Super Bowl Teams & The NFL Quarterback Fallacy

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by Wahoo Cowboy

Cowboys RBs combined for 100 yards on 22 carries against Washington, good for over 4.5 yards a carry. That's good enough to win a game in the NFL.

Look, I'm a big Romo fan. His exceptional play during the second half of the season is what put Dallas in a position to have that game matter. But he was dreadful against Washington, and it wasn't the running game's fault.

no. it was the teams fault. i hated that game out of romo as much as anyone, but w/o him, that game would be **** on a nun meaningless.

[phildominator]

So, if Romo finally wins a Super Bowl, it still doesn't solidify that Romo's a great QB?

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by phildominator

So, if Romo finally wins a Super Bowl, it still doesn't solidify that Romo's a great QB?

winning fixes a lot of things, to be honest. patience however, gets lost along the way. bad decision after bad decision has people thinking the next one will be bad also.

hence the constant craving here. (anyone get that ref?)

i get it. but i don't harp on it.

i'd love to see romo get a ring much like dirk. they did it in spite of the situation.

i'd love to talk football, moves, changes, potential, but you have to wade through a ton of people "venting" and then claiming it's their right. maybe it is.

maybe it is.

or maybe it's just stupidity in motion.

[HoustonFrog]

This is a funny argument since Brady took over from an alleged stud, led them to a SB and then became a great himself. The fact that he has his team in the hunt year after year is a testament to great QB play. So sho says Kaep isn't the next Brady. Also, finding outliers and comparing them so it makes us look better is just a ridiculous ploy.

In the history of the NFL SBs are mostly won with teams with top QBs. Plain and simple. Using the Ravens from years ago while ignoring Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana, Young, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Warner, Roethlisberger, etc is a farce. History is on the side of the guys with a QB. If its all team then there wouldn't be a Hall of Fame. Again, I am a Romo fan but when we pull these arguments out along with ones about fellow chokers it just looks desperate.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by CowboyRoy

This argument is real simple actually. Brady, Brees, Eli, Manning, Rogers are all at home right now. And two of those didnt even make the playoffs. So if its all about QB play, then why are the starting QB's in the superbowl Joe Flacco and a 2nd year running QB in Kapernaek that has only played like 9 games in his NFL career?

Guess who else is at home, all the other QBs in the NFL spanning the spectrum of quality from great to horrid. What's your point? Nobody is arguing that the QB position is the sole determinant of outcomes.

Its REAL simple. This is a team game and its NOT all about the QB. And why did Flacco make the SB finally after 8 years? Because his defense finally shut down Brady in the big game. 13 points. LOL

It doesnt get any more clear than that. Game over!!!

Flacco would have made the SB last year if his WR hadn't dropped a TD. Flacco did well enough last year so you aren't proving your point that the defense carried him to the SB.

It's a team game but if you can't acknowledge the fact that a better QB gives you a better chance, you're fooling yourself.

There's a reason why Tom Brady is in the playoffs every year in spite of the numerous roster changes that have gone on around him since his time began.

There's a reason Peyton Manning is in the playoffs every year no matter who he has around him or on what team.

QB is the most important position and to say that the league isn't a QB driven league is just ignorant.

All other things being being equal, which team prevails the vast majority of the time.......team with a bad QB or the team with a good QB?

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

This is a funny argument since Brady took over from an alleged stud, led them to a SB and then became a great himself. The fact that he has his team in the hunt year after year is a testament to great QB play. So sho says Kaep isn't the next Brady. Also, finding outliers and comparing them so it makes us look better is just a ridiculous ploy.

In the history of the NFL SBs are mostly won with teams with top QBs. Plain and simple. Using the Ravens from years ago while ignoring Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana, Young, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Warner, Roethlisberger, etc is a farce. History is on the side of the guys with a QB. If its all team then there wouldn't be a Hall of Fame. Again, I am a Romo fan but when we pull these arguments out along with ones about fellow chokers it just looks desperate.

Brees
Brady
Manning
Rogers
Roethlisberger

At least one of these 5 guys has been in the Superbowl for like the last 10 years, there's a couple times where 2 of them have been there.

How anyone can look at the frequency at which strong QBs get to the SB in comparison to the weak ones and draw a conclusion that QB play isn't one of the largest determinants of team success is a mystery.

[Hoofbite]

One last bit of discussion.

The idea that Flacco and Kaepernick prove that QB isn't the most important position is based on:

1. The perception that they aren't that good. This is entirely subjective on the OPs part.

2. On the assumption that they haven't played that good in the playoffs. This is entirely false.


Flacco has a QBR over 100 in each of the games thus far.

He has 8 TDs and 0 INTs.

Kaepernick has QBRs of 91 and 127 in his games. 3 TDs, 1 INT but also 200 yards rushing and 2 TDs.


Regardless of how these guys are viewed, they're playing at a level that is at or above the level of the widely accepted "great" QBs.

If anything, Kaepernick and Flacco prove to the same extent as those other guys do that QB play is ridiculously important.

Even if these games are above what we would expect from these players (I'm not saying they are or aren't), it still stands as testament to the value of having good QB play.

You can look at Eli Manning's numbers too from his Superbowl run last year. Played at ridiculous level.

In that case, what gives you the best chance of good QB play? We're going to expect poor QBs to constantly give good production? Doubt it.

[KB1122]

Aikman
Aikman
Young
Aikman
Favre
Elway
Elway
Warner
Dilfer
Brady
Johnson
Brady
Brady
Roethlisberger
Manning
Manning
Roethlisberger
Brees
Rodgers
Manning

[AdamJT13]

People seem to forget that what happens on the field is what matters, not what someone's reputation is, what they've done before, how much money they make or how they were acquired.

Flacco outplayed Luck, Manning and Brady; and Kaepernick outplayed Rodgers and Ryan. End of story.

[dupree89]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

This is a funny argument since Brady took over from an alleged stud, led them to a SB and then became a great himself. The fact that he has his team in the hunt year after year is a testament to great QB play. So sho says Kaep isn't the next Brady. Also, finding outliers and comparing them so it makes us look better is just a ridiculous ploy.

In the history of the NFL SBs are mostly won with teams with top QBs. Plain and simple. Using the Ravens from years ago while ignoring Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana, Young, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Warner, Roethlisberger, etc is a farce. History is on the side of the guys with a QB. If its all team then there wouldn't be a Hall of Fame. Again, I am a Romo fan but when we pull these arguments out along with ones about fellow chokers it just looks desperate.

BINGO!!!

[nickjamesw43]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

This is a funny argument since Brady took over from an alleged stud, led them to a SB and then became a great himself. The fact that he has his team in the hunt year after year is a testament to great QB play. So sho says Kaep isn't the next Brady. Also, finding outliers and comparing them so it makes us look better is just a ridiculous ploy.

In the history of the NFL SBs are mostly won with teams with top QBs. Plain and simple. Using the Ravens from years ago while ignoring Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana, Young, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Warner, Roethlisberger, etc is a farce. History is on the side of the guys with a QB. If its all team then there wouldn't be a Hall of Fame. Again, I am a Romo fan but when we pull these arguments out along with ones about fellow chokers it just looks desperate.

I think most of those guys had pretty good run games and defenses behind them. You've pretty much made the OP's point.

Fun Fact: The team that scored more rushing TDs is 8-1 this postseason. Teams that scored no rushing TDs are 2-7.

[nickjamesw43]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

One last bit of discussion.

The idea that Flacco and Kaepernick prove that QB isn't the most important position is based on:

Did anybody ever actually say that? Seems like you are torching a strawman to me.

I would argue that in the regular season having a quarterback is huge. In the post season however almost everyone has a good QB. You can't have a lousy defense and a lousy running game and just expect to out quarterback everybody.

Having a good QB is usually a necessary condition for post season success but it is in no way sufficient.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by nickjamesw43

I think most of those guys had pretty good run games and defenses behind them. You've pretty much made the OP's point.

Fun Fact: The team that scored more rushing TDs is 8-1 this postseason. Teams that scored no rushing TDs are 2-7.

Really? So you're going to discount all if those guys because they might have had a great run game or defense? That makes no sense. Did u know that Brady's WRs in his first SBs were Troy Brown, Givens and Branch? RB were Antwain Smith and the other Faulk. Again, look at the list. All time greats and guys on their way. In your world Roger Staubach and a host if others are overrated for their work because they had great teams. How about they elevated their teams? The OP us taking one instance and making a sweeping untrue generalization to prop up our situation.

There is a reason for the Colts being 20 times better this year...Luck over Painter

[ufcrules1]

Originally Posted by AdamJT13

People seem to forget that what happens on the field is what matters, not what someone's reputation is, what they've done before, how much money they make or how they were acquired.

Flacco outplayed Luck, Manning and Brady; and Kaepernick outplayed Rodgers and Ryan. End of story.

And Romo choked against the 30th ranked pass defense and buried his teams chances for the playoffs.

[Doomsday101]

So the 2 best QB's in the NFL Colin Kaepernick and Joe Flacco.

As the op has said and it is something I have been saying for years this game is about team not individual it takes a team to win championships and while QB is important it takes a lot more than 1 man. Some do not get it they act as if this game is played by QB and none of the other players matter.