Read Option

[CowboyChris]

the thread that wont die.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I should add this

Bud Foster at Virginia Tech quickly found a way to "beat" the Rich Rod spread being run at WVU.

WVU had success against VT in 2003, but then struggled against the VT D in 2004 and 2005 (the last times the team played)

Part of it was talent, the VT defense got much better at the LB spots in 2004 and 2005. And that is the key to me, having superior linebacker play.

In the end superior athletes will win out, which is why GT and its triple option always struggles against UGA and other SEC teams, the caliber of athletes are better.

In the NFL you do NOT have that type of discrepancy in talent, and if you do it is rare. A team like the 49ers with its front 7 might be it right now, Justin Smith can dominate the LOS.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan

Not true

Rich Rodriguez at Clemson was the primary inventor of the 21st century "read option" offense which he then took to WVU and had success with Pat White.

http://smartfootball.com/run-game/th...adruple-option

Chris Ault at Neveda invented the "pistol" formation which started in 2005

http://www.sbnation.com/longform/201...l-redskins-rg3

OMG, really?


Nothing in football is new. Nothing. You can rename it or call it something else or do whatever you want but I guarantee you, it's not new.

The only thing new in football is the improvement in the actual athlete or the design of the equipment.

Who invented the Shotgun?

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by CowboyChris

the thread that wont die.

Don't worry Chris, once these QBs start dropping like flies, this thread, along with that offense will die plenty fast.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

OMG, really?


Nothing in football is new. Nothing. You can rename it or call it something else or do whatever you want but I guarantee you, it's not new.

The only thing new in football is the improvement in the actual athlete or the design of the equipment.

Who invented the Shotgun?

The shotgun was used first by the Cowboys in the 70s

"Its a gimmick!" they said

"Defenses will figure it out, you are always passing!" they claimed

The shotgun has stuck around since then. As will the read option.

Now the elements of the 21st century read option (notice my designation of 21st century) is based on the old school veer offenses from before the 80s, with the modern touch of the inflection point being behind the LOS, as opposed to running along the LOS like tradition option offenses do.

Rich Rod, Urban Meyer, Chris Kelly, Paul Johnson are the main practitioners of the 21st century read option.

Chris Ault added the "pistol" in 2005.

The Redskins essentially married the pistol, to the ZBS that Shanahan had run for 20 years, along with the read option elements from Baylor.

I look forward to what will be next.

[Chocolate Lab]

Yeah, I'm with ABQ on this. You can dress it up and make little changes, but there's not really anything new under the sun. The wildcat is the single wing. The spread is the veer run from the shotgun. And so on.

The real difference is that passing has become so much more prevalent (a lot due to rules changes) that kids are learning to pass and catch much better at a younger age. In the past these wishbone or veer option QBs who couldn't throw at all now learn great mechanics when they're 10 years old. So now it's not just a running option offense, but one with a passing threat as well.

[SkinsHokieFan]

From the smart football article

There was, however, one more argument against these ideas ever taking hold in the NFL; Griffin was injured and didn’t finish the Baltimore game referenced above (though his injury came on a scramble on a pass play, not a zone read). Critics argue that these attacks create an increased risk of injury to quarterbacks. That is a real concern, and if anything can short circuit these changes to the NFL game, it is this.

[View Full Quote]I don’t have a firm rebuttal, and to my knowledge there have been no comprehensive studies done at any level of football that measures the risk to quarterbacks in the concepts, so we’re left with anecdotes to judge by. Yet even if it is true – no, especially if it is true – the issue is not really about these spread concepts at all. All quarterbacks – and all NFL players, really – are constantly at risk of gruesome injury. Pocket passers like Carson Palmer, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have missed entire seasons because of injuries sustained while standing in the pocket, and quarterbacks are constantly hit while or just after releasing the ball, a far more vulnerable position than being hit while sliding following a 5-yard gain behind a lead blocker. If the argument is that the scheme is too dangerous to risk injury to Robert Griffin III, then the real argument isn’t to abolish these offenses, it’s to abolish football. That’s another discussion, but if that’s the actual concern then we have much bigger problems than the Pistol Zone Bluff.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

Yeah, I'm with ABQ on this. You can dress it up and make little changes, but there's not really anything new under the sun. The wildcat is the single wing. The spread is the veer run from the shotgun. And so on.

The real difference is that passing has become so much more prevalent (a lot due to rules changes) that kids are learning to pass and catch much better at a younger age. In the past these wishbone or veer option QBs who couldn't throw at all now learn great mechanics when they're 10 years old. So now it's not just a running option offense, but one with a passing threat as well.

Agree,which is what makes this so dangerous.

RG3 wouldn't be nearly as effective if he couldn't do what he did on Thanksgiving and down in New Orleans.

Without the passing component this offense wouldn't work.

[CowboyChris]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Don't worry Chris, once these QBs start dropping like flies, this thread, along with that offense will die plenty fast.

its really these Skin fans who keep it going, lord knows if they didnt have a read option QB, they too would think its a gimmick that will soon die.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Originally Posted by CowboyChris

its really these Skin fans who keep it going, lord knows if they didnt have a read option QB, they too would think its a gimmick that will soon die.

I have read smart football for years. I became enamored with the concepts seeing Cam run it last year. I actually fly to Oregon games to see the Chip Kelly offense then watch my own college play (Virginia Tech)

Seeing it expand this year has been exciting. I am looking forward to whats next.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan

The shotgun was used first by the Cowboys in the 70s

"Its a gimmick!" they said

"Defenses will figure it out, you are always passing!" they claimed

The shotgun has stuck around since then. As will the read option.

Now the elements of the 21st century read option (notice my designation of 21st century) is based on the old school veer offenses from before the 80s, with the modern touch of the inflection point being behind the LOS, as opposed to running along the LOS like tradition option offenses do.

Rich Rod, Urban Meyer, Chris Kelly, Paul Johnson are the main practitioners of the 21st century read option.

Chris Ault added the "pistol" in 2005.

The Redskins essentially married the pistol, to the ZBS that Shanahan had run for 20 years, along with the read option elements from Baylor.

I look forward to what will be next.

And what was Roger Staubach when he first came out of the Navy? Was he considered a traditional drop back passer or was he running QB?

And Chris Ault was not the inventor of this offense, nor was Rodriguez, nor was Urban Meyer or Chris Kelly or Paul Johnson. The run and shoot was around long before the Pistol, which was the same type of principle and there was also the Red Gun which was basically the same thing but used more zone flood principles and before that. The Zone Read, the Oklahoma Offense, which is basically a Split T which came from a Don Faurat.

This can go back a long way. You can even make a case that the principles of this offense came from Paul Brown and his old Ohio Offense, which would be hard to argue against.

It's not new. It's just recycled.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by CowboyChris

its really these Skin fans who keep it going, lord knows if they didnt have a read option QB, they too would think its a gimmick that will soon die.

If the game did not protect the QB so much, this offense would never be run in the NFL. RG3 is a great QB but I do not believe he will last long in the NFL if they continue to run this offense.

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan

I have read smart football for years. I became enamored with the concepts seeing Cam run it last year. I actually fly to Oregon games to see the Chip Kelly offense then watch my own college play (Virginia Tech)

Seeing it expand this year has been exciting. I am looking forward to whats next.

hey Hokie

Just some uselss trivia, but my parents retired in Fancy Gap, Va and they know Beamer. They say he's a good guy.

[Plankton]

Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan

The shotgun was used first by the Cowboys in the 70s

Actually, it was created by Red Hickey with the 49ers in the 1950s.

Hickey came to the Cowboys as an assistant in the 1970s, and he and Landry implemented it in the 1975 season.

[dwmyers]

Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan

The shotgun was used first by the Cowboys in the 70s

Red Hickey, 49ers, late 1950s, is generally credited with the shotgun formation in the pros. Before that TCU meistro Leo "Dutch" Meyer used the double wing formation and was known for it. Double wings are ancient.

From Dana Bible's book on football, copyrighted 1947, I have this screen shot..




Which of course completely misses the point. I don't think ABQCOWBOY has the skill to distinguish between a QB draw out of a shotgun formation and a zone read play, when he has no video to refer to, and is relying on 12 year old memories.

It's almost 100% certain the zone read was not part of Virgina Tech's nor the Atlanta Falcons offense. But ABQCOWBOY has Vick running the spread option in college and in the pros.

Around 2000-2001, who was paying attention to it? Urban Meyer, Rich Rodriguez, Scott Lineham? That's about it.

So the first notable use of spread option concepts would have been with Tommy Bowden, who had Rich as his offensive coordinator at Tulane and Clemson. And Rich really didn't have a breakout season as a HC until 2002.

Urban Meyer wasn't a head coach until 2001, and really didn't attract too much attention until he became head coach at Utah (2003-2004) and started winning there.

Michael Vick was drafted in 2001. Again, I ask, where did he learn the modern spread offense?