Offensive linemen rankings...

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Those OL rank high regardless of who does the ranking.
CLE has been an OL first team for half a decade and wins ~5 games a year.

Bottom line is this is a skill position league right now.

It starts at QB but quickly moves to WR, RB and coverage/pressure guys on defense.

We still have a lot of fans who believe this is 1960. They'd likely call a lot of fumblerooskies. (we actually ran that in HS btw, lol)

OL play is important like RB play or TE play. But OL do not score TDs nor do they stop TDs and you need to do that in this era of football. The same "pathetic" OL we have seems pretty friggin solid the weeks DeMarco Murray can actually play at 100%.

And while we were told this line was going to cause Tony Romo to retire mid-game by week 5 he instead has been one of the hottest QBs in football the past 6 to 8 games.

Good point.

Buffalo have drafted olineman out the wazoo and it's a good oline. Problem is they have ignored the wr/qb positions and the corners suck. Bad formula.

Free needs to go but don't think a major overhaul is needed.

[Manwiththeplan]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

when you are cheap you usually get what you pay for.
One can hope that Smith will improve as he was the only expensive part
Livings has been inconsistent
Bernie stinks
Cook is a backup
Free -well enough about that loser

being cheap wasn't the problem. Free has been our worst linemen and I think we'd all agree, there's nothing cheap about him. Smith, is playing under a rookie contract and was a top 10 pick. Livings may be inconsistent, but you can't tell me that super bowl teams don't have a linemen who offer nothing more than Livings.

I'd say Bernie isn't cheap and gets paid pretty well, but I'd concede that point before arguing, and Costa is obviously cheap.

[Manwiththeplan]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

it really amazes me that so many here refuse to see just how important a dominant offensive line was to the 90's teams successes

I don't think anyone would argue against that, it's just realistically getting an o-line of that caliber is easier said than done. Say we let Spencer walk so we can spend the money on o-line, who's available? Say we spend all our draft picks on the o-line, are we garunteed any starters after round 1?

I want the o-line to get better, but we don't need the best o-line in the league to take this team to the next level. I'd say we have at best, a bottom 10 o-line, maybe closer to 5, then 10; flipping that to a top 15 unit, would make a monumental difference.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

Good point.

Buffalo have drafted olineman out the wazoo and it's a good oline. Problem is they have ignored the wr/qb positions and the corners suck. Bad formula.

Free needs to go but don't think a major overhaul is needed.

Same with the Jets.
You miss at QB and WR and things get really hard, really fast.

Mediocre QBs throw for 250 yards a week. You can use tempo plus a short passing game to wear down and reduce the pass rush. You can run the ball to open up play action. You can use a screen game to keep defenses from pass rushing. You can roll the QB to either side. You can even run QB reads to minimize the need for good OL play. Like any other group it opens up the playbook and adds to your overall ability to succeed but it isn't the wonder drug of the NFL. Good OLs win but they don't strongly correlate to winning like top notch defenses or top notch QB play do.

This is an era of football where QBs would be far better off with elite weapons than elite blocking. RG3, Romo, Ben R, Wilson kid in SEA and others are probably more dangerous when they get rushed then when they are rushed by 3. Give them WRs who win routes and make plays and they'll buy the time they need to make those monster plays.

We are in love with our 90's OL but without the triplets Larry Allen sure didn't win many games. He'd pancake two people on a play and we'd still lose yardage.

[jobberone]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

Well, no offense but I'll ignore the idiotic PFF rankings, as they're garbage not worth looking at.

How good would slop be playing next to quality? A little better but still slop. What's your point? Do you want to fix the OL or continue messing around while your franchise QB keeps getting older?

Bernadeau and Livings are backup quality players. Cook is an emergency body and Costa shouldn't be in the league. Doug Free is exactly what I said he was during the Doug Free...Superstar! tour. Completely overrated. He's a swing tackle, nothing more.

You will not fix this OL until those players are no longer on the field. You can improve it next year by replacing some of them but you won't fix it to the tune of it being a strength of the team like it should be until all those players are either ex-Cowboys or sitting on the bench watching the game.

[View Full Quote]That is the long and short of it, Mikey. You have to have a base of talent before coaching and scheme comes into play. We don't have that.

Start with the older guys on the OL who got dumped by Garrett and tell us what you would have done differently if you were Garrett. Remember he doesn't have complete control over personnel and he's not responsible for prior drafts poor or not.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by jobberone

Start with the older guys on the OL who got dumped by Garrett and tell us what you would have done differently if you were Garrett. Remember he doesn't have complete control over personnel and he's not responsible for prior drafts poor or not.

come on bro. you are asking a guy who has a fascination with ol that runs so deep he has all ol mock drafts.

you are inciting a trainwreck with that question.

you can't ask someone clearly with a fetish to think reasonably.

[Vintage]

Tyron a top 10 LT? Lulz..

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by jobberone

Start with the older guys on the OL who got dumped by Garrett and tell us what you would have done differently if you were Garrett. Remember he doesn't have complete control over personnel and he's not responsible for prior drafts poor or not.

Okay....but I've done this over and over before.

I know Garrett inherited a mess. I've said this many times. He is less responsible for this OL than Bill Parcells, IMO. Some of his OL picks should be the core of this current group. Jerry is certainly more responsible. Stephen too. Did Wade have any say? If so, he's got more blame than Garrett.

What he should have done is made the OL the priority last offseason instead of CB. He should have signed Ben Grubbs. He should have drafted Kevin Zeitler or Cordy Glenn. Even DeCastro, but I was higher on the other two. He shouldn't have gone into this season with Phil Costa as our starting center.

Now I don't know if Garrett has the power to make anything a priority but that's really besides the point. Either he does and he didn't or he doesn't and he's a puppet. The bottom line is we wasted an offseason last year when we had great resources by completely ignoring this glaring critical weakness on our roster. One that absolutely will prevent us from winning anything this year.

What's the difference between the Cowboys and the best teams in the league right now? The line of scrimmage. That's where we are lacking and you can't win that way. Not when you lose both sides of the line like we do on a consistent basis.

[sonnyboy]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Same with the Jets.
You miss at QB and WR and things get really hard, really fast.

Mediocre QBs throw for 250 yards a week. You can use tempo plus a short passing game to wear down and reduce the pass rush. You can run the ball to open up play action. You can use a screen game to keep defenses from pass rushing. You can roll the QB to either side. You can even run QB reads to minimize the need for good OL play. Like any other group it opens up the playbook and adds to your overall ability to succeed but it isn't the wonder drug of the NFL. Good OLs win but they don't strongly correlate to winning like top notch defenses or top notch QB play do.

[View Full Quote]This is an era of football where QBs would be far better off with elite weapons than elite blocking. RG3, Romo, Ben R, Wilson kid in SEA and others are probably more dangerous when they get rushed then when they are rushed by 3. Give them WRs who win routes and make plays and they'll buy the time they need to make those monster plays.

We are in love with our 90's OL but without the triplets Larry Allen sure didn't win many games. He'd pancake two people on a play and we'd still lose yardage.

Ordinary people have have trouble with change. Their little brains get hard wired at some point early on and they carry the rules that applied at that time with them the rest of their days.

[newlander]

Originally Posted by weaver21

Looks like Livings is having a solid season. Everyone else have been average and in Free's case, pretty awful. This definitely should be priority number one come this off-season ... fix this damn offensive line.

....he's been pretty darn solid: but everyone else? Free is literal hot garbage; what a clown. I'd like to know the 7 below him: bet you they're backups.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Vintage

Tyron a top 10 LT? Lulz..

He very well may be even next season.

Athletically he is already a top 10 guy.
He has 1 season of LT play EVER on a major level.

He is a very strong, very athletic player who struggles with things he hasn't seen before and apparently concentration.

Every OL coach in this league would love to have Smith going into next year.

Free has been whipped physically and mentally all year and it got in his head and he short-circuited. Tyron has whipped himself at times mentally and some good pash rush moves throw him completely but he stands up just fine physically.

[burmafrd]

I believe due to his work ethic coupled with his physical gifts Tyron will be a top 10 LT

I cannot find myself able to believe that Free will do as well

[Manwiththeplan]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

What he should have done is made the OL the priority last offseason instead of CB. He should have signed Ben Grubbs. He should have drafted Kevin Zeitler or Cordy Glenn. Even DeCastro, but I was higher on the other two. He shouldn't have gone into this season with Phil Costa as our starting center.

And had we signed Grubbs and drafted Zeitler or Glenn, we'd likely still be 8-6, except a different group of posters would be complaining about the secondary and how the defense is a bottom 10 unit.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by Manwiththeplan

And had we signed Grubbs and drafted Zeitler or Glenn, we'd likely still be 8-6, except a different group of posters would be complaining about the secondary and how the defense is a bottom 10 unit.

Yes-I couldn't take one more season of that sieve of a secondary. Carr and Claiborne were wise investments, they have for the most part been instrumental in keeping the Cowboys in games given the magnitude of injuries on defense.
On the flipside, DeMarco Murray is probably more important to the passing game than the oline. If anything they'll need to find a viable backup rb in the offseason.

[D29Murray]

Can we trade RS to the Eagles for a bag of chetos?