rarely takes advantage of that. The frustrating thing is he has the ability, but rarely displays it. Giving him a deal of any sort just eats more cap space and does nothing to help the pass rush.

A lot of other 34 LOLBs aren't like Spencer. He rushes the passer a lot. Someone posted stats back several weeks ago that Spencer rushes 75% of the time on pass plays. A lot of other LBs don't do that.

The more I think about it, the guy I like most is Hightower. He's a great athlete. He doesn't have huge sack stats, but he also didn't play OLB or DE full time. I have no doubt that be it as an OLB or ILB, the guy could help the D tremendously. I like both the Alabama guys, because they're smart, physical, and both have played in the 3-4. I don't think either is going to be a bust, but I think Hightower has the athleticism to be special.

[View Full Quote]With Ingram, he doesn't have the greatest quickness, but we're drafting 14th, not 4th. Almost every player we look at is going to have some flaws. Greg Ellis didn't have great quickness either and yet he was vastly superior to Spencer as a passrusher.

Whether it's this draft, free agency, or next year's draft, Dallas desperately needs another pass rusher, and Spencer isn't it. Giving him a new contract would be yet another gigantic waste of Jones' $$$ and cap room.

I agree with you, I like HIghtower but he too will be a first round pick, I think after his bowl game, then I;m sure he will perform well at the senior bowl and combine he will be a first round pick.

Ingram has great burst and can close a gap quickley. Have you seen him play, he can cover 3 ro 4 yards in a heart beat. His problem is off the snap but I think that can be fixed.

[rocyaice]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

That would mean we would have to resign Spencer $$$ so you have no reason to pick Ingram in the first round. Also where can three OLBs play?

Giants have had no problem playing 3 DE's in Osi, JPP and Tuck. I'd actually prefer the Cowboys sign Spencer and still get another guy in here to where when Spencer or Ware take a seat we don't miss a beat.