Kiper's all rookie team...

[NIBGoldenchild]

Originally Posted by DFWJC

There are many people on this forum that were following ( and becoming fans of) RG3 long before most Redskin fans had ever even heard his name.

I certainly believe that was so, especially since he's a Texas boy. I didn't hear about him until 2010, and wasn't impressed enough to want my team to draft him until late in 2011.

I am not saying everyone here is biased against him, not at all. I've seen quite a few with an open opinion of his rookie year and have shouted down the know-nothings that don't even understand how his offense works. In fact, I've found more knowledgeable and honest members here than at the Giants and Eagles boards I frequent. Which is why I post here so often.

[Doomsday]

This is the problem stats, they dont tell the whole story. I dont think he will win it, but Luck deserves to be the MVP. Take RBIII or Wilson off their teams and they could still win 8 games with those running games and defenses, the Colts would be lucky to win 4 games without Luck.

[RoyTheHammer]

Jenkins and Zietler.

Darnit!

[visionary]

Originally Posted by RoyTheHammer

Jenkins and Zietler.

Darnit!

but this is all after the fact!!!
no one could have predicted that!!!

oh wait...

many people did

[koolaid]

I think there are a number of reasons RW is more deserving than RG3 or Luck. I don't think anyone can dispute that if you include playoffs RW had the best season without much debate. People love to talk about how much help Russell had in Seattle, but IMO he had the least talented overall receiving core. Sidney Rice hasn't been impressive since moving to Seattle and Golden Tate doesn't scare anyone. The guy improved every single game and SHREDDED the niners at the end of the season, which was the most impressive win by a rookie IMO. In Atlanta he carried the team on his back to a near upset without much help at all from the running game.

Luck won a lot of games, which is nice, but look at the teams he beat. Other than winning against GB and the Texans at home (and the texans were not playing good ball at that point) none of his victories are very impressive.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelo...74/andrew-luck
He threw for a lot of yards but he also threw the ball 627 times yet threw fewer TDs and more Ints than Wilson. You are not going to convince me that Russell couldn't have put up similar numbers if he was allowed to chuck it around like that. (RW threw the ball 393 times). Like I said earlier Luck has the most potential of all these guys but you don't award people based off potential. Not to mention who really got pumped up to play the colts this season? They got to play the underdog role all year with low expectations for the team.

Interestingly, RG3 and RW both threw the ball 393 times in the regular season. Both had running games with similar levels of success. RW had 6 more Tds and one more Int. RG3 threw for 200 more yards. Russell Wilson won 1 more game than RG3 in the regular season. In my opinion the redskins offense seemed less open than seattle's, especially as the season progressed and RW was let of his leash in Seattle. It seemed many of RG3's successful throws were quick passes with a lot of YAC. I think by the time the playoffs rolled around RW grew a lot more that RG3. Just watch the Seatle-Was playoff game, RG3 was staring down his primary target practically every time he threw.

I suspect RG3 will win the award, but I think RW is most deserving.

[SkinsFan28]

Originally Posted by Doomsday

This is the problem stats, they dont tell the whole story. I dont think he will win it, but Luck deserves to be the MVP. Take RBIII or Wilson off their teams and they could still win 8 games with those running games and defenses, the Colts would be lucky to win 4 games without Luck.

If you want to leave stats out of it, let's look at what RGIII did for the Redskins, and the whole DC area (minus the few Cowboys fans). I think everyone, Skins and Cowboys fans alike, will agree that the Skins had fallen to Cleveland like proportions of epic failure. The Skins haven't had a qb since, well, a long time. When was the last time the Colts franchise was in the playoffs? Seattle? How many times for each.

I also wonder, don't know, who in the Colts played the bigger role in the team's inspiration for Pagano's health, I tend to give that credit to Arians, because Luck doesn't inspire me whenever I hear him, and my only in person experience with him was at Fedex in the preseason. Griffin sat and signed autographs for ever and a day, Luck when he went in before and after the game completely ignored the Colts fans that were cheering to him, even some other Colts stopped and signed autographs for their fans.

I really would understand if RW wins it, I don't think he had the impact (non-stats) as RGIII, but he was a classy leader, who played the underdog role to perfection.

[SkinsFan28]

Originally Posted by koolaid

I think there are a number of reasons RW is more deserving than RG3 or Luck. I don't think anyone can dispute that if you include playoffs RW had the best season without much debate. People love to talk about how much help Russell had in Seattle, but IMO he had the least talented overall receiving core. Sidney Rice hasn't been impressive since moving to Seattle and Golden Tate doesn't scare anyone. The guy improved every single game and SHREDDED the niners at the end of the season, which was the most impressive win by a rookie IMO. In Atlanta he carried the team on his back to a near upset without much help at all from the running game.

Luck won a lot of games, which is nice, but look at the teams he beat. Other than winning against GB and the Texans at home (and the texans were not playing good ball at that point) none of his victories are very impressive.
[View Full Quote]http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelo...74/andrew-luck
He threw for a lot of yards but he also threw the ball 627 times yet threw fewer TDs and more Ints than Wilson. You are not going to convince me that Russell couldn't have put up similar numbers if he was allowed to chuck it around like that. (RW threw the ball 393 times). Like I said earlier Luck has the most potential of all these guys but you don't award people based off potential. Not to mention who really got pumped up to play the colts this season? They got to play the underdog role all year with low expectations for the team.

Interestingly, RG3 and RW both threw the ball 393 times in the regular season. Both had running games with similar levels of success. RW had 6 more Tds and one more Int. RG3 threw for 200 more yards. Russell Wilson won 1 more game than RG3 in the regular season. In my opinion the redskins offense seemed less open than seattle's, especially as the season progressed and RW was let of his leash in Seattle. It seemed many of RG3's successful throws were quick passes with a lot of YAC. I think by the time the playoffs rolled around RW grew a lot more that RG3. Just watch the Seatle-Was playoff game, RG3 was staring down his primary target practically every time he threw.

I suspect RG3 will win the award, but I think RW is most deserving.

I think that's a fair assessment. I don't know about RGIII in the playoff game, I would have to see it again, but clearly after he tweaked his knee, his performance went to 0.

[joseephuss]

Originally Posted by visionary

but this is all after the fact!!!
no one could have predicted that!!!

oh wait...

many people did

None of that means that Claiborne is a bad player or a bad pick.

[NIBGoldenchild]

Originally Posted by koolaid

I think there are a number of reasons RW is more deserving than RG3 or Luck. I don't think anyone can dispute that if you include playoffs RW had the best season without much debate. People love to talk about how much help Russell had in Seattle, but IMO he had the least talented overall receiving core. Sidney Rice hasn't been impressive since moving to Seattle and Golden Tate doesn't scare anyone. The guy improved every single game and SHREDDED the niners at the end of the season, which was the most impressive win by a rookie IMO. In Atlanta he carried the team on his back to a near upset without much help at all from the running game.

Luck won a lot of games, which is nice, but look at the teams he beat. Other than winning against GB and the Texans at home (and the texans were not playing good ball at that point) none of his victories are very impressive.
[View Full Quote]http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelo...74/andrew-luck
He threw for a lot of yards but he also threw the ball 627 times yet threw fewer TDs and more Ints than Wilson. You are not going to convince me that Russell couldn't have put up similar numbers if he was allowed to chuck it around like that. (RW threw the ball 393 times). Like I said earlier Luck has the most potential of all these guys but you don't award people based off potential. Not to mention who really got pumped up to play the colts this season? They got to play the underdog role all year with low expectations for the team.

Interestingly, RG3 and RW both threw the ball 393 times in the regular season. Both had running games with similar levels of success. RW had 6 more Tds and one more Int. RG3 threw for 200 more yards. Russell Wilson won 1 more game than RG3 in the regular season. In my opinion the redskins offense seemed less open than seattle's, especially as the season progressed and RW was let of his leash in Seattle. It seemed many of RG3's successful throws were quick passes with a lot of YAC. I think by the time the playoffs rolled around RW grew a lot more that RG3. Just watch the Seatle-Was playoff game, RG3 was staring down his primary target practically every time he threw.

I suspect RG3 will win the award, but I think RW is most deserving.

I don't have a problem with you choosing Wilson. But in comparing Wilson to Griffin later in the season, you have to remember Griffin's injury hindered him in those last three games. Griffin did NOT stare at his target every time he threw, but he did do so much more in that game than I'd seen him do all season.

[KB1122]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

And there were people on this forum who thought he was a vastly overrated pro prospect long before the Redskins made the trade up to get him.

And there are still people on this forum that won't let results get in the way of their preconceptions.

RGIII led the league in yards per pass attempt and yards per rush. He has the highest passer rating among rookies in ... ever? Wilson gave it a good run at the end, but ROTY is an easy choice.

[visionary]

Originally Posted by joseephuss

None of that means that Claiborne is a bad player or a bad pick.

it does mean he was not worth using your 1st AND 2nd round picks on when the team had dire needs on OL and DL

[joseephuss]

Originally Posted by visionary

it does mean he was not worth using your 1st AND 2nd round picks on when the team had dire needs on OL and DL

No, it doesn't. That existed already even before the draft. Claiborne not making Kiper's all-rookie team has no bearing on that.

[visionary]

Originally Posted by joseephuss

No, it doesn't. That existed already even before the draft. Claiborne not making Kiper's all-rookie team has no bearing on that.

of course not

the fact that there were at least 2 CBs, taken much later, that played better than the one we traded up for in the top of the first round has no bearing on anything, esp on our front office, talent evaluation, draft valuations, no bearing on anything

[BrAinPaiNt]

Funny thing is I don't know that RGIII is even the best rookie on his own team.

I think you could make a legit and strong argument that Alfred Morris could be in the conversation of being the OROY.

[joseephuss]

Originally Posted by visionary

of course not

the fact that there were at least 2 CBs, taken much later, that played better than the one we traded up for in the top of the first round has no bearing on anything, esp on our front office, talent evaluation, draft valuations, no bearing on anything

That isn't what I said. You are taking a short sighted view on this. Those guys played better this year. Careers are much more than one single season. Were you one of the guys who thought Merriman was better than Ware after one single season? And Dallas top priorities were offensive line last draft. That existed no matter if Claiborne made Kiper's list or not. If Claiborne was the rookie of the year, it still didn't solve the Cowboys offensive line holes. Kiper's list has no bearing on that.