Mo or 2 top rated offensive linemen?

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

Wagner was on my pet cat list so I didn't laugh. I said after the draft that if the only choice I had was Claiborne or Brockers and Wagner, give me the latter.

Nothing against Morris. As cornerbacks go, I like him. He just does not address the fatal flaws with this team.

your take would be fine except it is based on nothing but your opinion.

pff data and basic nfl stats show the dallas pass defense was the weakest part of its team in 2011 and ranked around 30th. the OL ranked in the high 20s.

so, yes, drafting Mo Claiborne did address our biggest weakness.

when we couldn't prevent a 3 step drop pass going for long TDs we absolutely had no choice but to address the secondary.

feel free to ask CLE how much a great OL helps prevent passing plays being made on you?

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by dadymat

actually i remember everyone screaming that our O line AND secondary was the primary reason this team underachieved last season.....they fixed the secondary and thought Smith, Costa and Free could get them by this season pared with a rotation of other guys...., i dont think anyone knew Costa would be hurt all year, and that Free would regress this drastically...and frankly im a little underwhelmed by Smith at LT so far (i do believe he will develop into a good one though)....if they would have not picked Mo, then we would be watching Scandrick get abused on a weekly basis and praying he nor Carr would get injured...Romo helps his O line...no one helps the secondary.....Im hopeful next off season will be dedicated to the lines and the 3 year plan will be in gear...

I love when history gets re-written when you were on the wrong side of an issue.

This season has basically played out exactly as I suspected it would.

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by dadymat

actually i remember everyone screaming that our O line AND secondary was the primary reason this team underachieved last season.....they fixed the secondary and thought Smith, Costa and Free could get them by this season pared with a rotation of other guys...., i dont think anyone knew Costa would be hurt all year, and that Free would regress this drastically...and frankly im a little underwhelmed by Smith at LT so far (i do believe he will develop into a good one though)....if they would have not picked Mo, then we would be watching Scandrick get abused on a weekly basis and praying he nor Carr would get injured...Romo helps his O line...no one helps the secondary.....Im hopeful next off season will be dedicated to the lines and the 3 year plan will be in gear...

they thought Costa was ready to start from Game 1 last year as well
Wonderful judgement. So anyone putting reliance on the Boys judgement of O line especially in the last 5 years or so is really delusional

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by jterrell

your take would be fine except it is based on nothing but your opinion.

pff data and basic nfl stats show the dallas pass defense was the weakest part of its team in 2011 and ranked around 30th. the OL ranked in the high 20s.

so, yes, drafting Mo Claiborne did address our biggest weakness.

when we couldn't prevent a 3 step drop pass going for long TDs we absolutely had no choice but to address the secondary.

feel free to ask CLE how much a great OL helps prevent passing plays being made on you?

I wanted to fix the O line mainly to protect Romo
something you convienently ignore

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I was talking about last offseason. Tyron was two offseasons ago.

You SHOULD read MORE carefully.

You need to write more carefully. LAST year was 2011.
It is currently 2012. In this PAST off-season (still 2012 and thus THIS YEAR) they added two starting OL through FA.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by dadymat

actually i remember everyone screaming that our O line AND secondary was the primary reason this team underachieved last season.....they fixed the secondary and thought Smith, Costa and Free could get them by this season pared with a rotation of other guys...., i dont think anyone knew Costa would be hurt all year, and that Free would regress this drastically...and frankly im a little underwhelmed by Smith at LT so far (i do believe he will develop into a good one though)....if they would have not picked Mo, then we would be watching Scandrick get abused on a weekly basis and praying he nor Carr would get injured...Romo helps his O line...no one helps the secondary.....Im hopeful next off season will be dedicated to the lines and the 3 year plan will be in gear...

OL, DL and Secondary.

Dallas addressed them all to some extent.

r1 CB, Big fa CB... hoped to limp by at Safety with spares and Sensy.
Drafted Crawford at DE.
Signed Livings and Bern, guaranteed Leary cash to bring him in as an UDFA. Flipped Free and Smith because Free was gonna be a stud RT and Smith would eventually be a great LT.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by jterrell

You need to write more carefully. LAST year was 2011.
It is currently 2012. In this PAST off-season (still 2012 and thus THIS YEAR) they added two starting OL through FA.

The two OL they added LAST offseason can't PLAY. (hey, this is fun).

I was talking about adding actual talented players to the mix. Not ham and eggers like Nate Livings and Mackenzie Bernadeau. If I suggested their CB equivalent instead of Carr and Claiborne you folks would have a collective panic attack.

It's real simple and I'll write in your style - If you RUN a football TEAM and emphasize the SECONDARY over the trenches, your team will NOT win.

That's the current state of the Dallas Cowboys. That's all that is wrong on the field right now and it won't change until our offseason approach changes.

[dadymat]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I love when history gets re-written when you were on the wrong side of an issue.

This season has basically played out exactly as I suspected it would.

as usual you spew nonsense......What history did I rewrite?......how am I on the wrong side of the issue ?.......and since all you ever do is predict doom and gloom you conveniently get to be right anytime something goes wrong..
had we went with Scandrick and Jenkins and got Nicks and Decastro, we would be in the same boat except instead of our O line killing us it would be the Defense.

[john van brocklin]

Originally Posted by dadymat

actually i remember everyone screaming that our O line AND secondary was the primary reason this team underachieved last season.....they fixed the secondary and thought Smith, Costa and Free could get them by this season pared with a rotation of other guys...., i dont think anyone knew Costa would be hurt all year, and that Free would regress this drastically...and frankly im a little underwhelmed by Smith at LT so far (i do believe he will develop into a good one though)....if they would have not picked Mo, then we would be watching Scandrick get abused on a weekly basis and praying he nor Carr would get injured...Romo helps his O line...no one helps the secondary.....Im hopeful next off season will be dedicated to the lines and the 3 year plan will be in gear...

I was all for the Carr signing to help the secondary. The 2 Olinemen we signed not so much.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

The two OL they added LAST offseason can't PLAY. (hey, this is fun).

I was talking about adding actual talented players to the mix. Not ham and eggers like Nate Livings and Mackenzie Bernadeau. If I suggested their CB equivalent instead of Carr and Claiborne you folks would have a collective panic attack.

It's real simple and I'll write in your style - If you RUN a football TEAM and emphasize the SECONDARY over the trenches, your team will NOT win.

That's the current state of the Dallas Cowboys. That's all that is wrong on the field right now and it won't change until our offseason approach changes.

Livings CAN play.

You are trying to argue on one hand that CARR IS Livings and then on another suggest we neglected the OL?

Just stop. You have never made a salient point yet.

This is a passing league. Winning teams have skill players on offense and defense. This isn't 1950.
Many of the supposed best OL in football are TERRIBLE football teams. CLE, TENN, CAR. Then you have some teams like GB and PHI who were supposed to have a mighty OL that have fallen apart to be worse than Dallas in 2012.

Dallas HASN"T ignored their OL and they didn't build outside in. They spent the top pick in forever at OT then realized the CB situation was even worse and used the next r1 pick there IN THAT ORDER. They paid Free 8m per year BEFORE they paid Carr his 10m per.

The best teams in he NFL have good QBs, good WRs and solid defenses. IT is nice to have a good running game but that is largely just window dressing because when the game is on the line no one runs the friggin ball. They spread it out and pass non-stop.

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

The two OL they added LAST offseason can't PLAY. (hey, this is fun).

I was talking about adding actual talented players to the mix. Not ham and eggers like Nate Livings and Mackenzie Bernadeau.

I gotta give you 1+ for using the term "ham and egger".

[john van brocklin]

Originally Posted by john van brocklin

I was all for the Carr signing to help the secondary. The 2 Olinemen we signed not so much.

There is a differance in signing a "body" and signing a quality starter.

Carr to me was a quality signing, the 2 olinemen we signed were not quality to anyone I knew. So our big free agent signing was a cornerback , we used our 2 top draft picks on a cornerback, then went dumpster diving on our free agent Oline signings and drafted no Olinemen.

All our eggs went into the secondary basket so to speak and the Oline got a few leftovers.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by dadymat

as usual you spew nonsense......What history did I rewrite?......how am I on the wrong side of the issue ?.......and since all you ever do is predict doom and gloom you conveniently get to be right anytime something goes wrong..
had we went with Scandrick and Jenkins and got Nicks and Decastro, we would be in the same boat except instead of our O line killing us it would be the Defense.

You said nobody knew about Costa. I knew he wouldn't be a good player for us this year. Injury or not. You said nobody could have foreseen Doug Free. I could and did. Nate Livings and Mackenzie Bernadeau? I saw it coming a mile away.

You're claiming this current state of the OL couldn't have been predicted. It was. I have. Others did too.

I have no issue at all going with Jenkins and Scandrick. I would have added a mid round CB more than likely and slept quite soundly. You're talking to the wrong guy. I worry about critical areas of the team and how we can get them fixed so quality cornerbacks like Jenkins, Newman and Scandrick don't all look like bums as they did in 2011.

I knew going in that the defense would be improved. That tends to happen when your new coordinator has an offseason to install and players are much more comfortable with it. Carr and Claiborne have done nothing to create that. You would have seen the same thing with the cornerbacks of 2011. In fact, the two that still remain on this team have played much better this year.

We need real impact players in the trenches.

[Zordon]

Originally Posted by jterrell

no, we wouldn't have.

this team had brockers set to go had we stayed where we were.

at 45 they were going to take bobby wagner ANOTHER ILB.
people laughed when that was brought up but truth is he has been outstanding for the seahags.

the top OT was kalil but he went even before our trade up.
the NEXT OT was Riley Reiff at pick 23.
And he doesnt even start. On a team beleaguered in every way.

They were high on Zeitler and Wagner. That shows their evaluations were good. I just think they made the wrong decision.

Trade down, get Zeitler or Decastro, pick up a late 2nd or early 3rd rd pick. Then you can package some picks to move up and get Jenkins or another guard...you can also stay put and take Wagner and then have another pick to draft Hayward later in the 2nd w/ Crawford in the 3rd. My point is this team is not a player away but they traded resources to get Claiborne as if they were. I would have prefered to have kept the 2nd rd pick and add to the oline either with that pick or the 1st rd pick.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Livings CAN play.

You are trying to argue on one hand that CARR IS Livings and then on another suggest we neglected the OL?

I never said Carr is Livings. I said if I had suggested the CB equivalent of Nate Livings and MacKenzie Bernadeau as additions to our secondary last offseason instead of Carr and Claiborne, meaning one very marginal starting player on a bad team and a career backup on another bad team, I'd have been tomato'd to death.

But along the OL, that's fine. We can live with that. Hey, I have an idea. Let's build the world's richest secondary and "get by" along the OL.

It's so backwards that I can only assume this is just fans sticking up for the moves of their team regardless of how ridiculous those moves are. No sane football fan can actually believe this is a proper way to build a competitive team.

Just stop. You have never made a salient point yet.

This is a passing league. Winning teams have skill players on offense and defense. This isn't 1950.
Many of the supposed best OL in football are TERRIBLE football teams. CLE, TENN, CAR. Then you have some teams like GB and PHI who were supposed to have a mighty OL that have fallen apart to be worse than Dallas in 2012.

Dallas HASN"T ignored their OL and they didn't build outside in. They spent the top pick in forever at OT then realized the CB situation was even worse and used the next r1 pick there IN THAT ORDER. They paid Free 8m per year BEFORE they paid Carr his 10m per.

The best teams in he NFL have good QBs, good WRs and solid defenses. IT is nice to have a good running game but that is largely just window dressing because when the game is on the line no one runs the friggin ball. They spread it out and pass non-stop.

This is a passing league and they only way you're going to stop these great QBs consistently enough to win games is to get after the QB and run interference between QB and receiver. You can not out cover them on a consistent basis.

And the only way you're going to allow your own QB to make enough plays to win consistently enough to contend is to give him that time in the pocket to dissect any defense. Tony Romo can hang 30 on any defense in this league if he is protected.

Linemen are more important today than ever.