3-4, 4-3, who the heck cares?

[Bluestang]

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/...ator#137414017

I think a lot of us really tend to over-analyze the 3-4/4-3 thing, whereas the reality is that while teams may tend to run one or another as their base, most teams today run some combination or hybrid based on the situation.
Ryan ran a lot of 4-3 fronts this year, and what he emphasized in player evaluation was versatility, so in terms of the front-7, I don’t think it is as much of a huge transition as some may make it out to be. We need to draft some players on the dline regardless of which front would be our base, and the players we have (Ware, Ratt maybe, Hatcher, Lissy, Crawford) are all versatile enough to play either front—as they have been doing already.
[View Full Quote]As for the secondary, I think the same thing applies to the man vs. zone as applies to the 4-3 vs 3-4. Teams use a combination of coverages, and will mix up some man and some zone, and even on one play may play a combination of both. Tampa-2 is no different. It is a base defense that has a lot of variety available based on the situation. As the Bucs Nation site says, “One of the great things about the Tampa 2 is that there is so many coverage switches, blitzes, stunts, etc that you can run out of it without compromising your defense.”
There seems to be a misconception that the Tampa-2 is a pure zone-based scheme which is interpreted as playing “off” coverage, and thus our CBs are ill-suited to it being adept at press technique. But the reality is that Tampa-2 asks the CBs to jam receivers at the line, which should actually play well to Carr’s and Mo’s skills.
As far as LBs, I think we are very well suited for this transition, at least at two positions. Tampa-2 emphasizes speed at the MLB (Mike), to drop and cover the deep middle. Carter seems perfectly suited for this role, as a hard tackling run stopper who also has exceptional speed (remember him chasing down Julio Jones?). While the weak-side (Will) LB has to be a very good tackler as the run defense is designed to funnel the play to the him. Hello Sean Lee. As for the strong-side Sam LB, seems like Albright and Wilber are both possibilities there.
It seems to me that a lot of the negative reactions to this possible hiring are based on kind of generalized stereotypes about a cover-2 or Tampa-2 without really delving into the specifics of the defense and how our personnel really might fit into it. The more I think about it, the more I am at the very least open and even excited about the possibilities of what a Monte Kiffen defense might mean for our Boys.

This is something I've said a few times in various threads in regards to the front and I quoted someone else from a different site that has a similar thought about fronts that I do.

Dallas rushed 4 men or fewer 76% of the time under Ryan. (4 = 60%, 3 = 16%) My own input to this is that the NFL's evolvement to a passing league also means that sub-packages like the Nickel and Dime have made an increasing presence in gameplans all over. The idea has always been from an offensive perspective to attack your weakest link and putting multiple WR sets gives the offense opportunities to find that weak link.

Dating back to Parcell's switch to the 3-4, what did his Nickel/Dime sets look like? Wade's? Ryan's? No one runs a base defense when offenses roll with multiple WR sets. Most Nickel/Dime sets are 4 or 3 men lines where they use their best pass rushers.

The sentence "We need to draft some players on the dline regardless of which front would be our base" is the real issue at hand. Only two DL were relatively healthy for all 16 games - Jason Hatcher and Tyrone Crawford. Spencer, Ware, Lissemore, Spears, and Coleman all missed time due to injuries. (Excluding Brent who had a non-football related incident)

If the DC that was hired was sticking with a 3-4 the argument would still be that we need DL to upgrade from Coleman/Spears, and replacement/depth behind Ratliff and Spencer.

Either front you run, you still need to fill holes on the DL.

[Deep_Freeze]

What this eventually comes down to is Coleman/Spears on the field or Albright/Wilber. If we keep Spencer, those positions will probably be the only ones that change cause the front 4 would likely consist of Spencer, TRat, Hatch, and Ware. If Spencer is gone, it gets more interesting cause we don't have a replacement for him in either the 3-4 or the 4-3.

All of it is a good misdirection by JJ to get us thinking there is change coming, even when really there isn't as much as you would think. Our offseason still boils down to if we resign Spencer, cause if we let him walk you should ready yourself for a 1st round DE.

Jerry has shown from Zellner, Pittman, and Ekuban to Ware and Spencer that he has a dedication to pass rushers, good or bad. He showed this dedication to premium positions recently by drafting Tyron and Mo so high. If Spencer is gone, I see this dedication continuing on building at premium positions and another DE taken with the 1st rounder as it should be really.

I have to agree with Blue in that really it won't be as different as we think, although how he will treat the secondary will be interesting cause the safeties aren't ready for this change so upgrades will be needed there.

[cowboyz]

I still want a space eating nt. Ratliff seems more of a warren Sapp 3 technique. Not someone that's going to take up two blockers.

I'd rather have Crawford at de with a real nt.

then draft a pass rushing de later in the draft a tweener like Robinson of the vikings

sticking with Crawford Ratliff Hatcher and ware doesnt change our line that's the same setup in the 34.

I have no idea how spears its in.

[Deep_Freeze]

Originally Posted by cowboyz

I still want a space eating nt. Ratliff seems more of a warren Sapp 3 technique. Not someone that's going to take up two blockers.

I'd rather have Crawford at de with a real nt.

then draft a pass rushing de later in the draft a tweener like Robinson of the vikings

sticking with Crawford Ratliff Hatcher and ware doesnt change our line that's the same setup in the 34.

I have no idea how spears its in.

TRat would be a short term answer just cause we have too many holes to fill, and can't do it all in one offseason. TRat would still need another DT to rotate with til we get a long term solution as we can't do everything this offseason anymore.

Crawford's name is being thrown around alot right now, cause really we don't know what he is yet. I have always seen him as a replacement for Hatch after next season when we have to let Hatch walk or a 5 tech. Now if he shows the ability and talent to be an edge rusher from the 4-3 DE position, it would be great, but most of this season he really looked better backing up Hatch. Sure he did it in college, but this is the NFL, its just a different game.

I just don't see the body lean on a speed rush of an elite pass rusher coming from Crawford (if you want to know what I'm talking about, watch Ware come around the OT at a 45 degree angle full speed), better fit for the inside, but again you never know how he can develop. Also, right now he has bulked up to almost 300 pounds, Crawford would definitely have to get his weight back down to play DE.

We really have no true replacement for Spencer, and that didn't change with a 4-3....matter of fact it made the situation worse.

[AMERICAS_FAN]

The 3-4 is crap unless you have 3 solid pass rushers. Back in the pre cap days you could collect those and stash them on your roster. In the cap world yo're sure to lose them too free agency because the cap makes then unaffordable.

In Dallas' case teams figured out that they can neutralize Demarcus Ware as a pass rusher by sending him into coverage based on their play call. Basically they knew when he was coming or not - and DICTATE that to us, rather than us to them.

Did we have 2 other solid rushers? No, who does? So they could double whoever else they chose - again more dictating - and control the whole play.

Sorry, but unless you have studs at every position in the 3-4 you can't control the line of scrimmage. In the 4-3 you can because you balance who your run stuffers and pass rushers (2, not 3) are, and they can better control the line because they're lined up on it.

[cowboysooner]

Originally Posted by Deep_Freeze

TRat would be a short term answer just cause we have too many holes to fill, and can't do it all in one offseason. TRat would still need another DT to rotate with til we get a long term solution as we can't do everything this offseason anymore.

Crawford's name is being thrown around alot right now, cause really we don't know what he is yet. I have always seen him as a replacement for Hatch after next season when we have to let Hatch walk or a 5 tech. Now if he shows the ability and talent to be an edge rusher from the 4-3 DE position, it would be great, but most of this season he really looked better backing up Hatch. Sure he did it in college, but this is the NFL, its just a different game.

[View Full Quote]I just don't see the body lean on a speed rush of an elite pass rusher coming from Crawford (if you want to know what I'm talking about, watch Ware come around the OT at a 45 degree angle full speed), better fit for the inside, but again you never know how he can develop. Also, right now he has bulked up to almost 300 pounds, Crawford would definitely have to get his weight back down to play DE.

We really have no true replacement for Spencer, and that didn't change with a 4-3....matter of fact it made the situation worse.

This is a great post. The origional poster is correct and so is this. If we let spencer walk we just let one of the best 5 players on the team go. He is a good rusher and we have literally nothing behind he and ware.

It is alot easier to find a 240 pound guy to rush than a 280 pound guy that can do it. The disturbing thing is trying like crazy to get some rush opposite ware only to let it walk out the door when we get it.

[Deep_Freeze]

Originally Posted by cowboysooner

This is a great post. The origional poster is correct and so is this. If we let spencer walk we just let one of the best 5 players on the team go. He is a good rusher and we have literally nothing behind he and ware.

It is alot easier to find a 240 pound guy to rush than a 280 pound guy that can do it. The disturbing thing is trying like crazy to get some rush opposite ware only to let it walk out the door when we get it.

Yeah, main problem with Spencer is his production suddenly spiked towards the end of his career basically at a time he had to get paid. But you are right, its so hard to find pass rushers that letting one walk out the door has to be difficult.

Its not like a draft pick can automatically replace him, we could end up with a bust (something that is ignored right now). Even if Spencer did it just to get paid, his play could still be well above a bust and at this point in Ware's career we can't afford to be busting on players beside him.

[gambit187]

Also whats the big deal about Ware putting his hand in the ground....cant he stand like Dumervill

[CowboysYanksLakers]

Dallas Cowboys have won championships in a 4-3 scheme so I'm all for going back to our tradition!