Sturm: Josh Brent, lack of NT is reason for Sunday failure to stop run

[Double Trouble]

Originally Posted by Shinywalrus

Who at nose tackle was perpetually injured in college? What straw man are you creating here?

No straw men necessary. Was referring to the excuses in general.

Can't draft troublemakers, count on them, then act like its bad luck when they get in trouble. Same with signing troubled free agents. Or playing defensive ends at nose tackle then acting like it's bad luck when, surprise, they're worn out at an early age. Or draft constantly hurt ILBs, and once again, be shocked when they're hurt.

[links18]

Originally Posted by silver

Maybe, and I'm speculating here, a large number of the players have a drinking problem. The night of the Jerry Brown accident reportedly a bunch of players were partying a couple of days before the Cincy game. How can they be partying that hard, as evidently they were, when they should be in their top shape. All the injuries like hamstrings and wearing down at the end of the year, being unable to finish games might be related to not being in top shape and might be alcohol related.

it seems we do too much of and not enough of

I doubt Brent was the only one who drove home drunk that night.....

[silver]

Originally Posted by Double Trouble

No straw men necessary. Was referring to the excuses in general.

Can't draft troublemakers, count on them, then act like its bad luck when they get in trouble. Same with signing troubled free agents. Or playing defensive ends at nose tackle then acting like it's bad luck when, surprise, they're worn out at an early age. Or draft constantly hurt ILBs, and once again, be shocked when they're hurt.

or fail to draft a Center or Guard in the 1st three rounds and scratch your head when your undrafted free agents don't develop. Same with drafting complementary RB's in the first round and be surprised he cant be relied to carry the load. It's like our retirement strategy it buy scratch lottery tickets. like the kid in the ad says: look at my shocked face

[Zordon]

Originally Posted by links18

The 'Skins scored 28 points with less than 90 yards passing. Defense was like a sieve against the run and could not figure out how to stop the read option. They deserve their share of the blame also.

They had them at 21 pts with 3 minutes to play. Let's be real, if I gave you that before the game you would have taken it. Rob Ryan made a conscious decision to take away the pass/big play from RG3. It worked. There were very little demoralizing explosive plays bc our safeties were playing back all game. With Brady freaking Poppinga and other scrubs playing significant minutes I expected 35+ pts from the skins this game. On the other hand the offense has had one signficant season long injury, costa, which they adjusted to. Receivers were healthy, QB was healthy, Oline was healthy and RBs were healthy. They don't click like they've done all season, romo turns into a midget, and red forgets what a screen pass is. Jason and Romo knew before the game there was pressure on their side of the ball to play well bc of the lack able bodies on defense. They failed us.

[dexternjack]

Originally Posted by Zordon

They had them at 21 pts with 3 minutes to play. Let's be real, if I gave you that before the game you would have taken it. Rob Ryan made a conscious decision to take away the pass/big play from RG3. It worked. There were very little demoralizing explosive plays bc our safeties were playing back all game. With Brady freaking Poppinga and other scrubs playing significant minutes I expected 35+ pts from the skins this game. On the other hand the offense has had one signficant season long injury, costa, which they adjusted to. Receivers were healthy, QB was healthy, Oline was healthy and RBs were healthy. They don't click like they've done all season, romo turns into a midget, and red forgets what a screen pass is. Jason and Romo knew before the game there was pressure on their side of the ball to play well bc of the lack able bodies on defense. They failed us.

Enough said right there. The defense held them to 21 and gave the off the ball with a chance to win. As far as I'm concerned, they did their job and the offense failed yet again. Defense was a MASH unit, the offense was healthy, no excuses.

[Shinywalrus]

Originally Posted by Double Trouble

No straw men necessary. Was referring to the excuses in general.

Can't draft troublemakers, count on them, then act like its bad luck when they get in trouble. Same with signing troubled free agents. Or playing defensive ends at nose tackle then acting like it's bad luck when, surprise, they're worn out at an early age. Or draft constantly hurt ILBs, and once again, be shocked when they're hurt.

I just think there's a lot of confirmation bias in what you're observing. I think the truth is, if you look around, that the Cowboys have roughly the same number of "troublemakers" as any other team in the league, and perhaps less given some of the changes in the last couple years. Likewise, until the last year or two, the Cowboys have been well above the league average in terms of player health.

Barry Church was a four year starter at Toledo who was healthy for practically his entire tenure with the Cowboys before going on IR.

Jay Ratliff was consistently healthy throughout college and prior to being injured this season, played 300 more snaps than any other Cowboys DL in 2011, roughly 200 more than any other Cowboys DL in 2010, roughly 200 more than any other Cowboys DL in 2009 and even a few more than runner-up Chris Canty in 2008.

Phil Costa did not miss a SINGLE game in his college career and missed only part of a single game in his first year as a starter before suffering his injury this season.

Orlando Scandrick started 38 of 39 games in college. He was available for essentially all the games in 2008, 2009 and 2010 before missing some to start the season in 2011.

In case it's not clear to anyone, here's what you're doing: you're looking at Sean Lee and Bruce Carter and making a broad, sweeping generalization about the Cowboys when, frankly, they are the two cases that really fit your example. Second, you're looking at Josh Brent and making a sweeping generalization when he's the only player who really fits your example.

[Hostile]

Jesse Williams or John Jenkins...come on down. You're the first round pick of the Dallas Cowboys.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by RS12

Terrence Knighton come on down. Draft is deep there too.

Yep, Knighton in FA and Brandon Williams in the 4th. No need to go overboard on resources at NT.

They only play a true 3-4 about half the snaps and sometimes less. Even then, they often rotate NTs.

On the other hand, an offensive lineman normally plays 100% of the offensive snaps.

[links18]

Originally Posted by Zordon

They had them at 21 pts with 3 minutes to play. Let's be real, if I gave you that before the game you would have taken it. Rob Ryan made a conscious decision to take away the pass/big play from RG3. It worked. There were very little demoralizing explosive plays bc our safeties were playing back all game. With Brady freaking Poppinga and other scrubs playing significant minutes I expected 35+ pts from the skins this game. On the other hand the offense has had one signficant season long injury, costa, which they adjusted to. Receivers were healthy, QB was healthy, Oline was healthy and RBs were healthy. They don't click like they've done all season, romo turns into a midget, and red forgets what a screen pass is. Jason and Romo knew before the game there was pressure on their side of the ball to play well bc of the lack able bodies on defense. They failed us.

Nobody is arguing with you about the offense......

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by Shinywalrus

I just think there's a lot of confirmation bias in what you're observing. I think the truth is, if you look around, that the Cowboys have roughly the same number of "troublemakers" as any other team in the league, and perhaps less given some of the changes in the last couple years. Likewise, until the last year or two, the Cowboys have been well above the league average in terms of player health.

Barry Church was a four year starter at Toledo who was healthy for practically his entire tenure with the Cowboys before going on IR.

Jay Ratliff was consistently healthy throughout college and prior to being injured this season, played 300 more snaps than any other Cowboys DL in 2011, roughly 200 more than any other Cowboys DL in 2010, roughly 200 more than any other Cowboys DL in 2009 and even a few more than runner-up Chris Canty in 2008.

[View Full Quote]Phil Costa did not miss a SINGLE game in his college career and missed only part of a single game in his first year as a starter before suffering his injury this season.

Orlando Scandrick started 38 of 39 games in college. He was available for essentially all the games in 2008, 2009 and 2010 before missing some to start the season in 2011.

In case it's not clear to anyone, here's what you're doing: you're looking at Sean Lee and Bruce Carter and making a broad, sweeping generalization about the Cowboys when, frankly, they are the two cases that really fit your example. Second, you're looking at Josh Brent and making a sweeping generalization when he's the only player who really fits your example.

and you are ignoring the FACT that a primary reason we got Brent is other teams worried about his drinking in college. Guess what happened to him?

Lee and Carter were injured in college and have been injured in the Pros. Once again taking a risk and its so far not looking good.

Now if you pass on players injured in college and known for drinking, you could have 3 slots that were not empty when needed.

[ghst187]

kind of a crazy question, if Brent ends up getting off of all the charges save DUI, any chance he comes back with a few game suspension? And if so, would the organization have him back?
If all that happened and I'm Jerry, I would have to think "I'm pretty sure he learned a hard lesson and probably won't do it again, also pretty sure he sign for cheap and anchor our DL" If teams and the NFL gave others second and third chances....Little, Stallworth, Vick, etc....
Anyway, just tossing the hypothetical out there for discussion.....

[Shinywalrus]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

and you are ignoring the FACT that a primary reason we got Brent is other teams worried about his drinking in college. Guess what happened to him?

Lee and Carter were injured in college and have been injured in the Pros. Once again taking a risk and its so far not looking good.

Now if you pass on players injured in college and known for drinking, you could have 3 slots that were not empty when needed.

Every. Team. In. The. NFL. Does. This.

If you think otherwise, you just don't pay attention to other teams.

[LatinMind]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Jesse Williams or John Jenkins...come on down. You're the first round pick of the Dallas Cowboys.

Doubt it. With the way the defense is set up. Lissemore is still gonna get his snaps. Dallas will pick a DE in the 1st round before a NT.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by ghst187

kind of a crazy question, if Brent ends up getting off of all the charges save DUI, any chance he comes back with a few game suspension? And if so, would the organization have him back?
If all that happened and I'm Jerry, I would have to think "I'm pretty sure he learned a hard lesson and probably won't do it again, also pretty sure he sign for cheap and anchor our DL" If teams and the NFL gave others second and third chances....Little, Stallworth, Vick, etc....
Anyway, just tossing the hypothetical out there for discussion.....

If he plays again, it would be much better for the team and for Josh Brent if he played for another team.

The Dallas and National fans/media would be relentless if he plays for the Cowboys again; however, the Bengals or Raiders fans/media would welcome him with open arms.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by LatinMind

Doubt it. With the way the defense is set up. Lissemore is still gonna get his snaps. Dallas will pick a DE in the 1st round before a NT.

I agree. I don't get the obsession with drafting an NT in the 1st.

You can get another player equal to Josh Brent as a mid-level Free Agent or later in the draft.

It's highly doubtful that you can get a stud pass-rushing DLineman later in the draft or for a reasonable cost in Free Agency.

The Cowboys only play at true 3-4 with an NT about half of the time and sometime less. Also, they often have a rotation at NT.

Why put such premium resources into a position that is only on the field for half of the defensive snaps or less?