Day one ready to start OLBs

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

Ok then what do you do if Spencer walk, the pick #14 has to be a day one starting OLB because history has shown you can't find a day one starting 3-4 OLB past the first. If a Ryan Kerrigan who was drafted 16th last year in the first round is at 14 then you take him because you absolutely have to have a replacement SOLB if Spencer walks.

I draft the BPA to fill a need. If I have to I go with a rookie along with Victor Butler but I do not over pay for a player who is not living up to the expectation. Sorry I don't think over paying is ever the right solution.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by RoyTheHammer

I wasn't talking about Branch as a guy at 14. He'd be a second round guy, but could probably come close to matching the production of the other two at a much better value. He's the same build, athletic enough to make the switch to 34 OLB, and faced double teams constantly at Clemson, but still came through with double digit sacks.

no, we need a day one starter, Branch in round 2 might be a good pick but I don't see him becoming a starter day one and has the ability to cover and stuff the run.
Branch is as athletic as Ingram and Upshaw. I like Branch but I think you haev to geta day one starting OLB if Spencer walks.

[jblaze2004]

Upshaw is as close as it gets to a day 1 starter. he plays OLB in the 3-4 in college already. Almost a seasoned vet if he gets picked...lol....He doesn't impress me rushing the passer though. But I rather pick him then overpay for spencer (who seems like a lazy/lack motivation player).

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I draft the BPA to fill a need. If I have to I go with a rookie along with Victor Butler but I do not over pay for a player who is not living up to the expectation. Sorry I don't think over paying is ever the right solution.

Ok I agree with that. I would BPA per need but if we sign a OG and CB in FA and Spencer walks then SOLB is the greatest need adn will over rank every ther position. Migh tmake a Upshaw and Ingram sneak up the draft board.

[RoyTheHammer]

Originally Posted by jblaze2004

ingram is as close as it gets to a day 1 starter. he plays OLB in the 3-4 in college already. Almost a seasoned vet if he gets picked...lol....He doesn't impress me rushing the passer though. But I rather pick him then overpay for spencer (who seems like a lazy/lack motivation player).

So you would rather waste our first round pick on a pass rusher who doesn't rush the passer well, when we have so many other areas to fill?

lol.. come on now, and Spencer is anything but lazy. You must not pay attention to him on the field.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

no, we need a day one starter, Branch in round 2 might be a good pick but I don't see him becoming a starter day one and has the ability to cover and stuff the run.
Branch is as athletic as Ingram and Upshaw. I like Branch but I think you haev to geta day one starting OLB if Spencer walks.

No you don't, Spencer was a 1st rd draft choice for us did he start day 1? No he didn't

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by jblaze2004

Upshaw is as close as it gets to a day 1 starter. he plays OLB in the 3-4 in college already. Almost a seasoned vet if he gets picked...lol....He doesn't impress me rushing the passer though. But I rather pick him then overpay for spencer (who seems like a lazy/lack motivation player).

You mean Upshaw, right?

Even though Ingram could be a day one starter since he does play OLB, DE and DT and drop sback into coverage and has INTs this year.

[tm1119]

Melvin Ingram can't come into the NFL and play every down from day 1 either. He doesn't have nearly enough latteral or straight line speed to cover NFL rb's or te's. Pay Spencer something like 3/18 and address bigger needs in the draft. Replacing Spencer with ingram with our 1st round pick would be like spinning tires as someone else here said.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

Ok I agree with that. I would BPA per need but if we sign a OG and CB in FA and Spencer walks then SOLB is the greatest need adn will over rank every ther position. Migh tmake a Upshaw and Ingram sneak up the draft board.

I agree that if we can fill some needs in FA and spencer walks then getting an Ingram or Upshaw would be a very good pick. Will they make mistakes sure they are rookies but you draft them not just for next year but for the long haul.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

No you don't, Spencer was a 1st rd draft choice for us did he start day 1? No he didn't

he was drafted 28th overall and show al lthe more of a reason to draft this positino early. Its hard to transition too. It takes time this is why you never see a 2nd or later round draft pick start at OLB.

We traded up out of the 2nd round to 28 to get Spencer.
If you draft a player in the 1st he should be ready to start and especially at 14.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by tm1119

Melvin Ingram can't come into the NFL and play every down from day 1 either. He doesn't have nearly enough latteral or straight line speed to cover NFL rb's or te's. Pay Spencer something like 3/18 and address bigger needs in the draft. Replacing Spencer with ingram with our 1st round pick would be like spinning tires as someone else here said.

why do you think Ingram can't move laterally and cover, he has only done just that the last two years in college. The guy drop s back into coverage and covers RB and TEs already.

Straight line speed, look at the auburn game where he is standing in coverage and a hole opens up to the QB, he goes from flat feet straight at the QB in no time and sacks the QB.

[jnday]

I am not sure that there is a improvement in this years draft . I don't agree with letting Spencer walk just to spend the 14th pick on a player that may not be an upgrade . If Upshaw or Ingram blows the combine up and the Dallas staff are sure that it will be a considerable upgrade , pull the trigger .

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

he was drafted 28th overall and show al lthe more of a reason to draft this positino early. Its hard to transition too. It takes time this is why you never see a 2nd or later round draft pick start at OLB.

We traded up out of the 2nd round to 28 to get Spencer.
If you draft a player in the 1st he should be ready to start and especially at 14.

I agree it takes time it takes some time for most NFL rookies even top draft picks. But that does not mean you pay Spencer as a top OLB. If Dallas can bring him back at a reasonable deal great if not then you look at the bigger picture not just next year.

[jblaze2004]

Or how about Whitney Mercilus (depending on the combine).

Summary: Whitney Mercilus was the most productive pass-rusher in college football in 2011. He led the nation in sacks (16) and forced fumbles (9). It was a record-setting season as Mercilus topped Simeon Rice's school record for sacks in a year. Like Rice, Mercilus is a fabulous athlete. He has a special combination of size, speed and strength to go along with excellent technique. Mercilus also recorded 57 tackles and 22.5 tackles for a loss.

Entering the NFL, Mercilus is an advanced pass-rusher. He got the better of the best tackles he faced this season. Against Ohio State's Mike Adams, Mercilus recorded 1.5 sacks with a forced fumble. The Wisconsin Badgers' powerful offensive line couldn't contain Mercilus. He bull rushed through massive right tackle Josh Oglesby to get a sack-fumble on Russell Wilson. Mercilus also knocked out left tackle Ricky Wagner for part of the game.

Mercilus has a very impressive repertoire of pass rushing moves. He attacks with speed around the edge. As a counter to the speed, he has the strength to execute rip moves and shed offensive linemen. Mercilus has the raw power to get under offensive linemen's pads and bull rush into the pocket. That catches linemen by surprise as they are so cognizant of being ready for his speed rush. Beyond his great physical skill set, Mercilus is an advanced pass-rusher technically.

Mercilus holds up well in run defense. Linemen don't push him around, as he is strong at the point of attack. He also will burst into the backfield to disrupt running plays.

The big question regarding Mercilus is why didn't break into the lineup sooner and why didn't he produce more earlier. In 2009 and 2010, Mercilus combined to record 24 tackles with two sacks and 6.5 tackles for a loss.




Player Comparison: Jason Pierre-Paul. There are a lot of similarities between Mercilus and JPP. Both are fantastic athletes who come to the NFL with a special combination of speed and strength. They also were one-year wonders at the college level. Mercilus had more production than JPP in their final college season, and the latter has turned into one of the best pass-rushers in the NFL.

Right now, it looks like Mercilus should get drafted in the same range as JPP. However, it is possible that Mercilus will be this year's Aldon Smith and surprise some by cracking the top 10. It is not out of the question for him to pass North Carolina's Quinton Coples in the lead up to the 2012 NFL Draft. JPP did that with Derrick Morgan in 2010. Projecting Mercilus to the pros, I see a player similar to Pierre-Paul.

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingre...2wmercilus.php


I would love to get someone with that potiential at 14. Could be highway robbery.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by jnday

I am not sure that there is a improvement in this years draft . I don't agree with letting Spencer walk just to spend the 14th pick on a player that may not be an upgrade . If Upshaw or Ingram blows the combine up and the Dallas staff are sure that it will be a considerable upgrade , pull the trigger .

I would not let Spencer walk just to let him walk but do you think he should get say top 5 money as OLB? Do you think there is a point where you let a guy go before you just hand over the new contract?